Should 30 TC make a comeback?

[ColtSAA.45]

So I’ve been thinking of what cartridge to chamber my new rifle in. Right now there is a new .308 proof carbon barrel on it. I want to replace that barrel with a 6.5 creed barrel or 6.5 PRC (if I can source a magnum bolt for it). I have been going back about just keeping the .308 barrel on it though. The main use of this rifle would be for long range hunting and some recreational long range shooting. I’d like for this to be chambered in something that maintains 1500 ft/lbs to at least 500 yds. For those that don’t know, the .30 tc is essentially a 308 blown out and is the basis for the creedmoor family of cartridges. For the published velocity I’ve found is that there is about 200 ft/s gain of the 30 tc over the 308. The 6.5 creed beat out the 260, the 6 creed is on its way to beating out the 243; why is the 30 t/c not beating out the 308 win?

I’m contemplating having a barrel chambered in 30 t/c. It seems like it would be a good compromise. With 180 grain bullets it should be around 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yds, it’s 30 cal so bullet choices are excellent, and it still maintains a .308 size bolt face.

These are just some thoughts of mine. With the success of the 6.5 and 6 creed rounds, why has the parent (30 tc) not enjoyed the same success?

 

[Hondo1]

.30TC was a dud, the posted velocities are from Hornady using proprietary powders. In the real world .308 does everything better.

 

[Supersubes]

I dont see a 30tc beating a 308 by 200 fps for the same reason we dont see 6.5 cm beating a 260 by 200 fps.

 

[DJL2]

The 6.5 creed beat out the 260, the 6 creed is on its way to beating out the 243; why is the 30 t/c not beating out the 308 win?

I’m contemplating having a barrel chambered in 30 t/c. It seems like it would be a good compromise. With 180 grain bullets it should be around 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yds, it’s 30 cal so bullet choices are excellent, and it still maintains a .308 size bolt face.

These are just some thoughts of mine. With the success of the 6.5 and 6 creed rounds, why has the parent (30 tc) not enjoyed the same success?

The .30 TC doesn't outperform the .308 Win, just like the .308 Win doesn't out perform the .30-06, and for the same reason. It's a question of trade offs and if the juice is worth the squeeze. The market has ruled on the .30 TC - a decisive no. The .243 and the .260 at least enjoyed competitive success in the hands of some capable shooters (George Gardner, Terry Cross come to mind, respectively).

The .243 is also a monster, especially in AI guise and folks realized it was too much of a good thing as they attempted to balance recoil, barrel life, etc. with performance (6 Creed suffering the same fate at present). The .260 Remington suffered from being released by Remington (aka: optimization and marketing issues), more so than any performance deficit.

The .308 Win was already seen as the floor for a lot of folks in terms of .30 cal performance... and heading to the basement just wasn't that appealing. I don't know what animals are on your tags, but it's hard to see a situation in which a .308 Win is the top choice for a long range rig. That being said, it's certainly a serviceable one. I'd worry more about impact velocity than energy, personally.

 

[ColtSAA.45]

The .30 TC doesn't outperform the .308 Win, just like the .308 Win doesn't out perform the .30-06, and for the same reason. It's a question of trade offs and if the juice is worth the squeeze. The market has ruled on the .30 TC - a decisive no. The .243 and the .260 at least enjoyed competitive success in the hands of some capable shooters (George Gardner, Terry Cross come to mind, respectively).

The .243 is also a monster, especially in AI guise and folks realized it was too much of a good thing as they attempted to balance recoil, barrel life, etc. with performance (6 Creed suffering the same fate at present). The .260 Remington suffered from being released by Remington (aka: optimization and marketing issues), more so than any performance deficit.

The .308 Win was already seen as the floor for a lot of folks in terms of .30 cal performance... and heading to the basement just wasn't that appealing. I don't know what animals are on your tags, but it's hard to see a situation in which a .308 Win is the top choice for a long range rig. That being said, it's certainly a serviceable one. I'd worry more about impact velocity than energy, personally.

Yeah but shouldn't the T/C benefit from the ability to utilize longer (higher BC) bullets the same way that the 6.5 creed can utilize longer bullets? Essentially, the 30 tc and 308 both have similar case capacity in that the the 30 T/C accomplishes this by having nearly parallel case walls while the 308 case is longer and tapered. By that logic, 30 t/c has the benefit of a shorter case length enabling bullets to be seated further out. This is the same gain that the 6.5 creed has over the 260 (and 6 creed over 243).

In my mind, by using this logic, the 30 t/c should be able to chamber longer and higher bc bullets without encroaching into powder capacity. Thus something like a 180-210+ grain bullet can be seated out further and still be able to utilize the max case capacity (and likely lower pressures than a 308 with the same bullet).

I'm not arguing that the 30 t/c is an excellent round and is what I want. 99% chance that I'll end up with a 6.5 of some flavor. I'm just really wanting to question if this thing is really a dud? Using my logic above, I can see the merit in a 30 cal short action round capable of launching high BC bullets without encroaching on case capacity.

 

[Digetydog]

Yeah but shouldn't the T/C benefit from the ability to utilize longer (higher BC) bullets the same way that the 6.5 creed can utilize longer bullets? Essentially, the 30 tc and 308 both have similar case capacity in that the the 30 T/C accomplishes this by having nearly parallel case walls while the 308 case is longer and tapered. By that logic, 30 t/c has the benefit of a shorter case length enabling bullets to be seated further out. This is the same gain that the 6.5 creed has over the 260 (and 6 creed over 243).

In my mind, by using this logic, the 30 t/c should be able to chamber longer and higher bc bullets without encroaching into powder capacity. Thus something like a 180-210+ grain bullet can be seated out further and still be able to utilize the max case capacity (and likely lower pressures than a 308 with the same bullet).

I'm not arguing that the 30 t/c is an excellent round and is what I want. 99% chance that I'll end up with a 6.5 of some flavor. I'm just really wanting to question if this thing is really a dud? Using my logic above, I can see the merit in a 30 cal short action round capable of launching high BC bullets without encroaching on case capacity.

The 308 is popular because it is effective as a 30-06 short. Both the brass and the ammo is plentiful and cheap (relative to other cartridges in its class).

Going back to its role as a 30-06 short, anything "better" is going to have to compete with the existing LA and Short magnum cartridges as well. Essentially, the 30 TC tried to fit in a very narrow niche.

The 30 TC "might" be marginally better than a 308, but it is not enough better to give up all the benefits of a 308.

If you want a short action 30 cal, why not go with the 300 WSM?

 

[BoilerUP]

Call it 7.62 Creedmoor.

BUY MORTIMER, BUY

 

[Supersubes]

Yeah but shouldn't the T/C benefit from the ability to utilize longer (higher BC) bullets the same way that the 6.5 creed can utilize longer bullets? Essentially, the 30 tc and 308 both have similar case capacity in that the the 30 T/C accomplishes this by having nearly parallel case walls while the 308 case is longer and tapered. By that logic, 30 t/c has the benefit of a shorter case length enabling bullets to be seated further out. This is the same gain that the 6.5 creed has over the 260 (and 6 creed over 243).

In my mind, by using this logic, the 30 t/c should be able to chamber longer and higher bc bullets without encroaching into powder capacity. Thus something like a 180-210+ grain bullet can be seated out further and still be able to utilize the max case capacity (and likely lower pressures than a 308 with the same bullet).

I'm not arguing that the 30 t/c is an excellent round and is what I want. 99% chance that I'll end up with a 6.5 of some flavor. I'm just really wanting to question if this thing is really a dud? Using my logic above, I can see the merit in a 30 cal short action round capable of launching high BC bullets without encroaching on case capacity.

Use the .260/6.5 creed comparison, since its basically an identical relationship to 308/30tc. We’d both agree the creed has a batter case design. In the real world though, both do exactly the same thing in that they push a 140 to ~2750-2800. Only in the very early days was the creed touted as faster than a .260, and that was only because people were loading to stupid pressures.


Additionally, you only have max 2.9” worth of magazine to work with. Putting a 210gr bullet in front of 40-44 grains of powder is still gonna be slow as shit.

 

[DJL2]

Yeah but shouldn't the T/C benefit from the ability to utilize longer (higher BC) bullets the same way that the 6.5 creed can utilize longer bullets? Essentially, the 30 tc and 308 both have similar case capacity in that the the 30 T/C accomplishes this by having nearly parallel case walls while the 308 case is longer and tapered. By that logic, 30 t/c has the benefit of a shorter case length enabling bullets to be seated further out. This is the same gain that the 6.5 creed has over the 260 (and 6 creed over 243).

Only if you ignore muzzle velocity as a relevant performance metric. Best case would be something like 2400 fps from a “normal” rifle and that doesn’t have broad appeal. The case capacity is not well matched to heavy for caliber bullets (that’s the .300 magnum family).

On the flip side, the 180 class of .30 cal aren’t usually long enough to cause issues from .308 Win in the first place (e.g. FGMM 185 Berger Juggernauts).

.308 Win with 200 grain bullets gets done for F-class - single fed, loaded long and HOT. The .30 TC doesn’t do much to challenge this niche because it’s not comp legal or mandated the way a .308 Win is and it won’t improve performance in this context.

ETA: the 6.5 Creed doesn’t offer a raw/MV performance improvement versus the .260 Rem. It offers performance parity while avoiding the bugbear of seating longer bullets below the neck shoulder junction.