Night Vision Setting up a primarily day time rifle for thermal use

[mikefraz]

I have a 300BLK SBR that has an Eotech EXPS3-0 on it that I love for day time use and night time use with white light. I don’t want to change my optic. I also want to get into thermal in the near future. My ideal thermal solution would be to scan either handheld or helmet mounted (helmet mounted not a necessity) and then be able to attach the thermal to my rifle to take a shot if needed.

What I’m racking my brain over is how is this best accomplished? The Eotech is an EXPS, so it has the QD lever. In theory I could pop it off and slap the thermal on, but that’s not quick, it’s not smooth, and then I have to have a spot to put my eotech when not in use. I also realize that a clip on his out of the question with just the Eotech because it’s like looking through a pair of binoculars with your arms stretched out away from your face.

In my mind I feel like a reverse “flip to side magnifier” concept could work. Where the Eotech is mounted on a flip to side picatinny rail mount (which after googling, I don’t think exists)and would work as normal for day shooting, and then could be flipped to the side when the thermal is installed on the rail. This would allow for relatively smooth/fast transition from one to the other. Since this doesn’t seem to exist (yet), am I missing the forest for the trees here and am I not thinking about a more simple solution? I feel like my situation isn’t that unique, right?

 

[pyplynr]

I would look into something like the Iray RH25 and use it for handheld or helmet mounted, then put it up front as a clip on in front your eotech. you could turn the eotech off and just look through the glass into the thermal and use the reticle of the thermal.

 

[mikefraz]

I would look into something like the Iray RH25 and use it for handheld or helmet mounted, then put it up front as a clip on in front your eotech. you could turn the eotech off and just look through the glass into the thermal and use the reticle of the thermal.

I feel like that wouldn’t work because the RH25 would be like 12” in front of my face.

 

[Rerun7]

Got a pic of the rifle? I do this on a backup rifle which works decent depending on your setup.

I have enough space behind my red dot to put a unity style riser. When day hunting the red dot wasn’t obscured by the riser. When it got dark I could pop the red dot off and put the thermal on the riser. That way they were always indexed in the same spot for the qd and both at the right height.

 

[mikefraz]

Got a pic of the rifle? I do this on a backup rifle which works decent depending on your setup.

I have enough space behind my red dot to put a unity style riser. When day hunting the red dot wasn’t obscured by the riser. When it got dark I could pop the red dot off and put the thermal on the riser. That way they were always indexed in the same spot for the qd and both at the right height.

I could post a picture later today if that helps. Perhaps I’m not understanding you completely, but why have the riser for the thermal if you’re going to remove the red dot anyway?

 

[db2000]

Realistically trying to go from scanning to attaching and then taking a shot might work but that’s a lot in the dark while an animal is moving. Not sure on the EoTech but the obvious answer is an LVPO honestly. 1-6 or 1-8 is what I use. I scan with a Super Yoter C on the gun and tripod or out of a blind through the scope. I have a SiCo Radius that is scanning in real time as well giving feedback on ranges.
Your eye has to be right up to the scope for scanning so it would have to be all the way back like a thermal scope would be.

 

[spife7980]

Buy a cheap psa or pony rifle and mount the thermal on that. Leave the one you like how it is, how it is.

A dedicated thermal rifle can be cheaper and quicker and better than getting quick clip on stuff.

 

[1911guy]

Nox35 on an offset 45 pic rail mount.

 

[mikefraz]

Nox35 on an offset 45 pic rail mount.

Do you have any more pictures of this setup from the side/back? This seems like it might be the best setup for what I’m wanting to do.

 

[Rerun7]

I could post a picture later today if that helps. Perhaps I’m not understanding you completely, but why have the riser for the thermal if you’re going to remove the red dot anyway?

For me, the thermal sits too low on the rifle so it needs a riser. However, I’ve got my pvs14 on as well so I need them higher.

That may not be an issue for your setup

 

[1911guy]

Side, top, rear

eta- recently ive been mounting it on the receiver pic rail behind the high-rise mount. It gets the nox lower to the bore and farther back. Both positions seem to work fine, different head positions obviously. I think im going to creat two zero profiles for the two positions and try each out for a while. My last range trip went well.

 

[mikefraz]

Side, top, rear

eta- recently ive been mounting it on the receiver pic rail behind the high-rise mount. It gets the nox lower to the bore and farther back. Both positions seem to work fine, different head positions obviously. I think im going to creat two zero profiles for the two positions and try each out for a while. My last range trip went well.

Awesome. Thank you for the pictures. Does the offset NOX35 ruin the balance of the rifle? Or is it not that noticeable? Would you say the thermal is just as usable as if it was mounted normally on the rail (aside from having to cant the rifle)?

 

[1911guy]

Honestly, i‘m surprised at how well this works. It was almost on a lark that I bought the offset 45 mount…just for shits as giggles as they say. Found one for cheap on ebay.

when I mounted it and played with it in my house I realized that this was actually going to be usable.

the balance isnt a problem or really even noticeable

prone is a bit more challenging, but i plan to use my atlas bipod next time with the legs in an offset height/position and see how that goes.

this is absolutely useable

some things i like:
- i dont need to dismantle my existing night gun.
- i like the KAC high-rise mount and didnt want to get rid of it. I want to be able to use NV Easily.
- i can’t afford multiple thermals and wanted a scanner, but didn’t want to neuter the gun when pulling it off if it was in the primary optic position.
- I’m not sure how much I trust the optional Nox35 pic rail mount that is on top of the thermal scope,
- i can easily pull the thermal and laser off and it looks like a normal gun
- for me 99% red dot, 1% thermal…so this makes sense for me.
- i had a hard time finding an offset micro mount that worked when the Nox was in the primary position

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Here is my rig, I have a Hogster 35mm as my main sight and RDS at an offset. Battery pack is a bit heavy up front but I like the run time. It has a visable/ IR laser that is fast with a PVS-14 also.

The Hogster is QD and I also have a 2.5-10x QD I can swap out. Makes sighting in easy. Sight the day scope, match the laser to it (visable), IR laser is slaved so it is set, swap on Hogster Thermal and zero it to visable laser. Match the RDS to it while I am at it.

I have a thermal clip on that doubles as my scanner. The IR laser is really handy, super fast up close and I can show targets for my buddies that have NV but no thermal.

 

[shoots100]

Having a rifle or an upper in the same caliber with a dedicated thermal mounted to it is my recommendation, as it's going to be more dependable, reliable and it's a great excuse to buy another rifle or upper.
Then you have a day rig and a night rig ready to go.

SJC

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Having a rifle or an upper in the same caliber with a dedicated thermal mounted to it is my recommendation, as it's going to be more dependable, reliable and it's a great excuse to buy another rifle or upper.
Then you have a day rig and a night rig ready to go.

SJC

Agreed or invest in quality qd mounts that hold zero, both my day scope and thermal are on Bobro mounts and hold zero.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Wizard vision (white phos NV on dominant eye and black/white thermal on non dominant eye) and a PEQ 15 is king for what you’re looking for. It’ll only cost you about $20K for shit you’ll actually want to use.

I would recommend starting with a good white phos PVS-14 and a PEQ or similar and go from there based on how much you actually end up using it and how much money you’re willing to burn to go shoot at night. That’s actually an extremely effective setup whether you’re hunting or just shooting steel and you can actually navigate in the dark and have some depth perception which you’re not going to do with a thermal. Never mind the fact that the 14 and laser will be a far more reliable setup unless you’re going to drop the coin for L3, BAE, or Trijicon thermal.

 

[Crews]

I’m willing to bet a different upper and a dedicated WMT is a more cost effective approach, along with being a lot more practical.

 

[diggler1833]

So I've done the QD thermal mounts a few times. Ironically, the one that worked the best was the factory (non-"QD"...but it needs three bolts for the mount to come off) Pulsar. Most of the time, the Zero Delta and ADM are within 1-2 MOA. That isn't bad if you're hunting hogs at 50 yards. It kind of starts to suck when you are trying to shoot coyotes at 200.

I'd be all for having a second upper to swap back and forth. The offset red dot is an idea...but the couple of times I MAY have been able to use it on a charging boar, I was too fixed in the thermal to want to screw with something else under stress. However, some sort of urban combat environment (if we are going to wargame), that might not be a bad idea. For hunters though, it is less important than putting a backup red dot on your deer rifle.

Night Vision is a great answer here if you don't mind the limitations (detection range) vs a thermal. Having a clip-on NVD to go with the EOTech would be a pretty solid option if you were going to stick with one upper IMO. Night vision also has some advantages if you are hunting coyotes in areas where there may be dogs that you don't want to shoot...they look pretty damn similar in a thermal.

 

[CrossRhodes]

RH25 on a Wilcox setup + G33 would get it done with the least amount of tinkering and weight.
RH25 without the G33 will result in a dime sized FOV of the thermal and sort of suck
Im not a fan of TWS as you lose the ability to passive aim with the base gun which is nice sometimes when youre in dense brush or wanting more traditional reads of lighting.

 

[mikefraz]

RH25 on a Wilcox setup + G33 would get it done with the least amount of tinkering and weight.
RH25 without the G33 will result in a dime sized FOV of the thermal and sort of suck
Im not a fan of TWS as you lose the ability to passive aim with the base gun which is nice sometimes when youre in dense brush or wanting more traditional reads of lighting.

This is what I keep coming back to. I feel like something like a NOX18 on an offset mount could work (as shown earlier with a NOX35), but I don’t think it would “mesh/flow” as well as the RH25. It helps that I could remove the magnifier when not in use too if I really wanted to cut down on weight. Then the only “permanent” addition to the rifle would be the Wilcox mount which is low profile and doesn’t weigh a whole lot.

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

MAWL, helmet mounted PVS-14, and a COTI.

 

[BamaSE]

Nothing wrong with using the thermal as a day scope too. I know it is counterintuitive but functions the same day or night. Limitation being viewing through glass….windows, windshield, etc. Just add 5 seconds for start up for the Nox over the Eotech….or just leave it running when you are out and about with it.