Short barreled bolt gun, how short can you go?

[Shrubjr]

Signed up for my fourth forum today! It's addictive, anyway, thanks for havin me here on this awesome site! I figured I should come post a new thread, and start asking questions of all you fine marksmen out there, so here's the situation:

I would really like to build, or have built a multi-tool bolt action rifle, what I mean by that is a concept (and a concept only) similar to Cooper's scout rifle, a medium size, medium weight, medium range bolt gun that packs easily, hunts deer and elk, defends against bears if necessary, and fights battles if necessary. The concept is appealing, but I need to tell you I'm not one of "those scout rifle guys" Cooper's concept was good for its day, but with present technology it is absurd to mount a scope 10-12inches in front of your face, and expect its wimpy little 4x magnification to meet all your needs in open country, I mean we now make 1-8x scopes for hell sakes! Anyway, I digress. What I'm after is a nice short bolt gun with a tactical flavor, that doesn't weigh ten pounds naked. Here are the criteria I want to meet, in no particular order:

1. Packable, always in the truck, always in the woods with me, always around. I see 8lbs as a max for naked rifle weight.

2.Medium Power: as in .30 cal 155gr or more going 2400fps or more, looking to score hits fairly easily 500 yards and in

3.Suppressable, I can't afford one yet, but I definitely want to go there someday

4. Fight capable- meaning magazine fed 10rnds + and light equipped

5.Economical- meaning a common caliber that is easy to come by, and easy to re-load, also I would like the rifle itself to come in at $3000 or less for the naked rifle, no optic.

So, that's what I'm trying for, I've researched .300blk, but found it underpowered, it is 7.62X35, so in a bolt gun, where I don't care about AR compatibilty, maybe i could run 7.62X39? but I don't think I could achieve that velocity with it, maybe someone here has experience with this? Also, I am okay with paying the stupid stamp, and waiting my 6-8 months for an SBR if I could find a bolt gun SBR that falls into my criteria.

The bottom line of this extremely long thread? here is the rifle build I've come up with, along with a few things I'm still not sure about, I would really appreciate you guys' thoughts, critiques, and so forth regarding it.

The build:
Stock:
-Manners EH-1: right handed, elite hunter carbon fiber fill, Remington 700 S/A, BAD bottom metal, 1/2” decel pad, GAP camo, 3 studs at 6 o’clock, two flush cups at nine o’clock, LOP 13.25”
-HPG-style rail

Bottom Metal:
-BAD (Battle Arms Development) Remington 700, AICS compatible bottom metal
-AICS 5 round mag

Trigger:
-Timney Remington 700 trigger with safety, right handed, curved trigger, nickel adjusted to 3lbs

Action:
- Remington 700 short action, 308 bolt face, stainless steel
- Badger ordinance bolt knob (full-size)

Barrel:
Option 1:
-Medium weight, like a Remington sendero contour, or a little smaller What contour do you guys reccommend???
-16.0” Threaded 5/8X24TPI, Capped, and Crowned. 1:8” or 1:10" twist rate which one do you guys think?
-Stainless
-Fluted
Option 2:
-Medium weight, like a Remington sendero contour, or a little smaller What contour do you guys reccommend???
-14.25” Threaded 5/8X24TPI, Capped, and Crowned. With AAC Brakeout sodered on to bring it to length 1:8” or 1:10" twist rate which one do you guys think?
-Stainless
-Fluted

Coating:
Ceracoat all metal parts in a nice FDE


Please share your thoughts with me guys? Sorry I'm soo LONG winded, if I could just shoot as far as I can talk right? haha.
***NFA Police, I know you're out there, PLEASE don't turn my thread into a lecture about the legalities of SBR's, I'm well aware of the 16" 26" overall biz***

Thanks Sniper's Hide!!!

 

[GlockBlock]

Oh you mean like this:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/219321-fs-gap-308-shorty.html#post2790957

 

[Shrubjr]

Yeah, a lot like that, what kind of muzzle velocities are, or where you getting from that little guy? Also, do you have anymore pics?

 

[Swift]

Welcome to the hide. I would spend a few weeks combing this forum and the stickies at the top. There's a lot of information on here and you'll find that most of your questions will be answered before you even think of em.

As far as your build, don't sweat the length. The trend lately has been towards shorter, thicker barrels. If you dig into the concept of barrel harmonics, you will understand why they can be more consistent than a longer barrel. Extensive testing by many credible sources has also shown that while you do give up some fps with a shorter barrel, the drop in effective range is often exaggerated. For reference, my 16.5" aac sd..hd fde bc blahblahthenameisstupid is reliable with 155s to 650 or so while a 22" 308 takes me about a hundred fifty further. Now, if you think a shorty 308 will take you to 1k, you need to reassess your expectations but that's not the point with these.

Regarding the barrel specs, I would recommend a heavier barrel for 16" or less. The Sendero would be the absolute minimum, but the Remington varmint is nice middle ground; you don't need a truck axle so don't go crazy. Use aluminum bases and rings instead of steel and put the weight into the barrel. It's already the heaviest part of a rifle.

For the twist, the faster the better, especially with shorter barrels. The bullet has less time to stabilize in the barrel before it's heaved into open air and a faster twist compensates by getting more rotations out of the same barrel length. It's easy to under spin a bullet; much more difficult to over-stabilize one and stability is essential in shortys especially when you start suppressing em. While we're on the topic of suppressors, a faster twist will also stabilize the heavier projectiles used in subsonic ammunition. If suppressors aren't legal in your area, well...sucks for you and ignore that part

Everything else seems pretty good. I don't have any experience with the BAD bottom metal, hopefully others can chime in there. I do have experience with Surgeon, Badger, Seekins and CDi. They are all GTG if you decide against the BAD.

Good luck with the build. Just keep your ears open and be respectful; civilian and amateur shooters are probably in the minority here-the rest are professionals and are willing to help if you're willing to listen.

 

[SABuzzard]

Keep it simple and go with a 308.

I've got a 16" 1:10 twist 308 Rem 700 that I get just under 2,600 fps with 168 grain Nolser Ballistic Tips and no pressure signs. Probably go faster if I needed to, but I found accuracy and plenty of energy at 2,600. Rifle easily and consistently bangs steel at 500, but I use it for hunting at ranges that are typically 250 or less. The 300 blackout and 7.62x39 won't do what your asking for at 500 yards and you really wouldn't save much on weight or size unless you went with one of the mini-Mauser actions like the CZ 527... still wouldn't be a 500 yard rifle.

 

[Shrubjr]

Thanks for the posts! Yeah, SABuzzard, thats kind of what I've concluded about the 300blk and the 7.62X39, just not enough scoop in da poop, plus I already have a fairly large pile of .308 around.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Make it an SBR and do an 8" .223

 

[Shrubjr]

I've seen some .223's like that, but ballistically they are not at all what I wrote about in my first post.

 

[Pusher591]

My suggestion if cost is not a concern. It's not rediculusly expensive but it would be around $3200-$3500(Gun Only) If built this way.

Bighorn TL2 Action
Bartlein Whit. Medium Palma 1-10 Twist cut @ 16"-17" Chambered in .308 Bisley
Manners Carbon Tactical T6A
Detachable bottom metal of your choice. My Preference is Surgeon or Defiance.
Timney Trigger
Leupold 3-18X44 TMR (Exceptional Glass, Short, and light 23.6 Ounces)

I think this would meet your 8lb rifle needs and be tuff as nails. I'd run 178 Amax's for target or hunting. Rifle should be half MOA with those rounds properly loaded and be a great gun to 600 yards