I am new to this site and unable to navigate it very well. I am about to start prepring for competition. I am very over wellmed. I would like to know what type of training is good for service rifle comps. Also the basic equipment mite be needed. I was thinking about buying a Compass Lake Engineering ar 15 what is anyone elses opinion on this. And any other basic advice for a novice stepping in over his head
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service rifle competitions
- Thread starter bubba24
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Re: service rifle competitions
PM "Sterling Shooter", He knows all there is to know about that discipline. No $hit.
PM "Sterling Shooter", He knows all there is to know about that discipline. No $hit.
Re: service rifle competitions
Register and lurk/post here: http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/
Best place on the WWW to learn about NRA Highpower Rifle
Register and lurk/post here: http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/
Best place on the WWW to learn about NRA Highpower Rifle
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huba bubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am new to this site and unable to navigate it very well. I am about to start prepring for competition. I am very over wellmed. I would like to know what type of training is good for service rifle comps. Also the basic equipment mite be needed. I was thinking about buying a Compass Lake Engineering ar 15 what is anyone elses opinion on this. And any other basic advice for a novice stepping in over his head</div></div>
Contact your state rifle and pistol association. They are likely the CMP/NRA affiliate in your area, authorized by HP's governing bodies to host competitions. Ask about entering an M1 Garand Clinic. Participation in a clinic will give you a taste for it all, as well as alleviate your anxiety about the matter. This may be the only preparation you need to enter into competition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huba bubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am new to this site and unable to navigate it very well. I am about to start prepring for competition. I am very over wellmed. I would like to know what type of training is good for service rifle comps. Also the basic equipment mite be needed. I was thinking about buying a Compass Lake Engineering ar 15 what is anyone elses opinion on this. And any other basic advice for a novice stepping in over his head</div></div>
Contact your state rifle and pistol association. They are likely the CMP/NRA affiliate in your area, authorized by HP's governing bodies to host competitions. Ask about entering an M1 Garand Clinic. Participation in a clinic will give you a taste for it all, as well as alleviate your anxiety about the matter. This may be the only preparation you need to enter into competition.
Re: service rifle competitions
I used to shoot service rifle.
You need a GOOD shooting jacket to start. ( don't even attempt shooting service rifle without a good shooting jacket ).
You will need a good spotting scope and stand made for this. You will need a good mat, A shooting stool, a log book, a carbide lamp ( to dull your iron sights ).... that may get you started. Obviously, you need a rifle with a military sling.
A good place to start looking for equipment like scopes and shooting jackets: http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Shooting_Apparel-249.aspx
Sterling Shooter's advice is good as always... M1 Garand clinic would be the best way to get started but, the above list will need to be had to get serious about this discipline of shooting.
I used to shoot service rifle.
You need a GOOD shooting jacket to start. ( don't even attempt shooting service rifle without a good shooting jacket ).
You will need a good spotting scope and stand made for this. You will need a good mat, A shooting stool, a log book, a carbide lamp ( to dull your iron sights ).... that may get you started. Obviously, you need a rifle with a military sling.
A good place to start looking for equipment like scopes and shooting jackets: http://www.champchoice.com/cat-Shooting_Apparel-249.aspx
Sterling Shooter's advice is good as always... M1 Garand clinic would be the best way to get started but, the above list will need to be had to get serious about this discipline of shooting.
Re: service rifle competitions
Where are you located? Finish filling out your profile. Join the NRA if you haven't and subscribe to their mag Shooting Sports USA, that will help alot.
Where are you located? Finish filling out your profile. Join the NRA if you haven't and subscribe to their mag Shooting Sports USA, that will help alot.
Re: service rifle competitions
If you want to learn position shooting from scratch, as it that used in highpower, you could do a lot worse than going to an Appleseed Marksmanship clinic. I'm sure there's one near you in the coming couple weeks. You can shoot the whole thing with a 22LR and one brick of ammo. www.appleseedinfo.org.
Appleseed teaches you the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship from the same 3 positions used in highpower (Service Rifle)...standing, sitting, and prone. Only difference is Appleseed uses a sling in standing which you can't in highpower. But everything else transfers.
My Service Rifle is a Compass Lake Engineering with a Krieger 1:7.7 twist for shooting 77 SMKs across the course.
If you want to start out on the cheap, the way to go is to get a Service-Grade HRA M1 Garand from CMP for $595 and start shooting Garand matches.
And I would argue that you don't need a fancy coat, stool, or other equipment to get started in Service Rifle. You just need a shooting mat, spotting scope, a rifle, and ammo. It's only after you get your fundamental skills honed that you actually need a good coat, and then only to add a few points to your standing scores. Course most of these matches are decided by a couple points or a couple X's.
-David
Edgewood, NM
If you want to learn position shooting from scratch, as it that used in highpower, you could do a lot worse than going to an Appleseed Marksmanship clinic. I'm sure there's one near you in the coming couple weeks. You can shoot the whole thing with a 22LR and one brick of ammo. www.appleseedinfo.org.
Appleseed teaches you the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship from the same 3 positions used in highpower (Service Rifle)...standing, sitting, and prone. Only difference is Appleseed uses a sling in standing which you can't in highpower. But everything else transfers.
My Service Rifle is a Compass Lake Engineering with a Krieger 1:7.7 twist for shooting 77 SMKs across the course.
If you want to start out on the cheap, the way to go is to get a Service-Grade HRA M1 Garand from CMP for $595 and start shooting Garand matches.
And I would argue that you don't need a fancy coat, stool, or other equipment to get started in Service Rifle. You just need a shooting mat, spotting scope, a rifle, and ammo. It's only after you get your fundamental skills honed that you actually need a good coat, and then only to add a few points to your standing scores. Course most of these matches are decided by a couple points or a couple X's.
-David
Edgewood, NM
Re: service rifle competitions
If you are just starting out (or even an experienced HP shooter) invest $6.95 in this book from the CMP/AMU.........Service Rifle Marksmanship Guide, put out by the best shooters in the world.
https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/c...note5=&max=
In addition to what SS said about contacting the NRA, check out CMP-GSM shooting clinics. Though they are designed for Vintage Military Rifle Shooting, they also allow modern militry rifles (service rifle). The marksmanship principles of GSM and HP are the same.
Check here for clinics in your area, (more will be added as the shooting season approaches).
http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC
If you are just starting out (or even an experienced HP shooter) invest $6.95 in this book from the CMP/AMU.........Service Rifle Marksmanship Guide, put out by the best shooters in the world.
https://estore.odcmp.com/store/catalog/c...note5=&max=
In addition to what SS said about contacting the NRA, check out CMP-GSM shooting clinics. Though they are designed for Vintage Military Rifle Shooting, they also allow modern militry rifles (service rifle). The marksmanship principles of GSM and HP are the same.
Check here for clinics in your area, (more will be added as the shooting season approaches).
http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchUpcomingSearch.cgi?designation=CLINIC
Re: service rifle competitions
Not much I can add as the guys pretty much got it covered. You dont need anything fancy to get started, just show up. Dont waste years of good eyesight but sitting around debating it. Find someone local that shoots HP and get them to help get you started. I routinely get new folks started by loaning them equipment, even rifles. Its up to them to go further, if they want, but within the HP world, anyone that wants to get started can find assistance, especially jrs.
You dont need a coat to shoot a match, you dont need a mat to shoot a match...about the only thing you REALLY need is a rifle and ammo and a sling. Everything else is just a plus. I have seen guys show up with binocs at matches cause they dont have a spotting scope yet.
But get out there and shoot, thats the idea...and its fun as heck!
John
Not much I can add as the guys pretty much got it covered. You dont need anything fancy to get started, just show up. Dont waste years of good eyesight but sitting around debating it. Find someone local that shoots HP and get them to help get you started. I routinely get new folks started by loaning them equipment, even rifles. Its up to them to go further, if they want, but within the HP world, anyone that wants to get started can find assistance, especially jrs.
You dont need a coat to shoot a match, you dont need a mat to shoot a match...about the only thing you REALLY need is a rifle and ammo and a sling. Everything else is just a plus. I have seen guys show up with binocs at matches cause they dont have a spotting scope yet.
But get out there and shoot, thats the idea...and its fun as heck!
John
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But get out there and shoot, thats the idea...and its fun as heck!</div></div>
Best advice so far.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But get out there and shoot, thats the idea...and its fun as heck!</div></div>
Best advice so far.
Re: service rifle competitions
what would the difference be between a m1 garand style rifle over an AR 15, as far as competition goes. I know that buying and handloading amo will be more expensive for the 308. But what other types of advantages or disadvantages be for one over the other
what would the difference be between a m1 garand style rifle over an AR 15, as far as competition goes. I know that buying and handloading amo will be more expensive for the 308. But what other types of advantages or disadvantages be for one over the other
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huba bubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would the difference be between a m1 garand style rifle over an AR 15, as far as competition goes. I know that buying and handloading amo will be more expensive for the 308. But what other types of advantages or disadvantages be for one over the other</div></div>
The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2, which has been match conditioned, or internally modified to deliver better performance than possible from a rack grade rifle.
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huba bubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would the difference be between a m1 garand style rifle over an AR 15, as far as competition goes. I know that buying and handloading amo will be more expensive for the 308. But what other types of advantages or disadvantages be for one over the other</div></div>
The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2, which has been match conditioned, or internally modified to deliver better performance than possible from a rack grade rifle.
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types.
Re: service rifle competitions
The usrileteam site is the best site to learn about SR. I only used a shooting coat one time during a match. Wow it was like cheating. I truly mean cheating. At that point I knew why everyone had one on. Other than that a good log book and plenty of ammo. The key to shooting SR is shooting. Practice then practice more. I shot a whole summer with pull down M-193 for SR. It shot about .5 to .75moa. Even at 600 the only concern I had was wind. At the end of the summer on the last match of the year I went back to the 69 and 80gr SMK. The wind was not any concern to me. I was locked on for wind. I did over crank right away but setelled down by the the first record shots.
The usrileteam site is the best site to learn about SR. I only used a shooting coat one time during a match. Wow it was like cheating. I truly mean cheating. At that point I knew why everyone had one on. Other than that a good log book and plenty of ammo. The key to shooting SR is shooting. Practice then practice more. I shot a whole summer with pull down M-193 for SR. It shot about .5 to .75moa. Even at 600 the only concern I had was wind. At the end of the summer on the last match of the year I went back to the 69 and 80gr SMK. The wind was not any concern to me. I was locked on for wind. I did over crank right away but setelled down by the the first record shots.
Re: service rifle competitions
Yep, you don't need a jacket unless you plan on competing with everyone there. LOL
The plain truth is that you need certain gear if you plan on being part of the event. ( in any real way )
You don't need to show up with one for your first or second match but, you will soon find yourself getting a good shooting jacket and spotting scope. After that, the rest just makes things easier... The stool will hold everything for you including your rifle etc. etc.
I was answering the OP's question on what would be needed. ( even if not the first day )
There isn't anyone here that can tell me that you can compete in SR successfully without a shooting jacket. It's just not a possibility. ( I used to shoot SR... I was on the Louisiana State Jr. team for 6yrs at Camp Perry ) I've NEVER seen anyone, other than at a CMP ( or DCM in my day ) event, show up to a match without one.
I'd say the same thing as others have said, however... just show up... shooters are a great bunch and particularly SR folks. You will be made to feel welcome.
Yep, you don't need a jacket unless you plan on competing with everyone there. LOL
The plain truth is that you need certain gear if you plan on being part of the event. ( in any real way )
You don't need to show up with one for your first or second match but, you will soon find yourself getting a good shooting jacket and spotting scope. After that, the rest just makes things easier... The stool will hold everything for you including your rifle etc. etc.
I was answering the OP's question on what would be needed. ( even if not the first day )
There isn't anyone here that can tell me that you can compete in SR successfully without a shooting jacket. It's just not a possibility. ( I used to shoot SR... I was on the Louisiana State Jr. team for 6yrs at Camp Perry ) I've NEVER seen anyone, other than at a CMP ( or DCM in my day ) event, show up to a match without one.
I'd say the same thing as others have said, however... just show up... shooters are a great bunch and particularly SR folks. You will be made to feel welcome.
Re: service rifle competitions
OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,(9) magazines, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. Of, course, you'll likely need a cleaning kit, and hand-loading equipment/components too.
For someone just getting into it, without the aid of a mentor, coming to an understanding of rules/range procedures, and the proper way to use equipment can be a daunting task. Then, there's learning how to use the sling and build solid positions for across the course. It's enough to make anyone, who's not really fanatical about it, to just change their mind about it, since it appears to be an ordeal. Yet, for those who do pursue it, Service Rifle competition is a facinating route to becoming an extraordinary marksman, which has been the whole idea since 1894 when this competition came about.
OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,(9) magazines, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. Of, course, you'll likely need a cleaning kit, and hand-loading equipment/components too.
For someone just getting into it, without the aid of a mentor, coming to an understanding of rules/range procedures, and the proper way to use equipment can be a daunting task. Then, there's learning how to use the sling and build solid positions for across the course. It's enough to make anyone, who's not really fanatical about it, to just change their mind about it, since it appears to be an ordeal. Yet, for those who do pursue it, Service Rifle competition is a facinating route to becoming an extraordinary marksman, which has been the whole idea since 1894 when this competition came about.
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">(9) magazines</span></span>, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. </div></div>
Really?
LOL!!! However did I get along with just three or four?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">(9) magazines</span></span>, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. </div></div>
Really?
LOL!!! However did I get along with just three or four?
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">(9) magazines</span></span>, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. </div></div>
Really?
LOL!!! However did I get along with just three or four?</div></div>
9 mags allow loading for all stages of an 88 round event before the event. This provides the shooter with an opportunity in prep period to concentrate on process without unneeded distraction. Of course, you could get by with less, but, folks always ask me how many, so tell em 9 for the reason stated. And, why not, the cost of 9 mags is miniscule. You can buy em as the budget allows.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
Service Rifle shooting essentials, for most, include: rifle, sling, mat,<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">(9) magazines</span></span>, score book, CMP/NRA rule books, pens, jacket, glove, stool, ammunition, safety glasses, hearing protection, spotting scope, and scope stand. </div></div>
Really?
LOL!!! However did I get along with just three or four?</div></div>
9 mags allow loading for all stages of an 88 round event before the event. This provides the shooter with an opportunity in prep period to concentrate on process without unneeded distraction. Of course, you could get by with less, but, folks always ask me how many, so tell em 9 for the reason stated. And, why not, the cost of 9 mags is miniscule. You can buy em as the budget allows.
Re: service rifle competitions
Sorry, hope this isn't too off topic... Sterling, when I was shooting the course it was with my M1A Super Match and all courses were 50 rounds + spotter shots ( back in the 80s ): 10 shot string at 200yds offhand, then 10 shot string standing/sitting rapid at 200yds, then standing to prone 10rounds at 300yds rapid then, 20 rounds prone at 600yds.
What course has you shooting 88? ( I just don't know and, it's been forever since I've shot any SR. I still have all my gear and, I do get into it and shoot it from time to time, however.
Back to the OP:
I will say this... shooting this discipline of competition, you WILL learn the fundamentals that most never learn. You WILL learn natural point of aim and, you WILL learn trigger discipline... you WILL learn how to plant your face in the SAME spot on the rifle every time and, you WILL learn how to break the shot exactly when you mean to... and you'll do it with a 4.5lb trigger.
It's nothing like shooting off a bipod and bag with a 1lb trigger. You'll have to have your shit together to make the points. Not to say anything bad about shooting off a bipod but, it's just a way different thing than shooting a positional match. Shooting off a bipod is all about having sound equipment and doping the wind while having basic fundamentals. Shooting SR is mostly about fundamentals and wind is involved as well.
Some other advice as Sterling started to say... find yourself a mentor. There are a TON of things that you'll never know unless you're VERY astute and spend a lot of time at this.... for example... when the light changes, you have to change your sights since the way your eyes perceive the target will shift with the light... stuff like keeping your bullets out of the sun.... lots of stuff like that. A mentor will help you with all of this.... as well as reading the wind.
Sorry, hope this isn't too off topic... Sterling, when I was shooting the course it was with my M1A Super Match and all courses were 50 rounds + spotter shots ( back in the 80s ): 10 shot string at 200yds offhand, then 10 shot string standing/sitting rapid at 200yds, then standing to prone 10rounds at 300yds rapid then, 20 rounds prone at 600yds.
What course has you shooting 88? ( I just don't know and, it's been forever since I've shot any SR. I still have all my gear and, I do get into it and shoot it from time to time, however.
Back to the OP:
I will say this... shooting this discipline of competition, you WILL learn the fundamentals that most never learn. You WILL learn natural point of aim and, you WILL learn trigger discipline... you WILL learn how to plant your face in the SAME spot on the rifle every time and, you WILL learn how to break the shot exactly when you mean to... and you'll do it with a 4.5lb trigger.
It's nothing like shooting off a bipod and bag with a 1lb trigger. You'll have to have your shit together to make the points. Not to say anything bad about shooting off a bipod but, it's just a way different thing than shooting a positional match. Shooting off a bipod is all about having sound equipment and doping the wind while having basic fundamentals. Shooting SR is mostly about fundamentals and wind is involved as well.
Some other advice as Sterling started to say... find yourself a mentor. There are a TON of things that you'll never know unless you're VERY astute and spend a lot of time at this.... for example... when the light changes, you have to change your sights since the way your eyes perceive the target will shift with the light... stuff like keeping your bullets out of the sun.... lots of stuff like that. A mentor will help you with all of this.... as well as reading the wind.
Re: service rifle competitions
The regional championship course of fire is 80 shots for record with 2 sighters at each stage of the match. The National Match course of fire is 50 shots with no sighters, though it can be shot with sighters as well if you submit it that way to the NRA.
Back in the 90s the local reduced clubs in IN shot the NRA 50 shot with sighters course. Around here in CO, for the most part we see NRA Approved 80 shot with sighter matches both reduced and full course.
The CMP sanctioned EIC matches follow the no sighter National Match 50 shot course of fire. Prior to the CMP taking over EIC matches from the NRA, the date of which I am not certain of, you would have shot no sighter EIC matches sanctioned by the NRA.
A lot of clubs shoot NRA/CMP-"like" matches that are not sanctioned by either organization. This gives them the flexibility to do about whatever they want, including just using the big target for all stages.
I ran the non-sanctioned reduced 200 yard matches at a local club for 3 years. We would do a 1 hour sighting in period from 8-9a. The match was a 50 shot no-sighter match from there. For NM modified rifles we'd use the 3 different targets for the 4 stages; for as-issued rifles we'd run the big target for all stages. This better simulates the appropriate types of shooting - National Match competition as well as CMP Games as-issued competition.
If you still have that old M1A, dust it off, find the match schedules locally, and go run some ammo through it!!
The regional championship course of fire is 80 shots for record with 2 sighters at each stage of the match. The National Match course of fire is 50 shots with no sighters, though it can be shot with sighters as well if you submit it that way to the NRA.
Back in the 90s the local reduced clubs in IN shot the NRA 50 shot with sighters course. Around here in CO, for the most part we see NRA Approved 80 shot with sighter matches both reduced and full course.
The CMP sanctioned EIC matches follow the no sighter National Match 50 shot course of fire. Prior to the CMP taking over EIC matches from the NRA, the date of which I am not certain of, you would have shot no sighter EIC matches sanctioned by the NRA.
A lot of clubs shoot NRA/CMP-"like" matches that are not sanctioned by either organization. This gives them the flexibility to do about whatever they want, including just using the big target for all stages.
I ran the non-sanctioned reduced 200 yard matches at a local club for 3 years. We would do a 1 hour sighting in period from 8-9a. The match was a 50 shot no-sighter match from there. For NM modified rifles we'd use the 3 different targets for the 4 stages; for as-issued rifles we'd run the big target for all stages. This better simulates the appropriate types of shooting - National Match competition as well as CMP Games as-issued competition.
If you still have that old M1A, dust it off, find the match schedules locally, and go run some ammo through it!!
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you still have that old M1A, dust it off, find the match schedules locally, and go run some ammo through it!! </div></div>
LOL, I still have everything! Even my old Unertl 24x spotting scope and freeland stand! LOL Last year, I found my old shooting stool ( with log books and shooting glove still in it ) along with my old carbide lamp, stick em' stuff and everything but my old mat.
I even found several cans of DCM issued M852 and some old M118 match that DCM issued to the State Jr. teams for next year's national matches. I found, in addition to that about 4000 rounds of M72 30-06 too but, I no longer have my old M1 Garand.
I've been sitting on all the 7.62 but, I have been shooting the rifle.... I've just been loading my own for it.
I know there are matches in Texas but, I don't think any close to Dallas.
Hell, I may have to dust the old stuff off.... Lord knows I've tried just about every shooting sport there is at one time or another... I was pretty good at this one when I did it.
It's been quite a bit of fun for me in the last couple of years to sit back with my 300wm at the 1000yd line and shoot at 4" skeet on the berm. My old ass eyes work better through a 22x scope than the old irons anymore!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you still have that old M1A, dust it off, find the match schedules locally, and go run some ammo through it!! </div></div>
LOL, I still have everything! Even my old Unertl 24x spotting scope and freeland stand! LOL Last year, I found my old shooting stool ( with log books and shooting glove still in it ) along with my old carbide lamp, stick em' stuff and everything but my old mat.
I even found several cans of DCM issued M852 and some old M118 match that DCM issued to the State Jr. teams for next year's national matches. I found, in addition to that about 4000 rounds of M72 30-06 too but, I no longer have my old M1 Garand.
I've been sitting on all the 7.62 but, I have been shooting the rifle.... I've just been loading my own for it.
I know there are matches in Texas but, I don't think any close to Dallas.
Hell, I may have to dust the old stuff off.... Lord knows I've tried just about every shooting sport there is at one time or another... I was pretty good at this one when I did it.
It's been quite a bit of fun for me in the last couple of years to sit back with my 300wm at the 1000yd line and shoot at 4" skeet on the berm. My old ass eyes work better through a 22x scope than the old irons anymore!!!
Re: service rifle competitions
Looks like these guys runs a reduced match not too far from Dallas.
http://www.tr-pc.com/
Looks like these guys runs a reduced match not too far from Dallas.
http://www.tr-pc.com/
Re: service rifle competitions
jwoolf,
I think 9H answered your question. Also, I like your take on it all.
jwoolf,
I think 9H answered your question. Also, I like your take on it all.
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2,
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types. </div></div>
It's not a perception.
The AR15 requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS gunsmithing to make match ready than any other authorized rifle.
It produces SIGNIFCANTLY LESS recoil than any other authorized rifle.
It requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS maintenance to maintain its accuracy than any other authorized rifle.
The current state of the art in 5.56 match ammo negates any ballistic advantage that the other authorized might have had.
If the .30 caliber rifles were better, the Army and Marine teams would still use them. The Army team was forced to switch to the M16 by their CO back in 93. When the Army worked the bugs out of it, they proceeded to slap the Marines something silly in 94 and maybe 95 (can't remember well).
The the Marines got smart and dumped their M14s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2,
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types. </div></div>
It's not a perception.
The AR15 requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS gunsmithing to make match ready than any other authorized rifle.
It produces SIGNIFCANTLY LESS recoil than any other authorized rifle.
It requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS maintenance to maintain its accuracy than any other authorized rifle.
The current state of the art in 5.56 match ammo negates any ballistic advantage that the other authorized might have had.
If the .30 caliber rifles were better, the Army and Marine teams would still use them. The Army team was forced to switch to the M16 by their CO back in 93. When the Army worked the bugs out of it, they proceeded to slap the Marines something silly in 94 and maybe 95 (can't remember well).
The the Marines got smart and dumped their M14s.
Re: service rifle competitions
They are cheaper to put together and get accurate but, you do have to install a 1:7 twist and shoot heavy bullets to make the 600yd line.
If you were in the middle east right now, wanna guess which one you'd want then? ( just kiddin' with ya )
I guess the saying right now is, "shoot an AR or, get beat with one"
There is no doubt that an AR is easier to shoot than an M14 mostly because of recoil. They also are cheaper to maintain.
All that said, I still love my old SuperMatch but, if I were going to compete today, I'd have to buy an AR built for that purpose.
They are cheaper to put together and get accurate but, you do have to install a 1:7 twist and shoot heavy bullets to make the 600yd line.
If you were in the middle east right now, wanna guess which one you'd want then? ( just kiddin' with ya )
I guess the saying right now is, "shoot an AR or, get beat with one"
There is no doubt that an AR is easier to shoot than an M14 mostly because of recoil. They also are cheaper to maintain.
All that said, I still love my old SuperMatch but, if I were going to compete today, I'd have to buy an AR built for that purpose.
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2,
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types. </div></div>
It's not a perception.
The AR15 requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS gunsmithing to make match ready than any other authorized rifle.
It produces SIGNIFCANTLY LESS recoil than any other authorized rifle.
It requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS maintenance to maintain its accuracy than any other authorized rifle.
The current state of the art in 5.56 match ammo negates any ballistic advantage that the other authorized might have had.
If the .30 caliber rifles were better, the Army and Marine teams would still use them. The Army team was forced to switch to the M16 by their CO back in 93. When the Army worked the bugs out of it, they proceeded to slap the Marines something silly in 94 and maybe 95 (can't remember well).
The the Marines got smart and dumped their M14s.</div></div>
What you say is indeed fact, yet, I used the word perception since some are buying the rifle without any experience with one, so ,they actually are just perceiving it will get them a better result.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The prominent Service Rifle for CMP and NRA governed competitions today is the commercial equivalent of the M16A2,
This rifle is preferred over other authorized rifles, such as the M1A, since the majority of competitors perceive they can get better results with it than with other authorized types. </div></div>
It's not a perception.
The AR15 requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS gunsmithing to make match ready than any other authorized rifle.
It produces SIGNIFCANTLY LESS recoil than any other authorized rifle.
It requires SIGNIFICANTLY LESS maintenance to maintain its accuracy than any other authorized rifle.
The current state of the art in 5.56 match ammo negates any ballistic advantage that the other authorized might have had.
If the .30 caliber rifles were better, the Army and Marine teams would still use them. The Army team was forced to switch to the M16 by their CO back in 93. When the Army worked the bugs out of it, they proceeded to slap the Marines something silly in 94 and maybe 95 (can't remember well).
The the Marines got smart and dumped their M14s.</div></div>
What you say is indeed fact, yet, I used the word perception since some are buying the rifle without any experience with one, so ,they actually are just perceiving it will get them a better result.
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are cheaper to put together and get accurate but, you do have to install a 1:7 twist and shoot heavy bullets to make the 600yd line.
If you were in the middle east right now, wanna guess which one you'd want then? ( just kiddin' with ya )
</div></div>
Most quality ARs come with either 1/7 or 1/8 barrels. And besides, 1/7 is the military standard, so it's not like you're doing anything special.
If I was in Iraq, I'd take an Army SDM rifle or a Navy MK12 and a whole shitload of Mk262 ammo.
If I was in Afghashitstain, I'd take an M40A5.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are cheaper to put together and get accurate but, you do have to install a 1:7 twist and shoot heavy bullets to make the 600yd line.
If you were in the middle east right now, wanna guess which one you'd want then? ( just kiddin' with ya )
</div></div>
Most quality ARs come with either 1/7 or 1/8 barrels. And besides, 1/7 is the military standard, so it's not like you're doing anything special.
If I was in Iraq, I'd take an Army SDM rifle or a Navy MK12 and a whole shitload of Mk262 ammo.
If I was in Afghashitstain, I'd take an M40A5.
Re: service rifle competitions
I was one of those Hard Nose shooters who said there was no way the ARs could compete with the Match or Super Match M14/M1As. After all the harping I got a White Oak Service Rifle and found, YOU CAN TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS.
I started shooting High Power in 1977. I don't know if the NRA ever ran EIC matches, I believe it was always the DCM or CMP. The DCM use to furnish ammo for the leg matches, and charged a dollar to shoot them. All the EIC paper work had to be sent to the DCM/CMP and the Regional or State Championship paper work went to the NRA.
Back then you couldn't use ground mats and you had to load from the person, couldnt lay your extra mags on the ground. Even military matches had to send their EIC paper work to the DCM.
The Army ran the DCM and they were always understaffed, it took a while to get your points credited or your badge when you legged out. CMP is contracted to Civilians, they no longer get any tax payer funding. CMP funds all their programs via sales of surplus rifles, ammo, and such. They are much more effecient, now your points will beat you home from the match. Not to short the army, they did the best they could with the funds they had. When the DCM became CMP it made it a lot easier to sell or purchase surplus rifles. Use to be (when I got mine) an M1 was a once in a lifetime deal, now under CMP you are limited to 12 M1s a year.
I like the Garand/Springfield/Vintage Military CMP matches better then High Power now. It seems easier for the average person to get involved. You can be competitive with a $500 Garand or even a $100 Mosin instead of having to pay $1500 plus for a good quality AR simply because everyone has to use As Issued Military Rifles.
Even ammo, you can get surplus ammo from CMP cheaper then you can re-load it. I like the ideal of allowing anyone to shoot. To be competive in High Power has turned it into a rich mans game.
Not saying I'm giving up my Super Match M1A or WOA Service rifle, I'll keep shooting HP but throw most of my support to the CMP-GSM games (and now Vintage Sniper Rifle Matches).
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295, you can't even look at one for that price now.
I was one of those Hard Nose shooters who said there was no way the ARs could compete with the Match or Super Match M14/M1As. After all the harping I got a White Oak Service Rifle and found, YOU CAN TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS.
I started shooting High Power in 1977. I don't know if the NRA ever ran EIC matches, I believe it was always the DCM or CMP. The DCM use to furnish ammo for the leg matches, and charged a dollar to shoot them. All the EIC paper work had to be sent to the DCM/CMP and the Regional or State Championship paper work went to the NRA.
Back then you couldn't use ground mats and you had to load from the person, couldnt lay your extra mags on the ground. Even military matches had to send their EIC paper work to the DCM.
The Army ran the DCM and they were always understaffed, it took a while to get your points credited or your badge when you legged out. CMP is contracted to Civilians, they no longer get any tax payer funding. CMP funds all their programs via sales of surplus rifles, ammo, and such. They are much more effecient, now your points will beat you home from the match. Not to short the army, they did the best they could with the funds they had. When the DCM became CMP it made it a lot easier to sell or purchase surplus rifles. Use to be (when I got mine) an M1 was a once in a lifetime deal, now under CMP you are limited to 12 M1s a year.
I like the Garand/Springfield/Vintage Military CMP matches better then High Power now. It seems easier for the average person to get involved. You can be competitive with a $500 Garand or even a $100 Mosin instead of having to pay $1500 plus for a good quality AR simply because everyone has to use As Issued Military Rifles.
Even ammo, you can get surplus ammo from CMP cheaper then you can re-load it. I like the ideal of allowing anyone to shoot. To be competive in High Power has turned it into a rich mans game.
Not saying I'm giving up my Super Match M1A or WOA Service rifle, I'll keep shooting HP but throw most of my support to the CMP-GSM games (and now Vintage Sniper Rifle Matches).
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295, you can't even look at one for that price now.
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295 </div></div>
I want a time machine
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295 </div></div>
I want a time machine
Re: service rifle competitions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295 </div></div>
I want a time machine </div></div>
Mine is from the early 80s.... I started shooting in a club at 10yrs old but, it was smallbore... I used a club rifle till I was 13yrs old... Dad bought my Anshutz after I won the NRA distinguished expert award... then when I made the Louisiana JR. State team for Service rifle, he bough my supermatch in 1980 or so.... a couple of years after I was on the team for the first time. Back then, we could use the Louisiana shooter's assn. M14s that were given to them my DCM.
There's nothing quite like trying to, "man up", when you're a 14yr old kid trying to wrestle with a M14 trying to get enough wax in your braces to keep it from making your lip stick to your teeth. LOL ( ask me how I know ) A good solid cheek weld on top of your thumb sucks when your thumb kicks your braces into your lip.
My ONLY regret is that I started chasing girls before I became distinguished in service rifle..... I did make the president's 100 in 1984, however.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back when I got my M1A (1977). I paid $295 </div></div>
I want a time machine </div></div>
Mine is from the early 80s.... I started shooting in a club at 10yrs old but, it was smallbore... I used a club rifle till I was 13yrs old... Dad bought my Anshutz after I won the NRA distinguished expert award... then when I made the Louisiana JR. State team for Service rifle, he bough my supermatch in 1980 or so.... a couple of years after I was on the team for the first time. Back then, we could use the Louisiana shooter's assn. M14s that were given to them my DCM.
There's nothing quite like trying to, "man up", when you're a 14yr old kid trying to wrestle with a M14 trying to get enough wax in your braces to keep it from making your lip stick to your teeth. LOL ( ask me how I know ) A good solid cheek weld on top of your thumb sucks when your thumb kicks your braces into your lip.
My ONLY regret is that I started chasing girls before I became distinguished in service rifle..... I did make the president's 100 in 1984, however.
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