Has anyone ever experienced an out of battery discharge with the shield in 40? Brand new I put 5 rounds in the mag today (umc 180gr) I fired the first 3 rounds on the steel plate, as I fired the 4th I felt the initial recoil and then it felt like I was hit with a bat in the hand. The mag blew down, the frame split in 3 places, the fired case bulged out behind the barrel and pushed the extractor out, the case head split at the bottom of case towards mag well, and there is brass all through the barrel which is cracked the length of the barrel. I have no idea if smith n Wesson is going to cover this or even what I should be looking at. Here are a few pics.
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Sidearms & Scatterguns Shield almost took my fingers today
- Thread starter shootindude
- Start date
You sure it fired out of battery?
I dont know if its physically possible or not with the Shield.
To ME I would think if it was an OOB there would be WAY more damage to the slide and barrel at the chamber and it doesnt look like to much damage right there. Looks like a possible double charge, but I am most likely talking out of my ass.
I am sure Smith will want the gun back, probably Remington will want to look at it too.
Somebody(smith or Remington) will take care of it I am sure.
Glad you are ok. Its interesting to see how the gun took it(whatever it was).
I dont know if its physically possible or not with the Shield.
To ME I would think if it was an OOB there would be WAY more damage to the slide and barrel at the chamber and it doesnt look like to much damage right there. Looks like a possible double charge, but I am most likely talking out of my ass.
I am sure Smith will want the gun back, probably Remington will want to look at it too.
Somebody(smith or Remington) will take care of it I am sure.
Glad you are ok. Its interesting to see how the gun took it(whatever it was).
Damn. Glad your ok. I would think the warranty would cover it unless the ammunition was out of spec. They will probably want the lot number from the ammo.
I'm positive no 9mm, all I shoot is 40 and a 45, I'm not sure what to think of what happened, all I could think was out of battery as when it fired the 5th round it doesn't look like the case was chambered, it is protruding bulge behind the chamber and slide is 100% stuck and barrel is broke(cracked the length all the way through)
I can almost guarantee you that smith will tell you to take it up with Remington. Id keep the box and not fire anymore. Id contact them both manufacturers before shipping off to smith (to save you Shipping costs). Just leave the case in there so smith or Remington knows for sure what case it is. Ive seen several ammo manufacturers pay for brand new guns without much hassle when clearly something went wrong with the load.
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That is plain nasty. Keep us posted on results , I own a shield and am interested. My guess would be double charged ammo, but WTF do I know.
If I were you, just to be safe, I would take a video of the whole thing 360 degrees by 360 degrees before you send it out. Glad you're ok!
Glad you're ok, man. Document everything, and don't skip any part. Take way more (and higher quality!) pictures for evidence and maybe even make a video showing the gun from all angles. Don't mess with the gun, parts, or anything else so that whomever is looking at the gun can't blame anything on you, though god knows they might try.
Like someone else said, it looks to me like a double charge, and with a 40 S&W, you're lucky you didn't get hurt. I would think that Remington is at fault here but certainly contact both S&W and Remington; I bet one of them will make it right.
Like someone else said, it looks to me like a double charge, and with a 40 S&W, you're lucky you didn't get hurt. I would think that Remington is at fault here but certainly contact both S&W and Remington; I bet one of them will make it right.
I have a really slow connection and can not see your pictures.
If I understand you to say that the barrel is cracked or bulged, you either had an obstructed bore from a previous round or an over charged case. Out of battery would not damage the barrel.
If I understand you to say that the barrel is cracked or bulged, you either had an obstructed bore from a previous round or an over charged case. Out of battery would not damage the barrel.
Definitely keep us posted on what Smith says. As others have said, looks like a double charge. Glad you are ok...gun parts are easily fixed/replaced...your digits are not.
I carry a Shield (9mm) every day, and I've had zero issues with it...it has eaten every reload and factory self defense ammo I have thrown at it.
I carry a Shield (9mm) every day, and I've had zero issues with it...it has eaten every reload and factory self defense ammo I have thrown at it.
Did the previous round eject? Did you tap and rack the previous? Was there weak ejection or VERY low recoil on the previous round?
Document everything, including your future conversations with the ammo company and get names of who you are talking to. They are going to blame it on reloads. Keep the gun just as it is in the picture now. Keep the rest of the box of ammo. I know you have probably thought thru all this already but just reinforcing it. Good luck, I'm sure you will get a new gun. I saw this happen to a Sig Sauer. 9mm and he got a new gun.
Reloaded ammo?If so was it lead or copper plated,I believe only a obstruction in the barrel would cause that.Double charge I think all new handguns are able to withstand one shot at least.Out of battery I'm not sure the firing pin would hit or the hammer would drop.I did once reload a 380 with a nine charge because the case was similar and on the progressive machine it happened.Anyway still didn't catch it at the range loaded it and click.Checked the weapon and a 380 round.Dam lucky but the pin wouldn't hit I think it would be the same with a nine it might not hit.Also firing a smaller diameter round would fire form and be stuck.the round would make it out the barrel .However it would think the larger round would by being forced into battery would explode and be a catastrophe.Plus shooting lead in certain barrels would clog the lands and grooves causing a blockage and catastrophe due to obstruction in the barrel.If it wasn't reloads send it out and your lucky.
It appears that you suffered either an overcharged round or a barrel obstruction(I would bet on the later after seeing the type damage done). The Shield (all M&P for that matter) are designed to not fire OOB. I have many thousands of rounds thru M&P over the last seven years without issue. The only two detonations I have witnessed were, first, a double charge reload in 40S&W and, second, an over pressure factory load in a Shield 40. Yes, I do indeed know for sure it was ammo related. The fellow had two compact 40 cal guns (a Kahr and a Shield) and the same box of factory ammo blew them both up within three rounds.
Well here are some more photos of it, the copper thru to the outside of the barrel concerned me as it looks like it was pushed thru the lengthwise splits in the barrel, as far as a squib goes i fired 3 rounds heard them hit steel, on the 4th round i felt the initial recoil and then wham like a mack truck to the hand. There was 5 rounds total in the mag and the 5th round is the one i believe that is in the chamber now, it is an empty casing of course but they want me to send it in and they are going to take care of it for me.
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Man that must've been quite a scare. I'd think that the round on the chamber is the fourth one since it's discharged as you mention (from the pics it seems that the firing pin hit the primer). I'd expect to feel 5 discharges otherwise. Make sure you didn't leave any live rounds laying around (maybe inside the mag). Good to know you're alright though.
Found a similar thread online (apologize if there are any rules against posting links):
http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/270084-my-shield-bigger-than-yours-sad-story.html
Could it have been round set back?
Found a similar thread online (apologize if there are any rules against posting links):
http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/270084-my-shield-bigger-than-yours-sad-story.html
Could it have been round set back?
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I'm just going to go with my gut and pick what's behind door #2, which is....overpressure round. The .40 is a high pressure cartridge to begin with; I had an XD40 and really didn't like the feel of the gun when shooting - very sharp and unpleasant. Traded for and XD45, put in PSG trigger and have been very happy.
Thank God you weren't hurt. Like everyone else here says, take plenty of pics, don't disassemble the gun, have a gunsmith willing to vouch for you take a look at it before you send it off; hopefully, you'll have a new gun very soon.
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Thank God you weren't hurt. Like everyone else here says, take plenty of pics, don't disassemble the gun, have a gunsmith willing to vouch for you take a look at it before you send it off; hopefully, you'll have a new gun very soon.
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Have you done any research to see if this has been a problem with the same fire arm in other cases? don't know if I worded that rite..
I had an EAA witness that had a feed problem I did some research and found out it was a common problem.. This is a much more serious problem than a feed issue it just may be in your best interest to see what you can find on the matter.. If this is rare I would go with my first thought on the matter HOT load
I had an EAA witness that had a feed problem I did some research and found out it was a common problem.. This is a much more serious problem than a feed issue it just may be in your best interest to see what you can find on the matter.. If this is rare I would go with my first thought on the matter HOT load
A couple things that it could be-
Overcharge
Bullet setback
Wrong powder
Squib
40S&W seems to be more susceptible to blowing up with any of these.
Overcharge
Bullet setback
Wrong powder
Squib
40S&W seems to be more susceptible to blowing up with any of these.
https://secure05.lwcdirect.com/fron...inType=skipWelcome&clientID=742&campaignID=63
Though it might be part of the recall but Its not, but I am attaching recall link for others..
Though it might be part of the recall but Its not, but I am attaching recall link for others..
Its a 40, they always blow up...just a matter of time. Weak brass, lack of webbing in the case. I've had a few blow up on me in STI limited guns and witnessed more than a dozen with Glocks, Sig, Beretta96 with factory ammo.
Tim3gun's report is frightening! I didn't know that 40's were susceptible to blowing up. Geez, if it is going to blow up, I might as well go with a full house 10mm round. At least that round is designed from the start as a high pressure round. Plus, you can always load it down to a 40 type round's velocity.
I've been around the .40 for years and have never seen one blow up because it was a .40
Once a year we qualify well over 400 LEO's at the SO range from multiple agencies. Following that we run a remedial class twice a month for those that failed to shoot above the requirement of the SO (SO employees only). All of this equates to 1,000's of rounds fired from the .40 S&W from Sig P229's to Glock 22 & 23's in a short period of time. Never a single hick up or blow up, ever.
The same can be said for two local PD's with a combined 400+ officers, all shooting the Glock 22 in .40 S&W. A friend of mine work for a west Texas PD and they use the .40 S&W as well. Zero issues with them, ever.
Granted, some makes of pistols have been known to blow up due to the quality of the issued barrel while using lead reloads but, not because it was a .40.
I've ran 1,000's of rounds of .40 S&W through Glock, Beretta, Sig. and S&W, never an issue, ever.
The "blow up" thing is way overblown. The 40 is a high pressure round, but the problem generally arises from people reloading the brass too many times until there is a case head separation or split at the rear where the ramp is. I have seen it in 10 mm too.
These rare occurrences will often blow the magazine out, break the mag release and make your fingers tingle. There will be evidence of scorching from the powder.
This guy was using factory ammo and either an obstructed barrel or an over charged case. Don't make this something it isn't.
These rare occurrences will often blow the magazine out, break the mag release and make your fingers tingle. There will be evidence of scorching from the powder.
This guy was using factory ammo and either an obstructed barrel or an over charged case. Don't make this something it isn't.
I am with wnroscoe and shootsblanks, the 40 caliber has some extra things to consider if you’re reloading for it... if you are not, it’s a non issue. This is coming from a 40 shooter and reloader with many tens of thousands of rounds down range at matches/practice and our 30+ issued 40s at work did not have a single blow up during the 20+ years we used it either (S&W 4006 and G22).
If you’re going to reload for it make sure you have a supported chamber barrel or get one, (bar sto makes a drop-in for glocks) or at the very least keep track of your brass and its condition...
OP, glad you’re OK! I had a keltec 380 blow up, not as bad as yours. Everything steel survived just not the plastic parts I was holding on to. It did fire from a slightly unlocked/out of battery condition while running lead hard cast lead reloads, blowing everything out the mag well and cracking the plastic frame or handle in a few peices/places... Not a pleasant experience... and I am glad it was winter and I was wearing my kevlar hatch gloves. Keltec took care of me too even though I didn’t follow their printed advice on not using handloads.
If you’re going to reload for it make sure you have a supported chamber barrel or get one, (bar sto makes a drop-in for glocks) or at the very least keep track of your brass and its condition...
OP, glad you’re OK! I had a keltec 380 blow up, not as bad as yours. Everything steel survived just not the plastic parts I was holding on to. It did fire from a slightly unlocked/out of battery condition while running lead hard cast lead reloads, blowing everything out the mag well and cracking the plastic frame or handle in a few peices/places... Not a pleasant experience... and I am glad it was winter and I was wearing my kevlar hatch gloves. Keltec took care of me too even though I didn’t follow their printed advice on not using handloads.
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Upon looking at more pictures of the gun it looks like the gun did exactly what it was supposed to in an overcharge situation: break in a way that wont put the shooter in harm. I'll bet that you will have better results talking to the ammo company.
The one thing I will caution the OP about. Once you send the gun to S&W be patient. They will test thoroughly before making any decision as to cause and that will be quite time consuming. Their metallurgists are very capable of making a determination right down to the type of powder that was in the case. I am saying, from past experience, it will likely take months to get it resolved there and once they determine it is ammo related they will not replace it free. You will be left looking to the ammo maker for restitution.
S&W has one of the best warranties in the business but it will not cover damage from bad ammo.
S&W has one of the best warranties in the business but it will not cover damage from bad ammo.
I had a similar thing happen with another brand of handgun but not as severe but it still sucks.
Guns are easy to replace, limbs are harder and cost a LOT more. I am sure your handgun will be replaced but you will remember it a long time.
A good reminder to always have glasses on and a shooting glove is not a bad idea either.
(Glad you are OK)
Guns are easy to replace, limbs are harder and cost a LOT more. I am sure your handgun will be replaced but you will remember it a long time.
A good reminder to always have glasses on and a shooting glove is not a bad idea either.
(Glad you are OK)
S&W customer service is some of the best I have delt with. Leave it in the condition it is in. You already have pics, but the more you mess with it the harder it is for them to prove what caused it. Give them a call and they will send you a shipping label to send it in.
