Should I build a 223 Trainer?

[Familydude]

Recently got into the bolt gun thing. Until now it was all AR platform stuff. Have a Tikka 6.5 Creed and am building an MPA Comp Chassis in 308. Through the years I’ve been fortunate to have access to good factory ammo at a crazy good rate. That’s about to dry up and I don’t reload. I still have “quite a few” rounds of 223 but I’m wondering if a 223 precision trainer is really worth the build cost? My fear is the juice won’t be worth the squeeze and I wind up with something that just sits in the safe.

 

[Sogan]

What 223 Ammo are you looking at? Match grade FGMM is basically at .308 prices for the same Ammo type. Reloading saves a good bit of money over tho other calibers

 

[jcmullis2]

Recently got into the bolt gun thing. Until now it was all AR platform stuff. Have a Tikka 6.5 Creed and am building an MPA Comp Chassis in 308. Through the years I’ve been fortunate to have access to good factory ammo at a crazy good rate. That’s about to dry up and I don’t reload. I still have “quite a few” rounds of 223 but I’m wondering if a 223 precision trainer is really worth the build cost? My fear is the juice won’t be worth the squeeze and I wind up with something that just sits in the safe.

If your ammo is the mil spec stuff I’d just run it through your AR. If you have a shit load, like several thousand rounds of match ammunition, then it certainly would be worth building. Shoot it until your ammo is all gone or your barrels rifling is. Then slap you another barrel on it. It’s definitely a great training round. Just keep in mind the 223 has the small bolt face so if you ever want to switch to a larger caliber you’ll have to get a different bolt or have that one opened up a might.
Another thing I’m sure you know but just in case you haven’t thought about it 223 rem & 5.56 NATO aren’t interchangeable. If you got 223 rem get your barrel chambered in 223 rem and if it’s 5.56 NATO get it chambered in 5.56. Your barrel will last longer and you won’t over pressure things. At least that’s what they say.

 

[Familydude]

If your ammo is the mil spec stuff I’d just run it through your AR. If you have a shit load, like several thousand rounds of match ammunition, then it certainly would be worth building. Shoot it until your ammo is all gone or your barrels rifling is. Then slap you another barrel on it. It’s definitely a great training round. Just keep in mind the 223 has the small bolt face so if you ever want to switch to a larger caliber you’ll have to get a different bolt or have that one opened up a might.
Another thing I’m sure you know but just in case you haven’t thought about it 223 rem & 5.56 NATO aren’t interchangeable. If you got 223 rem get your barrel chambered in 223 rem and if it’s 5.56 NATO get it chambered in 5.56. Your barrel will last longer and you won’t over pressure things. At least that’s what they say.

Thanks for the info. It’s boatload of a mix between Federal Gold Dot 62 grain and American Eagle 55 grain. I guess with the right set up it might be a good time. Halfway there with a chassis. Guess I’ll start looking for parts. Going to start having to sell vital organs on the black market to afford this hobby.

 

[Familydude]

What 223 Ammo are you looking at? Match grade FGMM is basically at .308 prices for the same Ammo type. Reloading saves a good bit of money over tho other calibers

I have Federal Gold Dot 65 grain and American Eagle 55 grain. A good mix of the two. Have considered reloading but am a little intimidated by some of the horror stories out there. Know a couple guys that are lucky to have fingers and a face. I’m sure when it’s done right there are really no concerns. Don’t know if I’m ready to risk it yet.

 

[jcmullis2]

I’m with you on that, it’s damn sure not cheap. I’m sure you’ll be able to find some good prices here on the Hide for the parts you want. Do you know what action you want to go with?

 

[Familydude]

I’m with you on that, it’s damn sure not cheap. I’m sure you’ll be able to find some good prices here on the Hide for the parts you want. Do you know what action you want to go with?

Already bought a barreled Remington 308 action yesterday from a solid dude on here. I’ll probably go Remington or clone again for the 223. Have an MPA chassis I was going to sell but looks like I’m keeping her.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Yes it's absolutely worth it. Especially if you don't go stupid, here's my trainer. Rem 700 SPS. I just sort brass by headstamp and load a cheap Hornady bullet over blc-2.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Build a 308 trainer. It will exploit your fundamental weaknesses, exploit your wind calls, still with great barrel life.

Most say 223 trainer. I say 308.

 

[Familydude]

Yes it's absolutely worth it. Especially if you don't go stupid, here's my trainer. Rem 700 SPS. I just sort brass by headstamp and load a cheap Hornady bullet over blc-2. View attachment 7328355View attachment 7328356

Nice set up you’ve got there. I’m pretty convinced now. I was hoping to be talked out of it, but this is the wrong place for that! Some pretty compelling arguments to get it done. So, here I go.

 

[Familydude]

Build a 308 trainer. It will exploit your fundamental weaknesses, exploit your wind calls, still with great barrel life.

Most say 223 trainer. I say 308.

I’m already building a 308 Precision and have a couple AR10’s. I’d have to run across one for next to free to add to the 308 collection.

 

[jcmullis2]

Those are some good looking chassis and they aren’t cheap. There’s new Remington 700 ADL’s in 223 with a heavy/varmint barrel available that might appeal to you for about $425 after the $75 rebate. My buddy grabbed one up the other day. Remove the plastic stock and drop the barreled action in your chassis. Slap a scope on it and your done. Just something to think about

 

[Familydude]

Those are some good looking chassis and they aren’t cheap. There’s new Remington 700 ADL’s in 223 with a heavy/varmint barrel available that might appeal to you for about $425 after the $75 rebate. My buddy grabbed one up the other day. Remove the plastic stock and drop the barreled action in your chassis. Slap a scope on it and your done. Just something to think about

Yeah, been wanting one for a while. Finally made it happen. Really appreciate the info on the Remington, that’s about what I’m looking to spend. Running out of stuff to sell...

 

[MRiles]

Build a 308 trainer. It will exploit your fundamental weaknesses, exploit your wind calls, still with great barrel life.

Most say 223 trainer. I say 308.

I love the .223, it is what I use in FTR. For my trainer I have a .308, for the above reasons. The .223 will allow some squirellyness that you can't hide in the .308.

 

[Familydude]

I love the .223, it is what I use in FTR. For my trainer I have a .308, for the above reasons. The .223 will allow some squirellyness that you can't hide in the .308.

Definitely a consideration. At this point it comes down to access and cost effectiveness. I’m swimming in 223 rounds. A bit less in 308.

 

[steve123]

Thank God I'm not dependent on factory ammo, seriously!

If it's windy out and if you plan on shooting at smaller targets past 600Y, 223 factory ammo sucks! It's because of wind drift and being harder to see where you miss in the grass.

It's amazes me how easy it is to hit a 1' sized circle shaped steel at 500Y with a .224 70gr bullet going 2600 fps but how difficult it is to hit the same plate at 800Y!!! Same thing for a 308 with 155's going 150fps faster. Both in fairly windy conditions.

Lens of perspective - it's almost never calm out where I live and if I'm missing half the time to the left and to the right of the steel I feel like I'm wasting ammo, plus I hate to miss anyway so I'm not having fun.

Two top shelf instructors used to shoot at a long range steel match I went to, they used factory 175's in their 308's, both struggled greatly even though they taught long range for a living. If they found it hard...

If it's windy where you live get a 6.5 Creed and hit stuff more often.

 

[Familydude]

Thank God I'm not dependent on factory ammo, seriously!

If it's windy out and if you plan on shooting at smaller targets past 600Y, 223 factory ammo sucks! It's because of wind drift and being harder to see where you miss in the grass.

It's amazes me how easy it is to hit a 1' sized circle shaped steel at 500Y with a .224 70gr bullet going 2600 fps but how difficult it is to hit the same plate at 800Y!!! Same thing for a 308 with 155's going 150fps faster. Both in fairly windy conditions.

Lens of perspective - it's almost never calm out where I live and if I'm missing half the time to the left and to the right of the steel I feel like I'm wasting ammo, plus I hate to miss anyway so I'm not having fun.

Two top shlef instructors used to shoot at a long range steel match I went to, they used factory 175's in their 308's, both struggled greatly and even though they taught long range for a living. If they found it hard...

If it's windy where you live get a 6.5 Creed and hit stuff more often.

It doesn’t get crazy windy where I am but we have our days. I have a Tikka 6.5 Creed but Hornady match is not cheap. I’m guessing if I sort of bounce between the two I can keep the rust away without breaking the bank.

 

[steve123]

I built a 223AI while I had a 6mmBR, why I thought I had to try the 223AI is what I ask myself, lol. I should have sold my barrel certificate instead then bought 6mm bullets with the money.

 

[1moaoff]

Trainers are designed to save money really...
My trainer is 308.... why?
Because 308 barrels last a looking time.
I can load anything from 125gr to 180 and shoot through a 10 twist.
Recoil is dep2ndany on how you load it. My match rifles are 6mm and 6.5. I can load 308 with 125 gr and still have to manage recoil or miss shots.

I have 22 a d 223 I could use as a trainer but theres no replacement for recoil in training

 

[Familydude]

I built a 223AI while I had a 6mmBR, why I thought I had to try the 223AI is what I ask myself, lol. I should have sold my barrel certificate instead then bought 6mm bullets with the money.

Exactly. Can’t say I’ve made the most prudent fiscal decisions when it comes to this hobby.

 

[Familydude]

Trainers are designed to save money really...
My trainer is 308.... why?
Because 308 barrels last a looking time.
I can load anything from 125gr to 180 and shoot through a 10 twist.
Recoil is dep2ndany on how you load it. My match rifles are 6mm and 6.5. I can load 308 with 125 gr and still have to manage recoil or miss shots.

I have 22 a d 223 I could use as a trainer but theres no replacement for recoil in training

All good points. I guess it comes down to preference and access to Ammo.

 

[MarinePMI]

You're in California. Learn to reload. End of story.

There's plenty of us around the Esco area that can show you the ropes...

 

[MarinePMI]

And there's a long range match next Sunday at Pala, to look at various options for rifles, chassis, gear, etc...

 

[deersniper]

Build a 308 trainer. It will exploit your fundamental weaknesses, exploit your wind calls, still with great barrel life.

Most say 223 trainer. I say 308.

Yup

Can’t practice recoil management without recoil


223 is more fun tho

 

[jcmullis2]

All good points. I guess it comes down to preference and access to Ammo.

1moaoff makes a damn good point about recoil. You can hone just about all your shooting techniques with a 223. Just about.... Don’t be surprised if your improved skills aren’t visible on paper with a heavy recoil rifle. That was definitely the case with me. Heavy equipment and muzzle brakes can help reduce the recoil but IMO you just can’t train for a heavy recoil rifle with a 223. Although I did figure out a trick to deal with rifles that have lots of recoil. I just don’t shoot the damn things. Lmmfao

 

[Familydude]

And there's a long range match next Sunday at Pala, to look at various options for rifles, chassis, gear, etc...

Yeah, been there a few times. Some good looking stuff coming through.

 

[Familydude]

You're in California. Learn to reload. End of story.

There's plenty of us around the Esco area that can show you the ropes...
[/QUOTE
Know a few guys that reload. They swear by it. Have priced out gear Etc. Still on the fence.

 

[Basher]

I’m with the .308 guys. I’d LOVE to have a .223 (or .223AI), but after pricing out factory ammo, it wasn’t any less expensive than a .308, and I get better range and recoil control practice with the .308. I’ll have a .223 bolt gun eventually, but for now I went with a .22 since the ammo savings are significant even with higher grade stuff like Center-X, Midas+, or Eley Tenex.

Your stated ammo stash likely won’t prove as accurate as you’d like for a trainer. You won’t get the kind of accuracy that you’ll need to be able to tell if it’s you or the ammo that’s throwing shots, IMO. Doesn’t mean it won’t be a good time, but for an actual trainer, I don’t think it’ll be as helpful as you‘d hope.

In my opinion, unless you have significant amounts of discretionary funds to play with, it would be better to put your money towards acquiring more quality .308 or 6.5CM ammo so you can continue to feed those rifles.

 

[1moaoff]

Train with equal to or more recoil than you plan to shoot in a match.

 

[MRiles]

Train with equal to or more recoil than you plan to shoot in a match.

and NO muzzle break......

 

[1moaoff]

I actually keep a brake on it so the blast and noise is the same.

 

[MRiles]

I actually keep a brake on it so the blast and noise is the same.

I can see that; however, as a trainer I wanted to accentuate all forces that could negatively influence my recoil management.

 

[Familydude]

I’m with the .308 guys. I’d LOVE to have a .223 (or .223AI), but after pricing out factory ammo, it wasn’t any less expensive than a .308, and I get better range and recoil control practice with the .308. I’ll have a .223 bolt gun eventually, but for now I went with a .22 since the ammo savings are significant even with higher grade stuff like Center-X, Midas+, or Eley Tenex.

Your stated ammo stash likely won’t prove as accurate as you’d like for a trainer. You won’t get the kind of accuracy that you’ll need to be able to tell if it’s you or the ammo that’s throwing shots, IMO. Doesn’t mean it won’t be a good time, but for an actual trainer, I don’t think it’ll be as helpful as you‘d hope.

In my opinion, unless you have significant amounts of discretionary funds to play with, it would be better to put your money towards acquiring more quality .308 or 6.5CM ammo so you can continue to feed those rifles.

Appreciate the response. That has been the dilemma: build the .223 and use what ammo I have, or just get more .308 and 6.5 CM. instead. No lotto winnings to speak of, so discretionary funds aren’t vast, but do allow for this hobby. Maybe the answer is really just to learn to reload what I already shoot. As much as I’d probably enjoy just plinking, there has to be more benefit to the exercise. Great points made by everyone here. Tons of knowledge to take advantage of.

 

[jcmullis2]

I can see that; however, as a trainer I wanted to accentuate all forces that could negatively influence my recoil management.

This is a little off topic so forgive me. The biggest force that can negatively influence my shooting is large breasted women. Unfortunately not as often as I’d like. Those things are true forces of nature. It’s to bad that more of them don’t get involved in this sport.

 

[Familydude]

This is a little off topic so forgive me. The biggest force that can negatively influence my shooting is large breasted women. Unfortunately not as often as I’d like. Those things are true forces of nature. It’s to bad that more of them don’t get involved in this sport.

I’m surprised it took this long for the conversation to head down this path...

 

[Jabot]

223 trainer is the way to go in my opinion. Get a hornady cheap bullet, and some cheaper primers and your set .mine is a match to my match rifle, same scope ,chassis and relatively same barrel

 

[Familydude]

Thanks. Lots to consider.

 

[PAYDIRT]

223 trainer is the way to go in my opinion. Get a hornady cheap bullet, and some cheaper primers and your set .mine is a match to my match rifle, same scope ,chassis and relatively same barrel

"Did we just become best friends"

 

[Sogan]

223 trainer is the way to go in my opinion. Get a hornady cheap bullet, and some cheaper primers and your set .mine is a match to my match rifle, same scope ,chassis and relatively same barrel

What cheap bullet are you using and what’s your results?

 

[siscoe308]

I’m building a 223 heavy that be really close to my x47.

but I’m not calling it a trainer. It’s a way to shoot cheap brass/cheaper bullets with the same-ish egos.

 

[diggler1833]

I've got a .223 "trainer". It mostly serves duty as a rifle that I let new shooters try shooting at a reasonable distance with. It's disgustingly accurate for a cheap factory rifle, and has very little recoil...perfect for bringing a smile to someone's face when they bust a clay pigeon at 400 yards for the first time.

 

[Jabot]

What cheap bullet are you using and what’s your results?

Hornady 75 hpbt .it shoots decent just over 1/2 minute. I use it for 500 and under to practice obstacles, if I miss I promise its not because of the bullet

 

[jcmullis2]

As a AR guy I’m sure you already know to match your ammo to your barrels twist rate. To get the best accuracy from your 55 &62 grain stuff get something like about a 1:9 twist if you can. You might can get by with the 1:12 on the rem 700 adl that I suggested but I can’t say for sure.

 

[Familydude]

I’ll look into it. Probably suffice until I swap out barrels at some point-sooner rather than later- for a decent price. Still kicking it all around. Lots of thing to think about. Seems the decision wasn’t as cut and dry as I’d assumed.

 

[jcmullis2]

I’ll look into it. Probably suffice until I swap out barrels at some point-sooner rather than later- for a decent price. Still kicking it all around. Lots of thing to think about. Seems the decision wasn’t as cut and dry as I’d assumed.

The twist rate thing had totally slipped my mind

I’ll look into it. Probably suffice until I swap out barrels at some point-sooner rather than later- for a decent price. Still kicking it all around. Lots of thing to think about. Seems the decision wasn’t as cut and dry as I’d assumed.

Check out the Remington 700 Xcr long range tactical in 223 with the factory aluminum bedded green sniper stock. The guy that has it told me, a few months ago, he’d take something like 800 bucks because he never shoots it. It looked new to me and was still in the box. I almost grabbed it up but I already have a couple of 223s. I’m almost positive he still has it. I think it would make a great trainer. It’s just one more thing you might wanna consider.

 

[Familydude]

I’ll take a look. I’m a lefty so....Might be something I’d need to order if I decide to dive into this.

 

[jcmullis2]

You’re right about ordering something because there’s not much stuff out there for lefties.

 

[Familydude]

Don’t I know it.

 

[Jabot]

U can do u Remington action with a criterion barell, krg Bravo stock fairly cheap.or step up to a bighorn orgin for 500 more .I got the orgin its pretty nice for the money

 

[Familydude]

Thanks. I have an MPA Comp chassis set to go. Was for sale, now it’s not! I think I need an intervention.