Rifle Scopes Second Focal plane for hold overs?

CST

CST

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 31, 2002
359
9
Md
#1
I have a NF 3-15 NXS with MLR reticle. at 15x its too much power for rapid fire shooting at multiple targets with hold overs for me...
After talking to NF about calculating the 1\2 magnification for the proper mil conversion....

its 7.5x for me..so my first .5mil hash mark becomes 1 and the 1mil mark becomes 2mils etc....

anyone try shooting like this?...is it accurate\reliable.?

I'm too cheap to buy a first focal plane and at 7.5x the reticle is still nice and large, not shrunken tiny like a FFP scope....
 
#2
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

The only issue is, you have to map it to make sure you correct. 7.5X on the magnification ring may not be 1 mil for the .5 hash mark, so you have to measure it until the reticle lines up then mark the power ring accordingly.

Bitch is, I know a lot of people who do it on paper, then go out by themselves and practice it successfully, however when it's time to perform under someone else's rules like in a competition they fall apart unless they are really switched on.

I see this MOA people all the time, they show with an MOA set up knowing all the math they worked out -- then when I drop the command and the clock starts it never lines up like they want. Same thing with ranging, happens every class.
 
#3
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

I have some experience shooting using the method you have described. I was using a SFP and used a large scaled mil print out @ 100 yards to find my "half power". It was not exactly on the mid range mag ring, so I marked it. It worked fairly well. Much better then using the full mag power. I wouldnt stake an important shot on it but it got the job done when i had to power back to engage movers.

After some pratice I became very comfortable with it, then I got another USO and problem was solved. Just be sure to become comfortable with the new mil values when you are at the half power. It should work pretty decent for you.
 
#4
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

Lowlight is right, I use SFP NXS and have become pretty proficient with the half magnification calculation and usage.

But when the hammer drops and you dial down and shoot 100yd movers under competition atmosphere the little Match monkey has a tendency to screw with your head.

I've even caught myself doing it in other stages. Once the shot is gone and your brain is thinking full value and your scope is on double value you can't get the shot back. When the hammer falls and time is of essence the KISS method will win out every time. That is why I am in the process of converting to FFP at the moment. Take one less chance of error out of the equation.
 
#6
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

If you really want to make half power with SFP scopes work, you have to practice with it a lot. And you have to be on the ball all the time while competing. There are some other little tricks that can be done to manipulate things, but again, it takes practice. Like in a 3.5-15, my NPR1 reticle turns to a mil reticle at about 8.5x (half on the vertical, full on the horizontal). Just math manipulation. Good luck.
 
#7
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you need to holdover for 100 yard movers?</div></div>

You might, depending on the size of the target and its speed.

For example, the lead for a 2 mph moving target anywhere from 100 yards to around 500 yards is about 1.2 mils.

So, if the target at 100 yards is less than 3.6 inches - 1 mil - you better use some lead.
 
#8
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

I tried it for a long time but was never comfortable that I was accurately placing the magnification at the correct spot for sufficient accuracy and had it fall apart in matches a couple time. I gave up and have slowly moved everything to FFP reticles.
 
#9
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

and yet another reason that the fixed 10x is such a good optic. cheaper, lighter and always the right power. this is why i keep a spare bushnell 10x with me at all times never know when you'll need it.

just get a ffp you won't regret it so much easier!!!
 
#10
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

ok...heres a question...what is the minimum power you guys use at Rifles Only for rapid engagment shots and movers? When i used my buddies Premier..I could barely make out the reticle at powers less than about 7x....what about a 3-10x Leupold....just leave it at 10x....?
 
#11
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok...heres a question...what is the minimum power you guys use at Rifles Only for rapid engagment shots and movers? When i used my buddies Premier..I could barely make out the reticle at powers less than about 7x....what about a 3-10x Leupold....just leave it at 10x....?</div></div>

Different people use different powers, I might use 12X, someone else, 10X, in other cases 8X... it just depends. There is no one answer, you're the deciding factor.
 
#12
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

And technique matters.

A shooter competent at picking up the target and roughly lining up the barrel with it using his off-scope eye, and only then looking for it through the scope, will be able to use a higher power on the scope than someone trying to acquire the target through the scope.
 
#13
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

i can actually speak from experience on this one...at a class i attended i was paired up w a guy w a 2ndfp variable. he had all the math, charts,numbers and figures memorized. while i was spottin he turned down his magnification a couple times and threw us off shootin holdovers. since all my scopes at the time were fixed 10 super snipers, it never crossed my mind to check his magnifiaction setting before each shot. we worked through it as the class went on, i checked his mag before each shot, and we added a verbal check to our dialogue. was a PITA however
 
#14
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

This is a pretty common practice. But before you do it, you need to mark 10mils at 100yds and find out EXACTLY what power the reticle is accurate at at the lower power. Might be 7.5 but might be a bit off. Mark that spot.

Conversely a NPR1 reticle can be used at a MLR type reticle by doing the same thing, as RKSimple stated at ~8.5X
 
#16
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

I usually shoot the 100 yard mover at RO on 15x. When I don't, and dial down, it's beacuse I have a 5" shoot-n-c to look at so I can take a lead by eyeballing the distance of the crosshair from the center of the bull. That's what I like about the NF 3.5-15x - I don't care that it's SFP because I'm on 15x all the time, even when shooting 'moving chaos'.
 
#17
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

If you are reasonably sure of the size of your target, using a lead relative to the width of the target is a technique which has been used for as long as people have been shooting a moving target, and long before people had optical sights, much less graduated reticles.

Just because you have a particular tool doesn't mean you have to use it if it isn't the best tool for the job.

Maslow's Hammer: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." -- Abraham Maslow, psychologist
 
#18
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

I probably fall into the "everything looks like a nail" catagory. Tools can make the job more or less difficult, but its ultimately the shooter knowing their equipment and how to use its strengths to make up for any weakness it may have.

I have had pretty good luck with SFP scopes. I can't say that I am not tempted by the FFP koolaid. I am debating whether to stay with what has worked for me or try the FFP,when I purchase my next scope. I don't think it will make me a better shooter, just by switching scopes. It will do somethings better and some things worse.
 
#20
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you practice movers?</div></div>

I push the button on the mover control that Lindy built and then I shoot the moving target.
 
#21
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

Must be nice. I have to tie the targets to the backs of my cats and work the laser pointer at the same time
wink.gif
 
#24
Re: Second Focal plane for hold overs?

Won't lie when I see Low light Team Blaster Members and Lindy posting on a topic I get extremely interested like a pup at dinner time and really like learning from you guys wisdom. Thanks for all the great info
 
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