Shouldering a rifle with plate carrier.

[Jefe's Dope]

Setting up my plate carrier with Hesco 3810s and I'm finding in extremely difficult to get a good shoulder hold with my rifles. I've tried several and the ones I can shorten the LOP the most, work best. But getting the buttstock good and planted against my shoulder or plates is proving difficult. I can get it in position, it just isn't very secure and I find the buttstock to slip off. This is just dry firing. I'm afraid to think what it might be like in actual firing and especially a dynamic firing situation.

Any help would be appreciated. NOT looking to change equipment. So not shooter cut plate recommendations, please.

JPC 2.0 plate carrier in medium with Hesco 3810s in medium SAPI.

 

[PBWalsh]

Anyway you can take a picture of yourself while shouldering the rifle? When I’m using a PC, I have a tendency to slightly cant the rifle inboard. By slightly, I mean probably <15*. That said, when I shoot prone or other supported positions, I do not cant the rifle.

I assume the PC is fitted properly to you (front plate up at the clavicle notch and the rear plate up high on the back)?

Also, my work rifle has a basic M4 stock whereas my personal rifles have BCM/Magpul stocks. The M4 stock’s plastic “buttpad” slips easily but the others do not due to having a rubber buttpad.

Collapsing the stock can help, but assuming your running the shoulder straps naked, it shouldn’t be a huge difference as the JPC looks pretty thin in that area.

 

[LawnMM]

Practice more, it's different with plates, period.

 

[Oleshep]

Practice more, it's different with plates, period.

Very Different. Try putting the toe of the stock to the inside of the shoulder strap and on top of the plate.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Anyway you can take a picture of yourself while shouldering the rifle? When I’m using a PC, I have a tendency to slightly cant the rifle inboard. By slightly, I mean probably <15*. That said, when I shoot prone or other supported positions, I do not cant the rifle.

I assume the PC is fitted properly to you (front plate up at the clavicle notch and the rear plate up high on the back)?

Also, my work rifle has a basic M4 stock whereas my personal rifles have BCM/Magpul stocks. The M4 stock’s plastic “buttpad” slips easily but the others do not due to having a rubber buttpad.

Collapsing the stock can help, but assuming your running the shoulder straps naked, it shouldn’t be a huge difference as the JPC looks pretty thin in that area.

I can post some pics but I think I'm sized right. I've tried two different buttstocks, an original MOE and an UBR. The MOE is better only because I can collapse it more and gets my nose closer to the charging handle.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Slow it down and pay attention to the mechanics of the mount, as has been mentioned reduced LOP and a slight inboard cant are helpful - add your helmet and see if you are bringing the optic to the eye, or your eye to the optic.

 

[TheGerman]

They're SAPI sized, so thats part of the learning curve.

Step 1 - Put your shooting arm out next to you and put your forearm up like you're making an L.

Step 2 - Put your carbine in your hand like you would grab it to shoot and extend/retract the stock position to where the stock is just touching the bend in your arm. That's your proper stock position.

Step 3 - Stop blading your torso when you bring your weapon up. Get as straight towards your target as you naturally can. Most people will stand in a 'fighting stance' where your strong side leg is WAY behind your front leg. For reference, when I shoot, my right foot toes are basically across from the rear of my left foot boot. You basically want to stand like you were walking naturally and stopped.

Step 4 - Find the sweet spot of where the carbine stock goes to where you can look through the site while not doing some weird head crane maneuver. Cant the carbine inwards slightly towards your face; basically have the stock angle along the cut in the upper plate.

Step 5 - Practice getting it into that exact spot from a low ready with the buttstock tip as a reference point as well as from a high port.

Also look into a smaller stock like the Magpul MOE SLK

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I guess I found an okay spot while taking these pics. But I'd prefer it more inboard.


Clearly, training with the gear is the best solution. Just hoping to get some advice on placement from those in the know.

 

[TheGerman]

Try it like this.

Your stock is way too forward.

And get that firing elbow more towards your body.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Try it like this.

Your stock is way too forward.

And get that firing elbow more towards your body.

I don't normally have it all the way forward. Neglected to extend it for the pics. I took all your advice in your previous post and it helped immensely, especially the LOP method and canting the rifle, and I think I've found a secure, repeatable, and somewhat comfortable position.

I'm also heeding your LARPing the the living room advice.

 

[TheGerman]

Load your mags and pouches in the front as well as what you would always have with you with that zip on attached.

Then check and make sure the top of both plates are positioned to where they are almost identical ride height front/back. This prevents all sorts of shoulder/trap strain.

Apparently Crye also just released this: http://cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/armtr102lg0_modular-trap-armor-set

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Load your mags and pouches in the front as well as what you would always have with you with that zip on attached.

Then check and make sure the top of both plates are positioned to where they are almost identical ride height front/back. This prevents all sorts of shoulder/trap strain.

Apparently Crye also just released this: http://cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/armtr102lg0_modular-trap-armor-set

There's three mags in the front pouch. I'm learning quickly to balance your load to front and back. Like carrying two buckets, one in each hand, vs. just one bucket. Which I think is what you're saying. Also, with the multi curve plates, I get a more balanced fit taking some of the load off my shoulders if it's tighter rather than looser. Just another reason for MC plates.

Any recommendations on the sizing for the shoulder armor? I ask because they have small - xtra large. I didn't see a sizing guide.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Load your mags and pouches in the front as well as what you would always have with you with that zip on attached.

Then check and make sure the top of both plates are positioned to where they are almost identical ride height front/back. This prevents all sorts of shoulder/trap strain.

Apparently Crye also just released this: http://cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/armtr102lg0_modular-trap-armor-set

There's three mags in the front pouch. I'm learning quickly to balance your load to front and back. Like carrying two buckets, one in each hand, vs. just one bucket. Which I think is what you're saying.

Any recommendations on the sizing for the shoulder armor? I ask because they have small - xtra large. I didn't see a sizing guide.

NM, I assume you just go w/ what carrier size you have.

 

[TheGerman]

There's three mags in the front pouch. I'm learning quickly to balance your load to front and back. Like carrying two buckets, one in each hand, vs. just one bucket. Which I think is what you're saying.

Any recommendations on the sizing for the shoulder armor? I ask because they have small - xtra large. I didn't see a sizing guide.

NM, I assume you just go w/ what carrier size you have.

I sent them an email a few days ago asking the same thing as I was going to try them on my SPC as the shoulder padding sucks.

 

[tylerradke]

I am struggling with mine as well. It is a shellback banshee 2.0 and never owning or wearing a pc before I didn't realise that the designers are idiots. The pc seems to be very well built but whoever thought to put big clips right where you shoulder your rifle should be beat with said loaded pc. I can get a half assed secure mount with it if I can't the rifle a good 25°, other than that it slips off to the outside of my shoulder straps.

 

[Jigstick]

Plate shape can definitely impact getting the rifle comfortable. Shooters and swimmers cut give you a little more room for shouldering at the cost of less coverage. But I find when I’m shouldering the rifle I’m tucked in nice and tight and don’t “feel” more vulnerable.

I’m using the B5 Sopmod stocks which have a beveled rear end. Seems to help me get that rifle right where it needs to be. I wear a Mayflower plate carrier with Haley chest rigs via swift clips

 

[PBWalsh]

Echoing what others have stated. Tuck your chicken wing (elbow) and extend the stock a few notches.

Might could also be of benefit to get a higher optic mount. For me, its a much more comfortable heads up position and also benefits from needing less movement to bring the gun to target.

 

[loveha]

Feet shoulder width apart and square to your target, you can place your strong side leg back a little for recoil support, but stay square. What good is a plate carrier if your torso is sideways on a two way range and your plate is not going to take the bullet? Also, like mentioned, no chicken wing. Best advice I can recall from when I was in the Marine Corps. I loved the first vest I had when I went in in 05' but by the time I deployed we got these heavy fucking things with side sapis and they sucked for shouldering your rifle.

 

[pmclaine]

Apparently Crye also just released this: http://cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/armtr102lg0_modular-trap-armor-set

You buy that trap add yet?

Make you feel like a Mormon Ox pulling a cart?

 

[TheGerman]

You buy that trap add yet?

Make you feel like a Mormon Ox pulling a cart?

Nope. I like the idea of something more comfortable than the shoulder pads on the SPC which were a total afterthought, but the trap thing is total overkill.

Ended up going with these which are fantastic: https://www.axladvanced.com/products/structural-shoulder-pads

 

[mark5pt56]

Just saw this, great input, I would add to just use the toe of the stock and have a more up right head position. Using the toe only will force that head position and enable a more center line position with the rifle.

 

[PBWalsh]

To add to @mark5pt56, a higher optic will help as well. I like the 1.93“ for a general use LPVO. I’d definitely consider a 2”+ for a dedicated CQB gun though.

 

[mark5pt56]

Adding LOP to this, in my opinion based on use and observations of others, most people run stocks way to short. From a leverage standpoint, a correct LOP helps anchor the gun into your pocket and minimizes excessive gun movement which also mitigates potential malfunctions.
As a reference, I'm 5'9" and even with armor would run my stock to full extension with a dot optic or irons.
Of course with minimized gun movement you are more efficient.

 

[PBWalsh]

^^^^ Somebody’s got orangutan arms! Haha yeah, fiting the rifle properly is very important for balance and leverage. Good point.

 

[mark5pt56]

I carry 8 bandaids in my pocket

 

[pineoak]

To add to @mark5pt56, a higher optic will help as well. I like the 1.93“ for a general use LPVO. I’d definitely consider a 2”+ for a dedicated CQB gun though.

+1

 

[pineoak]

Very Different. Try putting the toe of the stock to the inside of the shoulder strap and on top of the plate.

+1

 

[pineoak]

Anyway you can take a picture of yourself while shouldering the rifle? When I’m using a PC, I have a tendency to slightly cant the rifle inboard. By slightly, I mean probably <15*. That said, when I shoot prone or other supported positions, I do not cant the rifle.

I assume the PC is fitted properly to you (front plate up at the clavicle notch and the rear plate up high on the back)?

Also, my work rifle has a basic M4 stock whereas my personal rifles have BCM/Magpul stocks. The M4 stock’s plastic “buttpad” slips easily but the others do not due to having a rubber buttpad.

Collapsing the stock can help, but assuming your running the shoulder straps naked, it shouldn’t be a huge difference as the JPC looks pretty thin in that area.

+1

good PC and plate picks

you have lots of real estate to work with going off pics; you may be one of the few that can run a buttstock the same with with and without a PC

most people will NOT be running the stock the same as without plates. it's more of a bottom/toe of buttstock to higher up on chest but below clavicle anchor point using the bottom toe of the stock as an up/down lever point for the rest of the rifle

canting is up to you. practice and shoot with and without, figure out what works for YOU. most of the guys that cant their guns have much less shoulder real estate than you do

I can't comment on length of buttstock for YOU, but you should not feel too stretched out, but definitely should be actively PULLING the rifle into your body, try the "C clamp" grip on the front end moving between targets, anchored in and pulling it shouldn't matter if you don't have perfect placement; not a fan of NTCH for fast shooting but that's a personal issue

the hypalon on the shoulder straps might be a bit slippery depending on your buttstock (I hate solid plastic), but they should not affect shouldering of the rifle like most thick nylon ones. that is their greatest feature IMO

as stated above, pull the rifle to your face, not drop your eyes to the rifle; faster and more consistent. not worth running a higher mount if you already have one, but something to think about in the future. I run lower 1/3 co-witness personally and it fits well for a "heads up" shooting position for my body type

if you plan to fight in a PC, you need to train in a PC; especially in fast reloads as it's a very different experience from slick; do it from behind cover kneeling, prone, supine, etc as you likely won't be standing up Nice and straight when bullets are flying your way

I'd consider getting different mag pouches or cutting the flaps/covers off the ones shown. Personal pref, but I'm less worried about losing my mags falling down a hill tumbling than I am about having faster access to the mags. If you have to reload your rifle.. you're almost certainly still in a fight

spend extra time practicing grabbing the one from the backside horizontal. unless you carry one on your support side hip I'll bet under stress that is the one you'll be going for first; fast reload mag on the support side hip is like your best friend if you use that. shorter 20 rd mags are easier to keep on the belt without banging into other stuff

bear in mind I'm neither LE or mil. just a guy that watches occasional Youtube videos so take all the above with a healthy dose of salt. advice from the internet is worth exactly what you paid for it

 

[Sogan]

Kinetic Consulting had a “How to shoulder a rifle” video but I can’t find it now. Essentially he puts it outside of the shoulder pocket and more on the actual shoulder itself. This would work with or without body armor and is exactly how I have to shoulder it with body armor on

 

[muggs13]

Practice more, it's different with plates, period.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^ Adapt to it. you will never get as good as not wearing armor.