Service Rifle vs. SPR profile

[rjacobs]

In my never ending quest to eventually build a precision .223 AR I am once again looking at barrels(I actually have money right now).

I would like to have a Bartlein as I know they shoot lights out. There are several others in the running as well(Douglas, WOA, Rainier Ultra Match, Krieger, Black Hole Weaponry, BCM(criterion), Noveske).

CLE has Bartlein Service Rifle profile barrels available.

What is the difference between the service rifle profile and the SPR profile?

18", 20" doesnt make a huge difference. I know the SPR is "supposed" to be 18", but there are companies out there selling 20" barrels as "SPR" barrels, which technically is not correct.

Service rifle appears to be slightly heavier prior to the gas block than the SPR profile and then from the gas block forward they both appear to be identical(.750) to the muzzle. Am I on the right track here?

Not trying to get into a brand or rifling or stainless steel type argument, just trying to figure out service rifle profile vs. SPR profile.

 

[ORD]

Service rifle barrels are, in fact, a good bit heavier (up to 1") under the handguards/behind the journal than the SPR, 0.750" at the journal, and slightly less than that (0.73") from in front of the journal to the muzzle.

SPR barrels will vary somewhat in terms of contour/specs depending on who made the one in question and whether they stick to the actual SPR specs for use with the Ops Inc brake/collar/suppressor, but generally, they run 0.85" under the handguards/behind the journal, 0.750" at the journal and 0.73" in front of the journal to the muzzle, with specific contouring to permit the attachment of the Ops hardware/suppressor that I won't go into here as there is really no reason.

Obviously, the SPR will be ~3/4lb lighter thanks to the slightly smaller profile under the HG and 2" less barrel out front.

As for the "performance" differences between the 20" and 18" barrels...with mag-length ammo...it won't matter much if at all in terms of your terminal ballistics/effective range. Yes, the 18" SPR will run a little slower than a comparable 20" barrel, but again...not a huge issue depending on your ultimate goals with the rifle.

The CLE Bartlein tubes will be one of, if not THE, best barrel on the market for the money. Not to take away from what the finest barrels from Douglas, Krieger and the like can do in properly setup and run once installed, but its tough to beat what CLE can do with a high-end Bartlein blank for only ~$500!!

 

[rjacobs]

Thanks for the reply. Not terribly concerned with weight, I could always get it fluted. Its going to be mainly a bench/prone gun anyway.

Not concerned with 18" or 20" either as, again, bench gun and ballistically I might see 50-75 fps difference, but that wont affect me one way or the other as most I will shoot it at will be roughly 500 yards on steel.

I just couldnt figure out the real difference, but thought the service rifle was basically larger to the gas port shoulder and then basically same from there on out.

Now to convince myself to spend $500 on an AR barrel LOL.

Plan is:
some barrel(probably the Bartlein Service Rifle from CLE)
new BCM upper receiver
BCM bolt
JP light weight carrier
JP silent capture spring
Syrac adjustable gas block to tune
Noveske 15" NSR
AAC 51t Blackout
Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44

SHOULD be a sweet shooter.

 

[ORD]

If you are going to buy the barrel from CLE, have them go ahead and sell you a matched, properly headspaced bolt for ~$60 and be done with it. No need to source addt'l parts from BCM when you can get a bolt that's guaranteed to match up/headspace properly to your Bartlein barrel for comparable money for every bit as good a quality bolt as the BCM and save money and addt'l S&H costs.

And if it makes you feel any better...I paid a good bit more than $500 for my last Kreiger (not from CLE) and while its an incredible barrel...I can't honestly say that I couldn't have done every bit as good (or better) for a fair bit less money!

Good luck and God speed!

 

[281sohc]

While you are right on the money thing ORD, I think it goes without saying the Kriegers have proven to give a much higher round count without loss of accuracy as compared to most other barrels. Sometimes that extra 1500 rounds of x's or half min accuracy is worth the extra money. I'm only saying this from my experience comparing the Wilson barrels I started out using in my early highpower days to the Kriegers I started using later on

 

[ORD]

While you are right on the money thing ORD, I think it goes without saying the Kriegers have proven to give a much higher round count without loss of accuracy as compared to most other barrels. Sometimes that extra 1500 rounds of x's or half min accuracy is worth the extra money. I'm only saying this from my experience comparing the Wilson barrels I started out using in my early highpower days to the Kriegers I started using later on

No disagreement there...but Wilson barrels are NOWHERE CLOSE to what you'll get from either a Krieger or from a Bartlein blank and I have run the @#$% out of both types over the years with no perceptible differences in barrel life before accuracy takes a dump (or at least is no longer "competitive" as a rule). If given my choices between a CLE Krieger and a CLE Bartlein...I'd have no qualms whatsoever about buying either if the prices were comparable. I just wouldn't necessarily go off paying a premium for a Krieger if a Bartlein was readily available for roughly the same or even less money.

 

[rjacobs]

If you are going to buy the barrel from CLE, have them go ahead and sell you a matched, properly headspaced bolt for ~$60 and be done with it. No need to source addt'l parts from BCM when you can get a bolt that's guaranteed to match up/headspace properly to your Bartlein barrel for comparable money for every bit as good a quality bolt as the BCM and save money and addt'l S&H costs.

And if it makes you feel any better...I paid a good bit more than $500 for my last Kreiger (not from CLE) and while its an incredible barrel...I can't honestly say that I couldn't have done every bit as good (or better) for a fair bit less money!

Good luck and God speed!

I hadnt thought of getting a matched bolt for it. $60 isnt bad.

What material is their bolt? C158? 9310?

I can get Krieger for just under the $500 price point.

While you are right on the money thing ORD, I think it goes without saying the Kriegers have proven to give a much higher round count without loss of accuracy as compared to most other barrels. Sometimes that extra 1500 rounds of x's or half min accuracy is worth the extra money. I'm only saying this from my experience comparing the Wilson barrels I started out using in my early highpower days to the Kriegers I started using later on

Krieger and Bartlein should produce equal round counts since they are both cut rifled and supposedly on the same Pratt machines from the 40's. The Wilson and other button rifled barrels will not have the same round count. Thats a factor of the rifling with cut rifling being quite a bit harder from my understanding due to how its done. A lot of people say cut, button, CHF, unicorn penis, etc... rifled barrels dont matter as long as its done right, and to a point I guess I agree, but cut rifling has always proven to be a winner in accuracy and barrel life(CHF probably beats it in barrel life though).

 

[ORD]

I don't recall the specs on the bolts offered by CLE, but I have never had any issues with any I've run in the past, including some with pretty HIGH mileage at this point. I'm sure that the fine folks at CLE (likely you'll find out from Bunny who generally deals with the phones/e-mails/basically all comms with customers) will be glad to give you the details.

And while I'm thinking about it...be sure you inquire about which barrel extension both the Krieger and the Bartlein are set up with because you'll want to get an upper receiver to match. The BCM receivers are ALL equipped with M4 extended feedramp cuts. 99% of the time, if you are buying the Krieger commercially like from Midway, Brownells, etc., it'll have a standard A2 rifle extension and NOT an M4 with the extended feedramp cuts. While you can run an M4 cut barrel in an A2 upper, you will run into issues with failures to feed/jams if you attempt to install an A2 barrel into an upper with M4 feedramps. Now, you CAN modify an A2 extension with relief cuts to work with an M4 style upper, but the best practice is to match your upper/barrel extension from the get-go instead of shoe-horning a solution.

 

[Accusource8541]

I recently received my Kreiger SPR barrel from CLE and I could not be happier with the way it shoots and with the customer service experience from start to finish with CLE. I also had it fluted and the overall weight of the package is really light. Definitely a good idea to go ahead and get the bolt with them as well.

 

[rjacobs]

I guess a call to CLE tomorrow is in order.

Thinking of having it fluted before the gas block to save a little weight depending on cost.

Also need to make sure its theaded as I dont think the service rifle stuff is threaded by default.

And good call on the receiver extension. Shouldnt be a problem to get them to put an M4 extension on it vs. an A2.

Also wylde chamber or CLE match chamber? Will be shooting 77g SMK's in LC brass.

 

[ORD]

I guess a call to CLE tomorrow is in order.

Thinking of having it fluted before the gas block to save a little weight depending on cost.

Also need to make sure its theaded as I dont think the service rifle stuff is threaded by default.

And good call on the receiver extension. Shouldnt be a problem to get them to put an M4 extension on it vs. an A2.

Also wylde chamber or CLE match chamber? Will be shooting 77g SMK's in LC brass.

Your call on the chamber. If it were mine and I was going to be running the rifle it goes on as a precision rig almost exclusively with the load/ammo you mentioned...I'd opt for the match chamber and not think twice about it.

 

[rjacobs]

Your call on the chamber. If it were mine and I was going to be running the rifle it goes on as a precision rig almost exclusively with the load/ammo you mentioned...I'd opt for the match chamber and not think twice about it.

My plan is to build the load and stock up on components. I already have a mix of 5k 77g SMK's and 77g Nosler CC's(which are damn close to a 77g SMK).

 

[schrammy]

My plan is to build the load and stock up on components. I already have a mix of 5k 77g SMK's and 77g Nosler CC's(which are damn close to a 77g SMK).

Good call on the Nosler. I've shot a couple thousand of the 77gr bthp with fantastic luck. I weight sorted a couple hundred just for giggles and they all fell within +/- .1gr of 77. Think they are a little optimistic with the claimed .340 BC, but what company isn't? This is definitely one of my favorite .224 projectiles out there, especially when they are on sale!

Looks like you have a heck of a build going on. Can't wait to see the final results on paper when you are done.

 

[DWood]

As I understand it, AR 15 bolts either headspace correctly with a barrel, or they don't. It's not like they are adjustable. Other than checking the head space with go/no gauges for a given bolt and barrel combination, how would you "match" a bolt and barrel?

I am building an upper with a WOA SPR 18", 223 Wylde, 1-7, SS barrel (available at Brownell's for $279), Daniel Defense BCG, and DD upper. I plan to shoot Black Hills MK 262 77 grain through it.

 

[lte82]

I guess a call to CLE tomorrow is in order.

Thinking of having it fluted before the gas block to save a little weight depending on cost.

Also need to make sure its theaded as I dont think the service rifle stuff is threaded by default.

And good call on the receiver extension. Shouldnt be a problem to get them to put an M4 extension on it vs. an A2.

Also wylde chamber or CLE match chamber? Will be shooting 77g SMK's in LC brass.

I dont think you can go wrong with either. The cle chamber is damn near identical to a 5.56 nato chamber with a shorter throat / less freebore. The wylde is a little loose but it is also will take whatever you feed it. Both will give you plenty of accuracy.

 

[Accusource8541]

Mine has a Wylde chamber and shoots the 77SMKs between half MOA and 3/4 MOA off a bipod so I believe you would not go wrong with either chamber.

 

[rjacobs]

Well that didnt last long. Lost out on the Barlein, at least for now.

The Krieger I can get from Brownells has a rifle extension on it, not M4. I dont have a problem with that, but the problem is I cant find any really, what I would consider, high end, receivers that dont have M4 cuts. Rainier=M4, Mega=M4, Vltor=M4, BCM=M4. About the only non M4 cut that is "decent" seems to be an RRA, but I am not really a huge fan of them.

The other barrel I have found is a Noveske 20" Medium Varmint with all reports saying they shoot lights out, which is expected from a Noveske. These are M4 extensions so no problem picking up a good quality upper.

 

[ORD]

Speaking from experience with them...Fulton Armory has some high quality uppers WITHOUT the M4 cuts in the receiver that are very reasonably priced. See here: Upper Receiver, A4, Flat Top, USGI, Numbered

They aren't as nicely "contoured" or "shaped" as some of the billet uppers, but they'll get the job done quite effectively!

Also, check with Rainier again as they have, at least in the past, offered their UltraMatch Billet flattop uppers both WITH and WITHOUT the M4 feedramps. Not sure if that's still the case, but its worth having a closer look or otherwise inquiring if you can get one without the M4 feedramps.

 

[George Mac]

This was a 20" Krieger Service Rifle profile that Spartan Precision cut down to 18" and added the SF break. With the 18" and 77's it was banging on a steel 40% IPSC at 740 yards all day long. Cut the barrel and throw on a break and you'll still be at about 20" and can watch your impacts or use a can.

 

[rjacobs]

I looked at those Fulton armory ones last night and for some reason kept reading a4 and thinking m4 cuts but looks like they have another with m4 cuts. Not terribly concerned with billet vs forged. Rainier has the a3 option but I've never seen them in stock but I might call them and ask.

Ah more research to do...

 

[Drifter™]

As I understand it, AR 15 bolts either headspace correctly with a barrel, or they don't. It's not like they are adjustable. Other than checking the head space with go/no gauges for a given bolt and barrel combination, how would you "match" a bolt and barrel?

While any ole bolt will likely work okay, I believe there are tolerances allowed in the making of both bolts and barrel extensions. Getting a barrel with a matched bolt insures that the setup is optimal for best potential accuracy.

 

[MSTN]

The no-joke SPR contour barrels weigh in at 38.5 ounces.

Service rifle contours (to include the USMC SAM barrel - which is the same thing) typically show up weighing 54 ounces.

A half ounce shy of a pound difference.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

My experience shooting in HP with Service Rifle is a cut rifled barrel will be good for about 3000 rounds, while a button rifled barrel will deliver about 2000 rounds. This is to say, I am measuring barrel life off of when my average x count at 600 begins to drop. I now use Douglas buttoned barrels in 1 in 7 smithed by CLE as I appear to get better results with these than others, about .5 MOA for most of a 20 round string with irons shooting 80 grain Bergers at 100 in prone practice sessions with sling support. I order my barrels with A2 feed ramps. I install these to uppers without feed ramp extensions as I see no benefit to having M4 feed ramp extensions. BTW, there is no spec for a Service Rifle barrel other than it must be 20 inches with an external profile which matches the M16A2,3, or 4. The idea allows for the match conditioning of guns used in Service Rifle competition, which requires the rifle to look like an as issued rifle, still allowing for internal modifications.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

Tag for AR build in future.

 

[johnstonblake]

I'm building one now with the woa spr barrel. Hopefully I'll have it done and a range report within a month or so.

 

[BigJohn141]

I'm running a CLE Krieger 20" service rifle barrel and it shoots great. The funny thing is that I am running a rifle extension in a upper with M4 ramps and it works just fine. I have yet to have a round hang on the lip but that doesnt mean it cant or wont happen sooner or later. Being a rifle to to shoot paper, steel, and small critters I am not too worried about it but if someone was shooting back at me I would reconsider.

As far as range report, it will bang a 12" plate at 800 all day with MK262 ammo and i am going to stretch it out to 1K as soon as it warms up a little.

 

[rjacobs]

Well ended up with a Krieger SPR, 7 twist, bead blast finish, CLE match chamber and matched bolt from Compass Lake.

Ordered up a Vltor MUR upper without forward assist and a Geissele 13" Mk4.

Now to source the Syrac gas block, JP low mass carrier and silent capture spring setup.