Gunsmithing Shopfox M1112

[Vasily]

Gentlemen,

I have been considering getting my feet wet or just jumping into gunsmithing, for myself or for a chosen few. I realize this may be somewhat offensive to some of you who have professional training, been a machinist or otherwise have been doing it for years with demanding customers. Nevertheless, I find the skill set intriguing and another way to help complete my understanding of the sport of shooting. My business involves a healthy balance of planning, gathering information and implementing processes to complete various types of work. So, at this point I'm putting together a detailed list of what I will need to precisely blue print an action, chamber a barrel, turn threads and various other operations that many of you are so familiar with. The scale of this work is going to be very small. I plan on doing mainly my own rifles but of course we all have acquaintances that love to take advantage of knowledge and skill. "Which is why I'm talking to you" Although there will be a small volume of work, I also have a high expectation for precision and ease of use. Among all the other equipment needed is a lathe. My budget for this portion is $5K. I simply cannot hide any more money from my wife than that. Available space and power is not a concern. Just based on a few hours of googling and you tubing "not the best resource" I came across The Shop Fox M1112. It seems like a versatile machine for my needs however given by lack of experience I'm not confident this is the best choice. I realize there is no cap on the cost of precision equipment and generally you get what you pay for. That said I don't know if $5K is enough or plenty to budget for a quality, small production lathe. What will I be sacrificing with a lower budget like this one? Time? Precision? Versatility? All the above? Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[LeftyJason]

Have you factored in tooling costs yet? That gets expensive as well.

 

[iceng]

I got a CNC mill, cost lots. I spent $30k in the first year on tooling. I am not fully setup. I got a CNC lathe, I spent $4k on BASIC tools to run it, and have 10k coming in over 3 months.

I have lots on my manual machines (my home in the workshop).

5k on a manual lathe for chambering ? Ok, but as @LeftyJason said, factor in at LEAST $1500 on tools and that's if you get junk. Floating reamer holder, reamer, gauges, drill chuck, drill set, dial indicator or 2, and this is before you even factor in turning tools.

I WANT you to succeed, it would be awesome to have more Smiths around who like what they do are are not old salty sea-dogs who don't even shoot. I'd love to welcome you to the fold.

Get a cheap basic lathe, and see if it's for you. Hell, beg, steal and borrow things. Also, screw up an old barrel first, not a brand new in chambered one.

Have a look at potential second hand lathes. You also want the head stock to be short, and run a spider. Works easier for dialling barrels and it's how 90% of Smith's do it now.

Also ensure the lathe can cut the threads you need. Metric and imperial. Also make sure it changes into those threads easily. Nothing worse than having to pull a cover off and manually change gear train.

 

[Vasily]

I got a CNC mill, cost lots. I spent $30k in the first year on tooling. I am not fully setup. I got a CNC lathe, I spent $4k on BASIC tools to run it, and have 10k coming in over 3 months.

I have lots on my manual machines (my home in the workshop).

5k on a manual lathe for chambering ? Ok, but as @LeftyJason said, factor in at LEAST $1500 on tools and that's if you get junk. Floating reamer holder, reamer, gauges, drill chuck, drill set, dial indicator or 2, and this is before you even factor in turning tools.

I WANT you to succeed, it would be awesome to have more Smiths around who like what they do are are not old salty sea-dogs who don't even shoot. I'd love to welcome you to the fold.

Get a cheap basic lathe, and see if it's for you. Hell, beg, steal and borrow things. Also, screw up an old barrel first, not a brand new in chambered one.

Have a look at potential second hand lathes. You also want the head stock to be short, and run a spider. Works easier for dialling barrels and it's how 90% of Smith's do it now.

Also ensure the lathe can cut the threads you need. Metric and imperial. Also make sure it changes into those threads easily. Nothing worse than having to pull a cover off and manually change gear train.

Yes, I was told to budget near 1/3 the lathe cost for tooling. I started looking for used lathes but I found little within 5 hrs of Rochester NY. What's your opinion of the Shop Fox? I'm sure this type of machine is not built for production use but is it capable? What would I be sacrificing?

 

[_Windrider_]

Shop fox is Chinese garbage. If you have to buy foreign, make sure it’s at least made in Taiwan. Precision matthews makes a great lathe and mill for the money.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Whatever you "think" your budget should be......triple that!! You will thank me later!!!

Shit like, LIGHTING, tool holder trays, rolling work benches, steel wall for magnetic holders, etc etc

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi,

Whatever you "think" your budget should be......triple that!! You will thank me later!!!

Shit like, LIGHTING, tool holder trays, rolling work benches, steel wall for magnetic holders, etc etc

Sincerely,
Theis

Pshhhhh. Like you know.

 

[MDof2]

Plan to spend the same amount on tooling as you do the lathe. Tooling will be just as important as the machine itself. I'm on my 3rd lathe now, and have never sold any tooling. I continue to buy or make more depending on the project.

I don't have any hands on experience with the shopfox you noted, but Grizzly does a few things right in their mid-tier line of lathes. You might consider checking them out. Once you tear them down, clean, hone and reassemble and adjust, it will likely run pretty straight and perform as expected.

I'd reccomend you find someone local to you who will let you pick their brain while standing around their shop / working on their lathe. Someone to mentor you with be worth their weight in gold.

 

[Jed2925]

I recently jumped into gunsmithing myself. I bought a Precision Mattews 1340GT and have been very satisfied with the smoothness and the tolerances it will hold. The 1340 is slightly out of your budget but the 1236T should be close to your budget. Like others have said the China machines leave a lot to be desired so I would suggest looking at the lathes that are made in Taiwan like the 1340 and the 1236. The tooling and accessories are what gets you reamers, live center, drill chuck, then you need a 4 jaw chuck or a set tru chuck.

 

[Ware'sTacticalFirearms]

I don’t know anything about the Shop Fox but I can tell you that you’ll spend at least as much on tooling as you do on the machine. I bought a lathe about 5 years ago with absolutely no prior machining experience and started cutting my own barrels, one of the best decisions I’ve ever made!
Don’t buy cheap micrometers, indicators, etc.! Spend some time reading about machining and watching videos if you don’t have a shop nearby willing to give you some pointers. I wish you the best of luck!!

 

[Vasily]

I recently jumped into gunsmithing myself. I bought a Precision Mattews 1340GT and have been very satisfied with the smoothness and the tolerances it will hold. The 1340 is slightly out of your budget but the 1236T should be close to your budget. Like others have said the China machines leave a lot to be desired so I would suggest looking at the lathes that are made in Taiwan like the 1340 and the 1236. The tooling and accessories are what gets you reamers, live center, drill chuck, then you need a 4 jaw chuck or a set tru chuck.

I

 

[Vasily]

Thanks all for your help. I'm going to look closer at the Precision Mathews and cost out the rest of the tooling. I contacted a local Smith but he's on the fence about having some help around. I'm also looking into some classes that would likely help with the lathe operation, but my available time for classes is very limited. I'd kill to spend a weekend a month or alike at GAP or Craddock Precision etc. I've been blessed to own a few of their rifles and I'd love to duplicate that sort of precision for myself. Thanks again for being part of the Hide

 

[MK20]

I got a lightly used 1940's Sheldon 12x48 lathe with all tooling to include a complete 4C collet set and taper attachment and micrometers for 1600 bucks off of craigslist. I would look for used machines especially if you are east of the Missouri or in a big western city of industry.

 

[Ware'sTacticalFirearms]

When you’re shopping look for a short headstock and large spindle bore. You’ll be glad you have them

 

[Vasily]

I got a lightly used 1940's Sheldon 12x48 lathe with all tooling to include a complete 4C collet set and taper attachment and micrometers for 1600 bucks off of craigslist. I would look for used machines especially if you are east of the Missouri or in a big western city of industry.

How would I go about an inspection of a used machine. Look for vibration?

 

[TimK]

I'm a professional cabinetmaker. We have one piece of ShopFox equipment in the shop, and it will be the last. It really is crap. I obviously can't speak directly to the quality of their lathes, but I'd steer clear on general principals.

 

[Vasily]

I'm a professional cabinetmaker. We have one piece of ShopFox equipment in the shop, and it will be the last. It really is crap. I obviously can't speak directly to the quality of their lathes, but I'd steer clear on general principals.

Thanks, your the 6th person to have that opinion. Sounds like they tried to put out a product in a low price point unsuccessfully. Says alot about our country that a better product that costs less comes from Taiwan. I don't want to talk politics but Its impossible to make good financial decisions and support American made simultaneously. Not that Shop Fox is American but neither is PM. Looking like a used American made may be a great option.

 

[jcmullis2]

Did you ever get you a lathe? I just picked up a 12x36 gunsmithing lathe and it is a joy to single point threads with. It’s got a gear box, imperial lead screw, and dials. It’s in your budget. There’s not much difference if any between Chinese and Taiwanese lathes anymore. The grizzly g4003g and the Precision Matthews PM-1236GT are essentially the same machines. Taiwan belongs to China nowadays anyhow. Is the PM worth the extra money, depends on the individual.
I wouldn’t go with anything smaller than the 12x36. The ones I mentioned are precise enough to handle all your needs. Good luck

 

[Vasily]

Thanks for the reply. The project is on hold for now but I'm keeping my eyes open for the right opportunity.

 

[_Windrider_]

Did you ever get you a lathe? I just picked up a 12x36 gunsmithing lathe and it is a joy to single point threads with. It’s got a gear box, imperial lead screw, and dials. It’s in your budget. There’s not much difference if any between Chinese and Taiwanese lathes anymore. The grizzly g4003g and the Precision Matthews PM-1236GT are essentially the same machines. Taiwan belongs to China nowadays anyhow. Is the PM worth the extra money, depends on the individual.
I wouldn’t go with anything smaller than the 12x36. The ones I mentioned are precise enough to handle all your needs. Good luck

Only difference is one comes from a piece of shit communist country and the other from a friendly nation. Pick who you support.

 

[fdkay]

I have a PM 1236.
It is a Chinese lathe. Seems to work just fine. Of course they announced the Taiwanese made 12×36 about 4 months after I bought mine. Had that been available, that's the route I would have taken. I ended up purchasing a Taiwan made 4 jaw chuck from PM to replace the crappy one that came with it. The 3 jaw is a good chuck.
The grizzly gunsmith lathes have done quite well for themselves and should be considered.
There are times I wish I had gone with the 4003G.

FWIW, the sop fox you are looking at IS a Grizzly 4003G, just has a nicer finish.

 

[Easy_E]

I started out on an older Sheldon lathe did some great work with it and still is in the shop . Last year we bought PM1440GT what a difference in machines way easier to do nice threads and chambers the extra features are nice.
Triple your tool budget buy once cry once good tools aren't cheap.

 

[FreedomGunworks]

My first lathe was the M1112 Shop Fox. They aren't the worst thing you could buy. My next lathe was a G0509G from Grizzly. It had flat spots in the bearings from day 1. Grizzly sent me a new set of bearings with the expectation that I would take apart the brand new "flagship top of the line gunsmith lathe" and replace the bearings. They pretty much refused to do anything else about it. If I could give 1 piece of advice, it would be to save your money until you can afford something worth having. Anything else is throwing money away. Yeah, I built some really accurate rifles on those machines, but sometimes it's the Indian and not the arrow.

 

[clcustom1911]

I got a lightly used 1940's Sheldon 12x48 lathe with all tooling to include a complete 4C collet set and taper attachment and micrometers for 1600 bucks off of craigslist. I would look for used machines especially if you are east of the Missouri or in a big western city of industry.

Craigslist is where I scored my 1960's Tree 2UVR knee mill... sucker only has maybe 0.002-3" backlash on the x/y screws. Craigslist is my first stop when I'm looking for tooling and shit.