I just had a new JP single stage match trigger installed in my AR-15 and when I took it out to test today, it was shooting two rounds at a time. Don't know exactly why, but thank god I was the only one on the range. I shot 7 rounds, and had only one single fire in the group. I put the rifle back in its case and figured I need to give the lower back to the smith who adjusted the trigger. Could the weight be too light? Would that cause these types of double fires?
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Serious trouble with AR-15 **UPDATE**
- Thread starter ZLBubba
- Start date
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
Proper trigger technique for your bolt gun will do it.
It's called bump fire. A little practice and you can empty a 30 rounder in a heartbeat!
Proper trigger technique for your bolt gun will do it.
It's called bump fire. A little practice and you can empty a 30 rounder in a heartbeat!
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
I'm guessing that there isn't enough sear engagement, coupled with the disconecter isn't set properly.
I don't know that I'd take it back to the same guy that screwed it up in the first place, because, he apparently doesn't know what he's doing.
I'm guessing that there isn't enough sear engagement, coupled with the disconecter isn't set properly.
I don't know that I'd take it back to the same guy that screwed it up in the first place, because, he apparently doesn't know what he's doing.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
They ship with a manual... I installed a JP adjustable on my LR308 myself. I'd ask him if he did any metal removal during the install, as it would be hard to believe that he couldn't get the overtravel adjustment correct.
They ship with a manual... I installed a JP adjustable on my LR308 myself. I'd ask him if he did any metal removal during the install, as it would be hard to believe that he couldn't get the overtravel adjustment correct.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
I have only shot 1 ar that had a quality trigger.
It is my buddies Les Bear.
I had to mentally adjust something in my brain housing group to make it not double tap. He shot it just fine, so did our other partner. But shooting it like my bolt gun? Tap, tap.
Just saying... It's possible. If I made a mental note to myself to hold the trigger harder to the rear than I do on my bolt guns, it singled.
Might try it before you tell your smith off.
I have only shot 1 ar that had a quality trigger.
It is my buddies Les Bear.
I had to mentally adjust something in my brain housing group to make it not double tap. He shot it just fine, so did our other partner. But shooting it like my bolt gun? Tap, tap.
Just saying... It's possible. If I made a mental note to myself to hold the trigger harder to the rear than I do on my bolt guns, it singled.
Might try it before you tell your smith off.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
It double-shot on both a full follow through, and slapping the trigger. I think it's a sear engagement issue myself. I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. Hmmm, tricky issue...
It double-shot on both a full follow through, and slapping the trigger. I think it's a sear engagement issue myself. I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. Hmmm, tricky issue...
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
No sweat. Just a thought.
Good luck with it. Hope he makes it right.
No sweat. Just a thought.
Good luck with it. Hope he makes it right.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. Hmmm, tricky issue...</div></div>
Ouch. Yeah, I'll echo misguided's wish for luck. I would only go back to that smith to ask for a replacement trigger kit or refund.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. Hmmm, tricky issue...</div></div>
Ouch. Yeah, I'll echo misguided's wish for luck. I would only go back to that smith to ask for a replacement trigger kit or refund.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
Well, I know the dude so I'll give him a chance to make it right. I'm not using my AR that often so if he can fix it, then I'm good. If he gives me any guff though, I'll go elsewhere and hope they can fix the mistake.
Well, I know the dude so I'll give him a chance to make it right. I'm not using my AR that often so if he can fix it, then I'm good. If he gives me any guff though, I'll go elsewhere and hope they can fix the mistake.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
Installed a bunch of these triggers, they are my favorite and the price versus performance is good.
Out of the dozen or so I have installed, NONE required any metal removal. I suspect your smith didn't read the simple directions that came with it, and tried to "fix" it. If the trigger didn't work right, JP would make it right, they have a even replaced a trigger for me, when a heavy handed buddy kept pulling the trigger, with the safety on, until he broke it.
Filing on an AR trigger, usually results in doubles, and it's dangerous, the rifle can ( but normally won't)fire out of battery ie the bolt not fully locked. Don't try to keep shooting it, get it fixed.
Me, I'd get the trigger replaced, at the smith's expense. His dremel/file work as removed the hardening on the sear/disconnector/trigger, and it won't hold adjustment in the future, that's why those parts are hardened. And why files are poor practice there....
Installed a bunch of these triggers, they are my favorite and the price versus performance is good.
Out of the dozen or so I have installed, NONE required any metal removal. I suspect your smith didn't read the simple directions that came with it, and tried to "fix" it. If the trigger didn't work right, JP would make it right, they have a even replaced a trigger for me, when a heavy handed buddy kept pulling the trigger, with the safety on, until he broke it.
Filing on an AR trigger, usually results in doubles, and it's dangerous, the rifle can ( but normally won't)fire out of battery ie the bolt not fully locked. Don't try to keep shooting it, get it fixed.
Me, I'd get the trigger replaced, at the smith's expense. His dremel/file work as removed the hardening on the sear/disconnector/trigger, and it won't hold adjustment in the future, that's why those parts are hardened. And why files are poor practice there....
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. </div></div>
Your smith has poor judgment. He owes you a new JP trigger because he has now ruined this one.
Next time install the trigger yourself. It is easy on an AR15.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I know he took some metal off the trigger when he installed it, and I hope he didn't ruin the trigger in the process. </div></div>
Your smith has poor judgment. He owes you a new JP trigger because he has now ruined this one.
Next time install the trigger yourself. It is easy on an AR15.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
It's highly unlikely that the temper was changed if it was just filed or stoned....but if it was put on a grinder, that is a whole 'nuther story.
Tempering is more than a surface treatment.
Removing metal must be done prudently though, once it's taken off you can't put it back very easily.
It's obvious something isn't right....but what that is is impossible to say without the thing in my near vicinity
I'd say you owe him a visit to make things right.
It's highly unlikely that the temper was changed if it was just filed or stoned....but if it was put on a grinder, that is a whole 'nuther story.
Tempering is more than a surface treatment.
Removing metal must be done prudently though, once it's taken off you can't put it back very easily.
It's obvious something isn't right....but what that is is impossible to say without the thing in my near vicinity
I'd say you owe him a visit to make things right.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
I don't run the JP triggers any longer (moved to Geiselle triggers mostly), but I have installed several of them in my rifles and for friends in the past and NEVER removed any material from the trigger to get them installed and functioning properly.
I am not going to pass judgment on your smith or his abilities, but if it were me, I'd go back to him and get him to pony up a new JP trigger for you. He owes you that much for being too lazy or too "set in his ways" to read the plain and simple directions on installing the trigger. It ain't rocket science, but it does require patience and some time to get the trigger installed, adjusted and functioning 100%.
I don't run the JP triggers any longer (moved to Geiselle triggers mostly), but I have installed several of them in my rifles and for friends in the past and NEVER removed any material from the trigger to get them installed and functioning properly.
I am not going to pass judgment on your smith or his abilities, but if it were me, I'd go back to him and get him to pony up a new JP trigger for you. He owes you that much for being too lazy or too "set in his ways" to read the plain and simple directions on installing the trigger. It ain't rocket science, but it does require patience and some time to get the trigger installed, adjusted and functioning 100%.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
The JP trigger is a little harder to install then most as per their instructions it might require the disconector to be ground to fit some do some don't . Correct follow thru is also an issue.Go to the JP site and download their instructions and follow their safty checks. If your trigger passes all the tests try shooting agian this time after you make the shot hold the trigger fully to the rear for a ten count then release .If it does not fire its you .If it does you can send your lower to JP and they will properly install it for a small fee and great turn around time.As somebody else already screwed with it I think it would be best JP unfuck it as they will pick out any altered parts with ease. Cheap insurence.
Scot
The JP trigger is a little harder to install then most as per their instructions it might require the disconector to be ground to fit some do some don't . Correct follow thru is also an issue.Go to the JP site and download their instructions and follow their safty checks. If your trigger passes all the tests try shooting agian this time after you make the shot hold the trigger fully to the rear for a ten count then release .If it does not fire its you .If it does you can send your lower to JP and they will properly install it for a small fee and great turn around time.As somebody else already screwed with it I think it would be best JP unfuck it as they will pick out any altered parts with ease. Cheap insurence.
Scot
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The JP trigger is a little harder to install then most as per their instructions it might require the disconector to be ground to fit some do some don't . Correct follow thru is also an issue.Go to the JP site and download their instructions and follow their safty checks. <span style="font-weight: bold">If your trigger passes all the tests try shooting agian this time after you make the shot hold the trigger fully to the rear for a ten count then release .If it does not fire its you .</span>If it does you can send your lower to JP and they will properly install it for a small fee and great turn around time.As somebody else already screwed with it I think it would be best JP unfuck it as they will pick out any altered parts with ease. Cheap insurence.
Scot </div></div>
Yup, I gave it this test when I went to the range. I tend to exaggerate my follow through anyway because I had a bad habit of slapping the trigger when I first learned to shoot. It would shoot off two rounds even when I held it to the rear deliberately. Ah well, looks like the dude owes me a new trigger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The JP trigger is a little harder to install then most as per their instructions it might require the disconector to be ground to fit some do some don't . Correct follow thru is also an issue.Go to the JP site and download their instructions and follow their safty checks. <span style="font-weight: bold">If your trigger passes all the tests try shooting agian this time after you make the shot hold the trigger fully to the rear for a ten count then release .If it does not fire its you .</span>If it does you can send your lower to JP and they will properly install it for a small fee and great turn around time.As somebody else already screwed with it I think it would be best JP unfuck it as they will pick out any altered parts with ease. Cheap insurence.
Scot </div></div>
Yup, I gave it this test when I went to the range. I tend to exaggerate my follow through anyway because I had a bad habit of slapping the trigger when I first learned to shoot. It would shoot off two rounds even when I held it to the rear deliberately. Ah well, looks like the dude owes me a new trigger.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
I would let JP install the new one or better yet make him replace it with a modular type and put it in yourself.
Scot
I would let JP install the new one or better yet make him replace it with a modular type and put it in yourself.
Scot
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would let JP install the new one or better yet make him replace it with a modular type and put it in yourself.
Scot </div></div>
I don't know that you need to go as far as letting JP install it for you, but I certainly wouldn't let your smith have another go at installing another expensive trigger unit at the risk of him f*&^ing it up again!
You have a couple options:
1) Install it yourself.
The triggers come with excellent directions and a CD video of the install, adjustment and testing processes. The install vids are available on JP's website as well. It isn't hard to do with basic tools and some time/patience. If you can assemble/disassemble a stripped lower, you can safely install this trigger...I promise!!
If you aren't comfortable doing the job yourself then you are left with either...
2) find another competent local smith OR send it off to JP.
JP will sell you a complete fire control kit, which they will install in your lower if you ship it to them, for $220. That covers the fire control unit and JP's time to install it, adjust it and test it for you. You'll pay them an addt'l $20-30 to ship it back to you via UPS/Fedex. So by the time you get done shipping it, paying for the trigger/install, and return shipping, you are looking at around $275 give or take.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would let JP install the new one or better yet make him replace it with a modular type and put it in yourself.
Scot </div></div>
I don't know that you need to go as far as letting JP install it for you, but I certainly wouldn't let your smith have another go at installing another expensive trigger unit at the risk of him f*&^ing it up again!
You have a couple options:
1) Install it yourself.
The triggers come with excellent directions and a CD video of the install, adjustment and testing processes. The install vids are available on JP's website as well. It isn't hard to do with basic tools and some time/patience. If you can assemble/disassemble a stripped lower, you can safely install this trigger...I promise!!
If you aren't comfortable doing the job yourself then you are left with either...
2) find another competent local smith OR send it off to JP.
JP will sell you a complete fire control kit, which they will install in your lower if you ship it to them, for $220. That covers the fire control unit and JP's time to install it, adjust it and test it for you. You'll pay them an addt'l $20-30 to ship it back to you via UPS/Fedex. So by the time you get done shipping it, paying for the trigger/install, and return shipping, you are looking at around $275 give or take.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you can assemble/disassemble a stripped lower, you can safely install this trigger...I promise!!
</div></div>
He is not kidding, heck, I daresay if you can clear a jam you can do this yourself. I installed my own JP adjustable myself, sitting in front of my computer with just the instructional CD they send, and a set of allen wrenches. It's so simple it's not even funny.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If you can assemble/disassemble a stripped lower, you can safely install this trigger...I promise!!
</div></div>
He is not kidding, heck, I daresay if you can clear a jam you can do this yourself. I installed my own JP adjustable myself, sitting in front of my computer with just the instructional CD they send, and a set of allen wrenches. It's so simple it's not even funny.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikee Booshay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the rifle can ( but normally won't)fire out of battery ie the bolt not fully locked.</div></div>
The firing pin won't stick out the bolt face until the bolt is locked on the AR system.
Trying to make a semi trigger with the geometry of the AR feel like a bolt gun trigger is not a good idea or really safe. Best to stick with preset drop in units or two stage triggers for the AR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mikee Booshay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the rifle can ( but normally won't)fire out of battery ie the bolt not fully locked.</div></div>
The firing pin won't stick out the bolt face until the bolt is locked on the AR system.
Trying to make a semi trigger with the geometry of the AR feel like a bolt gun trigger is not a good idea or really safe. Best to stick with preset drop in units or two stage triggers for the AR.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably you have inadequate aftertravel. If the sear was slipping, the disconnecter should hold it, but when the aftertravel is too litle... the bump fire happens </div></div>also too light of trigger and out time of disconnecter - damn them light triggers ...trouble in the making legal troubles too! watch your six hard!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably you have inadequate aftertravel. If the sear was slipping, the disconnecter should hold it, but when the aftertravel is too litle... the bump fire happens </div></div>also too light of trigger and out time of disconnecter - damn them light triggers ...trouble in the making legal troubles too! watch your six hard!
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
Well, I went down to the shop that installed the JP trigger today for them to take care of the issue. I was supposed to talk to the manager/gunsmith and yet when I kept trying to get a moment of his time, he was either on the phone or fiddling with shit on the counter. I ended up waiting for 30 minutes and didn't even get to talk to him because my wife was in the car and I got fed up with waiting.
Both his gunsmith-fu and his customer service are obviously shit. I've spent probably close to $1k there since I've been back on accessories, reloading supplies, ammo, etc. I won't be spending another damn dime.
Which brings me to the point of this rant. For all of you gundealers, custom builders, and accessory stores who put your customers first, I say thanks. Everyone one of us on the Hide have experienced the vast amount of shitty CS and QC that exists in the firearms business. I for one won't spend a dime with the shitty ones anymore, even if that means spending a little more to do business with a good outfit that appreciates customers.
Well, I went down to the shop that installed the JP trigger today for them to take care of the issue. I was supposed to talk to the manager/gunsmith and yet when I kept trying to get a moment of his time, he was either on the phone or fiddling with shit on the counter. I ended up waiting for 30 minutes and didn't even get to talk to him because my wife was in the car and I got fed up with waiting.
Both his gunsmith-fu and his customer service are obviously shit. I've spent probably close to $1k there since I've been back on accessories, reloading supplies, ammo, etc. I won't be spending another damn dime.
Which brings me to the point of this rant. For all of you gundealers, custom builders, and accessory stores who put your customers first, I say thanks. Everyone one of us on the Hide have experienced the vast amount of shitty CS and QC that exists in the firearms business. I for one won't spend a dime with the shitty ones anymore, even if that means spending a little more to do business with a good outfit that appreciates customers.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
If you don't mind, I'd like to know who the fellow is that treated you this way. I'm looking around @ various 'smiths in the state for future work to be done and would appreciate knowing who I should avoid trusting my weapons with. If you don't wish to make it public I'd still welcome a PM with info.
If you don't mind, I'd like to know who the fellow is that treated you this way. I'm looking around @ various 'smiths in the state for future work to be done and would appreciate knowing who I should avoid trusting my weapons with. If you don't wish to make it public I'd still welcome a PM with info.
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't mind, I'd like to know who the fellow is that treated you this way. I'm looking around @ various 'smiths in the state for future work to be done and would appreciate knowing who I should avoid trusting my weapons with. If you don't wish to make it public I'd still welcome a PM with info. </div></div>
PM sent
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt.Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't mind, I'd like to know who the fellow is that treated you this way. I'm looking around @ various 'smiths in the state for future work to be done and would appreciate knowing who I should avoid trusting my weapons with. If you don't wish to make it public I'd still welcome a PM with info. </div></div>
PM sent
Re: Serious trouble with AR-15
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RH4540</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guessing that there isn't enough sear engagement, coupled with the disconecter isn't set properly.
I don't know that I'd take it back to the same guy that screwed it up in the first place, because, he apparently doesn't know what he's doing. </div></div> set up maybe wrong, any single stage trigger pull lighter than 4 pounds is asking for troubles !crap like primers and bits/pieces jamming up the works can happen too..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RH4540</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guessing that there isn't enough sear engagement, coupled with the disconecter isn't set properly.
I don't know that I'd take it back to the same guy that screwed it up in the first place, because, he apparently doesn't know what he's doing. </div></div> set up maybe wrong, any single stage trigger pull lighter than 4 pounds is asking for troubles !crap like primers and bits/pieces jamming up the works can happen too..
