Rifle Scopes Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I shot the Mk 8 with the military with a Horus and I don't like it, I don't like the Horus period but I find it is too busy for such a low power

 

[saryan]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Great job on the review.
I have ran the 1.1-8 Leupold in some of our carbine bays. Its a little slow IMO but as stated the reticle is good on 8x. It was built solid and glass was good.
Thoughts on the RMR. If you shoot 3 gun and run a RMR ect then it sticks you in open class so thats something to think about. Also running the RMR is very hard when you transition to the weak side if you have the optic mounted on the side anywhere. If you mount it 12 o'clock then your cheek weld sucks. Thats the huge advantage to anything with a flash dot inside it. IMO the leupold should have had the flash dot in it for the price.
I have the S&B on T&E order so we will see what that has to offer. Flash dot is a win but the reticle now has me worried.

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Wow. I thought the Leupold had daytime visible illumination. Big time fail on that. Everything else looks great. I'm disappointed in the S&B reticle if it is that thin. If the S&B had a better/thicker reticle, it would be awesome. Right now, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on either one because I'd be disappointed with both.

Great review and thanks for pointing this things out.

 

[Guest]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Frank,

Am I to assume that the reticle for the S&B Short Dot is as it is represented on SWFA's page with the hollow duplex (like the Short Dot CQB reticle), but without 1/2 mil hash marks (unlike the CQB reticle)?

If so, you mentioned the dots being hard to see/use. By this, do you mean for the purposes of ranging, hold-overs, or both?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

The reticle is the one from the SWFA site,

Both, it's a very fine reticle and anything lower than 8x makes it very hard to use. Even then it is pretty thin.

 

[M4-Pilot]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Thanks for the post, I've been looking for any kind of comparo for a while now.

 

[35WLN]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Frank,
I was looking at getting an S&B but your comments on the reticle have me worried. I use the mildots for holds in 3gun competitions. In your experience with the scope are they visable enough to use on 4 MOA targets at 4 and 6 power? I don't have a use for ranging only for holds.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Update,

This morning I got a box from Leupold, it is the H27 version of the scope, which is different from the M-TMR version I have.

This has a daylight visible FFP Red (circle) dot as seen here, on 7 power as opposed to max of 8x

So to be clear there is a version available

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Now the Question? Which do you like better the H27, TMR, or SB? It looks like the h27 almost disappears with the red dot?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

That is up to you... I know what I like, which may not jive with other people.

You can't go by the camera pic, it didn't focus on the reticle, not to mention I am a well known Horus hater from way back in the day. But for those inquiring about a daylight visible red dot, Leupold has presented it and it looks good, if that is what you requested, they answered very clearly.

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

The dot on the horus looks good, perhaps if they slim up the xmas tree to the GAP reticle going into the Bushnells. You are fortunate to be able to put hands on these optics that are the talk of the town. Have fun with the testing.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Hmm, daytime visible illumination, non visible lines... Guess they'd show on white steel and bad guys wearing white shirts

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Here is an iphone image you can see the horus a bit better.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Do you know when this version will be available, and what the price is likely to be?

 

[shane45]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Now if they would only put the daylight visible dot in the TMR.........

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you know when this version will be available, and what the price is likely to be?</div></div>

Nope, I don't know anything about it, other than, (according to Leupold)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The original design intent of the CQBSS was to provide a daylight visible red dot capability at 1x in a variable powered optic. We have been building this configuration since August of 2009. Unfortunately, until recently, all of the scopes in this configuration that we have produced were absorbed by a Military contract.

This week, we launched this design to the commercial market for the CQBSS, the H27D part number 112564. Our intention had originally been to send you the H27D but our contract obligations prevented us from being able to do that. These scopes are now commercially available, and we have just shipped the H27D version to you, which you will receive today along with a MK8 IMS mount which shipped separately.</div></div>

I had not idea it was coming, I actually thought the boxes were for something else, and didn't even open them until I got the email this afternoon telling me who they were from.

I would recommend contacting a dealer with the part number listed. I'm not a price and numbers guy.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you know when this version will be available, and what the price is likely to be? </div></div>

It's already available through promotive, so I would assume it is not far out for the civilian market. As to the price - it is listed at $475 more than the TMR on promotive. I would venture to say it would be close to that when it gets out.

Josh

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Wish they would put the daylight circle on the TMR reticle, that would be awesome.

Looks like they gave up on the holographic dot and just went with the standard lit reticle?

LowLight- does the new version with the daylight reticle have an auto power off? Really annoying to keep having to replace batteries. I'd rather have the dot turn off after 4 hours at perhaps an inopportune time than realize I have a dead battery.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

So apart from the 34mm tube, locking turrets and zoom function the only other major difference between the Leupold and S&B is the FFP illumiated circle dot on the Leupold versus SFP flash dot on the S&B?

So this version of the Leupold is going to be in the $3.5 - $4k range, whereas the S&B is going to be appx. $2.6k. On the face of it, who thinks the Leupold is worth the extra $1 - $1.5k? And of those who do think it is worth it could you qualify why? I`m trying to make a buying decision here. Maybe a side by side features and benefits table might make it more plain.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I think it is tough enough to compare the CQBSS and SB on technical merits since the CQBSS keeps evolving and the S&B is not even in production form. But to try to devine out value when the prices aren't really known- and only one scope is actually shipping is just mental masturbation.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

But I thought the prices were known. The latest from S&B is Nov/Dec delivery and their price seems to be firm. I must admit I like the circle dot on the Leupold. Does anyone know that the weights are?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

This is seriously a tired line of questioning...

Do you want an AW Covert or Remington copy, should you get a 2011 Prius because it is a hybrid, and has neat features or a 1985 Ferrari, both will get me to the restaurant on time but one will really impress the Valet Parking Attendant.

What rifle is the scope going to be used on ?

What purpose, 3 gun shooting locally, plinking, or are you deploying to Afghanistan and plan on kicking in doors and exploiting successes ?

Do you not have access to either Leupold's website for specs outlining length, weight, etc, how about S&B ... ? If you are attempting to make a buying decision based on my feelings send me the money and I will buy what I want and it can be a surprise when it comes in the mail.

While a Remington Clone may look similar and perform well sending rounds downrange, you can't change the barrel without taking the rifle apart, where i can change the barrel on my AW without even removing the scope. I can also load an empty magazine from inside the rifle, and the shorter bolt throw really makes a difference to me... however a Remington clone can save you a lot of money. Like the Prius, excellent gas mileage, modern features like the ability to plug in my iPod, but then again, Magnum PI used a Ferrari and it goes a lot faster than a Toyota.

These are questions you have to ask yourself. Blue Car or Red... where I might want silver and really not care for blue or red in my cars.

The mission should be the deciding factor. Is it simply because you can, then consider spending the most money possible. If you're a bit more frugal and will only shoot it a couple times a year, less money might be a wiser decision.

Trust the Force Luke...

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I appreciate your frustration with me. I wouldn`t consider either a Remington copy and now that we have seen Leupold`s other offering I would consider both for kicking in doors or 3-gunning. The reticle issue with the S&B I think can be resolved between now and December likewise the locking turret issue you mentioned. So in my opinion it does just boil down to the dollar amount. The question I raised regarding whether the extra dollar value for the Leupold is worth it is valid. I would just like to hear someone qualify the reasons behind spending the extra money on the Leupold.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

They Extra Money is a Horus issue, the Licensing fee is $400 alone, if you add a Horus to the S&B the price will go up the same.

If you look at the initial scope, and the retail of just over $3k, (not the Horus) there are a lot of reasons for this. First off, as Leupold as stated, they got it right first. Their scope has been in the field since 2009. I used with a Tier 1 group in 2010, so basically they won and set the tone.

The USMC MST 100 scope was sold to the government for $700, when John Unertl died and a holding company bought the Unertl name and left over parts, they produced the Tactical 10X, T10 model and charged $2500. Once that happened it set the tone for USO to charge $2500 on a $700 scope that was designed in 1978.

Add in the innovations that Leupold put in the scope, and they tie that in with the fact that the early units using it were Tier 1 groups, so, you have a market value of $3k

S&B decided their scope after a lot of work, and even less field use is worth a bit less because they used a lot of the features found on their Short Dot. Now I haven't spoke to any one at S&B, but clearly if you want to take down the guy who went to market first, you charge less. The fact it is not out yet cannot be over looked.

When I went to the Leupold factory and asked about the price the answer was simple, "because we won" they got the scope to function right first. Others are still tweaking on their scopes, so you have essentially a Gen 1 versus a Gen 2.

They money is irrelevant really, that is what they charge, either you see value or you don't. Either you can afford it or you can't. There is really no gray area as in whether or not it is worth it ? They don't care if you think it is worth it or not, clearly the military is buying it, once that happens civilians will follow.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Thanks, I get the Horus licensing issue, but Leupold at this time don`t seem to be offering a non Horus version with a red-dot. As the non Horus scope (priced at $3k) doesn`t have the red-dot feature, in your opinion can that be considered an S&B equivalent? Wouldn`t it make more sense for Leupold if they can to price their non red-dot version below what S&B are going to be charging for the Shot-Dot? I guess if most of these are being sold to the military, Leupold don`t really care about their civilian market pricing.

It would be nice to see one of your video reviews on the Leupold with the red-dot.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, I get the Horus licensing issue, but Leupold at this time don`t seem to be offering a non Horus version with a red-dot. As the non Horus scope (priced at $3k) doesn`t have the red-dot feature, in your opinion can that be considered an S&B equivalent? Wouldn`t it make more sense for Leupold if they can to price their non red-dot version below what S&B are going to be charging for the Shot-Dot? I guess if most of these are being sold to the military, Leupold don`t really care about their civilian market pricing.

It would be nice to see one of your video reviews on the Leupold with the red-dot.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. </div></div>

If

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I will be doing an expanded review on the Leupold and I will use both versions.

I never planned on the Short Dot Shoot Out, it just fell into my lap thanks to a local agency that asked to T&E the Short Dot for themselves and they were nice enough to let me borrow it for a day.

So again, understand, you have to put this in context of, Basically using both scopes for 1 day and I clearly made some mistakes rushing the issue. I had no manual, so I didn't understand the turrets correctly on the Leupold, I was comparing a Machine Contract Scope to a Short Dot / Flash Dot scope, so when you rush things you are bound to run over stuff.

This is why I normally get these scopes for a minimum of 6 months so when I do get around to shooting a video I am not missing features and I can get any glaring questions I have answered prior to committing it to video. I rush it because I was lucky enough to have both scopes in the same place at the same time. The S&B was on a tour of .gov agencies, it wasn't for me to do with this, so again, everything in context.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Just a note on price. The Leupold is MSRP of $4K. That is NOT what the avg. Joe on the street can buy them for IF you shop around and do some basic searching with the thing your staring at in front of you.

You should be able to get one for around $3200 and if your search skills are really good $3000 can have you one. And if you have a buddy with a resale/FFL on file with some of the bigger wholesale stores they can be had for under $3000.

I am really looking at this scope for my latest 18" AR build. I do not kick in doors, or really have a need for red dot scopes...and if you get right down to it I really have no "need" for this type of scope at all. But then I will go out on a limb and say the majority of the folks have no real "need" for most of the items we buy when it comes to our hobbies.

I am a Ham radio operator...what does that have to do with guns and scopes you ask? Well the whole bitching about the prices reminds me of when Icom introduced the IC-7800 radio. It had a street price of over $10,000.00. There was all this moaning and crap talking on the radio forums about how no radio was worth that. And how Icom just cut their throat cause NO ONE would buy one at that price.

Guess what? Not only did they sell everyone they produced in the first run...they sold out of the 2nd run. And then Yaesu came out with a radio that cost over $12K....and they sell the crap out of them.

As Frank pointed out...price is a moot point as the market has shown that they are selling them. There will always be the haves and have nots...or more accurately...when momma tells them no they can not spend their money on a stupid scope...i'm just say'in.

So I am slowly saving my pennies and thinking it over...

Take care,Stan

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

+1 I have been looking at these scopes since the rumor first came out about the 1-8's have I bought one no, I am still doing my research. kicking things back and forth. do I need one NO, do I want one yes I am spending my money on it so I want it to be what I want. My job requires an Eotech so that is what I have on my issue gun. My personal guns are that, personal, and once I get an idea of what I think will go on my Recce, my SPR and my EMC I will put those optics on those guns. replacing what is currently on them.
This is an internet forum, and Frank is doing a great job with these scopes for us the consumers, I take his info and gather it with that of the guys that I know in those tier 1 units and I will make my own decision on what will be the best optic for what I want.

EDIT, Talked to SB yesterday and looks like more of a Dec delivery time for the 1-8s

 

[vtb]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

M-TMR is useless if i need to put a RMR over it. i mean - i'll take a NF 2.5-10x24 + RMR in that case and it will do the same.
But pics of H27 version looks very promising. And honestly the $500 price difference between MTMR and H27 is cheaper than buy a RMR with mounting ring.

So here goes the questions - Who has 1.1-8x CQBSS H27 on FFP with Red circle in SFP in stock? i.e. - who can sell me one?

Any help?

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

They're ITAR restricted and you're in Moscow. I think you might be waiting a while unless Idaho is now the "Evil Empire". In that case there's a few dealers out there but be prepared for a backorder.

By the way, I like my M-TMR version but I intend on it primarily being a mid-long range optic. It's on my MK12 right now while my .308 is being built, then it will go over to there.

 

[vtb]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Well. ITAR is restriction not a prohibition.

I've got my export licience done (it took 60 days to obtain) so I'm good with ITAR unless I try to reexport scope to the US.

So it leaves the question open - where H27 version of CQBSS can be bought?

 

[poison123]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vtb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well. ITAR is restriction not a prohibition.

I've got my export licience done (it took 60 days to obtain) so I'm good with ITAR unless I try to reexport scope to the US.

So it leaves the question open - where H27 version of CQBSS can be bought? </div></div>

I wouldn't say you are good. You still having to find someone who will sell to you from the states.....good luck with that.

 

[vtb]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

It will be the same people who did the paperwork.
So again - is H27 version somewhere in stock?

and the second question - can someone who owns M-TMR version make still shots of the illuminated reticle on 1.1x and 8x at the day as it was done in the first post with H27 circle dot?

because video is good but camera can't focus on the reticle (except flash dot of S&B)

Thank you in advance.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vtb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well. ITAR is restriction not a prohibition.

I've got my export licience done (it took 60 days to obtain) so I'm good with ITAR unless I try to reexport scope to the US.

So it leaves the question open - where H27 version of CQBSS can be bought? </div></div>

I wouldn't say you are good. You still having to find someone who will sell to you from the states.....good luck with that. </div></div>

What the heck is the State Department doing issuing permits to Russia and since when did the Russians become our friends? I see no reason to trust them especially with the likes of Putin being in charge.

 

[Amric]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I am not a fan of Putin, but there is nothing wrong with the Russian people, so let's get this thread back on topic.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vtb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
and the second question - can someone who owns M-TMR version make still shots of the illuminated reticle on 1.1x and 8x at the day as it was done in the first post with H27 circle dot?

because video is good but camera can't focus on the reticle (except flash dot of S&B)

Thank you in advance.</div></div> Can't help you with the pics. I'm back at work and that rifle is a few thousand miles away from me right now. Hopefully someone else will come up with what you're looking for.

 

[Victory]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I have been using the CQBSS here in Astan for a while now. It wouldn't trade it for anything other than a S&B but I haven't used the S&B so who knows, I might want my CQBSS back.

I can say that the turrets haven't had any problems with sand or dirt getting in. Even after numerous days in the mountains and being blasted by multiple rotor washes. The glass is clear and has become invaluable when sitting in a surveillance site and something pops up and I can't grab the stabo's or get my eyes behind other glass in time to determine if something was a threat or not. I paid for this optic myself and can say that I would do it again without hesitation. If your ass isn't on the line, then go buy something cheaper. If it is, then pony up and buy the thing. You only have one life, and 4,000 def isn't the price on mine.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I will try to take some pics through the reticle for you guys. The internet is horrible here, so it might take a bit to get them uploaded.

If you have questions about it, I will try to answer them for you guys.

Cheers

 

[post_tensioned]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: victory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been using the CQBSS here in Astan for a while now. It wouldn't trade it for anything other than a S&B but I haven't used the S&B so who knows, I might want my CQBSS back.

I can say that the turrets haven't had any problems with sand or dirt getting in. Even after numerous days in the mountains and being blasted by multiple rotor washes. The glass is clear and has become invaluable when sitting in a surveillance site and something pops up and I can't grab the stabo's or get my eyes behind other glass in time to determine if something was a threat or not. I paid for this optic myself and can say that I would do it again without hesitation. If your ass isn't on the line, then go buy something cheaper. If it is, then pony up and buy the thing. You only have one life, and 4,000 def isn't the price on mine.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I will try to take some pics through the reticle for you guys. The internet is horrible here, so it might take a bit to get them uploaded.

If you have questions about it, I will try to answer them for you guys.

Cheers </div></div>

What reticle is your CQBSS?

 

[Victory]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

M-TMR

 

[c ward]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

When You talked with Leupy Frank did they say whether the daylight visible illumination was going to be across the board or just the Horus reticules ?

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

LowLight,

Any updates on the S&B Leupy comparo, or the Leupy H27 version with the circle daylight lit reticle. That is really an interesting looking option.

Thanks

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Looking at the illuminated donut on the Leupold, can you show us a picture of it against a bright background in sunlight. I'd like to see how bright the illumination will go.

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

Does anyone have the 1-8 with the Horus in stock? I saw that leupold has it listed on their website now.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

So I called Leupold today and got passed onto their custom shop. The guy confirmed, after consulting with some people, that the CQBSS reticle is not daylight rated.

I said that I saw that there was a version with the Horus that was daylight visible and was there anyway to swap the illumination module or would it have to be a whole reticle change and is that even possible. He checked around and said that there could be a swap kit available next year for the whole reticle, but he didn't know the particulars of when or how much.

I told him I thought it was pretty crappy to have a $3000-4000 scope that was not daylight visible and if he could pass that along in his feedback channels. He said he would tell management.

I know this scope and the TMR version is the first out/ bleeding edge of the scope, but with blood you can usually see red at least- no such luck here. I know I'm just a peon that called in cold, but I think the downside to dealing with such a large company is that this is just another scope model to that technician. Never had to do it, but I'd guess if I called USO or Premier I'd talk to someone a lot more intimately involved with the models.

I called because I think this is a pretty common complaint about the scope and I wanted to see what Leupold said about it, but they are too big for that kind of communication.

The day light reticle that Frank showed doesn't seem to be the red blob dot from earlier daylight reticles that I saw- it seems to be just the reticle lit more intensely.

I could see two paths forward, selling the scope and taking the hit on resale and buying a new scope set-up or tweaking the scope. I was interested to see what the cost difference is. I really like the scope, Overall, I really like the scope. I've used it in three tactical rifle matches and it does OK on a fairly bland range, but you start throwing scrub brish and grass into the sight picture and it gets a bit hard to use the reticle at 1-3x especially.

Leupold has actually hit their schedules with the scope, unlike others, so here's hoping that they can come in on time with the mod kit. Even better would be if they did a mea culpa and said that TMR in a $3500 scope should be daylight visible and mod'd the scope. Frank, maybe you can give them that feedback from one of your members.

 

[Singlestack_Wonder]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot the Mk 8 with the military with a Horus and I don't like it, I don't like the Horus period but I find it is too busy for such a low power </div></div>

Thanks for the review Frank! It would be interesting to see the latest version of the IOR Valdada 1.5-8 compared against these two. The newest version is the one with the built-in cat tail.

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This week I was able to compare the Leupold Mk 8 CQBSS to the S&B Short Dot 1-8x.

Mounting both scopes in QD Mounts they were attached to my GAP 10 and put through a series of events from 100 yards to 500m. We zeroed them up and once that was done we moved them on and off video taping the results.

This is a long video and could have been split up into two, but this shows the meat of the results. I wasn't able to include the everything, but most of it is there. We didn't do any destructive testing, nothing abusive so only activities from zero to shots at distance after moving each on and off no less than 3x a piece.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PxHWCDP2msE?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I managed through the scope shots so you can see the sight the picture down range, and any mistakes encountered where included, edited but barely. Hopefully this will let you see both as I did.

One day each is not very long to use a scope. The S&B Short dot is on loan so I only limited time with it. Leupold was able to supply their scope for much longer.

<span style="font-weight: bold">UPDATED*** </span>

Daylight visible Red (circle ) Dot is available with the Mk 8

</div></div>

I'm curious to know how visible this day-light-visible circle is in bright light against bright backgrounds?

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

I checked out the Leupold CQBSS this weekend at a trade show on an HK 417 did not get to shoot it, but the red dot and horus seemed well put together.
Has anyone seen a place that is selling the CQBSS with the Horus?

 

[sititunga]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I checked out the Leupold CQBSS this weekend at a trade show on an HK 417 did not get to shoot it, but the red dot and horus seemed well put together.
Has anyone seen a place that is selling the CQBSS with the Horus? </div></div>

I've been hearing conflicting reports about how visible the red-dot is in bright light. If you look at the pictures above there seems to be some concerns the dot or donut illuminated ring will wash out against bright backgrounds. Did you get a chance to test the dot out in bright conditions?

 

[KM375]

Re: Short Dot Shoot Out ! Mk 8 CQBSS vs S&B 1-8x

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krm375</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I checked out the Leupold CQBSS this weekend at a trade show on an HK 417 did not get to shoot it, but the red dot and horus seemed well put together.
Has anyone seen a place that is selling the CQBSS with the Horus? </div></div>

I've been hearing conflicting reports about how visible the red-dot is in bright light. If you look at the pictures above there seems to be some concerns the dot or donut illuminated ring will wash out against bright backgrounds. Did you get a chance to test the dot out in bright conditions? </div></div>

Negative, I was a convention center and only could mess with it for a moment. The whole ocular was quick and easy changing the power range and the Red donut was easy to see in the convention center. I was looking up at the lights and getting muzzled by a a few kids playing with the MP7 and some MP5's, so I left.