Seriously considering JP15 professional. Need input.

[19dsniper]

I am giving serious consideration to purchasing a JP15 professional thru the ready rifle program. This will be used as a duty weapon. I owned and have built MANY AR rifles in both the small Frame and large frame variety. The problem that I have is that I have never purchased a complete rifle from a manufacturer. I own a complete factory BCM lower and a factory BCM upper. The problem is that I finally shot out the barrel after about 6 years of training and classes. I have already replaced the barrel with a LaRue stealth barrel and it's back to shooting again.

The issue that I am having is that I want a complete factory gun, not one that I built or one that I've messed with, seeing how this is going to be a duty/patrol rifle. I want to remove any and all possible liability or issues legally or with the department.

So I am in the market for a really good factory gun that will be sub moa with the appropriate ammo. I know that 55 grain gold dot isn't going to net me sub moa groups, but if I feed it Mk262 or Soerra Gold Medal Match, I'm hoping for a solid sub moa rifle.


I already have some guns set up with white oak barrels, Bartlein, kreiger, etc. Guns that I built and that I know will shoot with the right ammo. The problem that I'm having is finding a gun that will allow me to keep really high expectations without being severely disappointed. I will be honest and say that if I make a $2,000 purchase and the gun only shoots 1 moa, I'm going to be disappointed. There are too many great shooting guns out there with as far as we have come in QC and metalworking.

Is the JP 15 professional a good duty rifle that will produce good, consistent, sub moa, 1/2 moa groups?

 

[RedRockCharlie]

Hi, I have a JP-15 Professional, purchased from JP's Ready Rifle Program. I have had ZERO issues with the gun, and it does shoot sub-MOA with high quality ammo. I liked the JP-15 so much, I ordered a CTR-02 built to my specs. It took six months for JP to build the CTR-02 but it too is an amazing rifle. Flawless...both of them. The only thing I've done to both JPs is that I've switched out the triggers for Trigger Techs, and the new triggers took them to the next level. Hope this helps. If you have any questions, give Dustin Helten a call. He'll patiently answer all of your questions. Here's Dustin's contact info:

Dustin Helten
Sales Manager
JP Enterprises, Inc.
(651) 426-9196, Ext 107

Good luck!

 

[ut755ln]

I am giving serious consideration to purchasing a JP15 professional thru the ready rifle program. This will be used as a duty weapon. I owned and have built MANY AR rifles in both the small Frame and large frame variety. The problem that I have is that I have never purchased a complete rifle from a manufacturer. I own a complete factory BCM lower and a factory BCM upper. The problem is that I finally shot out the barrel after about 6 years of training and classes. I have already replaced the barrel with a LaRue stealth barrel and it's back to shooting again.

The issue that I am having is that I want a complete factory gun, not one that I built or one that I've messed with, seeing how this is going to be a duty/patrol rifle. I want to remove any and all possible liability or issues legally or with the department.

So I am in the market for a really good factory gun that will be sub moa with the appropriate ammo. I know that 55 grain gold dot isn't going to net me sub moa groups, but if I feed it Mk262 or Soerra Gold Medal Match, I'm hoping for a solid sub moa rifle.


I already have some guns set up with white oak barrels, Bartlein, kreiger, etc. Guns that I built and that I know will shoot with the right ammo. The problem that I'm having is finding a gun that will allow me to keep really high expectations without being severely disappointed. I will be honest and say that if I make a $2,000 purchase and the gun only shoots 1 moa, I'm going to be disappointed. There are too many great shooting guns out there with as far as we have come in QC and metalworking.

Is the JP 15 professional a good duty rifle that will produce good, consistent, sub moa, 1/2 moa groups?

I love JP rifles but the ones I have shot I would not trust as a duty gun. I like proven milspec guns, honestly for duty all milspec and probably a little over gassed as well. I would prioritize rugged durability and reliability over accuracy.

 

[19dsniper]

I love JP rifles but the ones I have shot I would not trust as a duty gun. I like proven milspec guns, honestly for duty all milspec and probably a little over gassed as well. I would prioritize rugged durability and reliability over accuracy.

Serious question, I have have no personal experience with JP rifles. Are you saying that their Patrol Carbine is not a reliable weapon? I don't plan on getting a low mass bolt carrier or playing around with anything. I know I can tune the gas to the load, so in reality I can adjust it to be a little over gassed for my duty ammo if I wanted to.

Are the full mass bolt carriers less reliable than say another DI gun?

Thanks for the clarification. There is not a lot online about the patrol series rifles.

 

[hlee]

JP has a reputation as a "gamer gun" manufacturer. They incorporate non-milspec features. Some people take this as reduced reliability because they don't know what mil spec means. I've never read any reports of a JP owner regretting their purchase. That said, my only experience with JP is a single 6.5 Grendel barrel that has been fantastic.

 

[ut755ln]

Serious question, I have have no personal experience with JP rifles. Are you saying that their Patrol Carbine is not a reliable weapon? I don't plan on getting a low mass bolt carrier or playing around with anything. I know I can tune the gas to the load, so in reality I can adjust it to be a little over gassed for my duty ammo if I wanted to.

Are the full mass bolt carriers less reliable than say another DI gun?

Thanks for the clarification. There is not a lot online about the patrol series rifles.

I think they are fine. I kind of said it above but my priorities in rifles seem to be a little different than the norm on this forum. My JP was the nicest shooting AR I ever bought and I have said as much on this forum more than once. I prioritize reliability over accuracy, for a duty rifle I would stick with something that is milspec because you have billions of rounds down range.

My most reliable and rugged rifle is a 2010/11 DD MK18. By any measure, it is over gassed and the RIS 2 rail is heavy and the kind of violent action wears out parts more quickly but it feeds any ammunition I put through it and it always goes bang. I value this more than the gun being 1 MOA. You may have to deal with restrictions that I am unaware of when it comes to the rifle, for a duty rifle I would want 14.5" or less and I think the JP is 16? I also get flamed every once in a while for this but I do not like ambi anything because of the way I was trained to shoot. To me it is a trade off in that you add complication to your rifle but this can be overcome by you with training.

JP may very well be able to make you a rifle that is highly reliable and with superior accuracy. In all honesty I would be surprised if they couldn't. I am not shitting on JP, I own one. You said duty so I just shared my thoughts because duty means something different to me.

JP has a reputation as a "gamer gun" manufacturer. They incorporate non-milspec features. Some people take this as reduced reliability because they don't know what mil spec means. I've never read any reports of a JP owner regretting their purchase. That said, my only experience with JP is a single 6.5 Grendel barrel that has been fantastic.

I liked my JP rifle, with the adjustable gas feature I tuned it to a specific ammo and it was the softest shooting AR I had. If I put in lighter grain rounds, the rifle would sometimes not cycle properly. I also had the same issue when I put a suppressor on the rifle, but the fix was easy in that you just adjust the gas. Because of the tuning and the goal of accuracy and soft shooting, I would not trust it in adverse conditions. Going to a range and shooting paper, it was great. I realize the he said the JP 15 duty rifle in the ready rifle program.

Other JP gripes (very minor), it was kind of heavy for an AR. I did not like their proprietary hand guard and having to buy special parts from them to mount things. I think that JP sells three versions of the 15, the base rifle which is pretty close to milspec. The duty version which adds some of the things I think a rifle should come with standard like a QD attachment point and a one or two pieces or 2 inch pic rail. The third version is the custom order which is what I did.

 

[TimK]

I've had hit and miss accuracy from my JP rifles. I have one that's amazing, and three others that would not meet your requirement for accuracy. I've spent a ton of time doing load development for the three that weren't so hot, and never found a combination that worked. By contrast, I've had numerous barrels from White Oak and two spun up from Bartlein blanks. All those were very easy to develop a 1/2-3/4 minute load. I don't think my problems with the JP's were due to poor load development or an inability to shoot.

All have been extremely reliable, and I wouldn't hesitate to take any of them into the field as duty guns if I were a duty gun kind of guy. The JP that's amazing is probably the best AR I've owned. If I ever had to sell my stuff off, that'd be the last one I'd let go.

 

[AngryKoala]

I am giving serious consideration to purchasing a JP15 professional thru the ready rifle program. This will be used as a duty weapon. I owned and have built MANY AR rifles in both the small Frame and large frame variety. The problem that I have is that I have never purchased a complete rifle from a manufacturer. I own a complete factory BCM lower and a factory BCM upper. The problem is that I finally shot out the barrel after about 6 years of training and classes. I have already replaced the barrel with a LaRue stealth barrel and it's back to shooting again.

The issue that I am having is that I want a complete factory gun, not one that I built or one that I've messed with, seeing how this is going to be a duty/patrol rifle. I want to remove any and all possible liability or issues legally or with the department.

So I am in the market for a really good factory gun that will be sub moa with the appropriate ammo. I know that 55 grain gold dot isn't going to net me sub moa groups, but if I feed it Mk262 or Soerra Gold Medal Match, I'm hoping for a solid sub moa rifle.


I already have some guns set up with white oak barrels, Bartlein, kreiger, etc. Guns that I built and that I know will shoot with the right ammo. The problem that I'm having is finding a gun that will allow me to keep really high expectations without being severely disappointed. I will be honest and say that if I make a $2,000 purchase and the gun only shoots 1 moa, I'm going to be disappointed. There are too many great shooting guns out there with as far as we have come in QC and metalworking.

Is the JP 15 professional a good duty rifle that will produce good, consistent, sub moa, 1/2 moa groups?

I don't think you need to go with a JP to hit what you need. KAC, LMT, DD and to a lesser extent (combat proven) Geissele and few others can hit the precision requirement you are looking for with the right ammo.

I agree with the poster above, if it's a duty gun I would be more worried about reliability than precision. You've built ARs before so you should know what you like/don't like. Look at the features of the main commercial offerings and go from there.

 

[jcann]

I shoot a JP Professional and wouldn’t have an issue with it as a duty gun. I run 77 grain Sierra match ammo through it with excellent accuracy. I run it slightly over gassed but it’s still a soft shooter and extremely fast. It is a tad on the heavy side would be my only complaint.

Here it is with my daughters GMR15

 

[srt-4_uk]

One nice thing to consider when going with the JP

JP - WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK

 

[atomic41]

My son's department is switching over to JP but he doesn't have his yet. I'll get his thoughts on it after he gets it and does some range time.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I am giving serious consideration to purchasing a JP15 professional thru the ready rifle program. This will be used as a duty weapon. I owned and have built MANY AR rifles in both the small Frame and large frame variety. The problem that I have is that I have never purchased a complete rifle from a manufacturer. I own a complete factory BCM lower and a factory BCM upper. The problem is that I finally shot out the barrel after about 6 years of training and classes. I have already replaced the barrel with a LaRue stealth barrel and it's back to shooting again.

The issue that I am having is that I want a complete factory gun, not one that I built or one that I've messed with, seeing how this is going to be a duty/patrol rifle. I want to remove any and all possible liability or issues legally or with the department.

So I am in the market for a really good factory gun that will be sub moa with the appropriate ammo. I know that 55 grain gold dot isn't going to net me sub moa groups, but if I feed it Mk262 or Soerra Gold Medal Match, I'm hoping for a solid sub moa rifle.


I already have some guns set up with white oak barrels, Bartlein, kreiger, etc. Guns that I built and that I know will shoot with the right ammo. The problem that I'm having is finding a gun that will allow me to keep really high expectations without being severely disappointed. I will be honest and say that if I make a $2,000 purchase and the gun only shoots 1 moa, I'm going to be disappointed. There are too many great shooting guns out there with as far as we have come in QC and metalworking.

Is the JP 15 professional a good duty rifle that will produce good, consistent, sub moa, 1/2 moa groups?

I've had one for quite some time now. Never had a problem with mine. The accuracy is sub-moa. IMHO, they are in the top 3 of AR builders. You can't go wrong .

 

[ut755ln]

So it's reliable until it's not? Because it breaks itself?

Not really. For instance I had groups open up after 9k rounds. I just installed a new barrel and flash hider. I did not have a failure with the BCG but I replaced it at the same time.

On my JP, I did with the adjustable gas block I did exactly what they recommended and tuned the rifle for the ammo I was shooting. Over time, I tried different things and would have to adjust the gas in the gun. It seemed to me the trade off for the JP was a very specific setup in exchange for a very soft shooting AR.

The original post was about a duty rifle and my default answer and recommendation is something that is milspec or extremely close to milspec based on the billions of rounds fired down range.

 

[ut755ln]

If you want an over gassed rifle why not just open the gas up on the JP. Why are you blaming the gun for something that you did?

It seems like both guns are capable of the same thing

The MK18 was designed to be over gassed, they wanted it to fire and churn in adverse conditions. The JP that I bought had enough things different with it that I just don't trust it the same way.

 

[TimK]

What exactly does "designed to be over gassed" mean? Are you saying they beefed up some parts to deal with the extra force of the BCG moving rearward? I say overgassing your JP will get you exactly the same result.

That said, I DO wonder about the screw that adjusts most adjustable gas blocks. I've never had this happen, but it seems possible that over long usage it might get eroded away a bit leaving the gas setting a touch higher than what was set initially. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[ut755ln]

What exactly does "designed to be over gassed" mean? Are you saying they beefed up some parts to deal with the extra force of the BCG moving rearward? I say overgassing your JP will get you exactly the same result.

That said, I DO wonder about the screw that adjusts most adjustable gas blocks. I've never had this happen, but it seems possible that over long usage it might get eroded away a bit leaving the gas setting a touch higher than what was set initially. Pure speculation on my part.

It means with more pressure from expanding gas that it may cycle a wider range of ammunition and under less than ideal circumstances like dirt, sand, mud, ect. I also value proven systems with lots of real world data.

To your second point, I am not sure. When you add things to a system, you are by definition making it more complicated. In this case, it is a potential failure point not present in a milspec AR. On my particular JP rifle, there are a couple of difference from milspec including a different buffer system, a different barrel shape, an adjustable gas block, a lighter BCG, a proprietary muzzle device, a proprietary rail and a few other things. I like shooting the rifle, it just would not be my pick for a duty rifle.

 

[Milf Dots]

JP for a duty gun seems a surprising choice... I'm not sure too many would have JP in their top ten premium duty ARs list.

To name some, and in no particular order:

Geissele
DD
BCM
Colt
Barrett
LMT
LWRCi
Noveske
KAC
Seekins
Hodge Defense
ADM
Lancer Systems

 

[TonyTheTiger]

JP for a duty gun seems a surprising choice... I'm not sure too many would have JP in their top ten premium duty ARs list.

To name some, and in no particular order:

Geissele
DD
BCM
Colt
Barrett
LMT
LWRCi
Noveske
KAC
Seekins
Hodge Defense
ADM
Lancer Systems

Why? Both Seekins and Lancer Systems were known by competition shooters as builders of excellent game guns long before the rest of the world heard of them. No reason JP can't expand their target market.

 

[hlee]

Why? Both Seekins and Lancer Systems were known by competition shooters as builders of excellent game guns long before the rest of the world heard of them. No reason JP can't expand their target market.

“But, muh mil-spec…”

 

[Sogan]

Why? Both Seekins and Lancer Systems were known by competition shooters as builders of excellent game guns long before the rest of the world heard of them. No reason JP can't expand their target market.

I think they have tighter tolerances than most. Which is great for accuracy but sometimes not ideal for "duty use" if it needs to run dirty etc. Just a thought.

 

[19dsniper]

Thank you everyone for the comments and advice. I gave serious consideration to BCM which was always my favorite and is my current duty rifle. I also looked at the Danial Defense and the Geissele super duty. I was not impressed with the accuracy of the Geissele rifles that I have seen personally. One in particular was a very poor shooter even with FGMM in the 68 and 75 grain variety. Wouldn't shoot 77 TMK or a few others. Owner contacted Geissele and was told that they only guarantee something like 3 or 3.5 moa. I can't remember exactly. To me that is completely unacceptable. This rifle will be set up with a Razor 1-10 as a back up sniper/ dmr rifle. For its uses, it will he used as a precision rifle foremost. Not a "go to war" rifle. I have BCM and others for the absolutes in reliability. However, a well maintained rifle that shoots extremely well is what i am looking for.

Just as a follow up, I did go ahead and order the JP15 Professional, however I did make one change to their standard rifle. The Louisiana state police have moved to JP rifles and issue the Professional with a 13.5" pin and wd barrel. This is the exact setup that I went with. As soon as I get it in, I plan on doing a write up with pictures and results and making a new thread as I just can't find a whole lot of information on their duty rifles. If it's a seller performer, I want to get the word out. If it's shit.... well, people need to know that too.
I know that after paying what I did, that I WANT it to be a stellar performer, but if it's not, you better believe that everyone is going to hear the good, bad, and ugly.

 

[AngryKoala]

Thank you everyone for the comments and advice. I gave serious consideration to BCM which was always my favorite and is my current duty rifle. I also looked at the Danial Defense and the Geissele super duty. I was not impressed with the accuracy of the Geissele rifles that I have seen personally. One in particular was a very poor shooter even with FGMM in the 68 and 75 grain variety. Wouldn't shoot 77 TMK or a few others. Owner contacted Geissele and was told that they only guarantee something like 3 or 3.5 moa. I can't remember exactly. To me that is completely unacceptable. This rifle will be set up with a Razor 1-10 as a back up sniper/ dmr rifle. For its uses, it will he used as a precision rifle foremost. Not a "go to war" rifle. I have BCM and others for the absolutes in reliability. However, a well maintained rifle that shoots extremely well is what i am looking for.

Just as a follow up, I did go ahead and order the JP15 Professional, however I did make one change to their standard rifle. The Louisiana state police have moved to JP rifles and issue the Professional with a 13.5" pin and wd barrel. This is the exact setup that I went with. As soon as I get it in, I plan on doing a write up with pictures and results and making a new thread as I just can't find a whole lot of information on their duty rifles. If it's a seller performer, I want to get the word out. If it's shit.... well, people need to know that too.
I know that after paying what I did, that I WANT it to be a stellar performer, but if it's not, you better believe that everyone is going to hear the good, bad, and ugly.

Interesting, all of my Geisseles have been 1-1.5 MOA and I'm not even that good of a shooter. Congrats on the JP, I hope to order one of their large frame guns one day.

 

[Milf Dots]

This rifle will be set up with a Razor 1-10 as a back up sniper/ dmr rifle. For its uses, it will he used as a precision rifle foremost. Not a "go to war" rifle. I have BCM and others for the absolutes in reliability. However, a well maintained rifle that shoots extremely well is what i am looking for.

Just as a follow up, I did go ahead and order the JP15 Professional, however I did make one change to their standard rifle. The Louisiana state police have moved to JP rifles and issue the Professional with a 13.5" pin and wd barrel. This is the exact setup that I went with.

Sniper/DMR, but then a 13.5 inch barrel.

 

[ut755ln]

People could probably say the same thing of STI /Staccato and here they are pivoting to the law enforcement and defensive pistol market and have landed large contracts with national law enforcement agencies

I own two, a C2 and P Duo. They actually went looser in terms of tolerance in order to enhance reliability. My P with the Dawson comp is far and away my favorite pistol to shoot but it is significantly easier to break down and clean when compared to something like my Les Baer. If I were shooting smallest ragged hole it would be the Baer but for duty it would be the Staccato.

 

[TurboTrout]

Can’t go wrong with a JP, I have few and have been very happy with them.

 

[hlee]

Sniper/DMR, but then a 13.5 inch barrel.

LE sniper engagements are pretty close up affairs, all things considered. No LE sniper is shooting ridge to ridge.

 

[19dsniper]

Sniper/DMR, but then a 13.5 inch barrel.

There is nothing saying that you can not use a shorter barrel for precision work. In its role I will most likely be 100 yards or less. Hence the 1-10 and the shorter barrel. It's not intended to be a long range gun. If that was the case, I would go with a different caliber all together. This is primarily to be used as a semiautomatic weapon that can be employed as a defensive weapon while moving into position with the bolt gun, which me be in a treeline, or coukd be inside a structure. So j need it to be compact. Once there, Depending on the situation, it may serve a DMR type role. As such, it needs to be a precision weapon. If I wanted the highest in velocity, I would run a much longer barrel, but then that cuts down on not only mobility in and around buildings, But also in and out of a patrol car. This needs to be as close to a do all type rifle as possible. Yes, I would have preferred a little longer barrel, but on their 16" barrel, JP then adds a crazy 3" long flash hider or brake. That then puts me at 19 inches and that will not fit inside our rifle racks in our Dodge Chargers. Our racks were designed for 16 inch guns. Jp does not offer a 14.5 pin and weld, and the only way I could get a rifle that would fit in the rack is for them to do the 13.x Whatever it is, and then pin and weld to 16".

No. It's not ideal, but I'm trying to make it fit a specific size requirement while also giving me the best of both worlds if possible. It's always going to be a compromise with this specific task. If it was a dedicated entry gun I would go MK18 or 11.5 like I'm running now. If I never needed it for anything other than longer range sniper/dmr. Then I would just grab my OBR or M24.
It is what it is.

 

[ut755ln]

I have the same guns and I haven't noticed them being that much looser than my STI Eagle or Hex TAC.

Either way, you have to ask yourself. Does this concept of reliability not occur to Jon Paul? I mean he puts all that effort into redesigning so many aspects of the AR and then gets to the reliability question in a potential duty gun and just goes, "...meh, good enough is good enough". Does that sound likely? Like he would go full attention to detail in one direction and then pencil whip it in the other?

On the Les Baer, when I bought it they recommended breaking the pistol in before the first cleaning, I think it was something like 500 rounds. The Les was the first high end pistol I ever bought and previous experience and all been with various Colts. I started trying to get the slide off and the tolerances were so tight that I snapped the nylon bushing tool that came with the pistol. I found it was easier to pull off the slide and grab hold of the spring with my hand and let the tension out manually.

 

[hlee]

I bet a 3gun rifle get thrashed a lot harder than a LE duty rifle, on the regular…

 

[Constructor]

I bet a 3gun rifle get thrashed a lot harder than a LE duty rifle, on the regular…

Right, a 3gun event with a round count of 400 (rifle)will expose any problem areas.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I bet a 3gun rifle get thrashed a lot harder than a LE duty rifle, on the regular…

Definitely depends on the venue, but on average, I'd agree.

 

[UpSideDown]

Tolerance and clearance are very different things that are being misidentified in this thread.

 

[TurboTrout]

I bet a 3gun rifle get thrashed a lot harder than a LE duty rifle, on the regular…

Especially in uvalde PD, carried around, never fired, pointed at parents, only dropped once.

 

[jevan126]

I have 3 JP Rifles and you cannot go wrong with JP, they are 100% reliable and super accurate. As far as a go to Rifle, I don't think you can wrong with the Duty Rifle