Seekins SP10 Review. Craddock/Proof Research

#51
bigjake83 said:
I initially had some concerns with my groups opening up under high heat after conducting a 15 round mag dump and then tried to shoot for groups. But after my last several range trips in colder weather and using a heat shield the group expansion I was experiencing was due to mirage. All barrels are going to open up as the heat increases, I'm not seeing the PR barrels act any differently. I personally don't care for the contour Proof uses on their SS 6.5CM barrels, it's too light I'd much rather have the old M110 Profile they first used and still do on the .308 SS barrels.
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so it sounds like you didn't have the similar issue with your Proof CF barrel? POI of my 6.5 cr SS barrel can shift ~1 MOA to the lower right after 3 -5 groups of 5 rd shooting, and the group begins to open up. It's also sensitive to the MB, POI shifts 6MOA without MB, very strange.
I agree the contour of Proof SS barrel is too light. I didn't do my research very carefully and anticipated it to be just like their CF barrel contour, maybe this is why it acts like that? not saying Proof SS is bad (cold bore can still do 1/2 MOA), but so far it is just not what I need. The barrel has the potential, but the light contour maybe the issue here.
I m looking for an AR10 setup that can shoot up to1000 yards with good accuracy after reasonable amount of shooting, and I don't really care about the cost or weight. If their CF barrels are not that temperature sensitive, I m considering getting one.
 
#52
exoto1225 said:
so it sounds like you didn't have the similar issue with your Proof CF barrel? POI of my 6.5 cr SS barrel can shift ~1 MOA to the lower right after 3 -5 groups of 5 rd shooting, and the group begins to open up. It's also sensitive to the MB, POI shifts 6MOA without MB, very strange.
I agree the contour of Proof SS barrel is too light. I didn't do my research very carefully and anticipated it to be just like their CF barrel contour, maybe this is why it acts like that? not saying Proof SS is bad (cold bore can still do 1/2 MOA), but so far it is just not what I need. The barrel has the potential, but the light contour maybe the issue here.
I m looking for an AR10 setup that can shoot up to1000 yards with good accuracy after reasonable amount of shooting, and I don't really care about the cost or weight. If their CF barrels are not that temperature sensitive, I m considering getting one.
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Yes definitely no POI shift with mine as you speak of. Just give Paul and compass Lake a call and tell him I sent you. Let Paul know you want a barrel like the ones I request.

22" Bartlein 1-8 Twist/ 4 groove/ +2 Gas/ M110 contour/ .875 Gas port/ 5/8x24 Threads.


I just finished assembling a SP10 with that exact barrel, I'll post pics in a bit.
 
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#53
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#55
bigjake83 said:
Yes definitely no POI shift with mine as you speak of. Just give Paul and compass Lake a call and tell him I sent you. Let Paul know you want a barrel like the ones I request.

22" Bartlein 1-8 Twist/ 4 groove/ +2 Gas/ M110 contour/ .875 Gas port/ 5/8x24 Threads.


I just finished assembling a SP10 with that exact barrel, I'll post pics in a bit.
Click to expand...
I thought your PROOF CF barrel experience is very positive, why go back with the custom barrels.? is there anything you don't like about PROOF? I still prefer PROOF because they are in stock right now...thanks
 
#57
exoto1225 said:
I thought your PROOF CF barrel experience is very positive, why go back with the custom barrels.? is there anything you don't like about PROOF? I still prefer PROOF because they are in stock right now...thanks
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Yes I'm very happy with the PR-CF barrel, I specifically ordered the Custom CLE Bartlein Barrel to do a direct comparison between the two.

One thing to consider is that the heavier barrel stays planted better than a lighter one which usually always results in a easier shooting platform and as many PRS shooters are discovering heavier is better.
 
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#59
To follow up on my previous comment. After switching to 3 port Hellfire brake, the POI shift issue is gone.
so this Sunday I went to test the load. I tested 3 factory ammo: Berger 130 AR, Hornady Match 140ELDM and FGMM 140 smk. The 22in SS PROOF barrel can occasionally shoot ~0.4 MOA but not consistently, the 5 shot group is normally between 0.75-1MOA for these factory loads. 140 ELDM gave me some promising results (0.4-0.7 ish MOA) so I tested my load with 40.0 to 41.2 gr H4350, 140 ELDM, CCI200, Lapua brass. The best 5 shot group I got is with 40.2 gr H4350, ~2630 fps, <10 SD, 0.75 MOA The rest is just 0.8-1MOA group. disappointing. The bore looks fine, the gas port broke in nicely, no copper fouling at all. The barrel has 170 rd through at this point. The crown and chamber all look fine to me. Not sure why a single-point cut barrel can't make is close to half MOA with nothing looks wrong.
Also, the rifle sometimes would fail to go in full battery, this happens a lot on the last round. I used Full mass JP BCG and heavies spring on JP silent captured roil system.
---

I ordered their carbon fiber barrel of same length. I tend to get good results with first group and the accuracy goes downhill after the barrel becomes warm, so I think the light profile of the SS barrel might be the issue here. From OP's experience, it looks like CF barrel deal with heat better. we will see.
 
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#60
exoto1225 said:
To follow up on my previous comment. After switching to 3 port Hellfire brake, the POI shift issue is gone.
so this Sunday I went to test the load. I tested 3 factory ammo: Berger 130 AR, Hornady Match 140ELDM and FGMM 140 smk. The 22in SS PROOF barrel can occasionally shoot ~0.4 MOA but not consistently, the 5 shot group is normally between 0.75-1MOA for these factory loads. 140 ELDM gave me some promising results (0.4-0.7 ish MOA) so I tested my load with 40.0 to 41.2 gr H4350, 140 ELDM, CCI200, Lapua brass. The best 5 shot group I got is with 40.2 gr H4350, ~2630 fps, <10 SD, 0.75 MOA The rest is just 0.8-1MOA group. disappointing. The bore looks fine, the gas port broke in nicely, no copper fouling at all. The barrel has 170 rd through at this point. The crown and chamber all look fine to me. Not sure why a single-point cut barrel can't make is close to half MOA with nothing looks wrong.
Also, the rifle sometimes would fail to go in full battery, this happens a lot on the last round. I used Full mass JP BCG and heavies spring on JP silent captured roil system.
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I know this may be an obvious concept, but what mags have you tried?

@bigjake83 - very nice work, friend. I’ll be calling you here in a bit.
 
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#62
@bigjake83 tell me I’m not going to have to send this back to ranier. It’s an ultra match. Ive only put a few rounds through it but had a couple of weird fliers. The ammo was way too hot for the rifle so I’m hoping that’s all it was. I’m going to lower the charge and go shoot some more and see how it does.

Have you ever seen a gas hole look like this? At first I thought they somehow chamfered it but it looks kind of chunky like it wasn’t done on purpose. The light on the borescope is so dang bright against the shiny ultra match barrel I had a hard time getting it clear so I moved it around to get some different angles. What do you think?
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#64
Also, I have both Craddock and Proof 6mm Creedmoor barrels, both shoot well and no issues with gas ports. Proof has 350 rounds and Craddock Bartlien has around 800.

I had the option of either to take to finale and chose the Craddock. I shot the rest of my match ammo this weekend without cleaning and every single group was under 1/2 MOA.
 

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#65
lennyo3034 said:
That doesn't look too bad to me. The issue is if its shaving large chunks of copper off the bullet.
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For sure if it shoots well and doesn’t deform the bullet I don’t care what it looks like. I’ve just never see a port look like this and am hoping that’s not where the flyers came from. It very well could have been the ammo it was way too hot in the rifle.

I got the bore really dry and got a better look at it. It actually does look like it was chamfered but since it landed on a groove it made the chamfer oblong/not symmetrical. Looks like the groove will need a few rounds/cleaning to smooth out but that shouldn’t be a problem.
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#67
bigjake83 said:
Ammo is expensive, and those barrels are 100% money back guarantee within 90 days of purchase. I'd send it back.
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Shit it may have already been more than 90 days I didn’t realize they put a time window on it. I installed it a while back and just got time to take it out. If it’s past 90 I’ll take it out again with some non-nuclear ammo and see how it goes. If it’s not good hopefully they’ll swap it out since it looks so sketchy. If it shoots good I’ll let it ride.

Have you ever seen a chamfered gas port? I feel like I’ve heard of them but I’ve never seen one and can’t find any pics of one.
 
#69
@bigjake83

If you had to choose one for an all round DMR would it be a SS Craddock? SS Compass Lake? or a Carbon Fiber Proof?

What were the lead times like?

What mirage mitigation techniques did you use with the Carbon Fiber Proof?

Is the Seekins SP10 a DPMS Pattern? Asking because of barrel compatability terminology.

What buffer are you using with the +2 system?
 
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#70
blbennett1288 said:
@bigjake83

If you had to choose one for an all round DMR would it be a SS Craddock? SS Compass Lake? or a Carbon Fiber Proof?

What were the lead times like?

What mirage mitigation techniques did you use with the Carbon Fiber Proof?

Is the Seekins SP10 a DPMS Pattern? Asking because of barrel compatability terminology.

What buffer are you using with the +2 system?
Click to expand...

Compass lake engineering without a doubt, call and ask for Paul and let him know I sent you. CLE will spin your barrel up anyway you want and get it out in a timely fashion (8 weeks) Craddock is great but his wait times are ridiculously long and doesn't do special requests.

Don't waste your time with proof carbon fiber barrels the consistency of the quality that they've been turning out lately has been poor to say the least, I had two barrels that I immediately return cuz it looks like they used a pumice stone to chamber it.

I wrapped the handguard with heat tape and used a F class Mirage Shield over the barrel.

The Seekins SP10 can use Armalite or DPMS Barrel exstenions, just make sure to use the corresponding BCG.

Like all my rifles I use a JP SCS.
 
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#74
I caved and snagged an old SPX for too good of a price to pass up. Currently a work in progress to get re-barreled and some components replaced. Obligatory pic.

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An interesting note that I have been unable to get an answer on, is the lower and barrel are marked Seekins, but the upper receiver is GAP marked. Any ideas on this?

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#75
blbennett1288 said:
I caved and snagged an old SPX for too good of a price to pass up. Currently a work in progress to get re-barreled and some components replaced. Obligatory pic.

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An interesting note that I have been unable to get an answer on, is the lower and barrel are marked Seekins, but the upper receiver is GAP marked. Any ideas on this?

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Click to expand...

Seekins makes the receivers for the new GAP 10 G2, so more than likely they used that upper to complete the order for your SPX which was the first generation of the SP10.

If you need any help with this SP10 project let me know, I've ran just about every single configuration possible in mine so just let me know what your intended use and I'll get you squared away.
 
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#76
bigjake83 said:
I did use Loctite 620 on both barrels
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I’ve used Loctite 620 on several guns I’ve built and always had good results. Of course, I did not test them before using Loctite, so who really knows. What I have not done is remove one of my barrels that was bedded with 620. Have you removed a barrel bedded that way and if so, how did you do it and how much of a pain was it?
 
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#77
KYAggie said:
I’ve used Loctite 620 on several guns I’ve built and always had good results. Of course, I did not test them before using Loctite, so who really knows. What I have not done is remove one of my barrels that was bedded with 620. Have you removed a barrel bedded that way and if so, how did you do it and how much of a pain was it?
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It's a pain in the ass, you just have to heat up the forward end of the upper and beat it out.
 
#81
KYAggie said:
I’ve used Loctite 620 on several guns I’ve built and always had good results. Of course, I did not test them before using Loctite, so who really knows. What I have not done is remove one of my barrels that was bedded with 620. Have you removed a barrel bedded that way and if so, how did you do it and how much of a pain was it?
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I used a propane torch (not acetylene). It doesn’t take very long to expand the aluminum. I bought a piece of wood that fit relatively snug in the upper and was expecting to have to hammer the barrel extension but ended up only having to tap it out by hand. The green loctite only bonded with the barrel extension and did not bond with my upper.
 
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#88
Lead Kisses said:
How much weight was shaved moving to the Proof barrel?
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Not enough to take the gamble on buying another one, Ive still got a couple PRCF barrels but only because their proven performers. The last three PRCF barrels I've owned had to be returned without even shooting, the chambering job look like total dog shit. The 24" PRCF barrel I had in the seekins performed exceptionally well but must of been a Unicorn because the next four or five barrels I purchased after that one.... not so much. (3) 6.5CM and (2) .308 barrels.

There's a reason why a lot of people will order 10 of their barrels from a company with a generous return policy, pick the best one and then send the rest back.

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#89
bigjake83 said:
Not enough to take the gamble on buying another one, Ive still got a couple PRCF barrels but only because their proven performers. The last three PRCF barrels I've owned had to be returned, the chambering job look like total dog shit.

There's a reason why a lot of people will order 10 of their barrels from a company with a generous return policy, pick the best one and then send the rest back.

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Are you seeing this problem with their steel barrels?
 
#90
kriller134 said:
Are you seeing this problem with their steel barrels?
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No but I haven't bought one is probably 2 years.. all the SS proof research barrels I've owned have been very good so I do still recommend those to people especially for .308, 6ARC, 6.5G and .223 because they're still a single point cut Barrel in the $440 which is a pretty good deal compared to its competitors like the Rainier Arms Ultra
Match which is in the same price range, and every proof SS Barrel I've had has outperformed all of the Rainier ultramatch barrels that I've ever owned.

Just make sure to buy it from a company like Brownells, Midway USA or opticsplanet and that way when you get it home it looks like shit send it back..
 
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#91
Unless someone else is chambering the CF barrels I don’t see how shoddy/sloppy chambering wouldn’t be something that crosses product lines.
 
#92
You never know with this stuff it can cause your head to explode. I bought a BA barrel and it had beautiful rifling and an off center chamber.
BA replaced it and the replacement had a perfectly cut chamber with Savage style cut with a chisel rifling, but it shot good. My latest Proof steel barrel is good no issues with the machining.
 
#94
I pulled my older SP10 firing pin and its 0.068”. JP’s original HP bolt came with a 0.068” firing pin. JP has since updated it to 0.062”. Toolcraft offers a small firing pin of 0.065”. Seekins current offering is 0.065”. LFP appears to be standard at 0.08”.

Having said all that, does anyone see any issue with running 0.068” in a 6.5CM?
 
#95
blbennett1288 said:
I pulled my older SP10 firing pin and its 0.068”. JP’s original HP bolt came with a 0.068” firing pin. JP has since updated it to 0.062”. Toolcraft offers a small firing pin of 0.065”. Seekins current offering is 0.065”. LFP appears to be standard at 0.08”.

Having said all that, does anyone see any issue with running 0.068” in a 6.5CM?
Click to expand...

All of my JP .308 HP Bolts have a .058 firing pin.
 
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#97
blbennett1288 said:
I pulled my older SP10 firing pin and its 0.068”. JP’s original HP bolt came with a 0.068” firing pin. JP has since updated it to 0.062”. Toolcraft offers a small firing pin of 0.065”. Seekins current offering is 0.065”. LFP appears to be standard at 0.08”.

Having said all that, does anyone see any issue with running 0.068” in a 6.5CM?
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What is the diameter of the firing pin hole in the bolt face? Have you noticed any cratering of the primer?
 
#99
bigjake83 said:
They've been that way for some time now, I've got a few that are at least 4 years old and they have the .058 Pins.

The .065 is the middle ground that a lot of manufacturers are going with, Armalite started it I believe.
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Sounds like I should be “okay” with 0.068” then. Running a mild load and not too fast with 140’s.
 
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