Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

[Vitorum]

I have a few questions here regarding this topic. First off if I were to purchase the ops-4 side charging upper (which is build for a 5.56x45) could I just swap the bolt and firing pin out and build the rest of the rifle around 5.45?

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5738

Also has anyone else heard about this company and if it reliable or not? They showed off a side charging ar15 carrier which was according to them available in 5.45x39. But when I went to the website I can't even find it.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_364/19764...e_receiver.html

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

I've never understood the fascination with side-charging, especial when so many of the side charging (or so called) uppers I've seen are really nothing more than something welded to the bolt carrier.

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've never understood the fascination with side-charging, especial when so many of the side charging (or so called) uppers I've seen are really nothing more than something welded to the bolt carrier.

</div></div>

Wow that was a big help. Thanks so much for taking the time to tell me that... *Shakes head*

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

To be a charging handle, or side charging, it would not move back and forth with the bolt, but just "Cock" it. nearly all of the AR stuff I have seen is just something stuck on the bolt.

But, even if it were a true side charging upper, what problem does this solve?

 

[Solid_Squirrel]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

Supposedly this can make it easier to manipulate the bolt silently, for hunting; or easier to load a single VLD round, if it's overall length is beyond what will fit in a mag.

I have an AR Performance barrel/bolt, but I haven't completed the build yet, to show groups, or anything.

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To be a charging handle, or side charging, it would not move back and forth with the bolt, but just "Cock" it. nearly all of the AR stuff I have seen is just something stuck on the bolt.

But, even if it were a true side charging upper, what problem does this solve? </div></div>

I don't like having to pull my face away from my optics while cocking the rifle after extracting empty mag and inserting new one.

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supposedly this can make it easier to manipulate the bolt silently, for hunting; or easier to load a single VLD round, if it's overall length is beyond what will fit in a mag. </div></div>

I dont see how a knob sticking out of both sides of the upper, introducing dirt/debris into the upper, will help accomplish anything. I've got a badger tac-latch on nearly all of my AR's and I can rapidly (or quietly) operate the action with my weak hand, even lying prone w/out much sound at all.

This, BTW, is why I hunt with a bolt action anyway.

 

[Solid_Squirrel]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supposedly this can make it easier to manipulate the bolt silently, for hunting; or easier to load a single VLD round, if it's overall length is beyond what will fit in a mag. </div></div>

I dont see how a knob sticking out of both sides of the upper, introducing dirt/debris into the upper, will help accomplish anything. I've got a badger tac-latch on nearly all of my AR's and I can rapidly (or quietly) operate the action with my weak hand, even lying prone w/out much sound at all.

This, BTW, is why I hunt with a bolt action anyway. </div></div>

What you're describing is ambidextrous side-charger. I would say it has different uses (or not), depending on not only whether it's right/left/ambi, but also the shooter's handedness (and application).

I can't say whether I'll find it useful or not, but I'll certainly report what I think about it once my build's finished, and I am able to try it.

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't like having to pull my face away from my optics while cocking the rifle after extracting empty mag and inserting new one. </div></div>

I understand that, but a tactical charging handle latch (I recommend the Badger) will solve this problem.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1387/Product/AR-15-M16-TACTICAL-LATCH

 

[GlockandRoll]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What you're describing is ambidextrous side-charger. I would say it has different uses (or not), depending on not only whether it's right/left/ambi, but also the shooter's handedness (and application).
</div></div>

That's what he asked about.. the LAR OPS-4 he posted is just that.

 

[Solid_Squirrel]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GlockandRoll</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What you're describing is ambidextrous side-charger. I would say it has different uses (or not), depending on not only whether it's right/left/ambi, but also the shooter's handedness (and application).
</div></div>

That's what he asked about.. the LAR OPS-4 he posted is just that.

</div></div>

I understand that, but I just thought it was worth mentioning, since it at least sounds like the uses that a side-charger supposedly have, depend upon the specific configuration, as well as the user's handedness - so the answer to what the point of it is, is kind of nuanced.

In any case, it sounds like they can have real uses, but ones that are highly specialized.

Obviously, a non-reciprocating side-charger is not going to be too useful for single-loading, and closing the bolt silently. But a right-handed shooter with a right-handed reciprocating knob, doesn't gain the ability to manipulate the bolt, without changing position.

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

Look guys no offence but this is not what I was asking. If anyone has info about my previous question concerning the 5.45x39 bolt and firing pin please let me know. If you don't remember please read it again. I say this because people expect a repeat or the original question for no reason. All this discussion about if you like it or not or think it's useful or not is not assisting in the slightest.

 

[Solid_Squirrel]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

Yes (sorry BTW lol). <span style="text-decoration: line-through">I think you need mags too. </span>Looks like you just need a follower change, as was stated in the other thread. You should just email AR Performance to ask any specific questions about their 5.45mm offerings.

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes (sorry BTW lol). <span style="text-decoration: line-through">I think you need mags too. </span>Looks like you just need a follower change, as was stated in the other thread. You should just email AR Performance to ask any specific questions about their 5.45mm offerings. </div></div>

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure about follower. But (I guess I'll just re ask it) Does anyone know if all I need to do when it comes to any 5.56x45 conversion to 5.45x39 if all that you need to do is swap out barrel, buffer, bolt, firing pin, and of course followerin mag? I have sent AR Performance an email. I'm just asking about a 5.56 to 5.45 conversion in general. I guess I should explain a little more. I'm trying to build an AR-15 in 5.45x39 and I would prefer to have the abi OPS-4 side charging upper or the standard setup. So I'm not trying to actually convert calibers with an existing AR-15 just the bolt and firing pin on an existing upper. I hope that helps. I wouldn't ask these questions if I could find any info on the web about it. But I'll check around some more. Thanks. Please let me know if you find anything that will assist me in this matter. Thanks guys.

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

^ Anyone?

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

now I'm also going for a GP setup. Will adams arms rifle length gas piston kit fit my setup thus far with this barrel? Also what kind of buffer setup do I need to run? What about spikes tactical st-t1 heavy buffer and wolff XP buffer spring? Anything else I'm forgetting concerning the upper?

http://www.shop.dezarms.com/product.sc?productId=163&categoryId=30

 

[Solid_Squirrel]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

The gas system length is correct (rifle=rifle). The Adam Arms kit can be had with both .625" and .750" gas blocks - you need the .750" gas block version, for the barrel you've linked to. Other than that, you need a forearm/handguard that provides sufficient clearance for the GP conversion.

I'm not gonna say I know there's nothing else, because I don't, but I'm sure someone would say, if there is.

Personally I just emailed the guy from Slash's Heavy Buffers, and told him about my setup, and asked what he thought I should use. I figure he lives and breathes buffers, so...

(I went with his Tungsten HSS buffer @6.5 oz., for a .223 Wylde, but the carrier I'm using is a little heavier than stock)

Max pressures:
5.45x39
380.00 MPa (55,114 psi)

.223 Remington
(380 MPa)55,000 psi

5.56x45
430.00 MPa (62,366 psi)

 

[Vitorum]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Solid_Squirrel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The gas system length is correct (rifle=rifle). The Adam Arms kit can be had with both .625" and .750" gas blocks - you need the .750" gas block version, for the barrel you've linked to. Other than that, you need a forearm/handguard that provides sufficient clearance for the GP conversion.

I'm not gonna say I know there's nothing else, because I don't, but I'm sure someone would say, if there is.

Personally I just emailed the guy from Slash's Heavy Buffers, and told him about my setup, and asked what he thought I should use. I figure he lives and breathes buffers, so...

(I went with his Tungsten HSS buffer @6.5 oz., for a .223 Wylde, but the carrier I'm using is a little heavier than stock)

Max pressures:
5.45x39
380.00 MPa (55,114 psi)

.223 Remington
(380 MPa)55,000 psi

5.56x45
430.00 MPa (62,366 psi)

</div></div>

I'm going with a samson evo forend, and I actually was originally considering contacting him about the buffers but didn't for some stupid reason lol. Good suggestion as well. Thanks.

btw can I use the Samson 9-ex on my setup or do I need a longer hand guard?

http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html/product/Evolution-9EX.html

 

[WARDOG]

Re: Side charing Upper for 5.45x39 AR-15

It's amazing how far off-topic members can get by offering their unsolicited opinions.
I do not have the answer you seek, but I would look for the answer at AR15.com.
I am <span style="font-style: italic">POSITIVE</span> a member over there knows everything there is to know about your conversion. So many of the AR plinkers have gone to the 5.45x39 because you can get a 1000 case, PLUS a Russian mail order bride for $170!