Sierra 177 smk?

[Mooseknuckles]

Looks like another new 30 cal bullet from Sierra. 177 smk.

Sierra MatchKing Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 177 Grain Hollow Point

Sierra MatchKing bullets have very thin jackets and are held to exacting tolerances in diameter and weight. These Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets have a...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[308pirate]

Don't see it anywhere in Sierra's website

 

[Bradv86]

A few more details would be nice, nothing on Sierra's site. Hope it doesnt go down the way of the 169...

 

[918v]

I’m waiting for the 222gr SMK

 

[Dave62677]

it looks a bit longer length.

 

[Belt fed]

A few more details would be nice, nothing on Sierra's site. Hope it doesnt go down the way of the 169...

What's wrong with the 169?

 

[6.5SH]

What's wrong with the 169?

Little info, limited availability and many canceled orders.

 

[Belt fed]

Oh yeah, that. My order with Sierra got canceled, not cool. Doesn't make it a bad bullet.
I think pretty much everything is limited availability right now though, not just 169's.

 

[Bradv86]

Oh yeah, that. My order with Sierra got canceled, not cool. Doesn't make it a bad bullet.
I think pretty much everything is limited availability right now though, not just 169's.

Yeah, nothing against the bullet itself based on the numbers. Just wanted to actually get my order in my hands instead of a cancellation a month later after being told they were just waiting on labels...

 

[jzerfoss]

Still nothing on this bullet?

 

[Mooseknuckles]

Haven’t herd or seen anything from Sierra.

 

[NukeMMC]

Just ordered 2 boxes from Midway.

Sierra MatchKing Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 177 Grain Hollow Point

Sierra MatchKing bullets have very thin jackets and are held to exacting tolerances in diameter and weight. These Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets have a...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Mooseknuckles]

Just ordered 2 boxes from Midway.

Sierra MatchKing Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 177 Grain Hollow Point

Sierra MatchKing bullets have very thin jackets and are held to exacting tolerances in diameter and weight. These Hollow Point Boat Tail bullets have a...

www.midwayusa.com

When you get some load data on them let us know. Curious on how much better these are then the 175 smk.

 

[cruze5]

very cool Sierra. still eager to load my 169 i received from MidwayUSA

 

[NukeMMC]

My wife ordered 2 more boxes for me

Based on the 169SMK performance vs the 168TMK, I would guess the bc for the 177 to be around .540, since the 175TMK is .545 and the 175SMK is .505.
I emailed Sierra tech support for a bc.

 

[6.5 GUY]

My wife ordered 2 more boxes for me

Based on the 169SMK performance vs the 168TMK, I would guess the bc for the 177 to be around .540, since the 175TMK is .545 and the 175SMK is .505.
I emailed Sierra tech support for a bc.

Good to hear you emailed them....... I started to wonder why nothing from Sierra, even in their "News" section about it, and what's going on? Info would be nice.

 

[sjoliat]

You would think some of these companies have dragged their marketing and customer service people down to the factory floor and put them to work, based on the lack of communication. A short while back there was a thread about Alliant releasing a temperature stable version of RL15, but go to their website and nothing to be found. Similar with Sierra - if you just look at their site SMK 169 and 177 do not exist. I'm looking forward to seeing the data from them as well...

 

[Mooseknuckles]

If I didn’t have 1k 175 smk’s sitting around I would buy up some of them to test out.
it is frustrating when a company releases a new product with no information.

 

[NukeMMC]

I called Sierra and the tech I talked to said they have VERY little info on them and what he did have was to use load data for the 175 SMK/TMK and its G1 b.c. is .545, so same as the 175TMK. They didn't have any data on a multi-velocity b.c. profile for it yet.

 

[6.5 GUY]

I wonder why so little info is out there from Sierra, and whether or not these will cause a phase out of the TMK.... Which for me I'm not a fan of.

 

[NukeMMC]

I think the TMK is a great bullet but I wonder if the margin is better on the 2-piece (jacket & slug) than the 3 piece. There must be 3 added steps in the manufacturing process on the TMK (cut jacket, drill and insert tip).
Seems a good business deciaion if they can get an equal bc bullet for less cost, it's a win for them, a no-lose for us.

 

[NukeMMC]

Got 2 boxes yesterday. I comparison-measured 10 against 10 of the 175SMK, 169SMK and 168SMK:
177SMK:

	Base To Ogive​	Tip To Boattail​	OAL​	Bearing Length​	Weight​
Avg	0.6879​	1.1697​	1.3343​	0.5233​	177.1​
Sd	0.0003​	0.0022​	0.0025​	0.0009​	0.0943​

175SMK:

Avg	0.6600​	1.0782​	1.2403​	0.4979​	174.8​
Sd	0.0009​	0.0018​	0.0021​	0.0014​	0.1160​

169SMK:

Avg	0.6575​	1.1454​	1.3079​	0.495​	169.0​
Sd	0.0007​	0.0018​	0.0014​	0.0011​	0.0516​

168SMK:

Avg	0.6117​	1.0542​	1.1894​	0.4765​	167.9​
Sd	0.0011​	0.0017​	0.0019​	0.0008​	0.0816​

Here is a visual comparison:

Top to bottom, 177-175-169-168:

 

[glocker17]

Got a couple of boxes last week, them seem to shoot just like the 175s. I don't think there will be much of a BC gain from just closing the nose. 169 is probably a better choice.

 

[NukeMMC]

My 2nd set of 2 boxes came in today. Different lot. 0.010" shorter OAL, BTO and Bearing length. Also 0.2gr less weight.
I'll be loading some up to do an OCW and try a few at 700+. Need to do the same with the 169s.

 

[Belt fed]

Anybody have any opinion of these yet? Shooting them, stretching them out to distance?
Real world opinions, other than being not available, and no published information - we all know that part!

 

[lte82]

My 2nd set of 2 boxes came in today. Different lot. 0.010" shorter OAL, BTO and Bearing length. Also 0.2gr less weight.
I'll be loading some up to do an OCW and try a few at 700+. Need to do the same with the 169s.

Have you figured out a good G7 for this one yet?

 

[RTH1800]

I’ll post my likely unpopular first thought.

I’m a 50 year plus user of Sierra bullets. I will continue to use the many thousands I have on hand and have data for.

Today I would not consider getting new data for a new long range bullet that did not come from a Berger box.

 

[jLorenzo]

a 157gr would be cool

 

[lte82]

I’ll post my likely unpopular first thought.

I’m a 50 year plus user of Sierra bullets. I will continue to use the many thousands I have on hand and have data for.

Today I would not consider getting new data for a new long range bullet that did not come from a Berger box.

I tend to agree myself, but the 169 smk .30 cal is phenomenal. That’s about the only reason I’d consider the 177…

 

[Doom]

FYI,

Sierra put the 177 out in early 2021 as I recall on the website and shipped some to a couple of retailers including Midway. Shortly thereafter they pulled it from their website. Then the 169 came out. Probably made more sense.

 

[NukeMMC]

169 was out 2-3 months ahead of the 177.

 

[357Max]

Reviving an old thread. Looks like the 177 SMK are about to be in stock @ Midway.
They currently have the 169's in stock (ordered 500).

Did anyone ever put any of the 177's down range??

Still isn't jack squat on Sierra's website.

 

[Doom]

Actually showed up on the Sierra web site and that was before the 169 ever showed up anywhere but was taken down quickly. My guess is Sierra was looking to upgrade the BC of the Matchkings but the 168 was the bullet that most needed help. The 168 has trans sonic instability and taking this bullet to 169 made more marketing sense.

 

[Jonathan Swift]

Larry has the 169's if you're willing to pay Larry's markup.

 

[M4orturnate]

A few more details would be nice, nothing on Sierra's site. Hope it doesnt go down the way of the 169...

Whats goi g on with the 169? Ive been looking for them. Have 500 or so left. Its a good bullet

 

[straightshooter1]

Whats goi g on with the 169? Ive been looking for them. Have 500 or so left. Its a good bullet

Sierra MatchKing Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 169 Grain Hollow Point

This Sierra MatchKing bullet was designed with one thing in mind, and that was to shoot 1000 yards in a 308 Winchester. To accomplish that, Sierra added...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[M4orturnate]

Sierra MatchKing Bullets 30 Cal (308 Diameter) 169 Grain Hollow Point

This Sierra MatchKing bullet was designed with one thing in mind, and that was to shoot 1000 yards in a 308 Winchester. To accomplish that, Sierra added...

www.midwayusa.com

Thanks. Gave up looking a month or so ago. Gonna grab some.

 

[NukeMMC]

Pretty sure @padom shot some 177s. I ran a few. Act about the same as the 175TMK.

 

[NukeMMC]

Word of warning ... if you want to run them in a gas gun, the 169 is better. The 177 ends up limited by mag length.

 

[Baddog 0302]

I called Sierra and the tech I talked to said they have VERY little info on them and what he did have was to use load data for the 175 SMK/TMK and its G1 b.c. is .545, so same as the 175TMK. They didn't have any data on a multi-velocity b.c. profile for it yet.

Isn't Sierra the Co. with the 100 or 200 yd. under roof ie; in their building range ? So my question to them is why are you releasing a new product , this 177 SMK without any info or data being available ?

 

[Doom]

In all honesty, I think Sierra had made a test run on these bullets and had a bunch sitting around in the middle of the pandemic and bullet shortage and released them. There was no announcement and they simply showed up online, I believe at Midway. I checked the website and they were listed with data for BC, 3 segment and close to the TMK as I recall. Short time later they were gone. From what I have been able discern from others the 169/177 are closed tip and very similar or equal to the TMK profiles. This is consistent with the similar/equal BC. My thinking is the bullet is more of a hybrid ogive similar to the 168 Berger Hybrid.

 

[357Max]

In all honesty, I think Sierra had made a test run on these bullets and had a bunch sitting around in the middle of the pandemic and bullet shortage and released them. There was no announcement and they simply showed up online, I believe at Midway. I checked the website and they were listed with data for BC, 3 segment and close to the TMK as I recall. Short time later they were gone. From what I have been able discern from others the 169/177 are closed tip and very similar or equal to the TMK profiles. This is consistent with the similar/equal BC. My thinking is the bullet is more of a hybrid ogive similar to the 168 Berger Hybrid.

The new 169smk compared to the 168tmk base to ogive is within .001 @ .643-.645 that is where the similarities end. The TMk is about .070 longer oal & the boatail is different. For ref. berger hyb 168 base to ogive is .586
Edit: confirmed the new 169smk does have the tip reduction treatment. Assumng the 177’s will also.

I’m hopeing the new 169’s will be jump tollerant while not requiring the extreme jumps of the TMK in AR10 mag limits.
The TMK’s did not shoot well for me in my DPMS at thise loong jumps.

Here is a visual reference.
Left to right. Speer Impact 172, Berger 168 OTM, Sierra 168TMK, New 169smk, & std 168smk.

 

[straightshooter1]

The new 169smk compared to the 168tmk base to ogive is within .001 @ .643-.645 that is where the similarities end. The TMk is about .070 longer oal & the boatail is different. For ref. berger hyb 168 base to ogive is .586
Edit: confirmed the new 169smk does have the tip reduction treatment. Assumng the 177’s will also.

I’m hopeing the new 169’s will be jump tollerant while not requiring the extreme jumps of the TMK in AR10 mag limits.
The TMK’s did not shoot well for me in my DPMS at thise loong jumps.

I struggled with the TMK's as well, but eventually found a load that worked well. I don't use them anymore because of that.

The 169 are indeed pretty jump tolerant and I found it pretty easy to find a good load and tune it. It shoot really well for me. The 169's bearing surface slightly shorter than the 168's, but have a longer boat tail and ogive. Using my Sinclair comparator, I get a difference in BTO of .012. But, that difference can vary substantially between lots. I've had 168 SMK's with a BTO difference of .033 between lots. Given how close their bearing surfaces are, the 169's should work just fine in AR's.

BTO:
169 SMK - .579
168 SMK - .562

Bearing Surface:
169 SMK - .460
168 SMK - .464

As you can see, you're comparator produces vary different measurements.

YMMV

 

[357Max]

I struggled with the TMK's as well, but eventually found a load that worked well. I don't use them anymore because of that.

The 169 are indeed pretty jump tolerant and I found it pretty easy to find a good load and tune it. It shoot really well for me. The 169's bearing surface slightly shorter than the 168's, but have a longer boat tail and ogive. Using my Sinclair comparator, I get a difference in BTO of .012. But, that difference can vary substantially between lots. I've had 168's with a BTO difference of .033 between lots. Given how close their bearing surfaces are, the 169's should work just fine in AR's.

BTO:
169 SMK - .579
168 SMK - .562

Bearing Surface:
169 SMK - .460
168 SMK - .464

As you can see, you're comparator produces vary different measurements.

YMMV

I know comparators can vary, but damn that's a lot. That's why I also like to always include OAL with load data.

Here is my Hornady setup with the 169 SMK.
Edit: I'm going to take a look at the Sinclair Comparator.

 

[NukeMMC]

The new 169smk compared to the 168tmk base to ogive is within .001 @ .643-.645 that is where the similarities end. The TMk is about .070 longer oal & the boatail is different. For ref. berger hyb 168 base to ogive is .586
Edit: confirmed the new 169smk does have the tip reduction treatment. Assumng the 177’s will also.

I’m hopeing the new 169’s will be jump tollerant while not requiring the extreme jumps of the TMK in AR10 mag limits.
The TMK’s did not shoot well for me in my DPMS at thise loong jumps.

Here is a visual reference.
Left to right. Speer Impact 172, Berger 168 OTM, Sierra 168TMK, New 169smk, & std 168smk.
View attachment 7953408View attachment 7953409View attachment 7953410

Take a look at my post #22 above for a visual of the 177 and 169 in comparison to the 175/168s. Yes, both the 169 and 177 have meplats that are spun or swaged nearly closed.

 

[padom]

Pretty sure @padom shot some 177s. I ran a few. Act about the same as the 175TMK.

I actually havent! I tested the 169's you gave me (shot phenomenal)!! But I don't have any 177's but shit I'll have to find some and put some down my 26" Bartlein!!

 

[357Max]

Take a look at my post #22 above for a visual of the 177 and 169 in comparison to the 175/168s. Yes, both the 169 and 177 have meplats that are spun or swaged nearly closed.

I noticed the new lot of 500 169’s I just got are .010 shorter base to ogive than what’s in your chart in post #22?

You also noted your second box of 177’s were .010 shorter.

Did you use a Hornady comparator?
It seems the Sinclair measures about .070 shorter than Hornady based on straight Shooters numbers. I know it’s a comparator, not a measurement but it’d be a hell of a lot easier comparing load data if all comparators used the same bore size for ogive.

Thanks

 

[sinister]

Sierra may be trying to play fu&ky math trying to get a Match King to shoot to 1,000 out of a 20-inch SR-25/AR-10 for the Camp Perry guys.

About 40 years ago they had a 180 Match King that an M14 could keep supersonic to 1,000 yards for the Interservice Championships and the National Matches. I think that's the boat-tail they still use on the 190 and the 180 Game King. They changed the boat-tail to the shorter angle used on the 168 Match King and turned it into a turd.

In a 20-inch .mil rifle the Berger 185 Juggernaut is eating Sierra's lunch.

The 177 may be Sierra trying to nail the "Old Coke" performance in service and sniper rifles.

Going from a thick-jacketed jump-tolerant bullet to a thin-jacket (like older Noslers and JLKs with J4 jackets) may risk bullet blow-up.

 

[NukeMMC]

About 40 years ago they had a 180 Match King that an M14 could keep supersonic to 1,000 yards for the Interservice Championships and the National Matches. I think that's the boat-tail they still use on the 190 and the 180 Game King. They changed the boat-tail to the shorter angle used on the 168 Match King and turned it into a turd.

I remember during the 91 Interservice Rifle Matches watching the AMU 180s keyhole the paper at 1000. I guess the oppressive July humidity at Quantico had those 180s going transonic a bit early.
I believe the 168 "International" bullet, as it was originally called, was made more for the 300m Free rifle competition that was rampant in Europe in the late 50s and 60s. It did that quite well.

 

[NukeMMC]

I actually havent! I tested the 169's you gave me (shot phenomenal)!! But I don't have any 177's but shit I'll have to find some and put some down my 26" Bartlein!!

I can bring you a couple hundred to mess with. I am still going to Morgantown and Paoli here and there. I'll be in Morgantown today, in fact.