Hunting & Fishing sierra gameking

[andydrose72]

This is not another what bullet to use thread. I shoot a 30-06 and use the 150 grain sierra gamekings. My father shoots them as well. We live in Montana and hunt a lot of mule deer. This year on both of our bucks the bullet exploded on the shoulderblade and required some tracking and followup shots. Did sierra change something or is the common? I have used these bullets for years with no problems. Maybe I have just yet to hit a shoulderblade until this year.

 

[FN in MT]

GK are standard old cup and core slugs. Simply a lead slug swaged into a drawn copper cup. They are far from tough. Then again I know a few hunters who used the 300 gr, .375" GK's over in Africa. I used them on elk for years. The jacket always squirted out and the cup and core separated...but you always had a dead elk. I know a hunter who shot CAPE BUFFALO with the 300's! Always killed them on heart/lung shots.

I had a thirty caliber 150 GK blow up on the shoulder blade of an antelope out by Miles City many years back. I transitioned to Nosler partitions and never looked back.

I'd suggest going to the 165 gr GK's to my way of thinking the 150's are lighter than optimal. Then again...so much of this is personal belief. Maybe 150's ARE rigth and I'm wrong headed?

FN in MT

 

[andydrose72]

Well my personal beliefs now is that they are too light given what I saw this year, probably just gonna work up a load with the 180 gamekings. I believe I had this happen a few years ago but never could find the deer so I couldn't say for sure. Hopefully it doesn't happen again but like anything, if you hunt long enough it is bound to happen.

 

[Rhyno]

I've seen it happen, also had it happen on Core-lokts and other bullets.

Anything mechanical in nature can and will fail.

 

[still_N_29palms]

I changed to solid copper last couple of years, I personal experience on southern whitetail is these bullets kill more efficiently with a cleaner wound channel. Reason I changed I noticed the same disintegration issue, especially in 50 yards or less shots. I like the barns TSX rounds. I love them for hunting, but they are a little expensive.

 

[judgedelta]

I use the 165 gameking in my '06 and also in .308 loads. Usually have a exit hole, blood trail Ray Charles could follow. I prefer the hollow point for dead right there, massive trauma, but the southern whitetail isn't as a rule as big as a big mule deer. Shots down here are usually not more than 200 yds, so I don't load very hot. Never had a bullet blow up...

 

[FN in MT]

Well my personal beliefs now is that they are too light given what I saw this year, probably just gonna work up a load with the 180 gamekings. I believe I had this happen a few years ago but never could find the deer so I couldn't say for sure. Hopefully it doesn't happen again but like anything, if you hunt long enough it is bound to happen.

It's not so much an issue of WEIGHT as it is of CONSTRUCTION. I like premium bullets. They fail far less than standard slugs. Whether they are Partitions, Barnes solid coppers, or some sort of bonded design. They simply seem to work better and fail less.

In 2000 I went to South Africa to hunt plains game. M y buddy who is notoriously cheap went along and used standard 140 gr Hornady's in his .270 Weatherby. On animals at close range, the impact velocity was too high and his bullets came apart half the time. He lost a very nice kudu with a shoulder shot. I think had he used a partition or Barnes...he would have been OK. In RSA one pays the trophy fee on an animal if wounded and lost. His cheap bullets cost him half a days hunting as well as the $800 trophy fee for an animal he never found until days later. That trip reinforced my belief that premium slugs are cheap insurance on larger/tougher game.

 

[coldboremiracle]

This year on both of our bucks the bullet exploded on the shoulderblade and required some tracking and followup shots.

WHAAAAT???? The GK? The bullet that every naysayer tells me I should be shooting instead of those unethical Match bullets? LOL

As mentioned, any bullet can and will fail eventually. Take it with a grain of salt, and continue on. Personally I avoid shoulder shots when I can, mostly to avoid meat damage. But This may be a good reason to continue practicing that theory.

 

[andydrose72]

Weight is not everything but I believe sectional density may help quite a bit without have to jump to a much more expensive bullet.

 

[Chopperguy]

I use the 165 GK in my 30-06 and have downed many deer with it.

My buddy used the same bullet in his 308 in Africa for plains game with no issues.

Don't think I'll take mine to Africa, but they are my go to deer round in the 165.

 

[MLC]

I shot a doe with a 308/ 165 (the hollowpoint not softpoint and) head on, just to one side of the neck.
It went in, wrecked all her plumbing and had 3 exit wounds out the ribs and abdomen.
Fragile!

 

[still_N_29palms]

Yes whitetail is not the rule as they are much smaller than a mule, but, the issue was taking the shoulder shot. This shot is not preferred on any game, however, I was trying (badly) to point out that the Copper generally retains more bullet weight, mushrooms wonderfully, large wound and trauma channel, giving a cleaner more ethical kill, and no issue with 150grain even on a mule deer. Which I do believe he asked. I used to be against the solid copper till I had the same problem of slug failure on small whitetail. In a couple of my bolt guns I have increased accuracy with factory Barns ammo in others decreased but not enough to worry at anything less than 200 yards. It does not matter weather or not it was a bad bonding issue during the manufacturing, it is still sucks when it happens. Though it is a possible failure with any round, limiting or reducing the possibility is the intent here. I was just saying it seems less likely IMO to happen with a solid copper fully separating or disintegrating on a shoulder bone impact, weather or not it is a light, medium, or thick skinned game.

Good hunting,
Gene

 

[Rhyno]

My issue with monolithic bullets is expansion.

Everyone who makes them shows us that expansion is minimal starting very soon 2300 fps. Or faster.

So if your not shooting a magnum rifle your kind of screwed. Out of my one deer stand, most of my shots are 200+ yards Hornady Gmx superformance at that distance is already close to that minimal expansion zone.

Isn't that why people don't recommend match ammo? Because they're not designed to expand, but the monolithic bullets won't expand at low speed, and buy low speed they mean around 2000 fps.

 

[hlee]

My issue with monolithic bullets is expansion.

Everyone who makes them shows us that expansion is minimal starting very soon 2300 fps. Or faster.

So if your not shooting a magnum rifle your kind of screwed. Out of my one deer stand, most of my shots are 200+ yards Hornady Gmx superformance at that distance is already close to that minimal expansion zone.

Isn't that why people don't recommend match ammo? Because they're not designed to expand, but the monolithic bullets won't expand at low speed, and buy low speed they mean around 2000 fps.

Check out "How Quickly does your bullet expand?..."

X-citing Facts | Barnes Bullets

- Snapshot: .050 inch aluminum plate shows bullet expansion after penetrating a one-inch thickness of ballistic gelatin.
- Impact velocity was approximately 2000 fps, simulating a 500-plus-yard bullet strike from a .300 magnum rifle.

I've never had a problem with the Barnes TSX bullet out of my 270 not expanding (and they shoot great too). But, I shoot Amaxes out of my 308 because they are substantially more precise.

I think the "problem" with match ammunition is that the bullets tend not to expand predictably. One bullet may "pencil through" and the next may "blow up on the shoulder." However, most reports of stellar performance of one bullet and sub par performance of another are anecdotal, at best, as distance/animal/shot placement/caliber/muzzle velocity/etc are not well controlled for in the analysis. If one has had good success with bullet "X," that success does not diminish another person's poor results with the same bullet. Conversely, one person's lack of success does not diminish a general good performance record of a bullet.

Shot placement is king- and the most poorly controlled variable in any discussion of bullet performance. I cannot decide whether I would rank bullet construction or caliber as #2, because the two are interrelated.

A Nosler Partition from a 300 win mag in the guts is going to produce a long day of tracking- at best. A 223 Vmax behind the ear will produce a DRT response.

 

[79jeepcj5]

I've been loading 180gr GK's for close to 20 years for my 30-06. Haven't lost a deer yet, but I take heart/lung shots, not shoulder shots. They may go a little ways, but there's a good blood trail. I don't remember ever having one that didn't exit, so I can't vouch on the expansion other than mangled innards. Keep in mind, I'm talking about the deer I made GOOD shots on. Even the ones that weren't so good ended up in the freezer. IMO 180 GK's and IMR 4350 are your friend.

 

[andydrose72]

79jeep that is exactly the route I am looking at going. And for clarification I do not intentionally take shoulder shots, it just happens sometimes in the coulie country around Montana with very long shots and odd shot angles.

 

[coldboremiracle]

The more I hear and think about this, the more I think it was just a fluke. Carry on.