Rifle Scopes Shooting for the Mile setup (Nightforce specific)

[DarthStig]

Hi everyone,

Sorry this is so long. Ive tried researching for myself for the right scope and because of all the articles I read Ive gotten more....overwhelmed than I should be... if thats even the right word.

I just recently splurged and grabbed a Desert Tech SRS for a steal. It comes with 4 barrels:

.243 win
.308
6.5 x 47 Lapua
.338 Lapua (This will most likely be what I shoot for the mile, though a shot with a .308 would be epic)

Ive never shot a mile before, 960 is my record and that was with a friend's setup and a few days out at the range to get used to it and work up to the longshot. Ive been looking at Nightforce scopes since, well I dont think I need to go into all the reasons. Weight isnt an issue (since I know most high powered NF scopes are rather cumbersome) since Ill be shooting prone/bench. From what I gathered, ATACR has better glass, better reticle, etc than the NXS line. Is it worth what seems to be an extra $1000? Im not going hunting with this setup, its strictly shooting in daylight at targets. Im fairly certain Im buying from optics planet because they have the best deals overall. The problem is, all the scopes range from $1300 for a 8-32 power to a fully loaded 7-35 for $3500. Then there's the twenty different reticle options. Its overwhelming, at least I narrowed it down to Nightforce....They all have the same objective at 56mm.

I suppose the question(s) is, can I get by with a lower power like the 5-25 so I can use it to comfortably shoot below 500 yards and still use it to hit the mile?

2. Is the ATACR worth the money even though I dont need extra illumination because I wont be hunting with it?

3. Which reticle should I get? Its alot for what seems to be very similar patterns. I dont mind a busy reticle, I just need to know its worth the excess.


Other questions that may or may not belong here...

4. Should I buy a desert tech scope mount or Nightforce? And should I go ahead and buy the 40 MOA model?

5. The bipod coming with the rifle is a cheap $15 model from someone Ive never heard, xaegis. Should I get rid of it and buy something like a Harris?

6. Cheapest spotter scope for the mile worth the money? There are some 50% off Barskas sub $200 with like 90x magnification though the reviews are substandard.

I also want to mention, Ill buy used if you or someone you know is selling their equipment.

Thanks guys!
DS

 

[mdmp5]

The only thing you need to shoot a mile is elevation really. Don’t worry too much about magnification. 5-25 is more than enough, especially if it’s sunny

 

[SageRatSafaris]

>can I get by with a lower power like the 5-25 so I can use it to comfortably shoot below 500 yards and still use it to hit the mile?

Yes. I've shot 2000 yards with 14X (actually more like 12.5X, had to zoom back to expose hold over). I was still able to confidently aim a specific portion of a man-sized silhouette. 18X would be adequate, 25X would be more than plenty.

>2. Is the ATACR worth the money even though I dont need extra illumination because I wont be hunting with it?

The ATACR F1 is awful nice, but you can get the job done with less budget if you want to. Figure the elevation you'll need for a mile (for example, I needed 80 MOA for a mile with 6.5CM at 4350", 100 MOA for 2000 yards), then pick a scope that has that. Scopes with 100 MOA internal elevation and not more than $3395 for the Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25X56 include:

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18X44 ($2000) or Mark 5HD 5-25X56 ($2094 non-illum),
Vortex Razor HD Gen 1 5-20X50 ($1699 ) or Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27X56 ($2499),
March 3-24X42 ($2239) or 3-24X52 ($3299),
Burris XTR2 3-15X50 ($952 )
Bushnell XRS 4.5-30X50 ($1900) or XRS II 4.5-30X50 ($2097) or DMR II 3.5-21X50 ($1459) or ERS 3.5-21X50 ($1585 )
Kahles K525i 5-25X56 ($3299) or K318i 3-18X50 ($3199)
EoTech Vudu 3.5-18X50 ($1497)
Steiner T5Xi 3-15X50 ($2500) or P4Xi 4-16X56 ($1299) or M5Xi 3-15X50 ($3300)
Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29X56 ($1700) or Midas TAC 4-16X44 ($590)
Sightron SV 4.5-24X56 (not sure if released yet)
IOR Valdada 3-25X50 ($3040) or 4-28X50 ($2995) or 5.8-40X56 ($3390)
Sightmark Latitude PRS 6.5-25X56 ($700)
Hi-Lux Phenom 5X-30X56 ($637)
Trijicon AccuPower 4.5-30X56 FFP (MSRP $2675)
Minox ZP5 3-15X50 ($3200) or ZP5 5-25X56 ($2306)
Any SWFA scope (up to $1300)

(See the link in my signature for the full list of all FFP scopes with elevation, reticle and street price data)

>3. Which reticle should I get? Its alot for what seems to be very similar patterns. I dont mind a busy reticle, I just need to know its worth the excess.

Reticle is a big decision, and a very personal one. Take the time to compare and think about how you'll use it.

>4. Should I buy a desert tech scope mount or Nightforce? And should I go ahead and buy the 40 MOA model?

For a scope with 100+ MOA internal elevation, you're pretty safe with a 40 MOA mount. You're only leaving 10 MOA for mounting error and 100 yard zero, but chances are it'll work and give you the maximum available up, which you'll want for shooting past a mile.

>5. The bipod coming with the rifle is a cheap $15 model from someone Ive never heard, xaegis. Should I get rid of it and buy something like a Harris?

Frankly, you may be better served with quality bags, like Dog Gone Good, unless you really want to do "practical" mile shooting.

>6. Cheapest spotter scope for the mile worth the money? There are some 50% off Barskas sub $200 with like 90x magnification though the reviews are substandard.

Because of mirage, on not cold days, you might not be able to see hits with any spotting scope. Put a phone downrange and FaceTime with it? Our WiFi-based target cam couldn't stay connected at a mile. I don't have a good solution for spotting at a mile.

 

[Mooncake]

I have the ATACR 5-25 and man oh man is the glass nice. I have several NXS and NXS compacts as well and the glass is pretty good with those too but the ATACR is clearly a step up. I think a mile is doable with 25x if your eyesight is good. That said, I will eventually buy a 7-35 when I find one for somewhere under $3K.

As far as reticles go, the first step is to decide if you want to think in milrads or MOA. Personally, I'm annoyed by a busy reticle and I like the MIL-R.

 

[CSTactical]

The ATACR in both 5-25 and 7-35 are two of the most popular scopes used in ELR with tons of mechanical elevation built into them and for shooting ELR type distances you'll appreciate the upgrade in the overall optics upgrade the ATACR has over the NXS. We'd be happy to discuss the various pros and cons of the different reticles and help you with your complete setup at 916-670-1103.

 

[longshot2000]

@SageRatSafaris , very nice list. One could add one or two to the list, but that is not helpful. Nightforce has clearly up'd their game with the ATACR. Not that the NXS was any slouch. The 5-25x is a great scope. I think the 7-35x is worth considering. I have not been a big fan of magnification > 25x for a number of reasons, but the 7-35x just seems like a nice fit. Also, it has focus as close as 10m, so pretty versitile.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Thanks @longshot2000. I'm shopping myself for a new long range FFP scope, and I couldn't find a complete list of long range FFP scopes anywhere. So as a labor of love, I compiled a master list of long range FFP scopes (FFP, 14X+, 60+ MOA elevation). 100+ scopes. Having a master list handy made it easy to put together the list in my earlier reply.

 

[pucker]

Thanks @longshot2000. I'm shopping myself for a new long range FFP scope, and I couldn't find a complete list of long range FFP scopes anywhere. So as a labor of love, I compiled a master list of long range FFP scopes (FFP, 14X+, 60+ MOA elevation). 100+ scopes. Having a master list handy made it easy to put together the list in my earlier reply.

Appreciate the legwork!

 

[ThunderRun]

>can I get by with a lower power like the 5-25 so I can use it to comfortably shoot below 500 yards and still use it to hit the mile?

Yes. I've shot 2000 yards with 14X (actually more like 12.5X, had to zoom back to expose hold over). I was still able to confidently aim a specific portion of a man-sized silhouette. 18X would be adequate, 25X would be more than plenty.

>2. Is the ATACR worth the money even though I dont need extra illumination because I wont be hunting with it?

The ATACR F1 is awful nice, but you can get the job done with less budget if you want to. Figure the elevation you'll need for a mile (for example, I needed 80 MOA for a mile with 6.5CM at 4350", 100 MOA for 2000 yards), then pick a scope that has that. Scopes with 100 MOA internal elevation and not more than $3395 for the Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25X56 include:

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18X44 ($2000) or Mark 5HD 5-25X56 ($2094 non-illum),
Vortex Razor HD Gen 1 5-20X50 ($1699 ) or Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27X56 ($2499),
March 3-24X42 ($2239) or 3-24X52 ($3299),
Burris XTR2 3-15X50 ($952 )
Bushnell XRS 4.5-30X50 ($1900) or XRS II 4.5-30X50 ($2097) or DMR II 3.5-21X50 ($1459) or ERS 3.5-21X50 ($1585 )
Kahles K525i 5-25X56 ($3299) or K318i 3-18X50 ($3199)
EoTech Vudu 3.5-18X50 ($1497)
Steiner T5Xi 3-15X50 ($2500) or P4Xi 4-16X56 ($1299) or M5Xi 3-15X50 ($3300)
Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29X56 ($1700) or Midas TAC 4-16X44 ($590)
Sightron SV 4.5-24X56 (not sure if released yet)
IOR Valdada 3-25X50 ($3040) or 4-28X50 ($2995) or 5.8-40X56 ($3390)
Sightmark Latitude PRS 6.5-25X56 ($700)
Hi-Lux Phenom 5X-30X56 ($637)
Trijicon AccuPower 4.5-30X56 FFP (MSRP $2675)
Minox ZP5 3-15X50 ($3200) or ZP5 5-25X56 ($2306)
Any SWFA scope (up to $1300)

(See the link in my signature for the full list of all FFP scopes with elevation, reticle and street price data)

>3. Which reticle should I get? Its alot for what seems to be very similar patterns. I dont mind a busy reticle, I just need to know its worth the excess.

Reticle is a big decision, and a very personal one. Take the time to compare and think about how you'll use it.

>4. Should I buy a desert tech scope mount or Nightforce? And should I go ahead and buy the 40 MOA model?

For a scope with 100+ MOA internal elevation, you're pretty safe with a 40 MOA mount. You're only leaving 10 MOA for mounting error and 100 yard zero, but chances are it'll work and give you the maximum available up, which you'll want for shooting past a mile.

>5. The bipod coming with the rifle is a cheap $15 model from someone Ive never heard, xaegis. Should I get rid of it and buy something like a Harris?

Frankly, you may be better served with quality bags, like Dog Gone Good, unless you really want to do "practical" mile shooting.

>6. Cheapest spotter scope for the mile worth the money? There are some 50% off Barskas sub $200 with like 90x magnification though the reviews are substandard.

Because of mirage, on not cold days, you might not be able to see hits with any spotting scope. Put a phone downrange and FaceTime with it? Our WiFi-based target cam couldn't stay connected at a mile. I don't have a good solution for spotting at a mile.

I definitely agree, any scope with 100+ MOA total elevation adjustment. I too would use a 40 MOA rail. You're starting to cant that scope pretty good so pay attention to your barrel profile (in your case handguard) and ring heights for clearance. I wonder if Warnes new Angleye rings would be high enough with the 6mm spacer? They allow for 0-90 MOA. Like you mentioned shooting a .308 to 1+ miles, I too enjoy pushing rounds further than the cartridges intended use.

https://athlonoptics.com/product-category/rifle-scopes/cronus-btr/
https://warnescopemounts.com/product/angleye-34mm/

 

[LawnMM]

Figure out the scope first, then you can do the math for what height and can't will get you the most usable elevation out of that scope.

I'd think about the 7-35 ATACR if I were you and a Mile was my goal.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I can tell you that you will need a 40moa base. I have hit 1mile with my 6.5CM on a couple occasions. I am NOT saying I can just lay down, dial it up, and clang, clang. But, I have made it a couple times. I’m running a S&B in a Spuhr Mount on top of my A.I. The Spuhr gives me 20moa, and the A.I. rail is 20moa as well. Dialing a Hornady 147 ELD-M to a mile requires 22.5 mils at MY altitude. I can dial 20.5 and use 2mils of reticle. It’s doable, but obviously it’s not ideal. For the cartridge or the set up. It’s DOABLE. I am far outside of the supersonic range of my 6.5CM. I go sub sonic around 1500yds here at 2000’ altitude.

Just giving my advise based on my personal experience.

 

[A5scott]

I think of the 4 calibers you listed, you can use the 6.5x47 and the 338 LM. You'll want some cant in your setup, 20 or 30 MOA should be plenty, though depending on the optic 40MOA will work. Some recommend dialing and leaving it when in storeage so the erector isn't bottomed out.
I've shot my 6.5x47 to 1700 yards with factory Lapua 139 scenar ammo, using a 4.5-27x gen 2 Razor. I could spot most of my own splashes in the sandy hill behind the target. I didn't get any hits at 1700, as I was pretty new to long range shooting, but my buddy went 2 for 4 at 1700 with my setup. I'm sure the hit probability would be less than 50% had he continued shooting, but it's totally doable. Most of my misses were not by much. I was using the rear monopod, and when I switched to a rear bag weeks later, my ability to hit sub MOA targets at 1000 yards went way up. I also load my own for this rifle now, so that will help with the hit probability as well. Ammo will play a big part in your hit probability as well.

So, anything with great glass, and great turrets. I don't think you can go wrong with NF atacr F1, I kind of dig the mil-c. Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25 H2CMR, can be found for good deals under $2500 for second hand, Kahles 6-24 (SKMR OR SKMR3), Vortex gen 2 Razor (EBR-2C), Minox ZP5, Tangent Theta. Look at images of reticles, and figure out which ones your eye likes and that will help narrow your choice of scope. 25x is plenty, depending on eyesight of course. If you find a deal on the 7-35x that may be the way to go, you can always dial down. or find a minty second hand 5-25 ATACR F1 and save some money.
You kind of want the 34mm tube for the available elevation adjustment.

so you bought a kick butt top end rifle, it kind of deserves something great to top it off. Get an awesome mount too, spuhr, aadmount, MPA, etc.. there are lots of great options. Good deals on Spuhr mounts in the for sale section here as well.

Atlas, harris, accutac, yes, get something better if you can.

spot your own misses/hits using your scope, and do the same for your buddy, save a couple hundred on a spotting scope and put that toward a bipod or whatever.

so this is all "just like my opinion man" so if this helps at all great... if not I hope you get better advise on here and find what you are looking for.

Scott

 

[Vargmat]

Dont make the rookie mistake in thinking that you need loads of magnification to hit targets at long range. You will do fine with x15 or around there. A lot of times, mirage will be a pain in the neck and it will only be more visible with more magnification. Buy the best scope you can, you wont regret it.
Get a good bipod and dont bother with a spotting scope, especially a cheap one, I promise that you wont see as much as you expect to do.

 

[Mooncake]

I picked up a demo ATACR 7-35 today from MHS. Stoked to get it!