Range Report Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Lindy

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 26, 2003
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www.arcanamavens.com
I have acquired the new version of Shooter Ready, and I find it to be a serious training tool - if you use it seriously.

Here's how I'm doing that.

It's easy to achieve hits, if you set the atmospheric and load parameters up in your ballistic software, put in each shot, and let it calculate the settings. Trivial. Uninteresting - except as a way to burn time. I'd rather play solitaire.

What I do is to set it up to practice field shooting without all the electronic aids I typically carry.

I use the following shooting aids:

(1) I print off a Density Altitude ballistic card for each load on JBM Ballistics. The simulation provides the load parameters. I print the card off using only the basic temperature supplied by the simulation, and then manually correct the velocity for temperature changes. (If you don't know how to do that, see Making Ballistic Cards Using Density Altitude.

(2) I use the DA calculator HERE.. I do that because the simulation provides only sea-level-referenced barometric pressure. An alternative method would be to use the Excel chart and temperature compensation chart from Manual Calculation of Density Altitude. To do that, though, you'd need to use the SLBP and correct it to get the station pressure to use those aids. Since I carry a watch which gives me station pressure in the field, and I have practiced extensively to manually calculate DA using the methods in that article, I don't do that. You might wish to.

(3) I use a Mildot Master to do the ranging calculations, and also the calculations for inclined shots.

(4) I use a printed wind chart which I carry in the field for a 175 SMK at 2600 fps to make the wind calls. A photograph of that chart is below.

When using other loads, I use a ballistic program which makes a wind chart very similar to that one.

Then I run the simulation. I calculate each shot, then note the results. If I haven't hit the target where I expected to, I evaluate my calculation to find the error.

Doing this is fun - but it's also excellent practice in the application of the skills necessary to making hits on UKD targets in the field.

The wind calls are of course not as complex as the ones you will find in the field. But it's still excellent serious practice in the application of field shooting skills - if taken seriously.

Shooter Ready is an excellent simulation. It's also a good question. Shooter Ready?

The wind chart for a 175SMK, velocity 2600, at sea level on a 75 degree day. Rows are range in yards, columns are wind speed in MPH, the data in the cells are wind hold in mils.

windchart.jpg

 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Dave:

That's a simple one I built using this formula:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
(range in yards/100) * wind (mph)
wind hold(mils) = ----------------------------------
constant
</pre></div></div>

The constants I use are:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
Range(yards) Constant
<= 500 45
600 43
700 41
800 39
900 38
1000 37
</pre></div></div>

However, that's a rough approximation for my load. If you want one more accurate, use a ballistic program set up for your load and a 1 mph full-value crosswind, and work the formula backwards:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>
(range in yards/100) * wind (mph)
constant = ----------------------------------
wind hold(mils)
</pre></div></div>

(You might need to set up the ballistic program for a 10 mph wind, to get enough resolution, and then adjust the constant accordingly.)
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Really like the new version. The hostage targets are pretty nice in that you have to range off horizontal mil line and different body parts. Pretty nice. Have been switching between the MIL and MOA with math and mildot master. So far I like it alot
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

When I loaded that program the first time, I had a problem with the screen size. That problem is noted on the Update page on the shooterready.com web site:

http://www.shooterready.com/update.html

A patch is available, which I downloaded, and it works great. Problem solved. Running on my laptop at a screen resolution of 1366 X 768, it looks great!

The patch is only necessary in the first small batch of CDs.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

On those hostage targets, I ran the ballistic calculation, and it appears to me that the wind calculation in the simulation drop table is about 20 percent too high. But I just used the drift calculation in the table to figure inches of hold, and then used the Mildot Master to convert it to a mil hold. That worked fine.

That hostage simulation, particularly at the longer ranges, reminded me of why I don't like scopes limited to 10 power, particularly for ranging.
laugh.gif


 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On those hostage targets, I ran the ballistic calculation, and it appears to me that the wind calculation in the simulation drop table is about 20 percent too high. But I just used the drift calculation in the table to figure inches of hold, and then used the Mildot Master to convert it to a mil hold. That worked fine.
</div></div>
Hi Lindy,
The wind and elevation calculations were made with Sierra Infinity 6. They should be right on. If the wind is off so should be the elevations. Maybe you are using slightly different bullet data or atmospherics. I do not entirely understand how you are developing your data.

I explain in the "using the range card" classroom that you will get a better mil hold value if you start with inches of drift, calculate the moa then convert to mils with an example. This is why I give inches of drift along with mil hold.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That hostage simulation, particularly at the longer ranges, reminded me of why I don't like scopes limited to 10 power, particularly for ranging.
laugh.gif

</div></div>

The hostage and the rest of the .223 stages are not really long range. Part of the reason for having part of the targets obscured was to make it a little more challenging. They are so large at 10X you could hit them if all you did was leave the adjustments at zero. If I allowed the use of the 20X then then targets were larger than the reticle field.

Thanks for the comments.

Karin
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

I used JBM Ballistics with Bryan Litz's G7 BC for that bullet.

The wind drift computed by that program is actually only about 5 percent less than what the drop table in the simulation has, which is because Bryan's average G1 BC for that bullet is 0.371 rather than the 0.361 reported by the program.

Most manufacturer's BCs are too high - in this case it appears that the manufacturer's BC may be too low.

I just set it up using the same tools I'd actually use in the field, but, as I said, if one just uses the value in the drop table, it works fine.

Which matters not at all to the value of the simulation, as the actual values like muzzle velocity are going to vary anyway.

It's a very useful training tool - as well as a lot of fun!

The real value for me is taking the ballistic data, and applying it to the scenarios. That involves having to interpolate drop and wind values, as well as density altitude data, between the increments which I carry in the field.

Having temperature and pressure variations in the scenarios is super!

That's a great exercise, because a shooter in the field on a given day is going to be shooting in conditions which are relatively constant, so there won't be much opportunity to compensate for different conditions.

What I do is to generate a firing solution as quickly as I can, as if I were in the field under time pressure to hit the target. Then I take the results of the shot, and see where my method needs refinement, if any.

What the actual values are is not important.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Received my software Friday... finally loaded it and tried it out today... seriously good. I think it's the best training aid short of live fire range time with a good instructor for ranging I've ever seen.

Good job Karin !
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

I got my copy of Version 3.0 last night.
I won't be getting much work done today.
I'm having a ball....I like the seeking cover section.
Lots of great stuff!
Thanks Karin!!
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used JBM Ballistics with Bryan Litz's G7 BC for that bullet.

The wind drift computed by that program is actually only about 5 percent less than what the drop table in the simulation has, which is because Bryan's average G1 BC for that bullet is 0.371 rather than the 0.361 reported by the program.

Most manufacturer's BCs are too high - in this case it appears that the manufacturer's BC may be too low.

</div></div>

Lindy, I was thinking about this for a few days and wondered why manufacturers would be reporting their BC's incorrectly. The .223 bullet used is a Sierra bullet and they are using their BC in their software. If you finding such a consistent difference in BC's I wonder if it might not be the sources you are using.

I spent some time talking to Sierra's ballistics technicians while developing the new data for the simulation (in fact I bugged the heck out of them) as well as the programmer for their software since I found a few bugs. I'm considering asking them about the differing BC's.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

You might find Bryan's book a useful reference:

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Book.htm

Bryan is the chief ballistician for Berger Bullets. He tested a large number of bullets to find not only corrected values for G1 BCs, but also G7 BCs. The G7 drag model is a better fit for modern boattail bullets than the older G1 standard, which fits a less-streamlined flat-based bullet.

Some speculate that manufacturers report higher BCs than are justified by testing to make their own products look better - but whatever the motives, most people who have used ballistics programs for very long are aware of the discrepancies.

And few manufacturers report G7 BCs, perhaps because they are lower than the G1 BCs, so Bryan's work is a major source for those interested in a higher level of accuracy with ballistic programs.

Bryan and Berger also offer a free ballistic program which is more accurate than most. It's here:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Ballistics%20Program/index.html

JBM Ballistics is now using many of Bryan's BCs in its bullet library. The ones in the library have (Litz) behind the bullet designation. Note that JBM doesn't tell you what the BC is when you pick one of those bullets, but it does use the BC.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Thank you for the information. If I decide I can survive another update I will look into this more closely. I used Sierra Infinity because I was so familiar with it. Although, I did find an error. If you calculate your mil holds for the range in meters the values you get are wrong. I reported it and they say they will fix it in the next version.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Karin, I wouldn't worry about the issue of ballistic coefficients and wind calculations.

Those who use the supplied wind drift figures in the simulation will have no trouble hitting the target. Whether the wind drift figures are accurate is unimportant and has nothing to do with the training value of the simulation, because the shooter's actual load is very likely to be different from that in the simulation.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Karin, I wouldn't worry about the issue of ballistic coefficients and wind calculations.

Those who use the supplied wind drift figures in the simulation will have no trouble hitting the target. Whether the wind drift figures are accurate is unimportant and has nothing to do with the training value of the simulation, because the shooter's actual load is very likely to be different from that in the simulation.
</div></div>

It is important that the figures given for the wind drift and elevation in the simulation are accurate. I'm still puzzling over the idea that all the other ballistics software out there is giving incorrect values or that all the other bullet manufacturers lie about their bullet data. This doesn't make alot of sense to me. I have had many users saying that when using their own software or methods of calculation data they get the same values as given in the simulation.
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Karin ,
Also using the rev 3 and THANK YOU it helps a lot in simulation and use of the itouch and the ballistic program I use . its as good as shooting and here its 18 degrees .

Thanks agin and like Lindy said its a great real world simulation in that it teaches the fundamentals and the variables are real world!!!

Bill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Karin, I wouldn't worry about the issue of ballistic coefficients and wind calculations.

Those who use the supplied wind drift figures in the simulation will have no trouble hitting the target. Whether the wind drift figures are accurate is unimportant and has nothing to do with the training value of the simulation, because the shooter's actual load is very likely to be different from that in the simulation.
</div></div>
 
Re: Serious Application of a Shooting Simulation

Karin,

As Lindy (basically) said, I would not worry about splitting split hairs in the demo. Every user will have a differing MV with their particular weapon, likely differing twist rates in their bore, many of us hand load and trim the meplat (point) of the bullet for consistency (again altering BC) etc. It's just not possible for a person to train with the demo, walk outside and use the same corrections,dope nor data for their particular setup in the real world.

But as others said- the demo is wonderful. It gets you to where you know the math procedures, techniques and a few needy speedy SWAGS like the back of your hand- all which the intermediate to advanced user can adopt to their load/system in the field with banging results.

On another note... I was shocked to see the .300WM is a 180 power point? It's now the primary sniping round of the Army, but "loading" it with 180 power points in the demo is unrealistic and really detracts from the rounds shining ability- when using suitable bullets. 190-220 Match Kings or VLD's with 210 grainers getting the nod from me. But again, so long as the demo dope works for the demo load- I can learn and grow and become more efficient with it, even it it was loaded with double ended wad cutters.

Thanks for the "How to best use this product" type or write-up LINDY... you might convert it to one of your handy .pdf file/articles you have sent me in the past. [EDIT: duh, you have- I clicked the links]