Dates? I gotta lock down the RV rental for next year!
We've already started on next year's project as well...!
We've already started on next year's project as well...!
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Sniper’s Hide Cup Shc 2015.
- Thread starter LRI
- Start date
I second this motion. Thank you Chad. I wanna know also. I need to clear this through the war department on my end.
Better make sure there's room for that grill on next year's rental! I'm still thinking about that chicken! Stuff was off the hook!!! Thanks again for the great conversation and awesome food!!! I'm looking forward to next year's SHC already as well!!
Its been over Memorial Day weekend the last two years running, in hotter areas its not full on summer brutal at that point in the year, I'm up for just making Memorial Day the default Sniper's Hide Cup weekend! Then we all know what date its going to be and when to plan for it. Its also nice having the Monday after off for folks that have to travel or just put gear away.
Rich
Rich
A conversation with Da Man suggests it may push to later in the year. This year overlapped with a number of other events.
it's a good sign when match hosts have to coordinate dates. Lots oh chootin goin on!
Casey, glad you liked the yard birdz. Get some of that marinade!
You need to call me sometime also. Something I'd like to bounce off ya.
c.
it's a good sign when match hosts have to coordinate dates. Lots oh chootin goin on!
Casey, glad you liked the yard birdz. Get some of that marinade!
You need to call me sometime also. Something I'd like to bounce off ya.
c.
I hope it stays where its been. The bigger matches just need to pick a weekend and stick to it if they can. Then folks know when putting in for vacay, ok Memorial Day weekend is the cup, Labor Day is the GAP Grind, Bushnell Brawl is July 4th, etc.
The sporadic matches that don't happen like clockwork each year can fill in wherever it suits them.
The sporadic matches that don't happen like clockwork each year can fill in wherever it suits them.
I agree with LawnMM. Pin it down as Memorial Day Weekend now, and the other big events who haven't firmed-up their schedule can work around the Cup. As they say: You snooze, you loose.
I know I know.... But someone else's cooking always tastes better than your own!!! I'll give you buzz this week sometime brotha, talk to you soon!
-Casey
I'm good with it being later in the year. I have missed the opening day of fishing season for several years now. If you have ever fished Henry's lake in Idaho you know what I'm talking about.
The bitch is, we've been doing the Cup for several years now on Memorial Day and we got swamped with matches around us.
It really created a problem with being book-ended by some big matches on top of K&M having it the same weekend.
So I wanted to move it away from the rest, but what that is I am not sure. I would rather do Labor Day, but as noted the Grind is pretty close to that... Sure Memorial Day works but not if these other matches directors are gonna squeeze us like this year. It's not the first year we used Memorial Weekend, but it sure felt like we were intruding.
When the 30 days around the Cup has too many big matches that means people have to pick and choose and while it's great we have a lot of matches to choose from, putting them in the same month really hurts the competitors. I had several people who were forced to choose and they did so begrudgingly. We can host a lot of people but when those people can't get the time off or have to choose to between one or another because they are too close together it creates a problem for all.
I am open to picking a date now, but not if it means the other match directors are gonna simply take that information and stack around it
It really created a problem with being book-ended by some big matches on top of K&M having it the same weekend.
So I wanted to move it away from the rest, but what that is I am not sure. I would rather do Labor Day, but as noted the Grind is pretty close to that... Sure Memorial Day works but not if these other matches directors are gonna squeeze us like this year. It's not the first year we used Memorial Weekend, but it sure felt like we were intruding.
When the 30 days around the Cup has too many big matches that means people have to pick and choose and while it's great we have a lot of matches to choose from, putting them in the same month really hurts the competitors. I had several people who were forced to choose and they did so begrudgingly. We can host a lot of people but when those people can't get the time off or have to choose to between one or another because they are too close together it creates a problem for all.
I am open to picking a date now, but not if it means the other match directors are gonna simply take that information and stack around it
I think you have squatters rights to Memorial Day, Frank. Stick with that and let it be known that's going to be the Cup weekend and if the other Match Directors are smart, and I'm certain they aren't stupid, they will work around it. If they don't pay attention or keep crowding that weekend, whats to say it won't happen if you pick a different date elsewhere? The lack of consistency for dates on the big matches is the issue.
You all that put on the big matches like the Hide Cup, Bushnell Brawl, GAP Grind, K&M need to email each other and pick a good weekend and stick with it. Then everybody will know what to plan for. If the dates move around every year you guys have a bigger chance of stepping on each other, whether by mistake or not, and its difficult for those attending to plan for. If I know the Cup is on Memorial Day and the Grind is Labor Day and the Brawl is over July 4th it makes it real easy to plan on the bigger matches. Sucks for the smaller guys because they have to fill in elsewhere, but its not really the small matches creating the conflict, is it?
If you do the Cup on Memorial Day next year that's 3 years in a row, if another big match picks the same weekend that's pretty dumb and its also beyond your control, IMO.
You all that put on the big matches like the Hide Cup, Bushnell Brawl, GAP Grind, K&M need to email each other and pick a good weekend and stick with it. Then everybody will know what to plan for. If the dates move around every year you guys have a bigger chance of stepping on each other, whether by mistake or not, and its difficult for those attending to plan for. If I know the Cup is on Memorial Day and the Grind is Labor Day and the Brawl is over July 4th it makes it real easy to plan on the bigger matches. Sucks for the smaller guys because they have to fill in elsewhere, but its not really the small matches creating the conflict, is it?
If you do the Cup on Memorial Day next year that's 3 years in a row, if another big match picks the same weekend that's pretty dumb and its also beyond your control, IMO.
I think what a lot of you guys are overlooking are the politics going on in the tactical-precision shooting community right now. Frank/Snipershide and the PRS have been on the outs for a while now and that's the reason the K&M match was run the same weekend as the Cup this year. Frank made efforts to get the K&M match and the Cup scheduled on different weekends, but as far as I'm able to gather those attempts yielded little success. The K&M match was a sanctioned PRS event with PRS points given to the winner and top finishers.
This is why scheduling the Cup later may or may not yield any benefit. The PRS guys may just choose to schedule a larger match on whatever weekend Frank chooses to have the Cup in order to make the top shooters chose which organization to show loyalty to. This is why we didn't see guys like George Gardner, Francis Kuehl and Bryan Kerr at the Cup this year. This was the first year the PRS would not give any PRS points to the winner and/or competitors of the Snipershide Cup. That wasn’t Frank’s choice. He could have cared less either way, but the top shooters do care, because the PRS is still the only game in town for legitimate exposure and sponsorship's right now.
Until the TRL grows and is able to compete with the PRS in terms of popularity and sponsorship's you’re going to see conflict with whichever weekend the Cup is scheduled for. Simply because the PRS doesn’t want to see Frank or the TRL succeed and take away from their monopoly on the sport.
-VB
This is why scheduling the Cup later may or may not yield any benefit. The PRS guys may just choose to schedule a larger match on whatever weekend Frank chooses to have the Cup in order to make the top shooters chose which organization to show loyalty to. This is why we didn't see guys like George Gardner, Francis Kuehl and Bryan Kerr at the Cup this year. This was the first year the PRS would not give any PRS points to the winner and/or competitors of the Snipershide Cup. That wasn’t Frank’s choice. He could have cared less either way, but the top shooters do care, because the PRS is still the only game in town for legitimate exposure and sponsorship's right now.
Until the TRL grows and is able to compete with the PRS in terms of popularity and sponsorship's you’re going to see conflict with whichever weekend the Cup is scheduled for. Simply because the PRS doesn’t want to see Frank or the TRL succeed and take away from their monopoly on the sport.
-VB
If that's the case that's kind of lame of the PRS. Not that I care at this point because I'm not a pro shooter, just shot my first Cup this year. I was kind of pumped about the TRL, but it seems like it has been put on the backburner by Frank and everyone else. It would be nice to hear if we should just forget about that.
I will shoot the Cup because I'm local and it was an awesome match. In a few years if the PRS is still the only game in town for a series I may look at it.
If there is going to be drama either way I say just keep it on Memorial Day weekend, it helps to have it "set" for bidding for time off.
I thought the K&M guys were still cool with SH/Frank and willing to work with him on scheduling?
I will shoot the Cup because I'm local and it was an awesome match. In a few years if the PRS is still the only game in town for a series I may look at it.
If there is going to be drama either way I say just keep it on Memorial Day weekend, it helps to have it "set" for bidding for time off.
I thought the K&M guys were still cool with SH/Frank and willing to work with him on scheduling?
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Shannon Kay is the owner of K&M and is also on the PRS committee. He was one of the primary people that decided to have the K&M PRS match the same weekend as the Cup. As far as I know, he and Frank are not buddy-buddy these days. Someone will chime in with more knowledge on the situation, but like I said before, whatever weekend Frank chooses to have the Cup, I think he's going to see the PRS stacking matches on that same weekend for reasons which I previously explained.
-VB
You have it slightly backwards, I dropped the PRS and wanted nothing to do with them, not the other way around. They can stack matches all they like it only hurts themselves and the shooters. We still had more shooters than last year and we have far more sponsors and a much bigger prize table then all the PRS matches combined. As far as exposure, even this has proven here is much more lucrative to the sponsors over the PRS. Go ask any SH Sponsor who supports both what the results yield when it's all said and done. We can reach far more people and basically, other than the fact i like certain people advertise on here, by me choosing to scrub any reference to the PRS on SH you hear very little about their matches.
I have no issue with Shannon, his decision to hold that match the same weekend was due to his active duty status and not the PRS. (As far as I know as this is what he and I discussed) I support them (K&M) and will be attending the GAP Grind again this year.
But I refused to support the PRS and not give them my scores, it was not the other way around. But yes Rich did attempt to purposely stack matches on and around the Cup, clearly it had zero effect as even with a few less guys showing up, we still brought in more shooters. The PRS support in my case is not worth the time it took to type this. We'll see what happens moving forward as I spoke to Bryan Morgan about getting it sorted, it's others in the PRS that are interested in fixing it, not the committee or the ruling body.
If guys want to compete against who they believe is the best shooters and know, if you're past the Top 20 odds are you'll walk away with nothing, that is fine, but with us giving away the prizes like we do, we spread them out and bring in a lot of new shooters. It's not as cutthroat because those guys have sponsorships on the line, they might help you to a point, but after that point, it's all about them and the team as it pays their way. Most of the older, more experienced shooters to this sport (guys who have been shooting matches since the early days, the SHC started in 2003) feel the Teams are hurting more than helping and all it does it create an us vs them attitude. Let's face it, it's no fun to shoot a UKD stage and you see the "team" guys not even ranging it because they already know the distance, stuff like that resonates with a new shooter.
I purposely balanced the Cup to not only make it fun and let's face it, most matches are fun, but also to help new shooters to not feel overwhelmed by the pace or competition. I have been around enough to easily mimic any match out there, and I decided to take a step back. The space allows us to shoot a lot more and our only disadvantage is the number of ROs we need to properly run it. In my mind that is a big part of it.
I still the TRL is a very viable thing, but because the Cup was already set for mid year and due to my current workload I could not dedicate the right amount of attention to it. The Cup was still up in the air on location and I was doing most of the planning on my own. I don't have a committee nor do I just piggyback myself on others taking what they create, I create it. So that why I stopped talking about it, but it is a viable replacement.
Their monopoly is weak at best and it's only surviving because people want something to succeed. The Cup has been successful for a much longer time and clearly we have the formula down. Branding and making a rockstar out of a few names only works for so long. If new shooters are turned off, when the sponsors see very little return on their investment because the same 25 guys are taking home everything, you'll see they remain the biggest name in the cheapest real estate around. Their engine to promote the matches is not filling them up which is why the matches continue to come here and blocking that is proving more effective from my standpoint. Stacking against me like they tried has not worked out so well for them. Ask the Match directors what they say to me when I refuse to let them advertise here ? Us vs Them is a two way street, to be honest it's Main Street vs the Alley behind a popular bar comparison.
I probably should have talked to you before posting what I did. It was mainly me connecting my own dots, some were close, some not so much. In any event, thank you for clearing that up Frank. I'm really excited for next years event and am fully on board for supporting the SHC and the TRL any way I can. Thank you for running such a fun and rewarding event this year.
-VB
Everything you say Frank above is accurate.
Being a new shooter at the 2014 Sniper's Hide Cup, I was impressed with how much fun I had. I was not overwhelmed, but maybe this was because I had some limited monthly match experience from years past.
The prize table was a really great draw, especially for the new guys. I had a chance of getting something good. My good friend Vonbalkenbush got an amazing prize and this was his first big match also.
The venue that we shot at was amazing. There was so many options at Trigger Time Gun Club.
With this new knowledge, I vote for the same date, Memorial Day Weekend. The match was perfect this year and why change that? Let the other match directors do what they want, but my priority will be the Sniper's Hide Cup, period. It is my understanding that some of the PRS shooters will also be attending the Cup and making it their priority.
Being a new shooter at the 2014 Sniper's Hide Cup, I was impressed with how much fun I had. I was not overwhelmed, but maybe this was because I had some limited monthly match experience from years past.
The prize table was a really great draw, especially for the new guys. I had a chance of getting something good. My good friend Vonbalkenbush got an amazing prize and this was his first big match also.
The venue that we shot at was amazing. There was so many options at Trigger Time Gun Club.
With this new knowledge, I vote for the same date, Memorial Day Weekend. The match was perfect this year and why change that? Let the other match directors do what they want, but my priority will be the Sniper's Hide Cup, period. It is my understanding that some of the PRS shooters will also be attending the Cup and making it their priority.
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At the end of the day it should be about the shooter and not about the organization, mine or theirs.
I have always tried to approach it with the shooter in mind more so than myself, that is the difference, the PRS was simply their to insert themselves between the match director and the shooters. To me that is why there is an issue, not with just me but many others as well. you can do the same thing better by simply supporting the shooters and match director more and promoting yourself less.
I have always tried to approach it with the shooter in mind more so than myself, that is the difference, the PRS was simply their to insert themselves between the match director and the shooters. To me that is why there is an issue, not with just me but many others as well. you can do the same thing better by simply supporting the shooters and match director more and promoting yourself less.
Interesting point of view, I've never viewed the PRS that way, but I believe you're right. I still like the idea of having a scoring system that allows you to see where you are stacking up against other shooters on a national level though. But I believe the TRL solves that issue without all the peripheral nonsense that has ultimately become the PRS. Anyway, getting a bit off topic now, I too vote for having it over Memorial Day again. However, I will come shoot it whenever it's held.
-VB
This whole conversation boils down to a single word:
Loyalty.
My first post on this site was somewhere in 2009/2010. Since that day my business has grown into what it is today (better or worse as determined by our clients).
NONE of this would have been possible without Sniper's Hide. Period.
It's for these reasons I pull no punches and put all of LRI's resources to work when we build our presentation rifles for the SHC. It's the opportunity to say thank you and demonstrate what we can offer. A win/win for all parties.
I am not alone in the crowd of folks who's heartbeat is directly tied to this site. That should never be forgotten.
If my opinion matters, Keep it in May. Those who care will show.
See ya next year.
C.
Loyalty.
My first post on this site was somewhere in 2009/2010. Since that day my business has grown into what it is today (better or worse as determined by our clients).
NONE of this would have been possible without Sniper's Hide. Period.
It's for these reasons I pull no punches and put all of LRI's resources to work when we build our presentation rifles for the SHC. It's the opportunity to say thank you and demonstrate what we can offer. A win/win for all parties.
I am not alone in the crowd of folks who's heartbeat is directly tied to this site. That should never be forgotten.
If my opinion matters, Keep it in May. Those who care will show.
See ya next year.
C.
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Ignorance is bliss...
And so is living in Sturgis, South Dakota… bliss I mean.
I still remember the stories you told me during the bar-b-que. I laugh every time I think about the guy that thought he had a wildcat in his night sights, but ended up drilling some poor person's house cat. Effin unreal, but true I am sure. Thank you for that entertaining evening.
All of these issues were certainly visible to me at the 2013 Cup. That said, the structure was able to minimize the "gaming" to a certain extent. There are always points to be picked up when shooting with a team, especially if the teams spread members over different squads. There is probably no way around some of that.
Regardless, the "casual" match shooter like myself can still show up and feel competitive at the Cup, which is why it is #1 on my list for out-of-state matches going into the future. The second that it becomes more about "teams" and less about individual problem solving, I (and I suspect a large class of shooters like me) will rapidly get bored.
Hope to dovetail seeing son and his family (Aurora) with the match trip so sooner the firm date the better so Woody and I can plan our matches around me being out of pocket at the cup.
The Hide has been a huge factor in our match initial growth and the best conduit for our shooters for solid information helpful for our shooting discipline. It is great to see more venues opening up on the east coast so we have options not requiring the joy of air travel. As a note all of us East Coast MD are her on the Hide.......
The Hide has been a huge factor in our match initial growth and the best conduit for our shooters for solid information helpful for our shooting discipline. It is great to see more venues opening up on the east coast so we have options not requiring the joy of air travel. As a note all of us East Coast MD are her on the Hide.......
The consensus is to hold it again at the same time next year as this year.
So, if everyone is thinking, same time next year we are good with that.
So, if everyone is thinking, same time next year we are good with that.
NorCal's TBRC has been Memorial Day Weekend since its inception...
One of the side effects of the growth of the sport is things like 4 great matches all on the same weekend.
So many matches I'd love to attend (including the Cup), but just can't swing 'em all...
I kinda miss the days of it being a medium-small pond, but in the same breath much growth has brought so many good people in.
Now I just need more time, and a lot more money!!!
One of the side effects of the growth of the sport is things like 4 great matches all on the same weekend.
So many matches I'd love to attend (including the Cup), but just can't swing 'em all...
I kinda miss the days of it being a medium-small pond, but in the same breath much growth has brought so many good people in.
Now I just need more time, and a lot more money!!!
Are you thinking of hosting at the same location? Trigger Time provided a great venue.
I have to say that I am in the same boat. 95% (just pulling a number out that sounds good)of my customers come from the hide, even if it is just non-members that ran across our discussions here.
Frank, if you need help, I am sure I can RO during the day and run a night lane when it gets dark.
MY 1st group buy actually helped launch my shop which is extremely small compared to others but works well for me. The Hide also got Woody and my matches advertised out to shooters which have grown to sold out events consistently
I plan on shooting but would RO if needed
Semper Fi
Frank, I stand corrected, and am showing that getting older sucks.
2011 and before used to always be last weekend in May, then Surefire Invitational had to he held Sept in 2012, then they did a Invitational/Members TBRC 2013, but 2014 had their TBRC back to last weekend in May...
Maybe you could do 2... One east.. Maybe peacemaker in wv
I too would love to see an East Coast SHC. The Cup is on my list of someday matches due to the travel logistics.
Put a Hide match somewhere between Pa and FL and it's very doable for a LOT of people. I'm a little biased, but Woody's is a great venue for matches with it's natural terrain, close proximity to RDU, along with abundant accommodations and eateries within 30 minutes. Factor in that Woody just finalized the purchase of an additional 90 acres and has started clearing for a 1k range and some other awesome goodies for early 2015. We also have a very experienced cadre of RO's from multiple disciplines to tap into locally (3gun, USPSA, IDPA) to help run the match.
Pretty please East Coast SHC?
I couldn't make it this year (family commitment) but would love to see it in Colorado again. In fact, I'd like to see it in the same place (yea I live here) every year, I think an east coast Cup would knock a lot of guys out, but I'd help pitch in for your travel expenses bunsen!
I appreciate the offer to cover my travel. Just to clarify I was advocating for an East Coast SHC in addition to the West Coast match. I wouldn't want to take anything away from guys West of the Mississippi. I'm sure a second match would be quite a challenge, but I think the market to support it is there if Frank wants to undertake it.
We have had offers to hold it in the East, RockCastle, etc, have wanted to run it.
So it has always been on the table at some point or another, the question would be time of year, where, etc.
So it has always been on the table at some point or another, the question would be time of year, where, etc.
All work and no play makes Rob a dull boy.
I told my boss this coming year I WILL shoots some matches. Never been a big match guy but I will give it hell this year if I have my way.
I plan on making this one even if I don't make another.
I told my boss this coming year I WILL shoots some matches. Never been a big match guy but I will give it hell this year if I have my way.
I plan on making this one even if I don't make another.
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