Service rifle competition suggestions

[sinister]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

Lots of excellent advice here.

captnmo, I'm guessing by your handle and address you are active duty. You can try to shoot both the All-Army Championships (in March) and the Navy West Matches (in early May) down at Camp Pendleton.

At the All-Army everyone shoots in helmet and web gear with arms-room guns (either your own or issued there at Benning). At the fleet matches you can shoot your National Match Course / Camp Perry hot-rod AR.

Prep for the military matches by shooting Washington Rifle and Pistol Association Matches (at Tacoma Rifle and Revolver and Paul Bunyan) and perhaps some National Guard Matches (via the State Marksmanship Coordinator at Camp Murray).

My National Match Course (AR) rifles are all Frankenguns. The common theme is the best barrel you can afford; good, repeatable, and consistent (pinned) rear sight; a good float tube; and a good trigger (the Geissele trigger can't be beat unless you can find a Milazzo-Krieger MKII made of unobtanium).

The rifle has to be assembled by a guy who knows what the hell he's doing -- Frank White and John Holliger are both national match shooters (Frank not-so-much any more since he's been purely building guns the last ten years or so, but John still shoots and wins).

Good luck -- it's a lot of fun.

 

[Zanshin]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm looking at the WOA and they don't seem to have the detach carry handle. I would like the detach carry handle and RRA seems to be the only I can find that does that. </div></div>

WOA uppers have A2 style receivers. While A4 uppers are now CMP legal serious HP shooters shoot A2 uppers. Detachable A4 carry handles have issues returning to zero. You could never remove the carry handle, but then what is the point of going with an A4 upper. There were also issues with the amount of adjustment in the rear site on the detachable handle.

If you want a dedicated HP upper go with a standard A2 upper. I disagree with those telling you to get some general purpose A4 with a detachable handle. Get the purpose build A2 from WOA. If you don't end up sticking with HP then sell it. Don't buy something in between that really isn't optimal for HP, and not really optimal for a varmint upper (wrong tube wrong twist), and not really optimal for a modern tactical upper (wrong float tube/handguard).

Buy once cry once.

 

[Erud]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zanshin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm looking at the WOA and they don't seem to have the detach carry handle. I would like the detach carry handle and RRA seems to be the only I can find that does that. </div></div>

WOA uppers have A2 style receivers. While A4 uppers are now CMP legal serious HP shooters shoot A2 uppers. Detachable A4 carry handles have issues returning to zero. You could never remove the carry handle, but then what is the point of going with an A4 upper. There were also issues with the amount of adjustment in the rear site on the detachable handle.

If you want a dedicated HP upper go with a standard A2 upper. I disagree with those telling you to get some general purpose A4 with a detachable handle. Get the purpose build A2 from WOA. If you don't end up sticking with HP then sell it. Don't buy something in between that really isn't optimal for HP, and not really optimal for a varmint upper (wrong tube wrong twist), and not really optimal for a modern tactical upper (wrong float tube/handguard).

Buy once cry once.
</div></div>

This is good advice. If you want to shoot HP, get a HP rifle. A WOA or CLE upper will hold it's value pretty well anyways, so if you decide you don't like it, you won't lose too much cash re-selling it. Just think of it as a "rental fee"....

 

[captnmo]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

I'm actually National Guard, but I do work full-time at Fort Lewis.

I'm having this debate with myself about the A2 vs. A4 issue. I realize the A4 would have issues returning to zero, but since I've not been into HP competitions before, the temptation is there. Good advice.

I did email John and he told me he does build the A4 upper as well. So it is an option.

 

[DZelenka]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

The Army Marksmanship Unit has gone to A4 uppers. This was done because the most time consuming work on the upper is pinning the rear sights. With the removable carry handle, all you have to do is remove it and put it on a new upper.

I too endorse White Oak uppers. I have 3 of John's service rifle uppers and a match rifle. The service rifles have been re barreled 2 or 3 times each and I have used Shilen, Pac-Nor, Krieger and Wilson barrels on them. Accuracy for all has been great. 1/2 MOA ten shot groups are the norm. Talk to John and tell him what you are looking for. Listen to his advice. He will likely steer you to the WOA Wilsons because they work AND save you money. They are what he uses. I went Distinguished with one.

A note on RRA NM rifles: I have quite a bit experience with the RRA NM rifles. I have 16 of them because I run the state junior team and also have the state association rifles. Fully one third of them have had QC problems that have needed correction by our armorer. Because of my involvement with these programs, I am asked about equipment on almost a daily basis (unfortunately not an exaggeration). My standard recommendation is any quality lower with a RRA NM trigger tuned by Holliger if you are on a budget or a Geissele if you can afford it. And buy a WOA upper with pinned rear sight. I never hear of issues with these rifles. Generally, they are zeroed to within a click or two. When I get an upper from John, the first time I shoot it is typically at a match. They are match ready.

For the rest of the stuff, try to buy used if you can't afford new. There are deals to be had.

Does anyone know what the most expensive part of highpower is?

Gasoline. Unless you have a range in your back yard, travel is where you will spend most of your money. Ammunition is next. Equipment is not a real cost because you can get most of your money out of it if you buy quality.

By the way, Mudcat and 9H know what they are talking about. You should listen to them.

Dan

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

I started HP in 1977. Got Dist. with the M1A. After I retired from the Guard I got out for a while. Started up again and saw I missed the train. Everyone had gone to ARs. You're not going to be competitive with the M1A against these young whippersnappers using ARs. I say this as a huge fan of the M1A and I have a damn good one.

I asked around and the people who were winning seemed to favor the White Oak Upper so thats where I went. I don't know about hte rest, but in dealing with John at WO, I really doubt you'll find any better service. I just don't see how he could be beat in that department.

As far other equipment you can work up to that, the exception is the score book.

NEVER SHOOT HIGH POWER OR ANY OTHER RIFLE (or pistol for that matter) WITHOUT SOME SORT OF SCORE/DATA BOOK. Learn to use it. Write down everything. Write down every change you make and the results of that change. It dosn't have to be fancy, a simple notebook will do or down load sheets from the internet.

The two most valable things in High Power (or any other rifle shooting) are the least expensive, that being the score book and dry firing.

One thin I would highly recommend is going to the CMP Bookstore and buying the USAMU Service Rifle Guide for $6.95.

When you do deside to get a shooting jacket/coat make sure you get one that's much larger then you normally wear. Get one that will allow you to wear at least two sweatshirts under the jacket.

But excluding the score book, don't start buying stuff until you fire a few matches to see what you really need. High Power shooters are great people and more then willing to help out new shooters. They will loan you what you need, then after a while you'll see what you need.

If possible, contact your local state rifle assn. and see if they put on High Power or CMP GSM Clinics. They are low cost, (some don't charge at all, or if they do it will be reasonable. I don't charge for the clinics I provide unless they want me (CMP) to provide the ammo. In the clinics I put on, I do have the Service Rifle Guide listed above for sale at cost. It's optional but after people see it they buy.

I also don't buy the ideal of "I'm gonna practice and learn to shoot before I attend any matches". Jump right in and start shooting right away. Many clubs have loaner rifles for new shooters so you don't have to wait until you get your rifle.

Again DRY FIRE. Work with your postitions. This can be done in the comfort of your living room.

What's gonna get you (and everyone else) is the wind. The best way to learn to judge wind is get involved in a team match and score for the best team out there. As a scorer you have to set right next to the coach to compare scores. Liston as he calls out changes. Watch the scope constantily. Notice the changes and what the coach calls. Mentaly make calls and compair them to what the coach calls and see what happens on the target frame.

Even when not shooting, set behind the line with a score where you can see several target frames. Whats what the condition changes does to the spotters.

HP doen't have to be a big money game. You can learn a lot with out spending anything buy just watching, dry firing and don't forget the Score book.

AND WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING.

 

[sinister]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

AMEN, BROTHER.

 

[nmmi9100]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

I suggest what I use...A Compass Lake Engineering flattop upper. Kriger Stainless 1:7.7 twist for 77 SMKs across the course.

You don't have to have all the coat and crap to start off. But you really do need an angled eyepiece spotter. You can do fine with a GI sling too. Don't have to have a Turner 1907, although most folks do.

Good luck clearing this with the Mrs.

-David
Edgewood, NM

 

[tullius]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

kraig's advice on the books is worth its weight in gold.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captnmo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please tell me what you suggest to get this thing under $800. Because my math isn't working for that. I can't find just a blank upper to add a barrel on. So it's either get the whole set or buy a RRA lower and upper which comes out about the same. Or get the WOA upper but it doesn't have the A4 top. </div></div>
Sent ya a pm.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zanshin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
While A4 uppers are now CMP legal serious HP shooters shoot A2 uppers. Detachable A4 carry handles have issues returning to zero. You could never remove the carry handle, but then what is the point of going with an A4 upper. There were also issues with the amount of adjustment in the rear site on the detachable handle.

If you want a dedicated HP upper go with a standard A2 upper. I disagree with those telling you to get some general purpose A4 with a detachable handle. Get the purpose build A2 from WOA. If you don't end up sticking with HP then sell it. Don't buy something in between that really isn't optimal for HP, and not really optimal for a varmint upper (wrong tube wrong twist), and not really optimal for a modern tactical upper (wrong float tube/handguard).</div></div>

Not true at all, I haven't had any problems with the A4 going back to zero, and you can't beat a 1/8 barrel with 75 grainers for varmint.


And beware that sinister fellow, he don't know nuttin' bout service rifle.

 

[tulsakid]

Re: Service rifle competition suggestions

I have shot the AR in service rifle competition for year. The White Oak Armament (White Oak Precision) is the way to go. Make sure you get the double pinned rear sight for the extra $55. John Hollinger builds an excellent gun at a very reasonable price. He will be more than willing to walk you thru the process. Also would recommend the Geissele NM trigger - non better. Get a Turner NM Sling and you are good to go! Not only is does John build an excellent rifle he is an excellent shooter also. He shoots what he builds.