Here's how we shoot groups at work.
Two off the hood, two off the trunk. Car is running.
Range, 64 yards.
Two off the hood, two off the trunk. Car is running.
Range, 64 yards.
Photos Shooting Groups
- Thread starter LoneWolfUSMC
- Start date
Re: Shooting Groups
Your grouping is high to the right of where it should be. You should be grouping directly under the nose, and above the lip so you zip the motor base as the bullet exits
Your grouping is high to the right of where it should be. You should be grouping directly under the nose, and above the lip so you zip the motor base as the bullet exits
Re: Shooting Groups
That's great, except the head was turned slightly to the right.
Center mass, ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS about a medulla shot. We have spoken to a number of trauma surgeons and neuros. If you put a .308 into the cranial vault all the King's horses and all the King's men, ain't going to fix 'ole Humpty's melon.
That's great, except the head was turned slightly to the right.
Center mass, ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS about a medulla shot. We have spoken to a number of trauma surgeons and neuros. If you put a .308 into the cranial vault all the King's horses and all the King's men, ain't going to fix 'ole Humpty's melon.
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you compensate for mechanical offset at 64 yards? </div></div>
No. I find that you don't really need to compensate until you get closer than 50. Even then, for the real world failing to do so won't turn a hit into a miss. It just won't be the desired level of precision.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chansen49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yikes! Does the car running affect it much? </div></div>
Not much when it's smooth. If it starts so studded or miss then it can. Usually wind or some jackass in the car will have more of an effect on POA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you guys get those heads? Cosmetology supply? </div></div>
Beauty Schools donate them when they are done. We get them with some pretty funky hair.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good training, man! </div></div>
I was determined to get us off the ground and off the 100 yard line this month. It's hard not to fall into a rut, especially when it's not the nicest weather.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you compensate for mechanical offset at 64 yards? </div></div>
No. I find that you don't really need to compensate until you get closer than 50. Even then, for the real world failing to do so won't turn a hit into a miss. It just won't be the desired level of precision.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chansen49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yikes! Does the car running affect it much? </div></div>
Not much when it's smooth. If it starts so studded or miss then it can. Usually wind or some jackass in the car will have more of an effect on POA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Angstrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you guys get those heads? Cosmetology supply? </div></div>
Beauty Schools donate them when they are done. We get them with some pretty funky hair.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good training, man! </div></div>
I was determined to get us off the ground and off the 100 yard line this month. It's hard not to fall into a rut, especially when it's not the nicest weather.
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good training, man! </div></div>
I was determined to get us off the ground and off the 100 yard line this month. It's hard not to fall into a rut, especially when it's not the nicest weather. </div></div>
Most of my clients don't have access to cool stuff to shoot off for practice. I advocate buying a portable saw horse and shooting off every inch of it.
The heat and vibration of a patrol vehicle adds a real-world value for practice. The engine heat and instability of the vehicle in the wind can make easy 100 yard shots a real pain in the ass.
I had a guy once who insisted he shoot off the hood of his welding truck because it weighs 7000 lbs, that's the way he shoots, and the weight could not be affected by the engine idling or wind blowing......
He doesn't shoot that way any more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good training, man! </div></div>
I was determined to get us off the ground and off the 100 yard line this month. It's hard not to fall into a rut, especially when it's not the nicest weather. </div></div>
Most of my clients don't have access to cool stuff to shoot off for practice. I advocate buying a portable saw horse and shooting off every inch of it.
The heat and vibration of a patrol vehicle adds a real-world value for practice. The engine heat and instability of the vehicle in the wind can make easy 100 yard shots a real pain in the ass.
I had a guy once who insisted he shoot off the hood of his welding truck because it weighs 7000 lbs, that's the way he shoots, and the weight could not be affected by the engine idling or wind blowing......
He doesn't shoot that way any more.
Re: Shooting Groups
looks like your dept needs to pony up for some light bars from the 21st century....
looks like your dept needs to pony up for some light bars from the 21st century....
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">roughly, how long does it take from the time you pull up to sending the first round ? </div></div>
Fast.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">roughly, how long does it take from the time you pull up to sending the first round ? </div></div>
Fast.
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I advocate buying a portable saw horse and shooting off every inch of it.
</div></div>
A folding chair is another good makeshift training barricade. I also have a 2x4 "ladder" that I train with. The "rungs" are setup at the same heights as the barricade steps at one of the large competitions I do. I found that the heights they use are just a couple inches away from being comfortable. So I am never quite in a steady position.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I advocate buying a portable saw horse and shooting off every inch of it.
</div></div>
A folding chair is another good makeshift training barricade. I also have a 2x4 "ladder" that I train with. The "rungs" are setup at the same heights as the barricade steps at one of the large competitions I do. I found that the heights they use are just a couple inches away from being comfortable. So I am never quite in a steady position.
Re: Shooting Groups
We have done something similar with custody vans, shooting out the open back or side doors with it running, and use those same beauty school heads. It does add a measure of difficulty and changes up the training, much needed variety. Like you said get em up off the ground and throw some variance in the range, we will sometimes use three or five of them and put some target ID into it as well.
We have done something similar with custody vans, shooting out the open back or side doors with it running, and use those same beauty school heads. It does add a measure of difficulty and changes up the training, much needed variety. Like you said get em up off the ground and throw some variance in the range, we will sometimes use three or five of them and put some target ID into it as well.
Re: Shooting Groups
Is that a range car or your Patrol Car>?
Nice to have such focus on your job and keep your ability up to speed..
Is that a range car or your Patrol Car>?
Nice to have such focus on your job and keep your ability up to speed..
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a range car or your Patrol Car>?
Nice to have such focus on your job and keep your ability up to speed.. </div></div>
That is actually one of the other Sniper's patrol car. Mine is a couple years older. The light bars aren't going anywhere until they die. I think we have a total of six or seven LED bars on the 2010 and newer cars.
Last year our department came into NTOA standards and gave us out own day for Sniper training independent of the rest of the team. This allowed us to change our training up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ASM1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a range car or your Patrol Car>?
Nice to have such focus on your job and keep your ability up to speed.. </div></div>
That is actually one of the other Sniper's patrol car. Mine is a couple years older. The light bars aren't going anywhere until they die. I think we have a total of six or seven LED bars on the 2010 and newer cars.
Last year our department came into NTOA standards and gave us out own day for Sniper training independent of the rest of the team. This allowed us to change our training up.
Re: Shooting Groups
I do about 90% of my shooting also off either the roof, hood, or trunk of my patrol car.....but I always shut off the engine....just takes a twist of the key & eliminates one more variable that could mess up a shot.
I need to get some of the mannequin heads....that's too cool!
I do about 90% of my shooting also off either the roof, hood, or trunk of my patrol car.....but I always shut off the engine....just takes a twist of the key & eliminates one more variable that could mess up a shot.
I need to get some of the mannequin heads....that's too cool!
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i do better out the window with a spotlight </div></div>
While tring not to spill your beer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tarzan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i do better out the window with a spotlight </div></div>
While tring not to spill your beer.
Re: Shooting Groups
What about practicing shooting through the crack of the open door, between the open door and the front windshield pillar? I thought that was a desired position for police, doesn't seem that stable, though.
Nate
What about practicing shooting through the crack of the open door, between the open door and the front windshield pillar? I thought that was a desired position for police, doesn't seem that stable, though.
Nate
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about practicing shooting through the crack of the open door, between the open door and the front windshield pillar? I thought that was a desired position for police, doesn't seem that stable, though.
Nate</div></div>
I'd rather heve the front of the car and the engine between me and any return than a windshield and a door!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about practicing shooting through the crack of the open door, between the open door and the front windshield pillar? I thought that was a desired position for police, doesn't seem that stable, though.
Nate</div></div>
I'd rather heve the front of the car and the engine between me and any return than a windshield and a door!
Re: Shooting Groups
I am certainly out of my realm, but unless a perpetrator waits for him to finish the shot before returning fire it looks to me like he is atop the vehicle, not behind it. I suppose he could get behind it quickly. At least his legs are behind it?
I am certainly out of my realm, but unless a perpetrator waits for him to finish the shot before returning fire it looks to me like he is atop the vehicle, not behind it. I suppose he could get behind it quickly. At least his legs are behind it?
Re: Shooting Groups
its great to train the way you fight but ive busted windshields shooting like that...the muzzle blast can really do a number on them
its great to train the way you fight but ive busted windshields shooting like that...the muzzle blast can really do a number on them
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNate</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I thought that was a desired position for police</div></div>
So did LAPD until North Hollywood....
John, if you find a match where the barricade "steps" are at the comfortable height for standing, kneeling and seated then you found a match needs a new prop builder
We refer to most support props around here as "F You" items....
Glad to see you got dedicated training time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigNate</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I thought that was a desired position for police</div></div>
So did LAPD until North Hollywood....
John, if you find a match where the barricade "steps" are at the comfortable height for standing, kneeling and seated then you found a match needs a new prop builder
We refer to most support props around here as "F You" items....
Glad to see you got dedicated training time.
S
Seth8541
Guest
Re: Shooting Groups
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your grouping is high to the right of where it should be. You should be grouping directly under the nose, and above the lip so you zip the motor base as the bullet exits </div></div>
His group is right in the T Box. Anywhere in there is as good as it gets.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your grouping is high to the right of where it should be. You should be grouping directly under the nose, and above the lip so you zip the motor base as the bullet exits </div></div>
His group is right in the T Box. Anywhere in there is as good as it gets.
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