Sell Me: $700 Kestrel 5700 w/AB vs $90 WeatherFlow?

[Tim_WNC]

Is the $700 price tag for a Kestrell 5700 with AB really justified?

My current setup is a Weatherflow WEATHERmeter (http://weatherflow.com/weather-meter-for-shooting/) linked to Strelok Pro and/or Weatherflow's GeoBallistics running in iOS. The WEATHERmeter gives me all of the atmospheric stuff - DA, temp, etc. just the same as a Kestrel. The solutions I'm getting have worked out to 1,000yds.

So, why not stick with the $90 answer? It's not a snarky question, obviously Kestrel has a huge market share. That's not an accident. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm missing.

EDIT: Kestrel's Live Chat dude's reply was "Kestrel is more durable and is a standalone unit"

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

Yeah your phone will fuck you eventually and then you will have to ask someone with a Kestrel what to do

 

[Tim_WNC]

Yeah your phone will fuck you eventually and then you will have to ask someone with a Kestrel what to do

Are we talking sweet lovin' on a warm summer's night or angry back alley "I hate that I need you" fucking? 'Cause for $600, I could be convinced...

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Kestrel dude is right.
In short - one device to manage with 12+ month battery life. AB custom curves built in for ballistics calculations. No transferring data between devices, etc. No managing two devices with two different power systems and battery lifespans.

The alternative is buying the cheaper ballistics-enabled kestrel (now branded at the 5700 Ballistics model) and later upgrading to the Applied Ballistics Elite software package via download from NK and a cable (or BT dongle).

 

[LastShot300]

EDIT: Kestrel's Live Chat dude's reply was "Kestrel is more durable and is a standalone unit"

Is that all the justification he got to fight up?

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

Are we talking sweet lovin' on a warm summer's night or angry back alley "I hate that I need you" fucking? 'Cause for $600, I could be convinced...

Might have more of a R Kelly vibe

 

[Tim_WNC]

Is that all the justification he got to fight up?

yup.

 

[Tim_WNC]

AB custom curves built in for ballistics calculations.

Is this different from 'truing' via Strelok?

 

[Subwrx300]

Hahaha! Besides almost shooting Pepsi out my nose reading @WNC Seabee reply and @GrandpaDeadLegs even better follow-up, hands down Kestel AB 5700 Elite.

There is a slight learning curve (compass calibration, target azimuth vs wind heading, etc) but it's ridiculous how accurate the solutions are for various calibers in multiple environments, temps and altitudes.

I mean it's almost good enough that you would pay for a back alley wrong way fucking... Only your the one getting fucked and you STILL turn around to say "Thank You for, may I have another?!"

On 6.5s, 308s, 223s and even manually entered 224Vs I've waterlined shots within 1/2MOA out to 800yds with the 223 calibers and beyond 1K with 6.5s without truing data. At matches it's awesome to be able to quickly get real-time elevation correction to fill in your match book.

It's not that phone calculators don't work, it's simply that the Kestrel is designed as a complete field use solution that's easier to use one handed without constantly fiddle fucking with swipes and gloves and other shit.

Would I but one again? Yes, and I'd even do it bareback!

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Is this different from 'truing' via Strelok?

Very. The AB custom curves are doppler-measured ballistics curves (not BCs) generated on their test range with live fire. I've had great luck with the custom curves over the years.

 

[howe0001]

huh... guess I got lucky with my Strelok and weatherflow .....I got a first round ,un-trued hit (with many follow up hits) at 980 yards on a 12 x 12 plate with my 26" 308 shooting 178 Amax from hornady brass. Man, I didn't realize how lucky I was. I better run out and get a Kestrel now.

 

[Tim_WNC]

huh... guess I got lucky with my Strelok and weatherflow .....I got a first round ,un-trued hit (with many follow up hits) at 980 yards on a 12 x 12 plate with my 26" 308 shooting 178 Amax from hornady brass. Man, I didn't realize how lucky I was. I better run out and get a Kestrel now.

That's been my experience as well....until I started reading here and knew better! =)

 

[howe0001]

I'm sure if went for 1000 yards instead, I would have missed by 100 inches or so.. It's that extra 20 yards that's worth another $600. I'll shoot less and save up for the kestrel, because that makes sense to me.......not.

 

[Diver160651]

I am not going to try to talk you into one or the other. Hell, I have a weather flow, 5500 and 5700 elites but am almost always on paper..

Nothing more crappy than having your kestrel bake in the sun and give you wrong info or have to dick with it if you have 7 targets various FOF (each with their unique wind). Again, in this case, I'd rather use paper, a phone app with target cards like BallasticARC or anything really than scroll target by target on the the Kestrel.

More often than not, in matches I am not using a wind meter of any kind.. The wind at the FFP, especially in hilly country is not what you need to be judging your shot on. The flags below are far left in the canyon on the Silhouette range between the match stages and the targets, but the wind at the FFP was from behind the shooter's back in the lower image.

If I was a new shooter, a shooter who still did not have all the things I needed, I would buy the $80 weather station to learn what the wind felt like, save $600 and put it into a class or ammo until I had all the more important stuff.

If you have time nothing wrong with the Kestrel.. It just is not the only tool to have.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

huh... guess I got lucky with my Strelok and weatherflow .....I got a first round ,un-trued hit (with many follow up hits) at 980 yards on a 12 x 12 plate with my 26" 308 shooting 178 Amax from hornady brass. Man, I didn't realize how lucky I was. I better run out and get a Kestrel now.

Who said or implied that a phone app couldn't be accurate, especially at those distances? The custom curves really only start to become a benefit beyond TS ranges, and you can do those (for $2 each) in AB Mobile if that is what you prefer. The advantage of the Kestrel is reducing the amount of gear you're managing and not keeping two different devices (WeatherFlow and phone) fed with power. I've suggested the WF+Phone combo to plenty of new shooters as an economical option for starting out.

 

[Subwrx300]

^^^ this. I said phones can and do work (I run AB Mobile, Hornady and a couple others), but Kestrel is just faster, easier to use with gloves and is designed to be used in crap weather (some phones aren't).

I still use phone when just plinking or need quick reference, but use Kestrel much more for matches in new environments. I rarely use it for stage to stage wind unless conditions have changed dramatically. Most stages can be run center, left/right edge, or half target out L/R.

Weather Flow is good for cheap way to learn wind speed initially and come up with solutions. Kestrel just speeds process without need for phone, Bluetooth, plugins etc. That's all. Worth 600? I shoot 10-12 matches and 5000+ rounds per year, so yes in my case.

Casual shooter? Maybe not. Beginner? Maybe not. But the argument of cost versus spending on more ammo? 600 doesn't get you very far with factory rounds at 1.00-1.50 per round. Everyone has priorities. You've gotta find your limiting factor and find ways to improve: sometimes more practice and sometimes better equipment. Different for everyone.

 

[.30kal]

I had a WeatherFlow and it was not nearly as accurate as a Kestrel. As stated above, using 2 devices is a pain especially when the phone acts as your primary ballistic solver. If you shoot in an environment where there is poor or no reception, your phone will run out of juice quick. I dumped my WeatherFlow for the Kestrel + AB and haven't looked back.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I had a WeatherFlow and it was not nearly as accurate as a Kestrel. As stated above, using 2 devices is a pain especially when the phone acts as your primary ballistic solver. If you shoot in an environment where there is poor or no reception, your phone will run out of juice quick. I dumped my WeatherFlow for the Kestrel + AB and haven't looked back.

Putting the phone in airplane mode, then turning bluetooth back on solves much of the battery drain when in remote areas.

 

[Mxridr]

Kestrel. Just had it out in the rain. They are very durable. I run a sportsman which go for about 400. Does everything I need

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Kestrel. Just had it out in the rain. They are very durable. I run a sportsman which go for about 400. Does everything I need

That's what mine started off as, then got upgraded with the Elite software package. IMO, the Elite upgrade is worth it.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

Yeah it's a variable based on total investment.

There is an older model with AB on the PX for $350 right now... Compromise possible.

My phone turns off at the first whiff of high or low temperatures, so it's a non starter for mission critical gear.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

You can also connect a number of devices to the Kestrel. Like the Sig Sauer 2400 BDX or 3000 BDX Binoculars. If the 3000 BDX don't range far enough for you you can also connect it up to a RAPTAR-S or Steiner M830r LRF.

 

[abn31c]

FWIW, I bought a Weatherflow. I struggled getting it to connect for a week, maybe I'm an idiot. Finally figured it out and headed to my local match. After fuckin with it at the first stage i went back to pulling my data from the local airport. This works out like a scratch ticket for me, but hey better than nothing. The next week I'm standing in Mile High handing my money to Mike while Adam is setting up my new 5700. Based on the info I gave Adam i got a first round impact at 976. Truing was painless. Now I have 1 device only. Perfect. If you're budget allows I strongly recomend the buy once method here.
Just my opinion.

 

[usafa77]

Let's see a "what the pro's use" survey. I know what my money is on.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

It took me four years to get to the point I finally bought a Kestrel 5700. There’s a lot to be said for a cheap wind meter and a ballistic app and there are a lot of people shooting well inside 1000y with those tools.

If you’re using it at a tool to accelerate or expand learning, the 5700 w/ AB is pretty amazing. If one uses it as a crutch or to avoid learning, one would be cheating themselves.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I was in your shoes a few months ago. Took a bit of talking myself into and I waited until I had most other things I needed. I noticed a huge difference in a good way.

Mainly just the ease of use, but as stated, the custom curves are awesome.

Here’s a list of pros for the 5700 elite over the weatherflow

Once you upload the rifle data from your phone, you leave it in the car. This is huge in rainy days where you either don’t want to get your phone wet or the touch screen doesn’t work well when wet. You’re also less distracted looking at stupid shit like email while you should be focused on the match

Don’t have to connect anything. My weatherflow would sometimes be screwy and not want to connect right away.

Custom curves are nice. I shot our finale match with a literally brand new barrel. All I did was zero and chrono. Used the 108 eld custom curve and finished 7 shots from the winner. And zero misses were from elevation dope.

It’s faster than the weatherflow. A few swings and you get your weather data fast. Weatherflow can take a few minutes. Especially after it’s been cooking in your pocket. I keep my kestrel on a belt pouch, so it’s rarely just out in the sun or cooking in a backpack.

At first it seems like a steep learning curve, but it’s very easy after you get it. Also, you can use it comfortably with one hand. Most phones nowadays are not easily operated with one hand.

I haven’t messed with connecting it to other devices, but I’m sure that’s another plus.


Basically, it performs how you would expect something that is $650 to perform compared to $80.

Buy the 5700, and just go ahead and buy the elite. It’s one of the best pieces of kit besides your rifle.

 

[matchbook454]

Hey guys, I’m new to long range shooting and am learning g quite a bit on the Hide here. I am looking into Ballitics apps, etc and will probably start out with the weather flow route to start as there is quite a bit of other equipment on my list. I do have some cabelas gift cards though and the kestrel 5700 ballistics meter with link is only $399. I am wondering if that may be a better option. Would I then use that with a ballistics app for the time being and then upgrade to the Elite AB for the $300?

 

[DaleGribble82]

Kestrel all the way bud. I’m far removed from being behind the gun at work, but when I was I’d bet my life on that thing. Easy to operate once you learn how to properly employ it. Very handy especially with the GPS. Real time atmospherics. The AB software is out of control good. When I first used this kit during the glass I said “I don’t believe this stuff your saying”, well they proved me fucking wrong real quick lol. You won’t be disappointed whatsoever. Personally on my own time I use the Kestrel 5700 Sportmans Conx combo with the Busnell Elite range finder. It fits my needs I don’t compete in PRS so for my needs it gets the job done and with precision. You will be much better off with the Kestrel Elite 5700. I always say “buy once cry once”. You will not be disappointed with this purchase.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Hey guys, I’m new to long range shooting and am learning g quite a bit on the Hide here. I am looking into Ballitics apps, etc and will probably start out with the weather flow route to start as there is quite a bit of other equipment on my list. I do have some cabelas gift cards though and the kestrel 5700 ballistics meter with link is only $399. I am wondering if that may be a better option. Would I then use that with a ballistics app for the time being and then upgrade to the Elite AB for the $300?

The Kestrel 5700 Ballistics already has ballistics functions built into it, just with some features (like custom curves and range card) turned off. You wouldn't need your phone or an app at all, just the Kestrel. You can upgrade to the full Elite software package later on by paying for the upgrade through NK. I went the same route with the Sportsman from the Bushnell ConX bundle, and now the only difference in my 'Sportsman' and the Elite with Link is the label on the front of the screen.

 

[matchbook454]

The Kestrel 5700 Ballistics already has ballistics functions built into it, just with some features (like custom curves and range card) turned off. You wouldn't need your phone or an app at all, just the Kestrel. You can upgrade to the full Elite software package later on by paying for the upgrade through NK. I went the same route with the Sportsman from the Bushnell ConX bundle, and now the only difference in my 'Sportsman' and the Elite with Link is the label on the front of the screen.

How accurate are the solutions given by the ballistic function? As for custom curves, is this referring to tweaking in the mv and/or bc to get the suggested solutions to match you actual solutions? I hope I worded that all correctly. I am a newbie!

 

[Dthomas3523]

How accurate are the solutions given by the ballistic function? As for custom curves, is this referring to tweaking in the mv and/or bc to get the suggested solutions to match you actual solutions? I hope I worded that all correctly. I am a newbie!

Custom curves are pre-researched and tested BC/curves done by Brian Litz/Applied Ballistics.

They are pretty accurate overall with little tweaking needed.

I believe you can buy individual curves for a few dollars.

For me, the extra money for the elite just for a single curve would be worth it considering the time and expense they put into the testing.

 

[matchbook454]

Custom curves are pre-researched and tested BC/curves done by Brian Litz/Applied Ballistics.

They are pretty accurate overall with little tweaking needed.

I believe you can buy individual curves for a few dollars.

For me, the extra money for the elite just for a single curve would be worth it considering the time and expense they put into the testing.

Thanks for the help! Appreciate it!

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

How accurate are the solutions given by the ballistic function? As for custom curves, is this referring to tweaking in the mv and/or bc to get the suggested solutions to match you actual solutions? I hope I worded that all correctly. I am a newbie!

Assuming you feed it accurate data, they're usually spot on or damn close. Custom curves refer to the AB Custom Drag Models for a particular bullet - they're not standard BCs but an entirely different system. Assuming nothing changed from the Sportsman, you can tweak BC and MV as needed, or use the truing option, to get your real world data lined up with the Kestrel.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Custom curves are pre-researched and tested BC/curves done by Brian Litz/Applied Ballistics.

They are pretty accurate overall with little tweaking needed.

I believe you can buy individual curves for a few dollars.

For me, the extra money for the elite just for a single curve would be worth it considering the time and expense they put into the testing.

As far as I know, you can only buy individual curves in AB Mobile, the lower end Kestrels don't support them at all.

 

[Holliday]

Yeah your phone will fuck you eventually and then you will have to ask someone with a Kestrel what to do

I cannot tell you how many times my various iphones have shut down because of it being too cold or too hot. Not to mention they are hard to read in the field and not rain/water proof.

Is the $700 price tag for a Kestrell 5700 with AB really justified?

My current setup is a Weatherflow WEATHERmeter (http://weatherflow.com/weather-meter-for-shooting/) linked to Strelok Pro and/or Weatherflow's GeoBallistics running in iOS. The WEATHERmeter gives me all of the atmospheric stuff - DA, temp, etc. just the same as a Kestrel. The solutions I'm getting have worked out to 1,000yds.

So, why not stick with the $90 answer? It's not a snarky question, obviously Kestrel has a huge market share. That's not an accident. I'm just trying to figure out what I'm missing.

EDIT: Kestrel's Live Chat dude's reply was "Kestrel is more durable and is a standalone unit"

I was one of the first consumers to get the 5700 AB. Because it was a new product there were a couple of bumps in the initial firmwares etc. At times I questioned whether I had made the right decision.

Fast forward 4 years and I consider the 5700 AB (now called Elite) one of my prize possessions. So many pieces of electronics really show their weaknesses in the field. Not so with the 5700. It is military grade tough and freakin' reliable. I never have any issues using it in the field.

The wind vane function is a dream come true on the range here in Wyoming with constantly changing winds. This function ports your come-ups real-time to your phone so you have instantaneous wind corrections. I shoot out to 1200 yards and this turns a crappy windy day into a great day at the range. Seriously, in fast changing winds it's cheating....

As for "heat sink", I switch the environmentals on, swing the unit around by the lanyard for a few seconds to get an accurate temp reading, then lock them. I do this periodically when I feel the temperature has changed significantly. It's that simple. Oh and buy FDE not black....

 

[Dthomas3523]

Only thing I’d change is buying blaze orange instead of fde.

I keep mine in a belt pouch, but the orange is a lot easier to find if you drop it.

 

[Subwrx300]

Only thing I’d change is buying blaze orange instead of fde.

I keep mine in a belt pouch, but the orange is a lot easier to find if you drop it.

The wisdom of that post is hard to emphasize for those that havent looked for an FDE/Coyote item in dead grasses or field conditions.

+500 bonus points to @Dthomas3523!

 

[matchbook454]

Only thing I’d change is buying blaze orange instead of fde.

I keep mine in a belt pouch, but the orange is a lot easier to find if you drop it.

Yeah, that’s something you’re not going to want to loose!