I know that definitions of extreme cold may vary but it's just below zero (fahrenheit)here righ now and I am going to go shoot my rig just to see if everything works right. Anyone have any extreme cold shooting experience or tips?
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Advanced Marksmanship Shooting in extreme cold
- Thread starter larbhills
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Re: Shooting in extreme cold
No lube at all, # 2 pencil lead works well even on machine-guns. Amb temp, and how hot you get her, she'll make water depending % of rh and can freeze up, fast. For each 10-12* of drop at 0* or below I find about 1 moa drop. More Clothing for colder temps will move eye relief a lot off hand, let alone prone.
Worst I've ever shot in was -38* per the thermo, but then again that was the lowest reading the bulb had, they said. Metal will break and do funny stuff at that temp. Springs get really slow right before they break, down there as well.
No lube at all, # 2 pencil lead works well even on machine-guns. Amb temp, and how hot you get her, she'll make water depending % of rh and can freeze up, fast. For each 10-12* of drop at 0* or below I find about 1 moa drop. More Clothing for colder temps will move eye relief a lot off hand, let alone prone.
Worst I've ever shot in was -38* per the thermo, but then again that was the lowest reading the bulb had, they said. Metal will break and do funny stuff at that temp. Springs get really slow right before they break, down there as well.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Well, I have been dry firing quite a bit. I just want to take it out and see how it runs in the cold! Also, I had a really good IMR 4895 load and it just fell apart in the cold so I want to see if my Varget load holds up.
Well, I have been dry firing quite a bit. I just want to take it out and see how it runs in the cold! Also, I had a really good IMR 4895 load and it just fell apart in the cold so I want to see if my Varget load holds up.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I have shot some in cold conditions. If you are having a problem w/ being cold like shivering contract every muscle in your body after getting on target and ready to break the shot then relax just before breaking it. Your shivering will stop for a second or two. Also my bigest problem is numb fingers , everything else I can deal with , chemical heaters are the best for getting the feeling back. I also have experenced on very cold and windy days my eye balls would feel like they were freezing and get a little blury. I dont know what to do other than blink some. If you are shooting prone or sitting get a good thick shooting mat or ass pad to put between you and the ground/seat. The cold ground or snow will realy suck the heat out from you. Also if you are walking to check or pull your targets take it easy especially in deep snow , dont start to sweat! All that aside have fun!
I have shot some in cold conditions. If you are having a problem w/ being cold like shivering contract every muscle in your body after getting on target and ready to break the shot then relax just before breaking it. Your shivering will stop for a second or two. Also my bigest problem is numb fingers , everything else I can deal with , chemical heaters are the best for getting the feeling back. I also have experenced on very cold and windy days my eye balls would feel like they were freezing and get a little blury. I dont know what to do other than blink some. If you are shooting prone or sitting get a good thick shooting mat or ass pad to put between you and the ground/seat. The cold ground or snow will realy suck the heat out from you. Also if you are walking to check or pull your targets take it easy especially in deep snow , dont start to sweat! All that aside have fun!
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Took my 243REMY VLS out today in -20C to try some new rounds I had loaded. 38 39 and 40grs of IMR 4064 behind some 87gr Hornady V-max in a standard 1 in 9.25 twist. Holes were around the one inch group WITH THE 40 gr giving the best group ,seemed to have no problems with the rifle.
CHEERS
Took my 243REMY VLS out today in -20C to try some new rounds I had loaded. 38 39 and 40grs of IMR 4064 behind some 87gr Hornady V-max in a standard 1 in 9.25 twist. Holes were around the one inch group WITH THE 40 gr giving the best group ,seemed to have no problems with the rifle.
CHEERS
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I went shooting about a month ago and it was 70. Dude I froze my butt off.
Sorry guys but I really don't envy you guys that have to live in that cold of weather. I am sure you get used to it but dang it zero degrees? I just could not function.
I went shooting about a month ago and it was 70. Dude I froze my butt off.
Sorry guys but I really don't envy you guys that have to live in that cold of weather. I am sure you get used to it but dang it zero degrees? I just could not function.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
A friend and I shot last winter I think it was around 30 degrees add some
wind chill and are groups were just horrible. The groups were atleast 1 moa
larger than usual for both of us. The groups were consistantly big the whole shoot and pretty much typical in my experience for cold shooting. I wore triple
layers but it was so cold it was just uncomfortable and I think even concentrating on the fundamentals didn't show any improvments.
A friend and I shot last winter I think it was around 30 degrees add some
wind chill and are groups were just horrible. The groups were atleast 1 moa
larger than usual for both of us. The groups were consistantly big the whole shoot and pretty much typical in my experience for cold shooting. I wore triple
layers but it was so cold it was just uncomfortable and I think even concentrating on the fundamentals didn't show any improvments.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I like the cold or did at least. When the air is filled with ice crystals (alaskans know about this) and the air is dead still looking over massive wilderness, has to be experienced.
The only issue I had with bolt guns was scope turrets not wanting to go clicky click, parallax knob very stiff and eye piece on spotting scope froze. Both my 700 and GAP always went pop to around -35, this is about as cold as I shot them but I did shoot them routinely in the -20s.
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
10/22 had some issues, 597 did not.
I have never did anything different with lube, Breakfree on semis and a dab of grease on the bolt.
I shot prone using a closed cell foam pad and then TAB shooting mat. I never used gloves on the trigger even at -30, my hands would not get cold for the time it took to empty 308 10 rounder. I never really got cold or chilled.
Avoid breathing directly on ocular, my rifle and scope would be frost covered by my breath and the ice fog, I breathed out the left side of my mouth when on the gun.
Bipod would sink in the snow, I built little ice ledges dropping water on the snow till it froze, its easy to lose brass in 3 feet of snow, its easy to lose anything in 3 feet of lose powder snow.
-30 on a Jan afternoon in the sun is blinding, good sunglasses and they will fog is a good idea.
While I prefer skis, when firearms involved I used snowshoes to get around.
I used a Primus thermos of hot water and brought soup and coffee packets.
Avoid rolling down rig windows, you been warned. Do not slamm closed glass hatches on SUVs, do not drop your warm keys from your pocket in the snow, pick them up and then in the ignition, do not make your troops mad or you may come out to go and home and find out spray bottles of water was sprayed on you rig during your shift and its quarter inch thick or buried by a front end loader.
I think shooting in the winter and cold is more fun because only the tuffest show up so you usually are alone.
I like the cold or did at least. When the air is filled with ice crystals (alaskans know about this) and the air is dead still looking over massive wilderness, has to be experienced.
The only issue I had with bolt guns was scope turrets not wanting to go clicky click, parallax knob very stiff and eye piece on spotting scope froze. Both my 700 and GAP always went pop to around -35, this is about as cold as I shot them but I did shoot them routinely in the -20s.
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
10/22 had some issues, 597 did not.
I have never did anything different with lube, Breakfree on semis and a dab of grease on the bolt.
I shot prone using a closed cell foam pad and then TAB shooting mat. I never used gloves on the trigger even at -30, my hands would not get cold for the time it took to empty 308 10 rounder. I never really got cold or chilled.
Avoid breathing directly on ocular, my rifle and scope would be frost covered by my breath and the ice fog, I breathed out the left side of my mouth when on the gun.
Bipod would sink in the snow, I built little ice ledges dropping water on the snow till it froze, its easy to lose brass in 3 feet of snow, its easy to lose anything in 3 feet of lose powder snow.
-30 on a Jan afternoon in the sun is blinding, good sunglasses and they will fog is a good idea.
While I prefer skis, when firearms involved I used snowshoes to get around.
I used a Primus thermos of hot water and brought soup and coffee packets.
Avoid rolling down rig windows, you been warned. Do not slamm closed glass hatches on SUVs, do not drop your warm keys from your pocket in the snow, pick them up and then in the ignition, do not make your troops mad or you may come out to go and home and find out spray bottles of water was sprayed on you rig during your shift and its quarter inch thick or buried by a front end loader.
I think shooting in the winter and cold is more fun because only the tuffest show up so you usually are alone.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
The Alaska NG, or most of it anyway, does their training in the Winter, with most of the summer off.
I spent a great deal of time on the Seward Penn, (Nome area, then it was the 1st BN 297th Inf). We did our drills and AT in the winter, including weapon qualification. M16s run is sub temps (-40 and colder). They need to be dry or lubed with graphite. Did try some senthetic (sp) oil on machine gusn (M-60s) it works but its best to get the gun warmed up with a few rounds before you squirt the oil in.
The biggest problems was the natives bringing the guns inside the tents (10 man tents with yukon stoves). They get warm and sweat, then the mosisture instantly freezes when you go outside. The best thing to do then is take the bolt out, stick it inside your shirt until its thawed, then put back in a gun, fire a mag to warm it up. Once they start shooting they are good to go. That is if you don't keep your guns outside like you're suppose to.
We shot our sniper rifles, (M1C/Ds & M21s) dry. You don't normally shoot that many rounds with sniper systems. It doesn't take many 30 cal rounds to warm up a gun if you can keep it dry to start with.
Cold, like rain, affects the shooter more then the gun.
We had those trigger finger mittens but I didnt like the feel so I cut the trigger figer part of the glove off and when not shooting just pulled my trigger finger inside the glove. Didn't notice that hole in the glove that much, but I sure noticed the differance with a none gloved finger when it came to trigger control
Once one gets to understand it, winters can be enjoyable, even well below zero.
I was the XO of A Company (St Lawrence Island) when we were practicing for and Shot the CNGB Postal match, in Feb, it didn't get above -30. We were shooting M16A1 with sub cal devices. Not only did it work, we won the state and went to Nashvile for the NGB Championships. If you can keep a 22 Sub Cal device running and WINNING at -30 you can keep anything going.
Cowboy up and go shooting.
The Alaska NG, or most of it anyway, does their training in the Winter, with most of the summer off.
I spent a great deal of time on the Seward Penn, (Nome area, then it was the 1st BN 297th Inf). We did our drills and AT in the winter, including weapon qualification. M16s run is sub temps (-40 and colder). They need to be dry or lubed with graphite. Did try some senthetic (sp) oil on machine gusn (M-60s) it works but its best to get the gun warmed up with a few rounds before you squirt the oil in.
The biggest problems was the natives bringing the guns inside the tents (10 man tents with yukon stoves). They get warm and sweat, then the mosisture instantly freezes when you go outside. The best thing to do then is take the bolt out, stick it inside your shirt until its thawed, then put back in a gun, fire a mag to warm it up. Once they start shooting they are good to go. That is if you don't keep your guns outside like you're suppose to.
We shot our sniper rifles, (M1C/Ds & M21s) dry. You don't normally shoot that many rounds with sniper systems. It doesn't take many 30 cal rounds to warm up a gun if you can keep it dry to start with.
Cold, like rain, affects the shooter more then the gun.
We had those trigger finger mittens but I didnt like the feel so I cut the trigger figer part of the glove off and when not shooting just pulled my trigger finger inside the glove. Didn't notice that hole in the glove that much, but I sure noticed the differance with a none gloved finger when it came to trigger control
Once one gets to understand it, winters can be enjoyable, even well below zero.
I was the XO of A Company (St Lawrence Island) when we were practicing for and Shot the CNGB Postal match, in Feb, it didn't get above -30. We were shooting M16A1 with sub cal devices. Not only did it work, we won the state and went to Nashvile for the NGB Championships. If you can keep a 22 Sub Cal device running and WINNING at -30 you can keep anything going.
Cowboy up and go shooting.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Something I didn't see mentioned in this thread is bullet stability. All bullets are less stable when air density is higher. Air density increases with:
1. Lower temperature
2. Lower elevation
3. Higher barometric pressure
4 Lower humidity (a small effect).
Loads which shoot great at moderate temperatures may not be stable and give terrible accuracy in arctic conditions.
Some powders give unstable performance when cold. One solution for that is using a detachable magazine and keeping the ammo near your body until you're ready to shoot. Moisture in the action can freeze a bolt solid. Moisture frozen in a barrel can blow up a gun when it's fired.
Before going on an expensive hunting trip it's a good idea to test your equipment for both function and accuracy in similar conditions to where you'll be hunting.
Something I didn't see mentioned in this thread is bullet stability. All bullets are less stable when air density is higher. Air density increases with:
1. Lower temperature
2. Lower elevation
3. Higher barometric pressure
4 Lower humidity (a small effect).
Loads which shoot great at moderate temperatures may not be stable and give terrible accuracy in arctic conditions.
Some powders give unstable performance when cold. One solution for that is using a detachable magazine and keeping the ammo near your body until you're ready to shoot. Moisture in the action can freeze a bolt solid. Moisture frozen in a barrel can blow up a gun when it's fired.
Before going on an expensive hunting trip it's a good idea to test your equipment for both function and accuracy in similar conditions to where you'll be hunting.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went shooting about a month ago and it was 70. Dude I froze my butt off.
Sorry guys but I really don't envy you guys that have to live in that cold of weather. I am sure you get used to it but dang it zero degrees? I just could not function. </div></div>
Yes, but we can still shoot real lead bullets, buy firearms from just about everybody, and don't have any such thing as rush hour or traffic. Hell, they don't even sell sunscreen here. I can't think of the last time I got too hot outside, and my cars don't have air conditioning. Works for me. Worst cold I have shot in was -53 F air temp with no malfunctions, and my Varget load performed flawlessly. No mirage to deal with that day in northern MN.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went shooting about a month ago and it was 70. Dude I froze my butt off.
Sorry guys but I really don't envy you guys that have to live in that cold of weather. I am sure you get used to it but dang it zero degrees? I just could not function. </div></div>
Yes, but we can still shoot real lead bullets, buy firearms from just about everybody, and don't have any such thing as rush hour or traffic. Hell, they don't even sell sunscreen here. I can't think of the last time I got too hot outside, and my cars don't have air conditioning. Works for me. Worst cold I have shot in was -53 F air temp with no malfunctions, and my Varget load performed flawlessly. No mirage to deal with that day in northern MN.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: larbhills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have been dry firing quite a bit. I just want to take it out and see how it runs in the cold! Also, I had a really good IMR 4895 load and it just fell apart in the cold so I want to see if my Varget load holds up.</div></div>
Try the H4895 and work up to where it worked as good as the IMR. The problem with IMR is it is uncoated. It's one of the original flavors created by DuPont to compete with Hodgdon. I have lost as much as 400 fps on some loads with it. But, it's always been consistent shot to shot whether it was cold outside or not.
Edit:
The Varget will definitely hold velocity better than the IMR. It is one of the series of Hodgdon "Extreme" powders. The kernels are reduced in size and heavily coated with burn retardant. It's good chit!
EditII:
FWIW, I've done a lot of testing on sub-zero days here in MN. I say it's the only way your gonna know what you want to know. As to what others mentioned about the rifle itself, yes, don't let condensation get to the gun. Keep a small bottle of rubbing alcohol, it helps. Cold stops all action. Regular lube turns into hardened grease. I used to fire it dry, but I never had access to "dry" lubricants. Try the graphite, like noted, and see how it works for you. The time to trust it is not the time when it may or may not mean your life. find out if what you want to use is going to work in subzero. If it works better in the super cold by all means get some and use it!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: larbhills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have been dry firing quite a bit. I just want to take it out and see how it runs in the cold! Also, I had a really good IMR 4895 load and it just fell apart in the cold so I want to see if my Varget load holds up.</div></div>
Try the H4895 and work up to where it worked as good as the IMR. The problem with IMR is it is uncoated. It's one of the original flavors created by DuPont to compete with Hodgdon. I have lost as much as 400 fps on some loads with it. But, it's always been consistent shot to shot whether it was cold outside or not.
Edit:
The Varget will definitely hold velocity better than the IMR. It is one of the series of Hodgdon "Extreme" powders. The kernels are reduced in size and heavily coated with burn retardant. It's good chit!
EditII:
FWIW, I've done a lot of testing on sub-zero days here in MN. I say it's the only way your gonna know what you want to know. As to what others mentioned about the rifle itself, yes, don't let condensation get to the gun. Keep a small bottle of rubbing alcohol, it helps. Cold stops all action. Regular lube turns into hardened grease. I used to fire it dry, but I never had access to "dry" lubricants. Try the graphite, like noted, and see how it works for you. The time to trust it is not the time when it may or may not mean your life. find out if what you want to use is going to work in subzero. If it works better in the super cold by all means get some and use it!
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the cold or did at least. When the air is filled with ice crystals (alaskans know about this) and the air is dead still looking over massive wilderness, has to be experienced.
The only issue I had with bolt guns was scope turrets not wanting to go clicky click, parallax knob very stiff and eye piece on spotting scope froze. Both my 700 and GAP always went pop to around -35, this is about as cold as I shot them but I did shoot them routinely in the -20s.
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
Could you elaborate on the pistols malfuntions?
10/22 had some issues, 597 did not.
I have never did anything different with lube, Breakfree on semis and a dab of grease on the bolt.
I shot prone using a closed cell foam pad and then TAB shooting mat. I never used gloves on the trigger even at -30, my hands would not get cold for the time it took to empty 308 10 rounder. I never really got cold or chilled.
Avoid breathing directly on ocular, my rifle and scope would be frost covered by my breath and the ice fog, I breathed out the left side of my mouth when on the gun.
Bipod would sink in the snow, I built little ice ledges dropping water on the snow till it froze, its easy to lose brass in 3 feet of snow, its easy to lose anything in 3 feet of lose powder snow.
-30 on a Jan afternoon in the sun is blinding, good sunglasses and they will fog is a good idea.
While I prefer skis, when firearms involved I used snowshoes to get around.
I used a Primus thermos of hot water and brought soup and coffee packets.
Avoid rolling down rig windows, you been warned. Do not slamm closed glass hatches on SUVs, do not drop your warm keys from your pocket in the snow, pick them up and then in the ignition, do not make your troops mad or you may come out to go and home and find out spray bottles of water was sprayed on you rig during your shift and its quarter inch thick or buried by a front end loader.
I think shooting in the winter and cold is more fun because only the tuffest show up so you usually are alone. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the cold or did at least. When the air is filled with ice crystals (alaskans know about this) and the air is dead still looking over massive wilderness, has to be experienced.
The only issue I had with bolt guns was scope turrets not wanting to go clicky click, parallax knob very stiff and eye piece on spotting scope froze. Both my 700 and GAP always went pop to around -35, this is about as cold as I shot them but I did shoot them routinely in the -20s.
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
Could you elaborate on the pistols malfuntions?
10/22 had some issues, 597 did not.
I have never did anything different with lube, Breakfree on semis and a dab of grease on the bolt.
I shot prone using a closed cell foam pad and then TAB shooting mat. I never used gloves on the trigger even at -30, my hands would not get cold for the time it took to empty 308 10 rounder. I never really got cold or chilled.
Avoid breathing directly on ocular, my rifle and scope would be frost covered by my breath and the ice fog, I breathed out the left side of my mouth when on the gun.
Bipod would sink in the snow, I built little ice ledges dropping water on the snow till it froze, its easy to lose brass in 3 feet of snow, its easy to lose anything in 3 feet of lose powder snow.
-30 on a Jan afternoon in the sun is blinding, good sunglasses and they will fog is a good idea.
While I prefer skis, when firearms involved I used snowshoes to get around.
I used a Primus thermos of hot water and brought soup and coffee packets.
Avoid rolling down rig windows, you been warned. Do not slamm closed glass hatches on SUVs, do not drop your warm keys from your pocket in the snow, pick them up and then in the ignition, do not make your troops mad or you may come out to go and home and find out spray bottles of water was sprayed on you rig during your shift and its quarter inch thick or buried by a front end loader.
I think shooting in the winter and cold is more fun because only the tuffest show up so you usually are alone. </div></div>
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I've spent a lot of time sitting in snowbanks at subzero temps calling wolves and -15 was my limit. I never used chemical hand/feet warmers because of the scent but don't really know how big an issue that was but didn't want to take the chance.
Very light lube worked for me with my AR's. Sitting completely still with a caller is different than moving around and two or three hours at below zero temps makes that moment when you finally get a shot very interesting. Keeping your feet and hands warm is more difficult than your weapon.
As noted above bringing your weapon in from cold temps is a no no. I would leave mine out in our artic entrance which is unheated.
I've spent a lot of time sitting in snowbanks at subzero temps calling wolves and -15 was my limit. I never used chemical hand/feet warmers because of the scent but don't really know how big an issue that was but didn't want to take the chance.
Very light lube worked for me with my AR's. Sitting completely still with a caller is different than moving around and two or three hours at below zero temps makes that moment when you finally get a shot very interesting. Keeping your feet and hands warm is more difficult than your weapon.
As noted above bringing your weapon in from cold temps is a no no. I would leave mine out in our artic entrance which is unheated.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Thanks guys. By the time I got out to shoot it had warmed up to 20 degrees. I shot a five-shot string in about three minutes and my first shot was about 1 MOA low and the string walked up from there about 1.5 MOA. My second string I let everything cool between shots and it stayed 1 MOA low and strung horizontally (I don't know why on that one). Second group was right at 1 MOA in spread. My Varget load usually runs about 3/4 MOA so it seems like everything is fine, as long as I adjust for the increased drop. After adjusting for that, I was hitting the 1" dot on my steel plate every time at 100.
Thanks guys. By the time I got out to shoot it had warmed up to 20 degrees. I shot a five-shot string in about three minutes and my first shot was about 1 MOA low and the string walked up from there about 1.5 MOA. My second string I let everything cool between shots and it stayed 1 MOA low and strung horizontally (I don't know why on that one). Second group was right at 1 MOA in spread. My Varget load usually runs about 3/4 MOA so it seems like everything is fine, as long as I adjust for the increased drop. After adjusting for that, I was hitting the 1" dot on my steel plate every time at 100.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Thats just like I did it but We have a covered shooting shack with concrete benches to shoot from. Snow looks to be the same and I can see you put a lot of time into the sport using the f-class position.
I was able to get out today (just have to get my 6 month old pups out for some reason) and try some new loads again. I stuck with 40 Gr's of IMR 4064 and the Gr Hornady V-Max. Did 20 rounds .005 into the lands ,2.319 on the lands,.005 off the lands and .010 off the lands. Temp was -5.6c winds were non existent life was good. Set up the crono and started testing at 100m. Best results was the .005 into the lands with the 87 gr V-max almost a one hole group until I through one out, 3/4 is still good for a factory Rem VLS 243. Now to try at some distance.....hopeing for good results.
Cheers
Thats just like I did it but We have a covered shooting shack with concrete benches to shoot from. Snow looks to be the same and I can see you put a lot of time into the sport using the f-class position.
I was able to get out today (just have to get my 6 month old pups out for some reason) and try some new loads again. I stuck with 40 Gr's of IMR 4064 and the Gr Hornady V-Max. Did 20 rounds .005 into the lands ,2.319 on the lands,.005 off the lands and .010 off the lands. Temp was -5.6c winds were non existent life was good. Set up the crono and started testing at 100m. Best results was the .005 into the lands with the 87 gr V-max almost a one hole group until I through one out, 3/4 is still good for a factory Rem VLS 243. Now to try at some distance.....hopeing for good results.
Cheers
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Heh, I just got my new build in from Robert Snyder and took it out to zero day before yesrerday. Just after 3PM, two feet of snow on the ground, damn near too dark to shoot, breezy, and 8 degrees above zero. I love shooting, and I love winter, but the two don't always go together too well...
Heh, I just got my new build in from Robert Snyder and took it out to zero day before yesrerday. Just after 3PM, two feet of snow on the ground, damn near too dark to shoot, breezy, and 8 degrees above zero. I love shooting, and I love winter, but the two don't always go together too well...
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
You guys are tough!!!! Not sure if I could hang lol, guess if I was warm I might be good to go.
You guys are tough!!!! Not sure if I could hang lol, guess if I was warm I might be good to go.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I enjoy shooting in the cold and 45.308 is right that you get less people showing up for the matches. Those early mornings of complete dead calm as the sun starts to come up is awesome. When the wind kicks up, you are also better able to read wind direction due to how the snow is blowing and swirling. Only problems Ive had were once the snow starts coming down too hard and you cant see targets past a few hundred yards, or it being so cold that when the round hits the steel, the welds were breaking on the targets. I have somewhat bad circulation in my hands/feet so my fingers and toes get cold. I dont mind the cold at all until it gets to the point where my hands wont function properly. Also remember to keep your drinks blocked from the wind. I cant tell you the number of times I have grabbed my camelback drinking tube wanting something to drink and it was frozen solid.
I enjoy shooting in the cold and 45.308 is right that you get less people showing up for the matches. Those early mornings of complete dead calm as the sun starts to come up is awesome. When the wind kicks up, you are also better able to read wind direction due to how the snow is blowing and swirling. Only problems Ive had were once the snow starts coming down too hard and you cant see targets past a few hundred yards, or it being so cold that when the round hits the steel, the welds were breaking on the targets. I have somewhat bad circulation in my hands/feet so my fingers and toes get cold. I dont mind the cold at all until it gets to the point where my hands wont function properly. Also remember to keep your drinks blocked from the wind. I cant tell you the number of times I have grabbed my camelback drinking tube wanting something to drink and it was frozen solid.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Once while hunting as a kid, I found had left my gloves at home. Learned that if my hands get cold, unless there is frost bite starting to show, just keep pushing on. Once they start tinging a few minutes later they start itching. After the itching stops I'm good all day w/o gloves down to about -15*F. If I ever warmed them back up to normal, I have to start all over again. Like anything else if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Once while hunting as a kid, I found had left my gloves at home. Learned that if my hands get cold, unless there is frost bite starting to show, just keep pushing on. Once they start tinging a few minutes later they start itching. After the itching stops I'm good all day w/o gloves down to about -15*F. If I ever warmed them back up to normal, I have to start all over again. Like anything else if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I can't imagine anyone being able to withstand -15F all day unless you are very active, very sunny outside, and not touching anything cold ie. rifle? Normally when you lose feeling in your hand that is a bad sign. Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?
Yesterday it was -15F at my house and without gloves I couldn't get much done outside. It was -32F at my place today and just going out to start my truck was miserable because I had to touch various parts of the truck to get in.
I can't imagine anyone being able to withstand -15F all day unless you are very active, very sunny outside, and not touching anything cold ie. rifle? Normally when you lose feeling in your hand that is a bad sign. Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?
Yesterday it was -15F at my house and without gloves I couldn't get much done outside. It was -32F at my place today and just going out to start my truck was miserable because I had to touch various parts of the truck to get in.
G
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Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?</div></div>
German, Sweden, an Dutch. Cold weather to a point, has never effected any family member, I know of. Worked many a winter day in Montana with just a tee shirt to about 30*F and never thought anything about it. Only time I recall really wanting inside heat was in Korea when we were out for 8 days and it reached -38*F with wind blowing. The guys back in camp were saying the heaters were glowing cherry red and water was still freezing 10 feet away.
Edit to add,..My Grandfather and Father did the bulk of the Concrete for what was known as the DEW line in Ak. I remember asking about the weather and they both said it was not near as bad as they had been told. I guess temp is relative.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?</div></div>
German, Sweden, an Dutch. Cold weather to a point, has never effected any family member, I know of. Worked many a winter day in Montana with just a tee shirt to about 30*F and never thought anything about it. Only time I recall really wanting inside heat was in Korea when we were out for 8 days and it reached -38*F with wind blowing. The guys back in camp were saying the heaters were glowing cherry red and water was still freezing 10 feet away.
Edit to add,..My Grandfather and Father did the bulk of the Concrete for what was known as the DEW line in Ak. I remember asking about the weather and they both said it was not near as bad as they had been told. I guess temp is relative.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Anyone know where one can buy Lubricant, Arctic Weapons (LAW) on line? I've still got a big can of LSA, but nothing for sub-zero.
Anyone know where one can buy Lubricant, Arctic Weapons (LAW) on line? I've still got a big can of LSA, but nothing for sub-zero.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/grease-oil-sealant.html
You can get the LAW here .. But i find synthetic ATF mixed with seafoam instead of kroil to be really good for extreme cold.
http://www.sprucemtsurplus.com/grease-oil-sealant.html
You can get the LAW here .. But i find synthetic ATF mixed with seafoam instead of kroil to be really good for extreme cold.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anyone being able to withstand -15F all day unless you are very active, very sunny outside, and not touching anything cold ie. rifle? Normally when you lose feeling in your hand that is a bad sign. Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?
Yesterday it was -15F at my house and without gloves I couldn't get much done outside. It was -32F at my place today and just going out to start my truck was miserable because I had to touch various parts of the truck to get in. </div></div>
How long have you lived in Alaska? It takes time to thicken the blood and I have known a few who never could get use to the cold even after years. My only advice, get out and enjoy it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine anyone being able to withstand -15F all day unless you are very active, very sunny outside, and not touching anything cold ie. rifle? Normally when you lose feeling in your hand that is a bad sign. Do you have any cold weather ethnic background in your family?
Yesterday it was -15F at my house and without gloves I couldn't get much done outside. It was -32F at my place today and just going out to start my truck was miserable because I had to touch various parts of the truck to get in. </div></div>
How long have you lived in Alaska? It takes time to thicken the blood and I have known a few who never could get use to the cold even after years. My only advice, get out and enjoy it.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
The only problem If ran in to is my magnification ring on the scope stiffening up so much that I could hardly turn it and in gas guns the oil stiffining up the action and having stoppages but to remidy that use remove the oil and use grafite - not a problem in a bolt gun though.. I do find it easyer to see my bullet trace in the cold though.
The only problem If ran in to is my magnification ring on the scope stiffening up so much that I could hardly turn it and in gas guns the oil stiffining up the action and having stoppages but to remidy that use remove the oil and use grafite - not a problem in a bolt gun though.. I do find it easyer to see my bullet trace in the cold though.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
The main issue I have in cold weather (beyond the phisiological effects) is the mirage that comes off the barrel after just a few rounds. I have a buddy that brings a small pocket fan with him just to keep the haze down...
The main issue I have in cold weather (beyond the phisiological effects) is the mirage that comes off the barrel after just a few rounds. I have a buddy that brings a small pocket fan with him just to keep the haze down...
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I have 7 years in AK. I regularly get out in the cold but I have a low tolerance for cold still. I can work in a t-shirt on the really cold days but there has to be sun and no wind. I can tell you trying to get a good cheek to stock weld on the cold days is not fun without a cloth layer of some sort between my face and the stock.
I have 7 years in AK. I regularly get out in the cold but I have a low tolerance for cold still. I can work in a t-shirt on the really cold days but there has to be sun and no wind. I can tell you trying to get a good cheek to stock weld on the cold days is not fun without a cloth layer of some sort between my face and the stock.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I hunt coyotes all winter in the extreme cold. I go out at around 2100 hours and hunt till I run out of coffee and snacks. That is around 0400 most of the time. I have had many nights where it was -25 degrees below zero or colder. There are several things that you need to be aware of.
First problem is breathing on your optics. It will freeze instantly, leaving you screwed when you need to shoot.
Second is the lube on your firearm. Never use the "gun grease"! I use breakfree and the way I do it is I put a very light coat on then let it set for awhile and wipe it all off. It will still leave a light film that will protect the gun but won't gum things up.
Third problem I have is condensation on the gun because It goes from -25 degrees at a hunting setup and into the truck for the trip to the next site. The gun condensates while in the warm truck and then freezes when you take it back out again. To stop this I leave the gun in the back of truck between setups. The gun will stay cold all night, but never condensates.
The third item is your ammo. I use only Hodgdons Extreme powders in my hunting loads. You can be using the same gun for shooting woodchucks in august at +95 degrees to hunting coyotes in Feb. at -30 degrees without any noticable POI change.
Hope this helps you out. I have another list of tips for keeping warm and preventing frostbite while outdoors in the extreme cold, but that is for another day.
I hunt coyotes all winter in the extreme cold. I go out at around 2100 hours and hunt till I run out of coffee and snacks. That is around 0400 most of the time. I have had many nights where it was -25 degrees below zero or colder. There are several things that you need to be aware of.
First problem is breathing on your optics. It will freeze instantly, leaving you screwed when you need to shoot.
Second is the lube on your firearm. Never use the "gun grease"! I use breakfree and the way I do it is I put a very light coat on then let it set for awhile and wipe it all off. It will still leave a light film that will protect the gun but won't gum things up.
Third problem I have is condensation on the gun because It goes from -25 degrees at a hunting setup and into the truck for the trip to the next site. The gun condensates while in the warm truck and then freezes when you take it back out again. To stop this I leave the gun in the back of truck between setups. The gun will stay cold all night, but never condensates.
The third item is your ammo. I use only Hodgdons Extreme powders in my hunting loads. You can be using the same gun for shooting woodchucks in august at +95 degrees to hunting coyotes in Feb. at -30 degrees without any noticable POI change.
Hope this helps you out. I have another list of tips for keeping warm and preventing frostbite while outdoors in the extreme cold, but that is for another day.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 7 years in AK. I regularly get out in the cold but I have a low tolerance for cold still. I can work in a t-shirt on the really cold days but there has to be sun and no wind. I can tell you trying to get a good cheek to stock weld on the cold days is not fun without a cloth layer of some sort between my face and the stock. </div></div>
Try a stock pack for your cheek. I have Eagle on my bolt gun but not on my rimfires, they are cold but not that bad.
I have always found it easier to get and stay warm in the cold Vs trying to cool down and stay cool in the heat. When its cold, ad some clothing, get active and warm up. In the heat, even in the shade sitting down it hot. No way to stay cool in the heat. We ran our AC this summer at 65, that was about as cool as the unit would work. Right now, its 22 out and we have it set at 60. We still ran the AC in Nov. I took our puppy out this morning in sweats and Tshirt, our maintenance guy is bundled up like its 20 below. I guess am I one of those who is not effected by the cold as others.
All I can recommend is, do not let the cold stop you from having fun even though I let the heat here stop me. I could not function outside this summer.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: partisan1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 7 years in AK. I regularly get out in the cold but I have a low tolerance for cold still. I can work in a t-shirt on the really cold days but there has to be sun and no wind. I can tell you trying to get a good cheek to stock weld on the cold days is not fun without a cloth layer of some sort between my face and the stock. </div></div>
Try a stock pack for your cheek. I have Eagle on my bolt gun but not on my rimfires, they are cold but not that bad.
I have always found it easier to get and stay warm in the cold Vs trying to cool down and stay cool in the heat. When its cold, ad some clothing, get active and warm up. In the heat, even in the shade sitting down it hot. No way to stay cool in the heat. We ran our AC this summer at 65, that was about as cool as the unit would work. Right now, its 22 out and we have it set at 60. We still ran the AC in Nov. I took our puppy out this morning in sweats and Tshirt, our maintenance guy is bundled up like its 20 below. I guess am I one of those who is not effected by the cold as others.
All I can recommend is, do not let the cold stop you from having fun even though I let the heat here stop me. I could not function outside this summer.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johndoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
Could you elaborate on the pistols malfuntions?
</div></div> </div></div>
Dropped in the snow in the minus 30s accidentally, once found, failed to go pop and when did, had feeding and ejecting issues. XD was dropped, stepped on, left buried in the snow for awhile, always went pop. Steel Vs tuppewear.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johndoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Pistols, Sig and 1911 had all sorts of issues at -30, XD45 ran like it was 70, always.
Could you elaborate on the pistols malfuntions?
</div></div> </div></div>
Dropped in the snow in the minus 30s accidentally, once found, failed to go pop and when did, had feeding and ejecting issues. XD was dropped, stepped on, left buried in the snow for awhile, always went pop. Steel Vs tuppewear.
G
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Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcsniperone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The third item is your ammo. I use only Hodgdons Extreme powders in my hunting loads. You can be using the same gun for shooting woodchucks in august at +95 degrees to hunting coyotes in Feb. at -30 degrees without any noticable POI change.
</div></div>
That's interesting, because I've used Varget long enough to know even in Alabama there's as much as a 2 IPHY difference at 1K between +95 and +30* let alone -30*. Now granted that's not a big difference, compared to Uncles shit in a M14 at those temps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcsniperone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The third item is your ammo. I use only Hodgdons Extreme powders in my hunting loads. You can be using the same gun for shooting woodchucks in august at +95 degrees to hunting coyotes in Feb. at -30 degrees without any noticable POI change.
</div></div>
That's interesting, because I've used Varget long enough to know even in Alabama there's as much as a 2 IPHY difference at 1K between +95 and +30* let alone -30*. Now granted that's not a big difference, compared to Uncles shit in a M14 at those temps.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
You are correct, 2in change of POI @ 1000yrds isn't much. One 1/4min click on your scope will move it 21/2in. I would say it didn't make any differance at all.
I have been using Benchmark in my .223 and H4350 in my .243 and haven't seen any change in POI with either, regardless of the temp.
I used Varget for several years in Highpower before switching to Benchmark with great results and the temps ranged from low 30's in the spring to 90+ @ Camp Perry in the late summer. Never had to change my dope because of it.
I'll stick to the Extreme powders even if its only a psychological advantage.
You are correct, 2in change of POI @ 1000yrds isn't much. One 1/4min click on your scope will move it 21/2in. I would say it didn't make any differance at all.
I have been using Benchmark in my .223 and H4350 in my .243 and haven't seen any change in POI with either, regardless of the temp.
I used Varget for several years in Highpower before switching to Benchmark with great results and the temps ranged from low 30's in the spring to 90+ @ Camp Perry in the late summer. Never had to change my dope because of it.
I'll stick to the Extreme powders even if its only a psychological advantage.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
I have to agree with the Mechanic on this one. I am a skinny white boy..... 5'11" 140lbs...... Its not the rifle I'm worried about at 0F it me.....I stop functioning at 32F and once it gets that cool I have might come out of hibernation at around 45F just to put another log on the fire and another blanket on.
Thats why i live in TEXAS where 60F is downright cold!
On the flip side you guys in northern states get cheap game tags so......
I have to agree with the Mechanic on this one. I am a skinny white boy..... 5'11" 140lbs...... Its not the rifle I'm worried about at 0F it me.....I stop functioning at 32F and once it gets that cool I have might come out of hibernation at around 45F just to put another log on the fire and another blanket on.
Thats why i live in TEXAS where 60F is downright cold!
On the flip side you guys in northern states get cheap game tags so......
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Gunfighter,
I missed your 2 IPHY! I thought you said 2"POI, Sorry about that.
That sure is quite a change. Thats what I get for surfing the web at work, when I should be working.
I just got done getting my Bushy Predator rifle ready for coyote season. Got the light mounted and the camo on it. I got a new Nikon Monarch 4-16 with mil-dot scope on it. I will be using my favorite .223 varmint load, which is a 60grn.NBT with 24.5 grns of Benchmark being lit with a FGMM primer, in a Rem. case. It shot a .266 group at 100 this summer and should be fun this winter on those pesky coyotes.
Gunfighter,
I missed your 2 IPHY! I thought you said 2"POI, Sorry about that.
That sure is quite a change. Thats what I get for surfing the web at work, when I should be working.
I just got done getting my Bushy Predator rifle ready for coyote season. Got the light mounted and the camo on it. I got a new Nikon Monarch 4-16 with mil-dot scope on it. I will be using my favorite .223 varmint load, which is a 60grn.NBT with 24.5 grns of Benchmark being lit with a FGMM primer, in a Rem. case. It shot a .266 group at 100 this summer and should be fun this winter on those pesky coyotes.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
larbhills;
When I first moved to Alaska I lived in Bettles for a couple of years, its about 40 miles north of the arctic circle. I followed the locals direction right to the T. Stay away from stainless, and completely strip "any" lub from your bolt, hammer, or trigger with Gunscruber. If you leave oil in the bolt or in trigger it will not function properly. It goes off in "slow motion", and will not strike the prime as it should. If you have high humidity it will be closer to +10 or even +20 deg f.
larbhills;
When I first moved to Alaska I lived in Bettles for a couple of years, its about 40 miles north of the arctic circle. I followed the locals direction right to the T. Stay away from stainless, and completely strip "any" lub from your bolt, hammer, or trigger with Gunscruber. If you leave oil in the bolt or in trigger it will not function properly. It goes off in "slow motion", and will not strike the prime as it should. If you have high humidity it will be closer to +10 or even +20 deg f.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
-38*f is the coldest I've ever shot in. Tensing all your muscle groups while over extending your trigger finger to inflict slight pain to increase its sensitivity moments before the shot always helped me. I have seen pictures of stainless barrels split and bulge from extreme cold but have yet to see a CM barrel do anything funny. At distance I can tell you that your drops are going to way more that one minute low. At -38 I was only about .2 mils low at 100m and by 500m I was approaching .6 or .7 mils with my Varget 308 load. It however was also much more humid that day as well.
-38*f is the coldest I've ever shot in. Tensing all your muscle groups while over extending your trigger finger to inflict slight pain to increase its sensitivity moments before the shot always helped me. I have seen pictures of stainless barrels split and bulge from extreme cold but have yet to see a CM barrel do anything funny. At distance I can tell you that your drops are going to way more that one minute low. At -38 I was only about .2 mils low at 100m and by 500m I was approaching .6 or .7 mils with my Varget 308 load. It however was also much more humid that day as well.
G
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Re: Shooting in extreme cold
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcsniperone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gunfighter,
I missed your 2 IPHY! I thought you said 2"POI, Sorry about that.
That sure is quite a change. </div></div>
I've tested my Varget load muzzle vol at 95 an 30 and found only a 10 fps difference, first shot stone cold chamber and ammo at ambient air temp. As I got to the 3rd-5th shot M/V was back to summer normals. I believe their powders will only give a more stable M/V over a wide temp range. Now if someone comes up with a powder that will over come conditions down range, I don't care how much it costs, I'll have to try it just once.
Based on numbers from the log book and a program I trust, my 175smk (bolt .308win )load will need a 7.75 IPHY change from +95 to -38*F at the same range to 1K.
Cold not only effects a weapons error range and the shooters ability, it tugs at everything. Just because you can handle the cold, does not mean those around you can as well. Weak links show up at the most inopportune time and a piece of paper or title is not a truth teller.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcsniperone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gunfighter,
I missed your 2 IPHY! I thought you said 2"POI, Sorry about that.
That sure is quite a change. </div></div>
I've tested my Varget load muzzle vol at 95 an 30 and found only a 10 fps difference, first shot stone cold chamber and ammo at ambient air temp. As I got to the 3rd-5th shot M/V was back to summer normals. I believe their powders will only give a more stable M/V over a wide temp range. Now if someone comes up with a powder that will over come conditions down range, I don't care how much it costs, I'll have to try it just once.
Based on numbers from the log book and a program I trust, my 175smk (bolt .308win )load will need a 7.75 IPHY change from +95 to -38*F at the same range to 1K.
Cold not only effects a weapons error range and the shooters ability, it tugs at everything. Just because you can handle the cold, does not mean those around you can as well. Weak links show up at the most inopportune time and a piece of paper or title is not a truth teller.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
The cold really does effect people differently. I have taken 4 or 5 different buddies out night hunting in Jan and Feb here in upstate NY over the years. I only have one of them that has stuck with it. When your eyelids freeze together and your a half mile from your truck at 0200 in the morning trudging through the snow drifts wearing 5 layers of clothes, humping a pack with all your gear, 4 spare batteries for your light, rifle, ammo, decoy and wearing snowshoes sometimes even I wonder WTF am I doing.
Then you get that rush of seeing those red eyes bouncing in and hear a whole pack of yotes howling at the call you just made and you forget the misery you are going through.
To me hunting a hunter like a coyote at night in his world in the worst conditions you can handle physically and mentally makes me feel more alive then sitting in the lazyboy watching TV.
This will be my first go at using a AR in these conditions. There will probably be a trial and error period involved, but I will have my TC Icon in the truck if a problem arises.
The cold really does effect people differently. I have taken 4 or 5 different buddies out night hunting in Jan and Feb here in upstate NY over the years. I only have one of them that has stuck with it. When your eyelids freeze together and your a half mile from your truck at 0200 in the morning trudging through the snow drifts wearing 5 layers of clothes, humping a pack with all your gear, 4 spare batteries for your light, rifle, ammo, decoy and wearing snowshoes sometimes even I wonder WTF am I doing.
Then you get that rush of seeing those red eyes bouncing in and hear a whole pack of yotes howling at the call you just made and you forget the misery you are going through.
To me hunting a hunter like a coyote at night in his world in the worst conditions you can handle physically and mentally makes me feel more alive then sitting in the lazyboy watching TV.
This will be my first go at using a AR in these conditions. There will probably be a trial and error period involved, but I will have my TC Icon in the truck if a problem arises.
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Jeezzuuusss!!! Just lookin' at that picture makes me inside shiver... Hey what about building a hootch with heater inside and a 6" hole to fire from? like a little camper tent? I guess if you get to shoot a descent grouping at that extreme cold, then summer comes you'll be squared away... God Speed...
Jeezzuuusss!!! Just lookin' at that picture makes me inside shiver... Hey what about building a hootch with heater inside and a 6" hole to fire from? like a little camper tent? I guess if you get to shoot a descent grouping at that extreme cold, then summer comes you'll be squared away... God Speed...
Re: Shooting in extreme cold
Just curious if any of you guys see much change at 100 yards. I have been shooting factory Hornady TAP 168gr and sight-in temp was in the 60s and now when I go out around 20-30 degrees the POI is 3/4" down. Cold Bore and subsequent groups. Shot it at 200 yards on the same day and found that if I used 3/4 IPHY Up for my zero then dialed in my come ups for 200 - 2 IPHY (which is now actually 2 3/4 IPHY up from "0") I was right on with a sub 3/8 moa group at that distance.
Shooting an AI AE (properly torqued) and a USO SN3 Tpal. Shot my Rock River Varmint with 55gr Hornady TAP and it was right on. No change in POI. 1 1/4 IPHY Up @ 200 and voila, sub 1/2 MOA group.
Thoughts? Anybody seeing this at shorter distances?
Just curious if any of you guys see much change at 100 yards. I have been shooting factory Hornady TAP 168gr and sight-in temp was in the 60s and now when I go out around 20-30 degrees the POI is 3/4" down. Cold Bore and subsequent groups. Shot it at 200 yards on the same day and found that if I used 3/4 IPHY Up for my zero then dialed in my come ups for 200 - 2 IPHY (which is now actually 2 3/4 IPHY up from "0") I was right on with a sub 3/8 moa group at that distance.
Shooting an AI AE (properly torqued) and a USO SN3 Tpal. Shot my Rock River Varmint with 55gr Hornady TAP and it was right on. No change in POI. 1 1/4 IPHY Up @ 200 and voila, sub 1/2 MOA group.
Thoughts? Anybody seeing this at shorter distances?
