Shoot or no shoot?
- Thread starter 308pirate
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For those of us accustomed to navigating suburban traffic on a bicycle, we already know this because we deal with it almost daily. And yeah, I get that some rando on a bike rolled through a four-way stop at 5 MPH two weeks ago and that is apparently a permission slip for everyone on the road to run my ass over because my lawful use of the road is perceived to be some sort of grave injustice
It is interesting to note how much more aggressive the average SUV or pickup truck driver is towards me when I'm driving the wife's Flex vs when I'm driving my 4WD E350 van. It's almost as if this sort of driver is a massive pussy who only picks on soft targets, as if they've regressed towards middle-school hallway bully behavior.
Enough pop psychology... getting back to the scenario posed at the beginning of the thread, it's pretty easy if I'm the victim of the attack - first, attempt to drive out of the situation, and then fight as a distant second option. Once someone crosses the line that separates "impeding my travel" to "violating my personal space in a fashion that puts my physical safety at risk" (this line being drawn somewhere right around opening my vehicle doors without an invitation), then it's a simple matter of applying whichever tactics will keep my family safe. Note that this does require a bit of pre-planning; if I'm stuck bumper-to-bumper with the car in front of me or otherwise boxed-in, I've eliminated my best option. But in this scenario, you've just got bikes and ATVs blocking the path. Probably can't simply drive over them like some here fantasize of doing (this ain't the movies), but demonstrating some intent at forward motion will likely get people to move.
Oh, and lock your fuckin' car doors if the car doesn't already do it for you. Bonus: in the much more likely case of a typical traffic accident, it helps to keep those doors shut, which is generally good for safety.
Stumbling upon this scenario as a 3rd party is a bit more interesting. Unlike many typical social encounters where it may not be quite so clear who is the aggressor and who is the victim, this scenario seems pretty clear. Then the question becomes: how does one best protect the woman and her child without putting one's self and the victims at risk? I mean, if a group of assailants have surrounded a motor vehicle with intent to harm the occupants, it may not be wise to simply draw a pistol and begin dispensing lead into that general direction. Rapidly driving in that direction also has the ability to make matters worse; what if I block the victim's intended escape route? This would be an interesting and challenging scenario to run in a variety of environments.
Well, looks like a bunch of bikers blocking the road like a bunch of dicks. One of these Darwin Award winners decided to brake check a car and got hit. Then this group of "tuff bikers" beat up a woman(edit-seems it was actually a man).
IMO all of these people were acting like morons. The bikers blocking traffic, the lady tailgating, the biker brake checking. etc.
IMO they should all be thrown into a volcano for being stupid.
IMO all of these people were acting like morons. The bikers blocking traffic, the lady tailgating, the biker brake checking. etc.
IMO they should all be thrown into a volcano for being stupid.
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Three words: New York City.
And one of the thugs, the one smashing the back door window, was a NYC cop.
Because of the number of assailants and threats of physical violence, I'd have run them over. If chased, I'd have tried to find law enforcement. If no other option, I'd shoot until the threat was defeated. In my state, the vehicle is an extension of your home. If someone tries to break in, while you're in the car, shoot to stop the threat.
Isn’t moving a person against their will from one place to another (pulling someone out of their car in order to beat the shit out of them) a kidnapping?
I think the bottom line, the core issue here, is:
"Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Author unknown.
"Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Author unknown.
What the DA intends to charge is irrelevant. This is in the context of using deadly force. Kidnapping is one of the several acts where you can use deadly force to stop it.
That's a state-by-state thing. Here in MI, a more pragmatic defense would probably be under the stand-your-ground law that allows use of deadly force if one has a reasonable belief that it is needed to prevent great bodily harm. Probably a good thing to hash out with one's preferred legal expert prior to going armed in public.
This reminds me, if you can is equipped
set doors to auto lock
set doors to NOT auto unlock
set car to ONLY unlock the drivers for for one tap on the unlock button.
Seen enough of these types of videos where the time a locked door would have bought, likely would have had a MAJOR change of outcome, this applies to the self prescribed alpha operators who are the danger too
Soooo, if a lawyer says you might be in legal trouble to use force to prevent being kidnapped/etc, you’re going to let yourself or loved ones to be kidnapped
set doors to auto lock
set doors to NOT auto unlock
set car to ONLY unlock the drivers for for one tap on the unlock button.
Seen enough of these types of videos where the time a locked door would have bought, likely would have had a MAJOR change of outcome, this applies to the self prescribed alpha operators who are the danger too
Soooo, if a lawyer says you might be in legal trouble to use force to prevent being kidnapped/etc, you’re going to let yourself or loved ones to be kidnapped
After some research it appears RI requires the victim to attempt to retreat. In our scenario the victim, in order to retreat, must drive in reverse. So there it is.
If I recall, there were two cops in the gang. The one you mentioned did time for his part.
Soooo, if a lawyer says you might be in legal trouble to use force to prevent being kidnapped/etc, you’re going to let yourself or loved ones to be kidnapped
No, what I'm saying is know your state laws so that you know what to say.
For example, in some states, it's not legal to use deadly force to protect property... but it is legal to use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon. Understanding the difference between those two claims may alter the outcome of a situation. There was a story in a nearby town several years ago that involved a man's attempt at preventing the escape of some burglars that went down this legal path.
From a practical standpoint, the scenario under discussion isn't going to make a distinction between "kidnapping" and "great bodily harm". It's legal semantics. In the heat of the moment, you're fighting for your life, and hopefully your tactics reflect this.
It'd be interesting to learn if "retreat" = "reverse" from a legal perspective. Does this strictly mean "go back in the direction from which you came", or is it a general obligation to attempt to leave the situation before fighting?
Another thought - anyone know how self-defense insurance policies (USCCA, CCW Safe, etc.) would address the use of an automobile in this scenario? USCCA says something about "use of any legal weapons". Looking forward to some insurance underwriter attempting to weasel his way out of coverage because I'm over the state bumper height limit by 1/16"
Note: in case any lawyers or underwriters are reading this, I'm presenting a hypothetical - I'm actual well under the limit by as much as several sixteenths
Note: in case any lawyers or underwriters are reading this, I'm presenting a hypothetical - I'm actual well under the limit by as much as several sixteenths
Do whatever you need to in order to survive. Then shut up. Know your rights and don't trust anyone. Including family, friends, neighbor and media. They will be questioned and anything you said to them will be used against you.
Many, many years ago I was lost in OKC and trying to find my way out of this industrial area in the middle of the night. I drove a Toyota FJ40 with an aftermarket soft top. The doors didn't lock. I pull up to a stop sign and wait for this Democrat to cross the street. He came over and opened the passenger door and started to step in. I drew my 1911A1 National Match and said, "Get in." Now, to this day, I don't know why I had presence of mind to tell this Democrat to get in. I can tell you that I could all of a sudden see his eyes. The fucker wasn't polite enough to get the door closed before he ran back down the road in the direction I had just come.
If I were in the situation presented by the OP, I'd have used reverse and crank and I would not have been trying to move slow enough for the Democrats to get out of the way. Fuck them. If they are hanging on, I find an inanimate object and rely on my comprehensive and deductible. If they use a weapon to break a window, I use a weapon to provide body piercings for fear of the lives of my children and myself.
If I were in the situation presented by the OP, I'd have used reverse and crank and I would not have been trying to move slow enough for the Democrats to get out of the way. Fuck them. If they are hanging on, I find an inanimate object and rely on my comprehensive and deductible. If they use a weapon to break a window, I use a weapon to provide body piercings for fear of the lives of my children and myself.
I think it is the latter. But if you’re surrounded, where are you supposed to retreat?
Second, are you expected to to reasonably ascertain your attacker’s intent (whether to kill you, or merely beat you up a little) while he and a dozen accomplices are pulling you out of the car?
Fear of harm or death. Breaking your finger nail is harm. Fear of breaking a finger nail is sufficient.
Do what you need to and shut up.
If no one is around... SSS!
Y'all need to quit the quibble over the definition of "is".
Do what you need to and shut up.
If no one is around... SSS!
It seems that intentions have been made quite clear once the mob's hands breech the vehicle's interior.
Its as simple as this, you will be judged by the totality of circumstances. Listen to a wise man named Masad Ayoob, he has some good judicial in site on this type of mob violence.
And if you mowed the perps down you will most likely be painted as the aggressor and loose the farm and your freedom.
And if you mowed the perps down you will most likely be painted as the aggressor and loose the farm and your freedom.
As soon as one goes for the door handle, I tell the kid to lay on the floor, put in 4 and hit the gas.
In Ohio they are legally the same exact thing. Not only there is no duty to retreat from you home or vehicle, the OH Revised Code has a built in presumption of intent to inflict death or serious bodily injury against whoever attempts to illegally enter your home (legally place of abode, so not just your house) or vehicle.
Notice I said "attempts", that's no casual wording. That's right from the ORC which means the obvious: you don't have to wait until the intrusion is completed.
which is why she needs to now sue the state for their inability to keep the roads free and clear and her inability to defend herself appropriately. Lawsuits are the only thing that fixes this without people literally marching on town hall
In this scenario things have escalated into deadly force and I guess it's time to find out how many bikers will have the guts to stick around after seeing some of their accomplices crumple to the ground.
These altercations also are why I no longer carry a revolver for self defense except in very limited circumstances and why I don't own any handguns with less than 15 rounds in the magazine.
In fact, concealing a Glock 17 with a 22 round magazine and an SRO is stupid easy AIWB in a Tenicor Velo holster.
Only, if you live in a state that protects the criminal. In Louisiana, those jokers would be justifiably, door nail dead.
Do you remember the “summer of love” all the videos I recall were of citizens being arrested the second they tried to defend themselves from antifa and BLM thugs.
Upstanding looking Asian family in NYC being attacked by the same demographic that seems to always target Asians, that would be a big not guilty for the rover from me.
Lol at hommie the clown saying “we were just going over there to help him” yeah, guess they noticed his tires had too much air and his windows weren’t broken enough…
They started shit in their 400lb bikes with a 5,200lb AWD truck, fucked around and found out. Too bad that mother crying didn’t raise her kid right, probably wouldn’t be in that situation. I hope the funds from all their fast food paychecks or well-fair checks goes to the Asian family for damages.
Good god liberal cities are breeding grounds of that shit
You can tell he’s a kind gentle man from the pillow he has for his arm
But the fabric upholstery, cheap pistol, and linguistic issues have me leaving towards guilty, also interesting shooting style, close your eyes a curl into a fat ball when you start letting er’ rip reminds me of
But not enough footage on that one for me to have any opinion, other than know what’s beyond your target, though cops have shot off the same reckless manner and no one bats a eye so
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That's for sure, wife coming home one night (73 mph on I-90) hit a bundle of insultation which flew out of a trailer in front of her 4500 dollars of damage and no air bags deployed.
Survery says typical Miami third world douchebag who is a likely a pussy out of his car and without his Taurus.
GOD I fucking hate that city
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