Should I use Lee Collet die?

[Freedomaintfree]

I just got 200 pcs of new Gunwerks brass for my 300wm. I plan on loading 215 hybrids in a Christensen Ridgeline.

I am still very new to reloading and trying to figure out neck tension and runout. Is a Collet die the right move for sizing once fired brass for this rifle?

I want this brass to last. I had purchased a RCBS FL die set and haven’t used it yet.

What’s the best / most affordable way to preserve the brass and get proper consistent neck tension with each reload?

 

[FLIGHT762]

I use a Lee Collet die, but realize this, you CANNOT keep N/O sizing a case forever. Once you have to beat your bolt handle open with a 2X4 you will figure this out. I learned, like many, the hard way. I use the Lee Collet die 3-4 times then F/L size with a regular die or a Redding (preferred) BODY DIE.

The Lee Collet die is a great tool, used properly, it makes very accurate ammo. For my gas guns, I use the Lee Collet die with a F/L body for each loading. I don't mind the 2 stage extra work. I am a fan of the Collet die.
Also realize there will be some cry baby M/F that will come along in this thread that will decry this method and tell to to do something else. Listen to all of the replies and see where the consensus lies before you make your decision.

 

[Mainer]

Annealing after every few loadings will help keep the neck of the brass from getting brittle.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Invest in one or two extra mandrels for the collet die.
Turn to the diameter you need for the tension you want.
Full length without a mandrel or the body only die doesn't work the neck as much as regular F/L sizing.

Watch the force you put on the collet die. You can feel the case neck being sized down. A little more force than that is ALL you need.

 

[straightshooter1]

I just got 200 pcs of new Gunwerks brass for my 300wm. I plan on loading 215 hybrids in a Christensen Ridgeline.

I am still very new to reloading and trying to figure out neck tension and runout. Is a Collet die the right move for sizing once fired brass for this rifle?

I want this brass to last. I had purchased a RCBS FL die set and haven’t used it yet.

What’s the best / most affordable way to preserve the brass and get proper consistent neck tension with each reload?

A collet die is a good way to go, but you'll need to bump the shoulders to get proper and consistent head space when using one. You probably won't have to bump the shoulder's all the time, but it's a good practice when neck sizing. Note too, when using a collet die (particularly the Lee die) you'l want to ram it twice with a 1/8 turn inbetween so the spaces between the fingers of the die don't leave a minute bump on the neck. I use the Lee Collet Die often and this is what I learned to do. Also, after a few firings, it's likely you'll need to do a full length sizing and you'll know when that time comes by the case being too tight to chamber after you've sized the neck and bumped the shoulder.

To get good consistent neck tension and runout, when you use a FL die, remove the expander ball and store it away. Use the die without it and run an Expander Mandrel though the neck. This tends to produce much better results than with an expander ball in the sizing die.

Also for your goal of "proper consistent neck tension", annealing is a big factor.

 

[Dobbs02si]

I'm on the collet die boat as well. I get 3 firings before I feel resistance on the bolt closing with Win brass in a 243. I then FL with a reamed hornady die without the mandrel and trim. I love not having to trim when neck sizing with the collet die. I did have to polish about thou off the mandrel to get correct neck tension though. Small price to pay.

 

[Steel head]

I run them through a LCD 3 times then anneal and run them though a body die as well.

 

[gigamortis]

I am also a fan of the LCD. About every 4th firing, I do have to bump my shoulders with a Redding body die along with one of Redding's +.006" competition shell holders. This gives me a .002" bump for my brass in my chamber. The Redding body dies usually run a little on the short side, so if you use a standard shell holder, you will find that your shoulders get bumped way too much which eventually results in a case head separation from case wall thinning just above the extractor groove. I always set my body and full length sizing dies so that the top of the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die for consistent sizing and bump. Some folks try to adjust their shoulder bump my screwing their body die out some, but bumps tend to not be consistent from the lack of a hard stop at the bottom of the die. The Redding competition shell holder set solves this problem by letting you consistently control the bump amount for your particular body die and action headspace.

One anomaly I have seen with some of the LCDs is the occasional dragging on the case neck and crushed case shoulders. Some die bodies don't have enough vertical room in them to let the collet fingers fully retract. The fix for this is to slightly unscrew the top cap of the die until you can rotate the collet finger piece from the bottom with your fingers. This new cap position is usually within about 1/4 turn from full tight and the new position remains retained by the cap o-ring friction. After loosening the cap some to free up the collet finger piece, you may have to screw the die deeper into your press to get the same sizing pressure against the mandrel as before. For $30-35 average cost, the LCD is one of the best values for neck sizing out there and you don't need to mess with any neck lube to size necks. Neck runout is next to nothing with the LCD, too.

 

[Freedomaintfree]

Thanks for the help. I ask one question and I wind up with 10 more.

Would the Redding type s bushing die require less annealing and get similar results in preserving brass and precise neck tension?

 

[straightshooter1]

Thanks for the help. I ask one question and I wind up with 10 more.

Would the Redding type s bushing die require less annealing and get similar results in preserving brass and precise neck tension?

Using a die with bushings is not really a good idea unless one is turning necks , because . . . when the bushing runs over the outside of the neck it pushes the outside neck surface irregularities from the outside to the inside where the bullet makes contact (effects the concentricity of the neck as well as the bullet). Using an Expander Mandrel does just the opposite moving inside irregularities to the outside so when you seat a bullet you get more consistent bullet concentricity AND seating resistance (having to do with the friction the neck has on the bullet). The "Neck Tension" should actually be more consistent with the use of an Expander Mandrel than the use of a bushing . . . again, unless you're also turning the necks.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I think the logic of using the Collet Die and no other neck sizing at all is the case neck would have expanded to chamber size then reduced maybe 0.001" under chamber. The collet then forms the neck to -0.002" under bullet diameter. Neck fits bullet. A body only die to size the body and bump the shoulder doesn't move the shoulder more than 0.002 to 0.004". That's about the least resizing you can do to a piece of brass.
Some go for even less bump except with an AR maybe.

A full length die will size the neck down more than needed and the expander opens it up.
That logic is flawed. Neck worked down more than needed and stretched back to load diameter.
Ouch.
A bushing die, which many like can also be set up to do minimal working of the brass but it really takes some set up to get everything right.

Moving the brass hardens the brass. The body only and collect neck dies allows you to size with minimal work hardening.
It also might reduce trimming requirements, throwing away some of the brass each time you trim.

When I collet size a neck I also do the turn and resize thing. Mostly from habit. Feeling the brass hit the mandrel, and applying just a little more pressure is about as far as you need to go.
Crank down on it and you will get marks.
My press doesn't cam over so I set the die to stop at about the correct load.
Cam over might be needed if your are doing a forceful operation but not for collet neck sizing.

 

[straightshooter1]

A full length die will size the neck down more than needed and the expander opens it up.
That logic is flawed. Neck worked down more than needed and stretched back to load diameter.
Ouch.
A bushing die, which many like can also be set up to do minimal working of the brass but it really takes some set up to get everything right.

Agree that the standard FL sizing die wll neck down more than needed and creating more work on the brass to open it up to the correct size. This is why I've had my FL sizing die honed to where where running a expander mandrel through the neck does very little work on the brass . . . maybe even less than when using a bushing die. Again, I find that the big thing for me about a bushing die is that it tends to create significant runout on an a neck that hasn't been turned as well as the runout on the bullet is more severe. Of course, this kind of thing may not be an issue for some types of shooting. . .

or for those who aren't so anal.

 

[karb]

This is verbatim to my experience, and exactly my method.

I am also a fan of the LCD. About every 4th firing, I do have to bump my shoulders with a Redding body die along with one of Redding's +.006" competition shell holders. This gives me a .002" bump for my brass in my chamber. The Redding body dies usually run a little on the short side, so if you use a standard shell holder, you will find that your shoulders get bumped way too much which eventually results in a case head separation from case wall thinning just above the extractor groove. I always set my body and full length sizing dies so that the top of the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die for consistent sizing and bump. Some folks try to adjust their shoulder bump my screwing their body die out some, but bumps tend to not be consistent from the lack of a hard stop at the bottom of the die. The Redding competition shell holder set solves this problem by letting you consistently control the bump amount for your particular body die and action headspace.

One anomaly I have seen with some of the LCDs is the occasional dragging on the case neck and crushed case shoulders. Some die bodies don't have enough vertical room in them to let the collet fingers fully retract. The fix for this is to slightly unscrew the top cap of the die until you can rotate the collet finger piece from the bottom with your fingers. This new cap position is usually within about 1/4 turn from full tight and the new position remains retained by the cap o-ring friction. After loosening the cap some to free up the collet finger piece, you may have to screw the die deeper into your press to get the same sizing pressure against the mandrel as before. For $30-35 average cost, the LCD is one of the best values for neck sizing out there and you don't need to mess with any neck lube to size necks. Neck runout is next to nothing with the LCD, too.

 

[Fret]

I think I'm the exception in that accuracy went down when using the LCD for .223. I adjusted the LCD just to the point where the neck diameter would no longer decrease. I went back to using a FL bushing die then using a mandrel. Just went to the range and accuracy returned when shooting 5 shot groups at 100 yards:

 

[straightshooter1]

I adjusted the LCD just to the point where the neck diameter would no longer decrease.

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you mean, where "neck diameter would not longer decrease"??? Would you explain further, please?

 

[Rocketvapor]

@Fret
What did you use for the body/shoulder when you used the LCD?
FL without the bushing?
I run the LCD down so I feel the soft brass crush and then a little more pressure. But not really hard.
Turn and hit it again, slowly.
I also had to sand down the LCD stem to get enough neck tension.
Then I bought an undersize stem (about $5) with my next order.

 

[Fret]

I pretty much followed the instructions here:

Lee Collet Die Instructions

Back last year there was a discussion going on regarding Lee Collet Dies. Somebody wrote a detailed set of instructions on how they used the dies that differed somewhat from the factory instructions. I bought a few Collet Dies over the summer and used the 8X57 die and those instructions ...

www.24hourcampfire.com

I used the LCD after using a Redding body die.

 

[straightshooter1]

I pretty much followed the instructions here:

Lee Collet Die Instructions

Back last year there was a discussion going on regarding Lee Collet Dies. Somebody wrote a detailed set of instructions on how they used the dies that differed somewhat from the factory instructions. I bought a few Collet Dies over the summer and used the 8X57 die and those instructions ...

www.24hourcampfire.com

I used the LCD after using a Redding body die.

Got it (understood now).

 

[NATE40]

A collet die is a good way to go, but you'll need to bump the shoulders to get proper and consistent head space when using one. You probably won't have to bump the shoulder's all the time, but it's a good practice when neck sizing. Note too, when using a collet die (particularly the Lee die) you'l want to ram it twice with a 1/8 turn inbetween so the spaces between the fingers of the die don't leave a minute bump on the neck. I use the Lee Collet Die often and this is what I learned to do. Also, after a few firings, it's likely you'll need to do a full length sizing and you'll know when that time comes by the case being too tight to chamber after you've sized the neck and bumped the shoulder.

To get good consistent neck tension and runout, when you use a FL die, remove the expander ball and store it away. Use the die without it and run an Expander Mandrel though the neck. This tends to produce much better results than with an expander ball in the sizing die.

Also for your goal of "proper consistent neck tension", annealing is a big factor.

I agree 100% anneal before the case is sized on all reloads every time before loading

 

[supercorndogs]

I think I'm the exception in that accuracy went down when using the LCD for .223. I adjusted the LCD just to the point where the neck diameter would no longer decrease. I went back to using a FL bushing die then using a mandrel. Just went to the range and accuracy returned when shooting 5 shot groups at 100 yards:

Na, I see the same problem when collet sizing only. Some cases chamber a little tight, some don't. The groups open up when that happens. A tight case started a little ball of metal on a bolt lug. That galled its way into a mess. Due to those problems, and the quality of ammo that comes from standard full length die, with only one trip through the press. I barley use my collet dies anymore. They are good for straightening buggered up necks. I usually use one on my once fired 300wm because they never fill the chamber on their first firing. Peterson 300WM long brass will probably change that.

 

[JOE62]

I noticed the other day that the new LCD’s are designed to flare the mouth of the case to facilitate lead bullet seating. Who in the hell is using lead bullets in a 300 Magnum? I have used them in the past and will continue to do so with the LCD’s I currently have but will not be ordering any new ones or recommending them any longer.

 

[Steel head]

I noticed the other day that the new LCD’s are designed to flare the mouth of the case to facilitate lead bullet seating. Who in the hell is using lead bullets in a 300 Magnum? I have used them in the past and will continue to do so with the LCD’s I currently have but will not be ordering any new ones or recommending them any longer.

That’s just dumb!
WTF Lee?

 

[Evintos]

I noticed the other day that the new LCD’s are designed to flare the mouth of the case to facilitate lead bullet seating. Who in the hell is using lead bullets in a 300 Magnum? I have used them in the past and will continue to do so with the LCD’s I currently have but will not be ordering any new ones or recommending them any longer.

Damn, you weren't joking.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/lee-collet-dies/

 

[JOE62]

I wasn’t joking about not buying any more of them or recommending them to anyone else. Oh well. The ones I have were made before that literary genius talked them into changing the design to facilitate easier bullet starting in the neck. A 300 WM has a neck .264 long and it needs every thousandths of it to keep the bullets in place. Sounds like something Remington would do.

 

[Steel head]

Sounds like something Remington would do.

Nailed it!