I'm thinking about getting into service rifle competitions. I've been looking at the Rock River NM A4. What else is out there worth looking at? I'm mainly looking at 5.56 mostly because of the price vs. the 7.62/M1A.
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Service rifle competition suggestions
- Thread starter captnmo
- Start date
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I don't have any personal experience, but I hear the White Oak uppers are great! Not sure if it's better than a RRA NM A4 though...
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/index.htm
I've been toying with the idea too. I was thinking 5.56 for the same reason plus I have a few extra lowers laying around.
I don't have any personal experience, but I hear the White Oak uppers are great! Not sure if it's better than a RRA NM A4 though...
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/index.htm
I've been toying with the idea too. I was thinking 5.56 for the same reason plus I have a few extra lowers laying around.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
A Colt match H-bar is a good choice, the 1/7 cl barrel is accurate and you won’t shoot it out anytime soon, it will also handle the heavy 80gr bullets well. Add a service rifle free float tube, get some trigger work and you can be competitive. That’s what I shot with when I was involved in a league.
I know some will knock Colt's quality but I can assure you my blue label is built much better than any anything you can get thats been ground out for a grand these days.
The 7.62 is fun but I had started with a M1A supermatch and it was fun to shoot, but everyone that showed up with them got walked on by the 15s. We had a lot of Camp Perry guys at my club so that didnt help.
A Colt match H-bar is a good choice, the 1/7 cl barrel is accurate and you won’t shoot it out anytime soon, it will also handle the heavy 80gr bullets well. Add a service rifle free float tube, get some trigger work and you can be competitive. That’s what I shot with when I was involved in a league.
I know some will knock Colt's quality but I can assure you my blue label is built much better than any anything you can get thats been ground out for a grand these days.
The 7.62 is fun but I had started with a M1A supermatch and it was fun to shoot, but everyone that showed up with them got walked on by the 15s. We had a lot of Camp Perry guys at my club so that didnt help.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I have shot the RRA NM rifle and its a good one to start with, if you like it you can put some more time and effort into getting the best rifle around.
With the RRA or the WOA you will be competitive. I would also suggest a sub cal conversion to practice with 22.
First Strike products has some really good gear to get you going as well.
I have shot the RRA NM rifle and its a good one to start with, if you like it you can put some more time and effort into getting the best rifle around.
With the RRA or the WOA you will be competitive. I would also suggest a sub cal conversion to practice with 22.
First Strike products has some really good gear to get you going as well.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Get a RRA use the money you save to wear out the barrel,with the ammo you can reload, then worry about buying a better gun.
Get a RRA use the money you save to wear out the barrel,with the ammo you can reload, then worry about buying a better gun.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm mainly looking at 5.56 mostly because of the price vs. the 7.62/M1A. </div></div>
Speaking of the M1A and service rifle competition.
M14/M1A SAGE EBRs will soon be an accepted service rifle for competition at Camp Perry and NRA matches.
The stock is called something like Precision Match Rock Island/RIfle (PMRI).
I purchased mine form SEI, but I have not fired a single shot yet.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm mainly looking at 5.56 mostly because of the price vs. the 7.62/M1A. </div></div>
Speaking of the M1A and service rifle competition.
M14/M1A SAGE EBRs will soon be an accepted service rifle for competition at Camp Perry and NRA matches.
The stock is called something like Precision Match Rock Island/RIfle (PMRI).
I purchased mine form SEI, but I have not fired a single shot yet.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
First, no offense to the rest of my fellow Hide members, but this aint exactly the forum for asking about high power competition as there are only a few of us HP shooters on here. THE place to go for HP info is the National Match forum. As for which rifle, you definitely want to go AR. While I love my M1a's, I dont use them for HP except now and then when I want to fart around.
The go to set up for an AR for HP nowadays is the RRA lower/WOA upper combo. You will spend a buck or two more but you get a better upper. Usually made of teh stuff components but put together better and you can get the rear sight pinned.
As for Colt, anyone that recommends a Colt for HP use has never shot HP, or at least didnt shoot at a level that demonstrated the deficiencies of the Colt. Yeah, well made, but NOT suited for HP. I should know, as I started with one, as thats what I had, and realized real quickly it wasnt going to cut the mustard.
Here is what I recommend for any HP newbies...and I get to work with a good number of them. RRA stripped lower, RRA or equivalent lower parts kit, a Geissele trigger (or at least a RRA 2 stage if on a budget), and then a WOA standard upper, 1/4x1/4 rear sights and if you got $55 extra bucks, have it pinned.
Now, dont feed your race horse junk food, get some good oats. If you dump PMC 55 fmj in it, you get 1.5moa groups. Garbage in, garbage out. At least get some PRVI 75s, at a minimum, but realize they are only good for about 1moa, and better, some Nosler 2nds. For good bullets, use SMKs or Bergers.
The BEST thing you can do however is head out to a local match and hang out with some masters/high masters and get some info. Most are more than willing to help a newb get into the game.
John
First, no offense to the rest of my fellow Hide members, but this aint exactly the forum for asking about high power competition as there are only a few of us HP shooters on here. THE place to go for HP info is the National Match forum. As for which rifle, you definitely want to go AR. While I love my M1a's, I dont use them for HP except now and then when I want to fart around.
The go to set up for an AR for HP nowadays is the RRA lower/WOA upper combo. You will spend a buck or two more but you get a better upper. Usually made of teh stuff components but put together better and you can get the rear sight pinned.
As for Colt, anyone that recommends a Colt for HP use has never shot HP, or at least didnt shoot at a level that demonstrated the deficiencies of the Colt. Yeah, well made, but NOT suited for HP. I should know, as I started with one, as thats what I had, and realized real quickly it wasnt going to cut the mustard.
Here is what I recommend for any HP newbies...and I get to work with a good number of them. RRA stripped lower, RRA or equivalent lower parts kit, a Geissele trigger (or at least a RRA 2 stage if on a budget), and then a WOA standard upper, 1/4x1/4 rear sights and if you got $55 extra bucks, have it pinned.
Now, dont feed your race horse junk food, get some good oats. If you dump PMC 55 fmj in it, you get 1.5moa groups. Garbage in, garbage out. At least get some PRVI 75s, at a minimum, but realize they are only good for about 1moa, and better, some Nosler 2nds. For good bullets, use SMKs or Bergers.
The BEST thing you can do however is head out to a local match and hang out with some masters/high masters and get some info. Most are more than willing to help a newb get into the game.
John
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I wanted to get into shooting service rifle. I bought a White Oak Precision NM upper with a Krieger barrel and the pinned 1/4 MOA adjustment rear sight. I built a lower for it. It's a hell of a rifle.
I wanted to get into shooting service rifle. I bought a White Oak Precision NM upper with a Krieger barrel and the pinned 1/4 MOA adjustment rear sight. I built a lower for it. It's a hell of a rifle.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Go with the 5.56 on what ever stick you decide on. You're punching paper not stopping any threats. Remember it's shooting competition so the game is played the way its played. The 5.56 owns the Service Rifle game as it shoots quick at rapid fire 200 and 300. 200 off hand is a draw. The 600 with VLD bullets (80-75 grain) are quite capable of out shooting their 7.62 big brothers.
You'll also see more practice for the $ when reloading 77gr with 25.5 Varget or comparable loads Versus 168/175 gr and 43-44 grains of what ever powder. Plus 100 rounds of 5.56 practice vs 100 rounds of 7.62 your body will feel the difference
RR makes good stuff shoot it until you run your first barrel, get into the 700's change barrels and any other upgrades to make Master/High Master
Go with the 5.56 on what ever stick you decide on. You're punching paper not stopping any threats. Remember it's shooting competition so the game is played the way its played. The 5.56 owns the Service Rifle game as it shoots quick at rapid fire 200 and 300. 200 off hand is a draw. The 600 with VLD bullets (80-75 grain) are quite capable of out shooting their 7.62 big brothers.
You'll also see more practice for the $ when reloading 77gr with 25.5 Varget or comparable loads Versus 168/175 gr and 43-44 grains of what ever powder. Plus 100 rounds of 5.56 practice vs 100 rounds of 7.62 your body will feel the difference
RR makes good stuff shoot it until you run your first barrel, get into the 700's change barrels and any other upgrades to make Master/High Master
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Shoot one season with an RRA NM rifle and by then you will have learned what you want, need and how committed to the sport you are.
Out of the box (or used) they'll shoot well enough to learn the fundamentals on.
Shoot one season with an RRA NM rifle and by then you will have learned what you want, need and how committed to the sport you are.
Out of the box (or used) they'll shoot well enough to learn the fundamentals on.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
The suggestion for the Colt was for economy, hence the OPs concern about cost of ammo. You can pick up a barely used H bar for ~850 about a 500 savings after taxes over a new RR NM. That goes a long way to help pay for a shooting jacket, sling, mat, entry fees, spotting scope, and ammo to get started.
I did shoot enough matches with my stock H-Bar to make Expert, no great feat but it got my feet wet. I shot two matches a week plus a practice session consisting of 120 rounds per week. If I listened to the High Masters I would have been changing tubes every three months because that's when they “felt” like their Compass Lake barrels were starting to open up. At the time I wasn't that serious about it and didn't want to spend money on service rifle barrels. I personally didn't think my gun was holding me back, because my scores were still improving when I stopped competing.
This was my experience with service rifle, so I thought it would be helpful. And yes the RRA NM is a better choice but it does not mean you cant get into the game with something else.
The suggestion for the Colt was for economy, hence the OPs concern about cost of ammo. You can pick up a barely used H bar for ~850 about a 500 savings after taxes over a new RR NM. That goes a long way to help pay for a shooting jacket, sling, mat, entry fees, spotting scope, and ammo to get started.
I did shoot enough matches with my stock H-Bar to make Expert, no great feat but it got my feet wet. I shot two matches a week plus a practice session consisting of 120 rounds per week. If I listened to the High Masters I would have been changing tubes every three months because that's when they “felt” like their Compass Lake barrels were starting to open up. At the time I wasn't that serious about it and didn't want to spend money on service rifle barrels. I personally didn't think my gun was holding me back, because my scores were still improving when I stopped competing.
This was my experience with service rifle, so I thought it would be helpful. And yes the RRA NM is a better choice but it does not mean you cant get into the game with something else.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I built my own over time, if i were to do it all over again, i would get a compass lake and practice, practice, practice. it is a l;ot of fun and rewarding, make sure to buy the correct size coat.
I built my own over time, if i were to do it all over again, i would get a compass lake and practice, practice, practice. it is a l;ot of fun and rewarding, make sure to buy the correct size coat.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Great info! Glad to see there's a lot of info out on this.
This somehow brings me back to the 1:7 vs. the 1:8 twist barrel. Does it matter for competition shooting? Seriously, I'm not planning on getting my hands on any tracers so is the 1:7 necessary. I would like to shoot lighter stuff too, just not for competition. Do you lose any accuracy with an 8 twist out of a service rifle?
RRA does 8, WOA does 7. What's the deal?
Great info! Glad to see there's a lot of info out on this.
This somehow brings me back to the 1:7 vs. the 1:8 twist barrel. Does it matter for competition shooting? Seriously, I'm not planning on getting my hands on any tracers so is the 1:7 necessary. I would like to shoot lighter stuff too, just not for competition. Do you lose any accuracy with an 8 twist out of a service rifle?
RRA does 8, WOA does 7. What's the deal?
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I would just start with a pinned WOA upper and be done. If you decide HP is not for you, then you will have no problem selling it. Any standard fixed stock lower will do. When funds allow, a Geissele trigger is a good upgrade. I prefer 1/2x1/2 adjustments btw.
I would just start with a pinned WOA upper and be done. If you decide HP is not for you, then you will have no problem selling it. Any standard fixed stock lower will do. When funds allow, a Geissele trigger is a good upgrade. I prefer 1/2x1/2 adjustments btw.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info! Glad to see there's a lot of info out on this.
This somehow brings me back to the 1:7 vs. the 1:8 twist barrel. Does it matter for competition shooting? Seriously, I'm not planning on getting my hands on any tracers so is the 1:7 necessary. I would like to shoot lighter stuff too, just not for competition. Do you lose any accuracy with an 8 twist out of a service rifle?
RRA does 8, WOA does 7. What's the deal?</div></div>
My understanding is that 1:8 is pretty marginal for shooting the 90gr bullets if you want to shoot them, but that either should be fine for 80gr bullets.
Most of the really serious service rifle competitors I have talked to shoot single load (over magazine length) 80gr or 90gr loads for 600 yard prone.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info! Glad to see there's a lot of info out on this.
This somehow brings me back to the 1:7 vs. the 1:8 twist barrel. Does it matter for competition shooting? Seriously, I'm not planning on getting my hands on any tracers so is the 1:7 necessary. I would like to shoot lighter stuff too, just not for competition. Do you lose any accuracy with an 8 twist out of a service rifle?
RRA does 8, WOA does 7. What's the deal?</div></div>
My understanding is that 1:8 is pretty marginal for shooting the 90gr bullets if you want to shoot them, but that either should be fine for 80gr bullets.
Most of the really serious service rifle competitors I have talked to shoot single load (over magazine length) 80gr or 90gr loads for 600 yard prone.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Good to know. Sounds like the 1:7 is the way to go if you want to get the rifle to shoot the heavier accurate stuff. I like the 1:8 for shorter rifles for the sake of being able to shoot lighter rounds and make up for some of the lost velocity. But for competition, maybe stay with the heavier rounds.
Good to know. Sounds like the 1:7 is the way to go if you want to get the rifle to shoot the heavier accurate stuff. I like the 1:8 for shorter rifles for the sake of being able to shoot lighter rounds and make up for some of the lost velocity. But for competition, maybe stay with the heavier rounds.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
you really need either 1-7 or 1-8 for the 600 yds slow fire, everybody else will shoot the heavies and if you don't, there goes your score, if you are really serious about giving the other guys some competition get the right barrel.
you really need either 1-7 or 1-8 for the 600 yds slow fire, everybody else will shoot the heavies and if you don't, there goes your score, if you are really serious about giving the other guys some competition get the right barrel.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm mainly looking at 5.56 mostly because of the price vs. the 7.62/M1A. </div></div>
Speaking of the M1A and service rifle competition.
M14/M1A SAGE EBRs will soon be an accepted service rifle for competition at Camp Perry and NRA matches.
The stock is called something like Precision Match Rock Island/RIfle (PMRI).
I purchased mine form SEI, but I have not fired a single shot yet.
</div></div>
Would you give it a rest with this crap? Nobody is going to be shooting that thing in any kind of SR competition except maybe you. And if you do, you will get your ass handed to you by all kinds of folks shooting every kind of AR mentioned by everyone else in the thread.
To the OP - WOA CMP upper with pinned rear sight with any lower, any parts kit and a good trigger. The RRA NM triggers are good, if you start shooting a lot you'll probably end up with a Geisselle at some point - there is a difference. The WOP barrel is plenty good for SR competition. After you burn it out, you can step up to a Krieger or something else if you feel the need. 7 twist barrel is just fine, so is 8 twist. Personally, I like the 7's. Don't bother with 90 grain bullets, many have tried and most have given them up. 80smk's or 80 A-max will hammer at 600. The upper with pinned sight will cost you $750 - if you are really thrifty on your lower, you can get into this for not too much more than a new RRA NM rifle.
If your budget is really tight, the RRA is a good rifle for the money. You'll sometimes see them go for around $800 used. They were selling them at Camp Perry for $900 new, if I recall. The best SR shooter in MN(also a member here) legged out with a bone-stock one in 2 1/2 years. It took me just over 3 with my much-fancier rifle and gear, so it's more the indian than the arrow.
Anyways, I'd definitely encourage you to make the plunge. SR shooting is a great sport and IMHO, one of the best ways available to the average guy to really get a rock-solid foundation of shooting fundamentals. If you can shoot well with a sling and iron sights at 600 yards, you can learn to shoot well with anything.
As Mudcat mentioned, the National Match forum is a great resource for this kind of info - just stay away from the cat calling himself "Michael67" - you can thank me later......
Good luck,
Erik
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H2O MAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm mainly looking at 5.56 mostly because of the price vs. the 7.62/M1A. </div></div>
Speaking of the M1A and service rifle competition.
M14/M1A SAGE EBRs will soon be an accepted service rifle for competition at Camp Perry and NRA matches.
The stock is called something like Precision Match Rock Island/RIfle (PMRI).
I purchased mine form SEI, but I have not fired a single shot yet.
</div></div>
Would you give it a rest with this crap? Nobody is going to be shooting that thing in any kind of SR competition except maybe you. And if you do, you will get your ass handed to you by all kinds of folks shooting every kind of AR mentioned by everyone else in the thread.
To the OP - WOA CMP upper with pinned rear sight with any lower, any parts kit and a good trigger. The RRA NM triggers are good, if you start shooting a lot you'll probably end up with a Geisselle at some point - there is a difference. The WOP barrel is plenty good for SR competition. After you burn it out, you can step up to a Krieger or something else if you feel the need. 7 twist barrel is just fine, so is 8 twist. Personally, I like the 7's. Don't bother with 90 grain bullets, many have tried and most have given them up. 80smk's or 80 A-max will hammer at 600. The upper with pinned sight will cost you $750 - if you are really thrifty on your lower, you can get into this for not too much more than a new RRA NM rifle.
If your budget is really tight, the RRA is a good rifle for the money. You'll sometimes see them go for around $800 used. They were selling them at Camp Perry for $900 new, if I recall. The best SR shooter in MN(also a member here) legged out with a bone-stock one in 2 1/2 years. It took me just over 3 with my much-fancier rifle and gear, so it's more the indian than the arrow.
Anyways, I'd definitely encourage you to make the plunge. SR shooting is a great sport and IMHO, one of the best ways available to the average guy to really get a rock-solid foundation of shooting fundamentals. If you can shoot well with a sling and iron sights at 600 yards, you can learn to shoot well with anything.
As Mudcat mentioned, the National Match forum is a great resource for this kind of info - just stay away from the cat calling himself "Michael67" - you can thank me later......
Good luck,
Erik
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
it was also good to be single and an E-5
When you get your stick.......
Go to a match and talk w/ folks, unless you have a mentor already, in which case verify what he says.
In HP, position is everything. It builds accuracy and repeatability. PRACTICE!!!!!
Dry fire
Dry fire
DRY FIRE!!!!
Full gear, stand up, sit down, kneel, pray.
TAKE NOTES!!!!! on and off the range.
Notes about conditions,
notes about your position,
notes about your sling position,
notes about your POA vs POI in various positions
Shoot mags from the bench, some will have different POI depending on the load up.
Air rifles are wonderful for "Awfulhand" practice.
Hope that helps some.
Cheers,
Doc
Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
When you get your stick.......
Go to a match and talk w/ folks, unless you have a mentor already, in which case verify what he says.
In HP, position is everything. It builds accuracy and repeatability. PRACTICE!!!!!
Dry fire
Dry fire
DRY FIRE!!!!
Full gear, stand up, sit down, kneel, pray.
TAKE NOTES!!!!! on and off the range.
Notes about conditions,
notes about your position,
notes about your sling position,
notes about your POA vs POI in various positions
Shoot mags from the bench, some will have different POI depending on the load up.
Air rifles are wonderful for "Awfulhand" practice.
Hope that helps some.
Cheers,
Doc
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
White Oak or Compass Lake would be the two best places for uppers. As mentioned, go to a more appropriate forum for more informed responses. accurateshooter.com has a bunch of HP folks also.
White Oak or Compass Lake would be the two best places for uppers. As mentioned, go to a more appropriate forum for more informed responses. accurateshooter.com has a bunch of HP folks also.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I figured since they made the .308 AR legal for service rifle, you would start seeing a lot of guys going with that setup because of the better wind resistance with .308s. I guess it hasn't really turned out that way. Maybe it has to do with the recoil for the rapid fire stages... though it seems like a .308 AR doesn't have quite the muzzle jump of an M-14, since they have a straight-line stock. Maybe it's just that there is so much after-market for the .223s right now, and it will take a while for the manufacturers to catch up to the .308 version.
I figured since they made the .308 AR legal for service rifle, you would start seeing a lot of guys going with that setup because of the better wind resistance with .308s. I guess it hasn't really turned out that way. Maybe it has to do with the recoil for the rapid fire stages... though it seems like a .308 AR doesn't have quite the muzzle jump of an M-14, since they have a straight-line stock. Maybe it's just that there is so much after-market for the .223s right now, and it will take a while for the manufacturers to catch up to the .308 version.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
You can debate the AR this and that, but I started with a Model 70, in 308. You could go with a Rem. 700. You would be in match rifle class, but would be able to build a solid position, learn the game and get farther, score wise quicker in my opinion. If you decide to do F-Class instead, get a different stock, and put some glass on it. Just my .02.
You can debate the AR this and that, but I started with a Model 70, in 308. You could go with a Rem. 700. You would be in match rifle class, but would be able to build a solid position, learn the game and get farther, score wise quicker in my opinion. If you decide to do F-Class instead, get a different stock, and put some glass on it. Just my .02.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
You are way ahead to get a White Oak Armament upper and a RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.
Nothing wrong with the RRA, but you get a lot more for your money with the WOA upper. Better float tube, better rear sight with accurate clicks, correctly headspaced chamber, windage adjustable front site base, and an upper that has been zeroed at 100 yards when it comes out of the box.
You are way ahead to get a White Oak Armament upper and a RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.
Nothing wrong with the RRA, but you get a lot more for your money with the WOA upper. Better float tube, better rear sight with accurate clicks, correctly headspaced chamber, windage adjustable front site base, and an upper that has been zeroed at 100 yards when it comes out of the box.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: henschman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured since they made the .308 AR legal for service rifle, </div></div>
It is legal for NRA but not CMP competition. This is one really good reason people have not adopted it.
That and the 223 variant kicks its ass at the 200 and 300 yard line with marginal difference at 600.
They are starting to make inroads into Long Range Service Rifle shooting though where rapid fire and offhand shooting are not issues.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: henschman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured since they made the .308 AR legal for service rifle, </div></div>
It is legal for NRA but not CMP competition. This is one really good reason people have not adopted it.
That and the 223 variant kicks its ass at the 200 and 300 yard line with marginal difference at 600.
They are starting to make inroads into Long Range Service Rifle shooting though where rapid fire and offhand shooting are not issues.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.</div></div>
I don't think WOA does the trigger work any longer. Nor do they sell Krieger barreled uppers to average joes.
Bill Springfield does good trigger work.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.</div></div>
I don't think WOA does the trigger work any longer. Nor do they sell Krieger barreled uppers to average joes.
Bill Springfield does good trigger work.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dtarget</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.</div></div>
I don't think WOA does the trigger work any longer. Nor do they sell Krieger barreled uppers to average joes.
Bill Springfield does good trigger work.</div></div>
Can't say a thing about triggers but they sold me a krieger barreled upper six months ago and I am very much an average Joe (or even below-average) as far as white oak and service rifle competition are concerned. Of course, the paperwork said white oak precision not armament, and the pinned sight is included, not an option, but it is still John Holliger.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dtarget</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RRA lower with 2 stage trigger, then send the trigger to John Holliger to have him tune it for you.</div></div>
I don't think WOA does the trigger work any longer. Nor do they sell Krieger barreled uppers to average joes.
Bill Springfield does good trigger work.</div></div>
Can't say a thing about triggers but they sold me a krieger barreled upper six months ago and I am very much an average Joe (or even below-average) as far as white oak and service rifle competition are concerned. Of course, the paperwork said white oak precision not armament, and the pinned sight is included, not an option, but it is still John Holliger.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kingweb50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in a 5.56 service rifle. compass lake engineering is the way to go </div></div>
100% right
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kingweb50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in a 5.56 service rifle. compass lake engineering is the way to go </div></div>
100% right
John
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
maladat,
I tried to order one a year ago and was told no. Maybe things changed (or they just didn't want to sell me one...).
My guess is that they didn't want to waste a Krieger on a Novice shooter. I took the hint and went with the Pac-Nor.
I don't have any complaints with the Pac-Nor barrel, I was just looking forward to my first Krieger. Maybe when I shoot out the current barrel they will sell me a Krieger.
maladat,
I tried to order one a year ago and was told no. Maybe things changed (or they just didn't want to sell me one...).
My guess is that they didn't want to waste a Krieger on a Novice shooter. I took the hint and went with the Pac-Nor.
I don't have any complaints with the Pac-Nor barrel, I was just looking forward to my first Krieger. Maybe when I shoot out the current barrel they will sell me a Krieger.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I don't know what to tell you - maybe they were out of Krieger barrels or something.
I'm not new to shooting but when I bought my upper six months ago I had never shot in a service rifle match.
I don't know what to tell you - maybe they were out of Krieger barrels or something.
I'm not new to shooting but when I bought my upper six months ago I had never shot in a service rifle match.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I started high power rifle shooting at age 55 shortly after purchasing a SA M1A and Colt HBAR at a pawn shop . That was in 97. I started with the M1A and then switched to the HBAR. My first modification was to install a free float handguard. The next change was a Jewell trigger. I started out as a Marksman and ended up as an Expert using the HBAR.
I purchased a RRA NM4 with detachable handle and shortly thereafter sold the Colt.
Almost all of my competition has been at the short course - 100 yards.
Our next monthly match, feb 5th, is a 60 shot offhand course of fire. I will probably use my 1903A3 shooting cast bullets.
I started high power rifle shooting at age 55 shortly after purchasing a SA M1A and Colt HBAR at a pawn shop . That was in 97. I started with the M1A and then switched to the HBAR. My first modification was to install a free float handguard. The next change was a Jewell trigger. I started out as a Marksman and ended up as an Expert using the HBAR.
I purchased a RRA NM4 with detachable handle and shortly thereafter sold the Colt.
Almost all of my competition has been at the short course - 100 yards.
Our next monthly match, feb 5th, is a 60 shot offhand course of fire. I will probably use my 1903A3 shooting cast bullets.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Respectfully, I feel your money would be best spent on ammunition for practice and better quality bullets rather than a top quality upper. Learn the basics through practice and matches with burning up your first barrel. After this point, start looking at getting a better barrel if you are committed to service rifle shooting.
Respectfully, I feel your money would be best spent on ammunition for practice and better quality bullets rather than a top quality upper. Learn the basics through practice and matches with burning up your first barrel. After this point, start looking at getting a better barrel if you are committed to service rifle shooting.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
To the OP,
Call John at WOP and tell him you want one of his uppers. John does not sell lowers. As Mudcat NC said, feed that thing with good ammo. Don't fall into the trap "I am just starting, milsurp is good enough"
As a new HP shooter, may I suggest that you start from the bench till you shoot decent groups, like cleaning the short range target. Once you get the sight picture and shot execution correct, start with prone slow fire to train for the positions, progress into prone rapid fire, sitting, then standing. At home dry fire standing, if your schedule allows, at least 3 times a week. On the range practice prone and practice prone, it is the best avenue, the stediest position, to burn that picture into memory on what it takes to put one in the middle.
Don't forget at least half of the shots will be shot prone.
To the OP,
Call John at WOP and tell him you want one of his uppers. John does not sell lowers. As Mudcat NC said, feed that thing with good ammo. Don't fall into the trap "I am just starting, milsurp is good enough"
As a new HP shooter, may I suggest that you start from the bench till you shoot decent groups, like cleaning the short range target. Once you get the sight picture and shot execution correct, start with prone slow fire to train for the positions, progress into prone rapid fire, sitting, then standing. At home dry fire standing, if your schedule allows, at least 3 times a week. On the range practice prone and practice prone, it is the best avenue, the stediest position, to burn that picture into memory on what it takes to put one in the middle.
Don't forget at least half of the shots will be shot prone.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PolishHandgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a RRA NM4 with detachable handle and shortly thereafter sold the Colt.
</div></div>
My RRA was an A2, fixed carry handle. If the carry handle had been removable that rifle would still be in the safe. Very very accurate rifle.
If he can afford White Oak or Compass they are better though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PolishHandgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a RRA NM4 with detachable handle and shortly thereafter sold the Colt.
</div></div>
My RRA was an A2, fixed carry handle. If the carry handle had been removable that rifle would still be in the safe. Very very accurate rifle.
If he can afford White Oak or Compass they are better though.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
it was also good to be single and an E-5
Cheers,
Doc </div></div>
Ouch! Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Speaking of which, NOT being a single guy, getting a hall pass for this hobby will be the real challenge. It's hard enough as it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
Cheers,
Doc </div></div>
Ouch! Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Speaking of which, NOT being a single guy, getting a hall pass for this hobby will be the real challenge. It's hard enough as it is.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
it was also good to be single and an E-5
Cheers,
Doc </div></div>
Ouch! Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Speaking of which, NOT being a single guy, getting a hall pass for this hobby will be the real challenge. It's hard enough as it is. </div></div>
All of that stuff is nice to have, but not totally necessary. In addition to the obvious - rifle, ammo, mags, I'd say it's like this:
Must have to get started:
- Sling
- Glove
- Some sort of spotter
Extremely helpful:
- Coat - my scores went up 65 points when I got my first one
- Mat
- Score book
Nice to have:
- Cart
- HP scope stand
- Sight smoker
- a million other odds & ends....
Don't buy all of the extra stuff until you know you are going to use it. Not everybody takes to it and you wouldn't be the first guy to try it and decide it's not your thing. Shop used and go to local matches and ask around. Guys accumulate tons of stuff and most shooters have extra gear laying around that they'll sell or loan you. Guys in this sport are some of the nicest you'll ever meet and everyone is always happy to help new shooters. If you were in MN, I would help get you set up myself.
Just an FYI, there's a WOA SR upper for sale on the NM board right now for $650......
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17746
Good luck,
Erik
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Non withstanding all the various forms of AR's out there, do you have an idea about all the other "stuff" you will need to get the job done? Jacket, glove, sling, score book, single load mag, tuned magazines so your POI will be the same? Oh, spotting scope, stand, cart, stool etc.....
I started out in Highpower back in 1988 with an older NM M1A and w/o the cost of the rifle I was well over $10K by the next season (ammo included and I rolled my own). I did end up w/ some killer gear though
Cheers,
Doc </div></div>
Ouch! Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Speaking of which, NOT being a single guy, getting a hall pass for this hobby will be the real challenge. It's hard enough as it is. </div></div>
All of that stuff is nice to have, but not totally necessary. In addition to the obvious - rifle, ammo, mags, I'd say it's like this:
Must have to get started:
- Sling
- Glove
- Some sort of spotter
Extremely helpful:
- Coat - my scores went up 65 points when I got my first one
- Mat
- Score book
Nice to have:
- Cart
- HP scope stand
- Sight smoker
- a million other odds & ends....
Don't buy all of the extra stuff until you know you are going to use it. Not everybody takes to it and you wouldn't be the first guy to try it and decide it's not your thing. Shop used and go to local matches and ask around. Guys accumulate tons of stuff and most shooters have extra gear laying around that they'll sell or loan you. Guys in this sport are some of the nicest you'll ever meet and everyone is always happy to help new shooters. If you were in MN, I would help get you set up myself.
Just an FYI, there's a WOA SR upper for sale on the NM board right now for $650......
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17746
Good luck,
Erik
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I had an RRA NM A2 upper. From the bench, it would shoot sub-moa 3-shot groups at 100 yards with quality factory ammo. I was pleasantly surprised that this was possible for me using iron sights.
I had an RRA NM A2 upper. From the bench, it would shoot sub-moa 3-shot groups at 100 yards with quality factory ammo. I was pleasantly surprised that this was possible for me using iron sights.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
It doesnt take $10k to get into HP! Thats insane. Now, you can spend that kind of money, but you will be shooting a match rifle, probably have a spare one and all the goodies.
$1000 Rifle - a RRA/WOA combo will run you right around a grand, depending what trigger you go with and where you can get your lower
$200 - basic spotting scope and stand
$300 - Creedmoor Hardback - buy once, cry once
$50 - shooting mat. or use a piece of old carpet for $0
$50 - good sling
$25 - glove or $0 if you use your wife's oven mitt (seen it done)
$20 - good ammo for a match
$15 - match fees
Anything else is fluff that you can add along the way or when you have $$. HP is only expensive if you want to buy all the goodies.....still cheaper than golf, and a whole lot more fun!
It doesnt take $10k to get into HP! Thats insane. Now, you can spend that kind of money, but you will be shooting a match rifle, probably have a spare one and all the goodies.
$1000 Rifle - a RRA/WOA combo will run you right around a grand, depending what trigger you go with and where you can get your lower
$200 - basic spotting scope and stand
$300 - Creedmoor Hardback - buy once, cry once
$50 - shooting mat. or use a piece of old carpet for $0
$50 - good sling
$25 - glove or $0 if you use your wife's oven mitt (seen it done)
$20 - good ammo for a match
$15 - match fees
Anything else is fluff that you can add along the way or when you have $$. HP is only expensive if you want to buy all the goodies.....still cheaper than golf, and a whole lot more fun!
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dtarget</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maladat,
I tried to order one a year ago and was told no. Maybe things changed (or they just didn't want to sell me one...).
My guess is that they didn't want to waste a Krieger on a Novice shooter. I took the hint and went with the Pac-Nor.
I don't have any complaints with the Pac-Nor barrel, I was just looking forward to my first Krieger. Maybe when I shoot out the current barrel they will sell me a Krieger.
</div></div>
Dude, you need to watch what you say about others in a public forum. So far, nothing you have posted is accurate about White Oak.
I've been doing business with John for 14 years and consider him a good friend. He specifically does not play the Internet game because of people like you posting up supposition/distortion/misrepresentation of the truth.
If anyone wants more info about WOP/WOA, get on their web site, poke around, then give them a call.
Leo Ahearn.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dtarget</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maladat,
I tried to order one a year ago and was told no. Maybe things changed (or they just didn't want to sell me one...).
My guess is that they didn't want to waste a Krieger on a Novice shooter. I took the hint and went with the Pac-Nor.
I don't have any complaints with the Pac-Nor barrel, I was just looking forward to my first Krieger. Maybe when I shoot out the current barrel they will sell me a Krieger.
</div></div>
Dude, you need to watch what you say about others in a public forum. So far, nothing you have posted is accurate about White Oak.
I've been doing business with John for 14 years and consider him a good friend. He specifically does not play the Internet game because of people like you posting up supposition/distortion/misrepresentation of the truth.
If anyone wants more info about WOP/WOA, get on their web site, poke around, then give them a call.
Leo Ahearn.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Leo is on the mark, as usual. And, to add to what he said, I think (this is my opinion only) what John was probably doing was saving you some bucks as the PacNor and even his Wilson bbls will shoot just as well as the Kriegers. Personally, I have never run a Krieger in my ARs (have burned up plenty of them in my match and palma rifles though) as the Wilsons he sells shoot just as well at a fraction of the cost. If you look at what John is shooting on his personal rifle, you will find a Wilson bbl. I bet that Wilson has accounted for more than a few P100 tabs and EIC match wins...I know mine have.
John
Leo is on the mark, as usual. And, to add to what he said, I think (this is my opinion only) what John was probably doing was saving you some bucks as the PacNor and even his Wilson bbls will shoot just as well as the Kriegers. Personally, I have never run a Krieger in my ARs (have burned up plenty of them in my match and palma rifles though) as the Wilsons he sells shoot just as well at a fraction of the cost. If you look at what John is shooting on his personal rifle, you will find a Wilson bbl. I bet that Wilson has accounted for more than a few P100 tabs and EIC match wins...I know mine have.
John
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
9H and Mudcat,
I like WO and have been very happy with them. I got the same info that Mudcat posted when I called. When I got to asking about the barrel, I was asked if I was an existing customer then directed towards a different barrel. As I posted, it was good advice.
Maybe there was a shortage at the time. I did call WOA not WOP so perhaps that had something to do with it. I appogize for the negative tone of my post. FWIW it was not John that I spoke with on the phone.
Does WOA or WOP still modify RRA triggers.
9H and Mudcat,
I like WO and have been very happy with them. I got the same info that Mudcat posted when I called. When I got to asking about the barrel, I was asked if I was an existing customer then directed towards a different barrel. As I posted, it was good advice.
Maybe there was a shortage at the time. I did call WOA not WOP so perhaps that had something to do with it. I appogize for the negative tone of my post. FWIW it was not John that I spoke with on the phone.
Does WOA or WOP still modify RRA triggers.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
Message to John re: RRA trigger tuning
"John - did you stop offering this service? Leo."
Message back:
"We still do it, just don't advertise it.
Thank You
John Holliger
White Oak Armament
309-376-2288"
Message to John re: RRA trigger tuning
"John - did you stop offering this service? Leo."
Message back:
"We still do it, just don't advertise it.
Thank You
John Holliger
White Oak Armament
309-376-2288"
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
I started shooting service rifle several years ago. The rifle was the easiest equipment decision to make. I went with a WOA upper Wilson 1/7 and spent the extra $55 on the pinned site. I shoot 77 gr SMK over 23.5 gr R15 and it is a tack driver.
The lower doesn't matter much. Any lower with an A2 stock and some type of 2 stage trigger would do well (just make sure the weight is service rifle legal). RRA 2 stages are a good cheap option, Gieselle SSA or Service Rifle triggers being better but more money. Lots use the RRA lower because you can buy it set up with the A2 stock and 2 stage trigger installed. Then just drop the WOA upper on top and you are ready to go.
I know people who start with RRA NM uppers and they shoot very well. When they rebarrel they will have to have the rear site pinned anyway so I felt it better off just getting the upper set up from the get go. Like someone said above, probably a little bit of a better bang for the buck with the WOA upper than the RRA, but the RRA NM A2 with a lower with a RRA 2 stage trigger is certainly a fine starting rifle for service rifle shooting.
As far as CLE uppers, they are good to go. I had CLE barrel my SAM-R with a Krieger barrel last year. Very good service. For a beginner service rifle shooter I think the WOA Wilson 1/7 upper with the pinned rear site is a bit of a better bargain. I believe John Hollinger has the barrels on those uppers turned by CLE anway. http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-faq.htm IMHO it is priced to get new SR shooters into the sport.
Hopefully you reload already.
I started shooting service rifle several years ago. The rifle was the easiest equipment decision to make. I went with a WOA upper Wilson 1/7 and spent the extra $55 on the pinned site. I shoot 77 gr SMK over 23.5 gr R15 and it is a tack driver.
The lower doesn't matter much. Any lower with an A2 stock and some type of 2 stage trigger would do well (just make sure the weight is service rifle legal). RRA 2 stages are a good cheap option, Gieselle SSA or Service Rifle triggers being better but more money. Lots use the RRA lower because you can buy it set up with the A2 stock and 2 stage trigger installed. Then just drop the WOA upper on top and you are ready to go.
I know people who start with RRA NM uppers and they shoot very well. When they rebarrel they will have to have the rear site pinned anyway so I felt it better off just getting the upper set up from the get go. Like someone said above, probably a little bit of a better bang for the buck with the WOA upper than the RRA, but the RRA NM A2 with a lower with a RRA 2 stage trigger is certainly a fine starting rifle for service rifle shooting.
As far as CLE uppers, they are good to go. I had CLE barrel my SAM-R with a Krieger barrel last year. Very good service. For a beginner service rifle shooter I think the WOA Wilson 1/7 upper with the pinned rear site is a bit of a better bargain. I believe John Hollinger has the barrels on those uppers turned by CLE anway. http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-faq.htm IMHO it is priced to get new SR shooters into the sport.
Hopefully you reload already.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
And to be clear, the stardard WOA upper with the 1/7 Wilson is all ANYONE needs, be they a newb or a HighMaster. I started with a RRA NM upper, went HM, DR and P100 with it, but when I got my second one, I realized QC wasnt as tight as it was on the first (rear sight was 3 revolutions off and you cant adjust the front sight like you can on the WOA) and you wont have a QC issue with WOA stuff.
The WOA standard wilson 1/7 pinned is all anyone needs and for the price, compared to what else is out there, is a bargain. You wont sell your used RRA for any % near what you can recoup out of your WOA if you decide you dont like the sport.
John
And to be clear, the stardard WOA upper with the 1/7 Wilson is all ANYONE needs, be they a newb or a HighMaster. I started with a RRA NM upper, went HM, DR and P100 with it, but when I got my second one, I realized QC wasnt as tight as it was on the first (rear sight was 3 revolutions off and you cant adjust the front sight like you can on the WOA) and you wont have a QC issue with WOA stuff.
The WOA standard wilson 1/7 pinned is all anyone needs and for the price, compared to what else is out there, is a bargain. You wont sell your used RRA for any % near what you can recoup out of your WOA if you decide you dont like the sport.
John
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
As the others have said, go 5.56/223.
Build your own rifle & spend the money you saved on scope/jacket/ammo/practice. Go detatch carry handle so you can use it for both NM and scoped hunting. No one has mentioned this barrel yet, but they are either Wilson barrels or made from Wilson blanks. When I bought mine they were $175, but the current price is still a deal. <span style="font-weight: bold">LOVES</span> the Hornady 75gr BTHP match bullets on top of IMR-4895. I can't say enough about these barrels.
Starting out, you don't need a Krieger barrel, free float tube, pinned 1/4 rear sight, or 2-stage trigger (though send the stock trigger to B.Springfield if it's really bad and most of them are). Starting out, you need to handload, optimize that load for the rig, and practice.
You can easily put together a very good rifle for <$800 that'll flat out shoot you. Shoot for a year, then you can start adding stuff like the float tube, better trigger and pinned rear sight when you're good enough to need it. If you decide service rifle comp is not for you, stick a bi-pod and a scope on it and you'll have a heck of a varmint gun.
As the others have said, go 5.56/223.
Build your own rifle & spend the money you saved on scope/jacket/ammo/practice. Go detatch carry handle so you can use it for both NM and scoped hunting. No one has mentioned this barrel yet, but they are either Wilson barrels or made from Wilson blanks. When I bought mine they were $175, but the current price is still a deal. <span style="font-weight: bold">LOVES</span> the Hornady 75gr BTHP match bullets on top of IMR-4895. I can't say enough about these barrels.
Starting out, you don't need a Krieger barrel, free float tube, pinned 1/4 rear sight, or 2-stage trigger (though send the stock trigger to B.Springfield if it's really bad and most of them are). Starting out, you need to handload, optimize that load for the rig, and practice.
You can easily put together a very good rifle for <$800 that'll flat out shoot you. Shoot for a year, then you can start adding stuff like the float tube, better trigger and pinned rear sight when you're good enough to need it. If you decide service rifle comp is not for you, stick a bi-pod and a scope on it and you'll have a heck of a varmint gun.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Build your own rifle & spend the money you saved on scope/jacket/ammo/practice....Go detatch carry handle so you can use it for both NM and scoped hunting....You can easily put together a very good rifle for <$800 that'll flat out shoot you....If you decide service rifle comp is not for you, stick a bi-pod and a scope on it and you'll have a heck of a varmint gun. </div></div>
I'm looking at the WOA and they don't seem to have the detach carry handle. I would like the detach carry handle and RRA seems to be the only I can find that does that.
Please tell me what you suggest to get this thing under $800. Because my math isn't working for that. I can't find just a blank upper to add a barrel on. So it's either get the whole set or buy a RRA lower and upper which comes out about the same. Or get the WOA upper but it doesn't have the A4 top.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tullius</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Build your own rifle & spend the money you saved on scope/jacket/ammo/practice....Go detatch carry handle so you can use it for both NM and scoped hunting....You can easily put together a very good rifle for <$800 that'll flat out shoot you....If you decide service rifle comp is not for you, stick a bi-pod and a scope on it and you'll have a heck of a varmint gun. </div></div>
I'm looking at the WOA and they don't seem to have the detach carry handle. I would like the detach carry handle and RRA seems to be the only I can find that does that.
Please tell me what you suggest to get this thing under $800. Because my math isn't working for that. I can't find just a blank upper to add a barrel on. So it's either get the whole set or buy a RRA lower and upper which comes out about the same. Or get the WOA upper but it doesn't have the A4 top.
Re: Service rifle competition suggestions
My rifle team got a team buy deal on the Rock River NM a few years ago at Camp Perry. Mine will run neck and neck with both of my Bushmaster DCM and Fulton Armory Mirage w/ a Krieger bbl. Go with the RRA for this season and upgrade the trigger when you can.
My rifle team got a team buy deal on the Rock River NM a few years ago at Camp Perry. Mine will run neck and neck with both of my Bushmaster DCM and Fulton Armory Mirage w/ a Krieger bbl. Go with the RRA for this season and upgrade the trigger when you can.
