Should I Be Upset?

[orbitup]

I got a Savage Stealth not long ago (6.5 Creedmoor) and noticed it was putting deep scratches in the brass just from chambering a round. I sent the gun back to Savage and they reamed the chamber. So today I check the length to the lands with the 2 140gn bullets I want to try and it's over 3". I've been loading long but this is ridiculous. I'm afraid if I call them they will just tell me it's fine so I thought I should run it by y'all first.

What do you think?

 

[djarecke]

To answer your question: Yes. I would be upset.

 

[demolitionman]

My Savage barrelled 24" creedmoor 6.5 is 2.895 COAL to reach the lands measured with a HornadyOAL gauge and a 140 Berger Target VLD for what thats worth. Good luck man.

 

[orbitup]

So I'm limited to bullets that like a long jump and that's only going to get worse with throat erosion.

They also scratched it up around the safety.

 

[mpk1996]

kinda. I think the stock reamer for 6.5 creedmoor has a .199 fb. so its very long

 

[FALex]

Fucking Salvage, I wouldn't stand for that shit either. There's instances of long throats, but you may end up calling that rig "Deep Throat." Salvage recently screwed me over on an order I had with them, so I cancelled it. Reading posts like your's, OP, makes me happy that I did. I'd definitely contact them.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Long jump doesn't degrade accuracy.

Do proper load development loaded to magazine length and you'll be fine.

Its a huge myth that you have to be close or near the lands for accuracy. That's not why we try to load as long as possible

 

[jim10801]

Its a huge myth that you have to be close or near the lands for accuracy. That's not why we try to load as long as possible

Then what is the reason for getting close to the lands? Accuracy was what I always thought.

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Longer OAL = more powder, less throat erosion (supposedly) from bullets hitting lands harder

you can still develop accurate loads.

Youre supposed to experiment with seat depths up to .120" off the lands but were normally finding loads way before that.

Take a look about load development for sierra bullets or the nosler RDF's. People start at a minimum of .30 and they think that's huge. People are finding great loads at .060 and .080.


all I'm suggesting is don't knock it until you try it. Go shoot some loads and if it doesn't work out report it to savage. But don't put the cart before the horse because you're going off the internet

 

[mcfred]

I don't think your blanket statements are very useful, Ghenis. Some bullets don't mind the jump, others do. Nosler's new .224 70 RDFs are one example. Unless they're jammed in the lands on 3 of my rifles, they will not group. They started less than great then got progressively worse the further from the lands they got to the point they'd barely hit a page of paper. 69 SMKs shoot .5 MOA .015" off the lands FWIW.

OP, you got a Savage. Does it shoot or no? If you want to be able to spec the chamber reamer, then you should not go with a factory rifle. A few scratches on a Savage aren't going to devalue it either. Take it out of the safe, drag it around some hills and it'll pick up some more scratches to hide the ones installed at the factory.

2¢

 

[GhengisAhn175]

Mcfred,

youre saying my blanket statements don't help but you also ask him if his savage shoots or not?

Pretty much what j suggested him to do; find out if he can load for it instead of worrying it's throated long.

And go to the reloading section. There's two different threads in page 1 right now that guys are worried about not finding a load if they jump longer then 30 thousandths.

And there's this one in the bolt rifle section:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...w-to-tell-when-barrel-is-shot-out#post6356162

 

[vh20]

OP, you got a Savage. Does it shoot or no? If you want to be able to spec the chamber reamer, then you should not go with a factory rifle. A few scratches on a Savage aren't going to devalue it either. Take it out of the safe, drag it around some hills and it'll pick up some more scratches to hide the ones installed at the factory.

2¢

The "deep scratches" he's referring to aren't on the rifle.

They were on the brass coming out of the chamber, not even having to be fired, just chambered. He sent it back and they reamed the chamber to remove a burr. I'm not sure, but I think he's suggesting that's when the throat dimension changed, but he doesn't say that specifically.

Also, you should definitely be able to spec the chamber in a factory rifle to within SAAMI spec, and it appears this one isn't.

 

[mcfred]

Ghenis, you're right to suggest proper load development. Yes, things can work with a large jump, but it's best to try something. OP has not said how it shoots which makes me think he's tried nothing at all except to check max COAL. He bought a Savage with some unqualified issues and his thread title asks "should I be upset?" I don't think he has much to complain about unless it's a scatter gun. It's not a $3500 Chad Dixon special. If he tried bullets from the lands to some reasonable mag length and he couldn't get good groups, then I'd suggest he contact the maker. When/if that fails, he could get a Criterion barrel or something where he might have a choice on how it's chambered/head spaced.

Vh20, he posted: "They also scratched it up around the safety." I assume that is not in reference to his brass.

 

[orbitup]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The scratches I have now are cosmetic. I'm not really worried about those but when I'm already pissed it doesn't help.

The bullets I have to try are both 140gn. RDF and ELD-M. I'm not good enough to spend Berger money. I have an Accurate mag that will let me load long so I'll start at 2.910 OAL and see how it looks. I haven't tried it since it's been re-reamed, just taken measurements.

This is only my second gun to do load development on but I'm already used to starting jammed into the lands and working back.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

My only seating depth concern when doing load development is to ensure that I'm at least .010" away from the rifling. I don't like to jam bullets, and I don't really worry too much about how far they jump. My usual COAL determination is based on whether I am magazine feeding or am single feeding.

Until the OP gets some loads down the bore and onto a target, it's essentially impossible to see whether or not there is any problem to fix in the first place. I'd suggest that be resolved before any fur flies on the forum.

Understand, with a factory Savage chamber, you're loading for a SAAMI spec chamber to begin with. Some considerations (like concentricity, for instance) need to be pretty far off before they exert a major influence on accuracy. This is a main reason why I don't get overly anal about my handloading, just simply make the best ammo I can using basic techniques, and save my concentration for matters like charge weights and consistency.

Greg

 

[Sendit6.5]

OP: That does seem pretty long. Did they "ream" the chamber or "polish" it? Normally a rough chamber just gets polished. If they reamed it, maybe something went wrong. I've got a Savage 10/110 Predator in 6.5cm that's arguably the most accurate rifle I own, currently. It shoots consistent groups right at .3 with my handloads - 140gr Nosler BTs over 42gr H4350 in Lapua brass and CCI BR4 primers doing 2825fps. They measure 2.246 base to ogive. They're around 2.78 OAL and have plenty of room in the blind magazine. However, they're kissing my lands.

I'd take it to a local gunsmith and have him look at the chamber and let you know if there's something up with it. Then, if it IS way out of spec, you can contact Savage armed with specific ammo - excuse the pun. Everyone I know has had great luck with Savage in terms of accuracy. But, it seems like all the rifles come with some sort of minor issue. Mine had a faulty extractor that wasn't machined properly. I chose to have a local GS fix it for me for a few dollars instead of waiting on Savage to do it. If your chamber is out of spec, it's an EASY fix on a Savage- swap the barrel.

Being disappointed is natural but I wouldn't get too upset. It's a factory rifle after all and once you get it straightened out, it'll be a great shooter - Savage is just that way. Only Tikka is better out of the box.

You might try those Nosler BTs I've had such success with. Or try finding a seating depth with a big jump that your rifle likes. Even Bergers will shoot with big jumps in some rifles. On the other hand, you might find a bullet that your rifle likes a lot that isn't necessarily a popular LR bullet with super high BC. I normally shoot Bergers and intended to develop a load for this Savage but it's my wife's and she likes factory Nosler ammo loaded with those Ballistic Tips. So, I decided to work her up a handloads with them before I started playing with the HVLDS. When I found a load that produced groups in the .3s I was a little surprised. I see guys happy with their sub .75 loads using Bergers. I'll put my .3 load with BTs up against one of those loads every day of the week. My point is, I think people can get too hung up on BC. It's important, no doubt; but consistent group size is the ultimate goal, IMO.




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[orbitup]

The ticket says they reamed and polished it. I used a Stoney Point type gauge to find the lands. Since it was so far off I thought that maybe I was doing it wrong so I loaded up a dummy round at 2.91 OAL and closed the bolt on it and when I opened it back up the bullet hadn't been pushed back at all.

I guess if it doesn't shoot well I'll take it to a gunsmith before letting Savage back at it. I don't want to do that now because it'll probably take a while to get it back.

BTW my other rifle it a Savage 308 that shoots great with my reloads. That's why I went with Savage again.

 

[vh20]

Vh20, he posted: "They also scratched it up around the safety." I assume that is not in reference to his brass.

So he did, in a followup post. Sorry, I missed that. I thought you were referring to the scratches he was actually worried about - in the OP, as that's where the issues started.

 

[lash]

I know that you already have nosler and hornady on hand, but I've found that the Lapua 136 Scenar L are very forgiving on jump. They may not have the highest BC in the stable, but they will shoot lights out to 1200 all day long.

I am also of the opinion that load development starts 10 thou back and moves back from there. I've shot the 136s .090" off the lands and more when my old barrel was getting long in the throat, with great results.

 

[Sendit6.5]

Curiosity - what bullets have you been loading with so far, in this rifle?


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[orbitup]

Curiosity - what bullets have you been loading with so far, in this rifle?


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140gn. RDF and ELD-M. Thinking of trying 147 since I have so much room.