I thought there was a thread on sling shooting techniques, if there isn’t could we start one. I still like the 1907 style but I’m looking for other options to try. If you wouldn’t mind sharing which sling and how you use it. Much appreciated.
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Advanced Marksmanship Shooting with a sling
- Thread starter Carlos0311B4
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Shot with the old school Web sling for years. The hasty sling method worked for most all my applications. Went to the Tactical Intervention Quick Cuff sling and pulled my hair out for a few years. Bought the Rifles Only sling and prefer it over the TI sling. So here is my take.
The simpler the sling the easier to apply during faster shooting situations. For this the web sling hasty method still shines.
For slower thought out shooting the RO sling works well. It also carries better. It's significantly harder to set up the first time. Application there after takes a bit to get used to. The benefit to the RO sling is the method of tighting the sling when in position. The bungie section does help with barricades. Not a game changer by any means, just a better mouse trap.
What ever sling you buy understand it takes time to really understand them. Ive got a crap ton of carbine slings, all have their pros and cons. I found that using my dry fire time as sling practice very beneficial. The hasty sling is still the fastest method, though not as supportive. The RO is more versatile, once your put the time in. For matches, slings are often a hinderance due to the dynamic design of the course of fire. Hope this helps.
The simpler the sling the easier to apply during faster shooting situations. For this the web sling hasty method still shines.
For slower thought out shooting the RO sling works well. It also carries better. It's significantly harder to set up the first time. Application there after takes a bit to get used to. The benefit to the RO sling is the method of tighting the sling when in position. The bungie section does help with barricades. Not a game changer by any means, just a better mouse trap.
What ever sling you buy understand it takes time to really understand them. Ive got a crap ton of carbine slings, all have their pros and cons. I found that using my dry fire time as sling practice very beneficial. The hasty sling is still the fastest method, though not as supportive. The RO is more versatile, once your put the time in. For matches, slings are often a hinderance due to the dynamic design of the course of fire. Hope this helps.
I shoot High Power with M1907 slings for 20 years I've used web slings as hasty slings. A couple of years ago I learned how to use a web slings. I still shoot the 1907 for competition but use a web sling for fun. I found the web sling doesn't need a jacket/pad around the arm.
I use a ShadowTech (HOG Saddle peeps) Enhanced SS loophole sling and an Magpul MS1 sling on my two 308 bolts.
The MS1 is quick and easy to adjust (wjen just using as a traditional long gun support/carry sling and not clipping into) and the SS is great for clipping in and out of quickly with a tripod.
The only upgrade I had to do the the SS was add a small piece of 550 cord on the release lever clasps so I can release the tension quickly. I also have it set to where I only use the forend length of adjustment and taped up the rear strap. Plenty of room to use as a support or carry sling without the extra section.
The MS1 has enough slack, when used as a traditional long gun 2-point sling, to actually use the leftover (unused) section to add a QD tripod in/out section like the SS has. I’m thinking of doing that but need to find a good local sew shop to do the carabiner loop. Once that’s done, and it holds up under testing, I’ll probably use that as my go-to sling due to the super fast adjustment slider on the MS1.
Speed of Adjustment: MS1
Versatility: Enhanced SS Loophole
Regardless, both are excellent quality, have very affordable price tags, and have served me well.
The MS1 is quick and easy to adjust (wjen just using as a traditional long gun support/carry sling and not clipping into) and the SS is great for clipping in and out of quickly with a tripod.
The only upgrade I had to do the the SS was add a small piece of 550 cord on the release lever clasps so I can release the tension quickly. I also have it set to where I only use the forend length of adjustment and taped up the rear strap. Plenty of room to use as a support or carry sling without the extra section.
The MS1 has enough slack, when used as a traditional long gun 2-point sling, to actually use the leftover (unused) section to add a QD tripod in/out section like the SS has. I’m thinking of doing that but need to find a good local sew shop to do the carabiner loop. Once that’s done, and it holds up under testing, I’ll probably use that as my go-to sling due to the super fast adjustment slider on the MS1.
Speed of Adjustment: MS1
Versatility: Enhanced SS Loophole
Regardless, both are excellent quality, have very affordable price tags, and have served me well.
I just herd Caylen Wojcik and Phil on their podcast talk about the ms1. I’m pretty sure I have one. I might give that a try first.
Last year I wrote an article regarding slings that I think will be helpful here, below are some excerpts where I'm discussing some of the different techniques that can be used with a sling. Everyone is going to have their preference for different brands of sling and a lot of it comes down to what you plan to use it for. The sling that I use for my carbine isn't going to be the same one I use for my bolt gun.
I believe the best place to start talking about how to use a rifle sling as a shooting aid is to look at some of the slings that are designed just for that purpose. For better or worse, modern precision rifle slings can trace their lineage back to the M1907 sling and the techniques taught by the likes of Townsend Whelen. Sling designs have advanced considerably in 100 years and many now have features that make them versatile and able to adapt to different shooting conditions never thought of before. I'm not going to get too deep into brands but some very good options are from TAB Gear, Rifles Only, Tactical Intervention Specialists, Armageddon Gear, Turner, and others.
Looping Up
Traditionally, using a sling as a shooting aid meant using a loop created by the sling to pass your through and then using body mechanics and sling tension to stabilize the rifle. That's a simplistic way to describe the process but modern slings like the Armageddon Gear sling for example make it easier to utilize this method. The Armageddon Gear sling is fast adjusting because of a Fastex buckle up front so that you can adjust the tension of the sling on the fly to suit just about any position or clothing combination. Looping up in the Armageddon Gear sling is similar to the slings of old, you want the loop as high up on the arm as possible with the strap laying flat across the back of your support hand as you lightly grasp the stock, no need for white knuckling it. When tensioned properly you should be able to drop your strong-side arm, leaving the rifle still supported in the pocket of the shoulder. Bone support is vital using this method and in the sitting or kneeling positions it helps to lean forward to get the shoulders forward of the hips and put your elbow forward of the support side knee. In the field use a rear bag, extra jacket, or even your pack to fill in some of the gaps between your body and the ground. It might take some experimentation to find what works out best for you but something as simple as putting a rear bag under your right foot in the kneeling can make a world of difference.
Across the Back
This method is quick and dirty but it can be used with carbine slings and slings like the ones from Armageddon Gear, TAB Gear, and Rifles only that are fast adjusting and/or have some bungee action to them. It’s effective when you are carrying the rifle in a patrol carry fashion and need some stability quick, fast, and in a hurry. From the patrol carry all you need to do is get into a shooting position, tighten the running end at the front, and let the tension pull across your back to the front of the rifle. I've used this method countless times from a variety of obstacles and not only is it very fast to bring to bear and it's also pretty stable. Personally, I like to use this particular method off of barricades or other obstacles where I may need to move from position to position and I can’t bring a lot of stuff with me. To gain some more stability using this method I also like to push my support arm out, sometimes against the front of the buckle and rotate my elbow inwards slightly to put more pressure on the sling. This helps draw the rifle down a bit more and I've found that it works well to help steady the reticle just before I break a shot. If you are using this method in a standing position, it will help to square up to the target, spread your legs about shoulder width apart, and lock your knees out while leaning forward slightly.
Using this method works in multiple shooting positions, not just the standing but it's pretty effective in the prone, sitting, and kneeling as well.
Carabiner Loop
Some precision rifle slings don't even feature a shooter's loop anymore because outside of some specific circumstances it's even really used. That’s not to say the sling turned back into a carrying strap though, typically they're still fast adjust so there are applicable techniques to get extra stability. Using a tripod to shoot from has taken on a whole new form there’s been a lot of techniques born from that. Some slings feature a built-in loop towards the rear of the sling that can be used to clip the sling to a belt via a carabineer when shooting from a tripod. Once in position the sling can be routed under the legs of the tripod to my belt and then I'll tighten the sling to draw the front of the rifle down into the tripod. Rolling my hips back slightly puts additional pressure on the rifle and helps make the position rock solid. This method can also be applied to shooting off of traditional barricades, natural obstacles, and a host of other situations. At the PRS match I had no issues hitting some targets like a 12” plate at 470 yards and a pepper popper at 400 yards from standing positions using this sling and applying the fundamentals.
Wojcik Method
I first saw what came to be the Wojcik Method in an article by Caylen in one of the first Guns & Ammo Sniper magazines . What I like about this technique is that it’s simple and easy to adapt to multiple sling designs. Essentially, what you are going to do is pull the sling up as high as you can behind the tricep of your firing arm so that it runs from the rear sling swivel around your arm and to the front of the gun. Now, if your sling is adjustable, tighten it up so that you feel the sling pulling the rifle back into your shoulder, for some more tension you can also pull your elbow back if need be. Like I said, this method works across many different slings from precision rifle slings to hunting slings and works great off of tripods, shooting sticks, or even natural obstacles like logs or boulders.
Hunting Slings
Just because most hunting slings are simple carrying straps doesn’t meant that they can’t be used as shooting aids in a pinch. You can easily use the Wojcik technique with a properly adjusted hunting sling or even the trusty hasty sling technique. If you are going to use a hunting sling as a shooting aid my word of advice is to practice with your rifle beforehand so that you know where the sling is adjusted properly and you are used to getting into the position quickly. There’s no metric for what the proper adjustment length is going to be since that is going to vary person to person.
Wrapping it Up…. No Pun Intended
I know I wasn’t able to cover every type of sling but I think I've shown some good techniques to use with a sling. Its effectiveness is going to be entirely up to you and how much you work with the sling to get that accuracy at distance. Simply buying a shooting sling and playing with it once or twice will not make it an effective tool.
I believe the best place to start talking about how to use a rifle sling as a shooting aid is to look at some of the slings that are designed just for that purpose. For better or worse, modern precision rifle slings can trace their lineage back to the M1907 sling and the techniques taught by the likes of Townsend Whelen. Sling designs have advanced considerably in 100 years and many now have features that make them versatile and able to adapt to different shooting conditions never thought of before. I'm not going to get too deep into brands but some very good options are from TAB Gear, Rifles Only, Tactical Intervention Specialists, Armageddon Gear, Turner, and others.
Looping Up
Traditionally, using a sling as a shooting aid meant using a loop created by the sling to pass your through and then using body mechanics and sling tension to stabilize the rifle. That's a simplistic way to describe the process but modern slings like the Armageddon Gear sling for example make it easier to utilize this method. The Armageddon Gear sling is fast adjusting because of a Fastex buckle up front so that you can adjust the tension of the sling on the fly to suit just about any position or clothing combination. Looping up in the Armageddon Gear sling is similar to the slings of old, you want the loop as high up on the arm as possible with the strap laying flat across the back of your support hand as you lightly grasp the stock, no need for white knuckling it. When tensioned properly you should be able to drop your strong-side arm, leaving the rifle still supported in the pocket of the shoulder. Bone support is vital using this method and in the sitting or kneeling positions it helps to lean forward to get the shoulders forward of the hips and put your elbow forward of the support side knee. In the field use a rear bag, extra jacket, or even your pack to fill in some of the gaps between your body and the ground. It might take some experimentation to find what works out best for you but something as simple as putting a rear bag under your right foot in the kneeling can make a world of difference.
Across the Back
This method is quick and dirty but it can be used with carbine slings and slings like the ones from Armageddon Gear, TAB Gear, and Rifles only that are fast adjusting and/or have some bungee action to them. It’s effective when you are carrying the rifle in a patrol carry fashion and need some stability quick, fast, and in a hurry. From the patrol carry all you need to do is get into a shooting position, tighten the running end at the front, and let the tension pull across your back to the front of the rifle. I've used this method countless times from a variety of obstacles and not only is it very fast to bring to bear and it's also pretty stable. Personally, I like to use this particular method off of barricades or other obstacles where I may need to move from position to position and I can’t bring a lot of stuff with me. To gain some more stability using this method I also like to push my support arm out, sometimes against the front of the buckle and rotate my elbow inwards slightly to put more pressure on the sling. This helps draw the rifle down a bit more and I've found that it works well to help steady the reticle just before I break a shot. If you are using this method in a standing position, it will help to square up to the target, spread your legs about shoulder width apart, and lock your knees out while leaning forward slightly.
Using this method works in multiple shooting positions, not just the standing but it's pretty effective in the prone, sitting, and kneeling as well.
Carabiner Loop
Some precision rifle slings don't even feature a shooter's loop anymore because outside of some specific circumstances it's even really used. That’s not to say the sling turned back into a carrying strap though, typically they're still fast adjust so there are applicable techniques to get extra stability. Using a tripod to shoot from has taken on a whole new form there’s been a lot of techniques born from that. Some slings feature a built-in loop towards the rear of the sling that can be used to clip the sling to a belt via a carabineer when shooting from a tripod. Once in position the sling can be routed under the legs of the tripod to my belt and then I'll tighten the sling to draw the front of the rifle down into the tripod. Rolling my hips back slightly puts additional pressure on the rifle and helps make the position rock solid. This method can also be applied to shooting off of traditional barricades, natural obstacles, and a host of other situations. At the PRS match I had no issues hitting some targets like a 12” plate at 470 yards and a pepper popper at 400 yards from standing positions using this sling and applying the fundamentals.
Wojcik Method
I first saw what came to be the Wojcik Method in an article by Caylen in one of the first Guns & Ammo Sniper magazines . What I like about this technique is that it’s simple and easy to adapt to multiple sling designs. Essentially, what you are going to do is pull the sling up as high as you can behind the tricep of your firing arm so that it runs from the rear sling swivel around your arm and to the front of the gun. Now, if your sling is adjustable, tighten it up so that you feel the sling pulling the rifle back into your shoulder, for some more tension you can also pull your elbow back if need be. Like I said, this method works across many different slings from precision rifle slings to hunting slings and works great off of tripods, shooting sticks, or even natural obstacles like logs or boulders.
Hunting Slings
Just because most hunting slings are simple carrying straps doesn’t meant that they can’t be used as shooting aids in a pinch. You can easily use the Wojcik technique with a properly adjusted hunting sling or even the trusty hasty sling technique. If you are going to use a hunting sling as a shooting aid my word of advice is to practice with your rifle beforehand so that you know where the sling is adjusted properly and you are used to getting into the position quickly. There’s no metric for what the proper adjustment length is going to be since that is going to vary person to person.
Wrapping it Up…. No Pun Intended
I know I wasn’t able to cover every type of sling but I think I've shown some good techniques to use with a sling. Its effectiveness is going to be entirely up to you and how much you work with the sling to get that accuracy at distance. Simply buying a shooting sling and playing with it once or twice will not make it an effective tool.
A quality 07 sling is hard to beat, but do know the military issue ones are better during certain years. Now I use QD sling mounts and tend to keep ALL my slings hanging on nails on the shop table. I pick the one I need and adjust it. Works best for me that way.
Now as for an alternative to the 07, we used to make these shooting slings in SDM school from an M14 sling and a QD buckle. It works as a regular sling, a hasty sling and it can even be used traditionally. More useful in the field than an 07, you can fight with this sling or use it for toting shit just as easy. I still use these damn things almost 20 years later, they just work.
Now as for an alternative to the 07, we used to make these shooting slings in SDM school from an M14 sling and a QD buckle. It works as a regular sling, a hasty sling and it can even be used traditionally. More useful in the field than an 07, you can fight with this sling or use it for toting shit just as easy. I still use these damn things almost 20 years later, they just work.
When tensioning the sling, how tight do you go? I've seen mine where my pulse moves the reticle. Is this good, and do I need to work more on breaking the shot between beats? Should I go not so tight? Incidentally, I notice this either in summer or winter attire.
Thanks in advance.
God bless America
Thanks in advance.
God bless America
No, seeing your pulse move the reticle isn't good, try loosening the sling up a little bit.
What kind of sling are you using?
Proper sling tension is sort of a case by case basis in my experience because what works for one guy may not work for another. In the context of setting up my Armageddon Gear PRS sling to use the shooter's loop for example, I set the stop on the loop so that it doesn't cinch too tight around my arm, basically I can get a couple fingers between it and my arm. When I adjust the running end for a sitting or kneeling position I'm setting it so that when I get into position I have to help the butt into the pocket of my shoulder. This amount of tension is a little nuanced but you want enough tension where you have to push forward slightly before the sling wants to pull it right back into your shoulder. If it's too tight, you're going to have to force it the whole way and you might not be able to get into a good shooting position without it being painful.
What kind of sling are you using?
Proper sling tension is sort of a case by case basis in my experience because what works for one guy may not work for another. In the context of setting up my Armageddon Gear PRS sling to use the shooter's loop for example, I set the stop on the loop so that it doesn't cinch too tight around my arm, basically I can get a couple fingers between it and my arm. When I adjust the running end for a sitting or kneeling position I'm setting it so that when I get into position I have to help the butt into the pocket of my shoulder. This amount of tension is a little nuanced but you want enough tension where you have to push forward slightly before the sling wants to pull it right back into your shoulder. If it's too tight, you're going to have to force it the whole way and you might not be able to get into a good shooting position without it being painful.
In a traditional shooting position, prone, sitting, kneeling. I try not to let the sling change the position. So it should look pretty much the same with and without the sling. If you look up sling shooting on google you will find that in most pictures the shooter is not behind the rifle. As I was trained that is wrong. Your shoulders should be as square as possible. I believe most Sling shooters are not square because they are shooting .22lr and recoil management doesn’t matter. If I can I’ll post some pictures to demonstrate. Speaking of pictures, who ever writes our FM’s and TM’s should be Shot! Some of those pictures, diagrams are retarded, they should have the shooters in a fundamentally correct positions. Why not take pictures of a PMI instead of Johnny lunchbox that doesn’t remember what he was taught.
Thanks for the replies, gents.
I've used a 1907 sling, Rifles Only sling - nice piece of gear, and the hasty sling with a web sling or the V-tac (two different rifles).
Pulse moving the reticle happened with the 1907. My perception is that the movement is imparted - in my case - through the upper arm, not the strong side shoulder or support hand.
Thanks again for the educational replies.
God bless America
I've used a 1907 sling, Rifles Only sling - nice piece of gear, and the hasty sling with a web sling or the V-tac (two different rifles).
Pulse moving the reticle happened with the 1907. My perception is that the movement is imparted - in my case - through the upper arm, not the strong side shoulder or support hand.
Thanks again for the educational replies.
God bless America
We’re you using it as a loop sling? It was probably to tight.
I use it as a loop sling some times but nowhere near as tight around my arm as I do with a jacket. Just put my arm threw the loop but don’t cinch anything down.
Here's some more pictures that I did years ago for another article. I think they'll provide a little more clarity on the set up of the sling and some traditional shooting positions.
Slinging up into the loop:
Variation of the sitting with my legs extended and ankles crossed:
Not everyone can get comfortable or stable in this position but if you can it is very effective. If I put a rear bag under my right leg, that seems to help with stability some more.
Traditional kneeling:
Sitting position, open legs:
This position has worked well for me in the past where it was not feasible to get into a crossed ankles position, either due to terrain or target location (i.e. it's up on a steep hill).
Slinging up into the loop:
Variation of the sitting with my legs extended and ankles crossed:
Not everyone can get comfortable or stable in this position but if you can it is very effective. If I put a rear bag under my right leg, that seems to help with stability some more.
Traditional kneeling:
Sitting position, open legs:
This position has worked well for me in the past where it was not feasible to get into a crossed ankles position, either due to terrain or target location (i.e. it's up on a steep hill).
This is the only way I've ever been able to do sitting. Shot HP a lot of years that way. As you say extremely effective, just got to watch for pulse coming from the arteries in the lower torso.
Looking at your photos I can already see one glaring error I'm making: In your photos it appears that you have a lot of your palm in contact with the stock. Prone's not an issue for me with that, sitting, I'll have to make the adjustment. Might try the crossed ankle position.
I can't thank you enough for posting the photos and your article.
God bless America
