Siete vs Delta 5 Pro vs AT-X

[Deleted member 211209]

Congrats to your brother?

I would say so. Dominating a Marine weapons instructor is a pretty big deal for us. Unfortunate for the Marines that he trained.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

As long as the gun is unmodified, production class. I mean, the rules are posted in this thread.

Do they have an open class? Their production class has zero unmodified rifles.

 

[spife7980]

 

[Tokay444]

Do they have an open class? Their production class has zero unmodified rifles.

Are you missing a chromosome? You can’t shoot a modified gun in production. It has to be $3000 or less, and be as delivered from the manufacturer. THE RULES ARE IN THIS THREAD.

 

[HPIguy]

Are you missing a chromosome? You can’t shoot a modified gun in production. It has to be $3000 or less, and be as delivered from the manufacturer. THE RULES ARE IN THIS THREAD.

It's ether that, or epic trolling. He'd probably argue that a Singer DLS isn't a Porsche either.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

You are good for a laugh at least even though you have no idea what you are talking about. Lol

I never said that I was an expert. If you want comedy and to prove my lack of knowledge. Just ask me some basic questions and I will answer them honestly. That way, you will have plenty material to laugh at me. This forum is in dire need of some honesty, so I will sacrifice myself.

 

[Tokay444]

We haven’t stopped laughing since you started posting.

 

[DocRDS]

They are in the same place they were when you shot that target at 20 yards. That is why I will be making an actual video for you jackasses. Since you said that your gun is stock, how about you explain what that means?

Real simple jackass.

I went into a store. In Oregon. I said, these buys at sniper country told me to get one of dem dere Remington VSS cuase it be good for snipering.

We exchanged cold hard cash.

THEN it sat in my safe for about 15 years while i had a life. Then one day I said, "You know i outta like go shoot or sumtin" So I bought a scope, screwed it on and shot it. WOW I HIT THE TARGET!!! I SUCK ASS

So I read and I read and I practiced and I practiced and I took that same damn rifle to the range one day to do some load testing cause I am a cheap whore who can't stand to pay for expensive ammo and shot that group with 178 Hornady ELD and 41.5 grains of IMr 4064.

I also cleaned the rifle once or twice.

Same config
Same lawyer ass trigger
Same stock--its exactly the same as I bought it except knicks and scratchs from all the years of like "moving around and then shooting the damn thing". I didn't even paint it.

Its no different that a Badrock SouthFork (Defiant Action, whatever barrel they use, whatever trigger they use)
or an AT-X
or an AXSM
or a GAP (ok well GAP uses defiant actions, but my remingting had an HS-precision stock as bought--do i need to whip out the ol 30-30 and wood stock to club you with the point of these shenanigans?

The markings on the side say remington and apart from scope rings nothing has been added or subtracted.

"Stock" doesn't mean cheap--it means as configured from the manufacturer. You haven't got a CLUE what a stock gun looks like in 2023. There are $400 stock guns and there are $4000 stock guns and it makes not a fucking hill of beans difference which one you use because the ASSHOLE SHOOTING THE GUN is the important part. That's why we all think "Production" class is a joke--a STOCK RIFLE IS A FUCKING NICE RIFLE THESE DAYS.

I can drive to work in a kia. I drive a BMW cause I hate signaling and your mom needs room in the back seat when I pick her up on the corner.

 

[0724/1030]

 

[Tokay444]

I have the Daniel Defense Delta 5 Pro 6.5 CM and love it. It shot under .5 out of the box and I have gotten groups down to .38. I easily bang plates out to 1200 yards. All with factory ammo and another plus is no barrel brake in required. For the price I don't think you can beat it .

Ew. For the price, you absolutely can beat it.
You can beat it for a lot less with a Tikka actually.

 

[Huskydriver]

See. That is why you are getting hammered.

 

[Downtown]

View attachment 8206249

This has occurred to me. We have some real jokers on this site and it's quite possible one of them just created this character out of boredom. Been a slow few days here and maybe deersniper (or one of his many other names) just decided to liven things up.

 

[msgriff]

This has occurred to me. We have some real jokers on this site and it's quite possible one of them just created this character out of boredom. Been a slow few days here and maybe deersniper (or one of his many other names) just decided to liven things up.

 

[Namekagon]

Do they have an open class? Their production class has zero unmodified rifles.

Question….

When you buy a Chevy car, did Chevy make every part in that car? Pretty sure companies like AC Delco, Johnson Controls, Bose, all sell parts to Chevy that they use to build a car that EVERYONE would recognize as being completely “stock”.

So if GAP buys triggers from TriggerTech ( or whoever, I don’t even know who they use) that does not make the GAP rifle “custom”.

 

[Namekagon]

When Dodge drops a Cummins diesel into one of its trucks, does that make it a “custom”?

 

[Tokay444]

This has occurred to me. We have some real jokers on this site and it's quite possible one of them just created this character out of boredom. Been a slow few days here and maybe deersniper (or one of his many other names) just decided to liven things up.

It would explain the adoration for such a shit gun.

 

[Rob01]

I never said that I was an expert. If you want comedy and to prove my lack of knowledge. Just ask me some basic questions and I will answer them honestly. That way, you will have plenty material to laugh at me. This forum is in dire need of some honesty, so I will sacrifice myself.

Not trying to laugh at you but you are just making it so easy with your infatuation with what is "stock" and what is "production" and what is "custom". If you would do as you are telling others to do and learn from what people are posting then you would be better off and more knowledgeable.

 

[Tokay444]

When Dodge drops a Cummins diesel into one of its trucks, does that make it a “custom”?

Depends. Does it have a, “Custom” badge?

 

[PRDRIVER]

I've owned lots of bolt action rifles. As a dealer, I've been able to handle, shoot, and own a number of different brands, builds actions, etc.

AI is no doubt priced at a premium compared to many other offerings. It certainly isn't for everyone. It's price alone will keep some shooters at bay, it's heavy bolt lift will keep others away, it's very limited aftermarket support for chassis will keep others away, and it's extremely limited trigger options will again keep some people from owning one. Also, AI does not offer a .223 or Magnum bolt face for the AT-X so you are stuck with calibers that share the .308 bolt face.

That said, the action is built like a tank. It's designed to keep running when it gets dirty. (I've seen a number of custom builds go down over the years at matches when the actions wouldn't shut from too much dirt/moon dust or the triggers went down). The AI AX I owned just shot. At one match I watched squad mates not be able to close their bolts on the clock due to the tight tolerances of their actions and the amount of dirt that was blowing into their actions. I was curious how my AI would run and and didn't clean or cover the action the entire match. Zero hiccups, zero trigger issues, 100% reliable.

AI builds a sniper rifle. The ATX is a sniper rifle in AI's version of a comp chassis with a comp trigger. The gun runs awesome. The action is smooth. Barrels swaps are so easy. A 4mm bit and 49 in lb torque limiter are all that's needed to swap barrels. My AI rifles always have gone back to recorded zeros when swapping barrels. That's great if you want to swap barrels and don't want to keep a torque wrench, barrel vice, and action wrench on hand.

The DD and Larue rifles really don't compare to the AT-X.

If you don't mind a heavy bolt lift and have a wallet that allows for a $5k rifle, the AI is one heck of a rifle.

If you're buying NF ATACR, ZCO, and TT Optics, a one to two grand extra on the rifle really becomes a non issue for most. AI's also hold their value a fair amount better than most custom built rifles.

 

[PRDRIVER]

As for the factory vs open conversation, it really depends on the league you are looking at competing in. Some have monetary limits on top of a completely stock gun to run in their production classes, some allow very slight modifications, other allow zero modifications from factory to stay in a production class. Others like the IPRF do not have dollar limits on production class rifles.

Unless you are already a competitor and know the class you are wanting to shoot, custom vs production really doesn't matter. Buy what works best for you and if you want to compete, shoot in whatever class your rifle qualifies you for.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Not trying to laugh at you but you are just making it so easy with your infatuation with what is "stock" and what is "production" and what is "custom". If you would do as you are telling others to do and learn from what people are posting then you would be better off and more knowledgeable.

I agree with you 100%. The problem is that nobody on here knows. Somebody told me yesterday that there were many ways to define stock. The folks on here are infatuated with the PRS. They can't understand that outside the PRS, stock, and production are the same.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Question….

When you buy a Chevy car, did Chevy make every part in that car? Pretty sure companies like AC Delco, Johnson Controls, Bose, all sell parts to Chevy that they use to build a car that EVERYONE would recognize as being completely “stock”.

So if GAP buys triggers from TriggerTech ( or whoever, I don’t even know who they use) that does not make the GAP rifle “custom”.

Let's stick with guns. Is my Glock 19 custom? I haven't changed anything on it since I have had it. Made in Austria.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

This has occurred to me. We have some real jokers on this site and it's quite possible one of them just created this character out of boredom. Been a slow few days here and maybe deersniper (or one of his many other names) just decided to liven things up.

You have a lot of liars on here as well. Nobody wants to open themselves up for criticism. If you guys are truly professional shooters, why would you not help someone who is asking for help? It's like a bunch of 13-year-old girls on here. All I am doing is exposing the type of people you are.

 

[Rob01]

You have a lot of liars on here as well. Nobody wants to open themselves up for criticism. If you guys are truly professional shooters, why would you not help someone who is asking for help? It's like a bunch of 13-year-old girls on here. All I am doing is exposing the type of people you are.

You are fucking joking right? I tried to help with links and definitions and all you did was talk it down. Now you are being very hypocritical.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Are you missing a chromosome? You can’t shoot a modified gun in production. It has to be $3000 or less, and be as delivered from the manufacturer. THE RULES ARE IN THIS THREAD.

Define modified. What if GAP gave me a 50% Veterans discount and you had to pay the full price on identical guns? Let's also assume that our guns are fully competition ready. Would I be able to spend 1500 dollars more on my gun, and wouldn't that give me an unfair advantage?

 

[Deleted member 211209]

You are fucking joking right? I tried to help with links and definitions and all you did was talk it down. Now you are being very hypocritical.

Really man. Go back to the beginning of this thread and maybe you will understand.

 

[Rob01]

Really man. Go back to the beginning of this thread and maybe you will understand.

Yeah really. How about you go back and read as the questions you asked above were answered in the post on production rules.

 

[Tokay444]

Define modified. What if GAP gave me a 50% Veterans discount and you had to pay the full price on identical guns? Let's also assume that our guns are fully competition ready. Would I be able to spend 1500 dollars more on my gun, and wouldn't that give me an unfair advantage?

What?
Your discount is irrelevant. The rule is $3000 MSRP.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

We haven’t stopped laughing since you started posting.

Good. Laughing, Crying, and Thinking are things that make up a good day. Too bad you are only capable of laughing. The only reason these pros keep you around is because you suck their asses.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Yeah really. How about you go back and read as the questions you asked above were answered in the post on production rules.

Good Lord. I am not asking what the rules are for a PRS production rifle. I am advocating for the PRS to create a purely stock rifle class. Would those rifles compete in an open class that they already have, would they compete in the production class, or would they have to create a separate class? A good example would be if I showed up with a Winchester model 70 chambered in .308 and every single thing on the gun was manufactured by Winchester. I have no scope, bipod, and I paid less than 3k for it. Which class or classes would my gun qualify to compete in? Here is a bonus. If you can answer this for me, I will leave this forum and never come back. Just keep in mind that I have heard enough about their fucked up rules. Simply answer which classes and I will apologize to everyone and I will leave. That is a promise.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

What?
Your discount is irrelevant. The rule is $3000 MSRP.

It would be like me having a gun worth at least 4500 compared to your 3000$ gun. How is that irrelevant?

 

[Rob01]

Good Lord. I am not asking what the rules are for a PRS production rifle. I am advocating for the PRS to create a purely stock rifle class. Would those rifles compete in an open class that they already have, would they compete in the production class, or would they have to create a separate class? A good example would be if I showed up with a Winchester model 70 chambered in .308 and every single thing on the gun was manufactured by Winchester. I have no scope, bipod, and I paid less than 3k for it. Which class or classes would my gun qualify to compete in? Here is a bonus. If you can answer this for me, I will leave this forum and never come back. Just keep in mind that I have heard enough about their fucked up rules. Simply answer which classes and I will apologize to everyone and I will leave. That is a promise.

That rifle can compete in Open, Production or Tac. Up to you which you want to shoot in.

 

[Rob01]

It would be like me having a gun worth at least 4500 compared to your 3000$ gun. How is that irrelevant?

It’s irrelevant because if you read the rules you would see that it goes by MSRP and not what you can buy it for. That is to keep a level playing field.

 

[Tokay444]

It would be like me having a gun worth at least 4500 compared to your 3000$ gun. How is that irrelevant?

No it wouldn’t. Because the msrp cap is $3000, regardless of what you pay.
Production class IS the “stock rifle” class you want them to make. It’s as if you haven’t even read the rules.

 

[Tokay444]

Good Lord. I am not asking what the rules are for a PRS production rifle. I am advocating for the PRS to create a purely stock rifle class. Would those rifles compete in an open class that they already have, would they compete in the production class, or would they have to create a separate class? A good example would be if I showed up with a Winchester model 70 chambered in .308 and every single thing on the gun was manufactured by Winchester. I have no scope, bipod, and I paid less than 3k for it. Which class or classes would my gun qualify to compete in? Here is a bonus. If you can answer this for me, I will leave this forum and never come back. Just keep in mind that I have heard enough about their fucked up rules. Simply answer which classes and I will apologize to everyone and I will leave. That is a promise.

Are all the Winchester parts on it from the factory?

 

[hafejd30]

This thread could literally be locked after post #42

 

[M4guru]

This thread could literally be locked after post #42

You spelled “Post #1” wrong

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Real simple jackass.

I went into a store. In Oregon. I said, these buys at sniper country told me to get one of dem dere Remington VSS cuase it be good for snipering.

We exchanged cold hard cash.

THEN it sat in my safe for about 15 years while i had a life. Then one day I said, "You know i outta like go shoot or sumtin" So I bought a scope, screwed it on and shot it. WOW I HIT THE TARGET!!! I SUCK ASS

So I read and I read and I practiced and I practiced and I took that same damn rifle to the range one day to do some load testing cause I am a cheap whore who can't stand to pay for expensive ammo and shot that group with 178 Hornady ELD and 41.5 grains of IMr 4064.

I also cleaned the rifle once or twice.

Same config
Same lawyer ass trigger
Same stock--its exactly the same as I bought it except knicks and scratchs from all the years of like "moving around and then shooting the damn thing". I didn't even paint it.

Its no different that a Badrock SouthFork (Defiant Action, whatever barrel they use, whatever trigger they use)
or an AT-X
or an AXSM
or a GAP (ok well GAP uses defiant actions, but my remingting had an HS-precision stock as bought--do i need to whip out the ol 30-30 and wood stock to club you with the point of these shenanigans?

The markings on the side say remington and apart from scope rings nothing has been added or subtracted.

"Stock" doesn't mean cheap--it means as configured from the manufacturer. You haven't got a CLUE what a stock gun looks like in 2023. There are $400 stock guns and there are $4000 stock guns and it makes not a fucking hill of beans difference which one you use because the ASSHOLE SHOOTING THE GUN is the important part. That's why we all think "Production" class is a joke--a STOCK RIFLE IS A FUCKING NICE RIFLE THESE DAYS.

I can drive to work in a kia. I drive a BMW cause I hate signaling and your mom needs room in the back seat when I pick her up on the corner.

I want to get this straight in all seriousness. My mom was killed in a car wreck in 94. I don't say that for sympathy. Here is what I will say in response to that. If you said that to me in person I would hurt you man. You would remember me for the rest of your life. No joking or BS response on this post. Make fun of me all you want, but you better leave it at that.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

I've owned lots of bolt action rifles. As a dealer, I've been able to handle, shoot, and own a number of different brands, builds actions, etc.

AI is no doubt priced at a premium compared to many other offerings. It certainly isn't for everyone. It's price alone will keep some shooters at bay, it's heavy bolt lift will keep others away, it's very limited aftermarket support for chassis will keep others away, and it's extremely limited trigger options will again keep some people from owning one. Also, AI does not offer a .223 or Magnum bolt face for the AT-X so you are stuck with calibers that share the .308 bolt face.

That said, the action is built like a tank. It's designed to keep running when it gets dirty. (I've seen a number of custom builds go down over the years at matches when the actions wouldn't shut from too much dirt/moon dust or the triggers went down). The AI AX I owned just shot. At one match I watched squad mates not be able to close their bolts on the clock due to the tight tolerances of their actions and the amount of dirt that was blowing into their actions. I was curious how my AI would run and and didn't clean or cover the action the entire match. Zero hiccups, zero trigger issues, 100% reliable.

AI builds a sniper rifle. The ATX is a sniper rifle in AI's version of a comp chassis with a comp trigger. The gun runs awesome. The action is smooth. Barrels swaps are so easy. A 4mm bit and 49 in lb torque limiter are all that's needed to swap barrels. My AI rifles always have gone back to recorded zeros when swapping barrels. That's great if you want to swap barrels and don't want to keep a torque wrench, barrel vice, and action wrench on hand.

The DD and Larue rifles really don't compare to the AT-X.

If you don't mind a heavy bolt lift and have a wallet that allows for a $5k rifle, the AI is one heck of a rifle.

If you're buying NF ATACR, ZCO, and TT Optics, a one to two grand extra on the rifle really becomes a non issue for most. AI's also hold their value a fair amount better than most custom built rifles.

I really appreciate that answer. Let's say that I wanted to compete in the production class and you sold me a AT-X for 2000$. Would that matter to the PRS?

 

[Rob01]

I really appreciate that answer. Let's say that I wanted to compete in the production class and you sold me a AT-X for 2000$. Would that matter to the PRS?

Again you are proving that you are reading nothing and just being a troll. Rifle MSRP is what matters. Not what you buy it for. Got it now? If not then guess we won’t be getting that apology huh?

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Again you are proving that you are reading nothing and just being a troll. Rifle MSRP is what matters. Not what you buy it for. Got it now? If not then guess we won’t be getting that apology huh?

Okay, Rifle MSRP matters. Are you saying that it doesn't matter if I buy a 5K AI for 2K. What matters is what it is worth from AI, no matter if I got the gun for 2k or not. In other words, it is still a 5k rifle by their rules, and I could not compete in the production class. Does that sound about right?

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Real simple jackass.

I went into a store. In Oregon. I said, these buys at sniper country told me to get one of dem dere Remington VSS cuase it be good for snipering.

We exchanged cold hard cash.

THEN it sat in my safe for about 15 years while i had a life. Then one day I said, "You know i outta like go shoot or sumtin" So I bought a scope, screwed it on and shot it. WOW I HIT THE TARGET!!! I SUCK ASS

So I read and I read and I practiced and I practiced and I took that same damn rifle to the range one day to do some load testing cause I am a cheap whore who can't stand to pay for expensive ammo and shot that group with 178 Hornady ELD and 41.5 grains of IMr 4064.

I also cleaned the rifle once or twice.

Same config
Same lawyer ass trigger
Same stock--its exactly the same as I bought it except knicks and scratchs from all the years of like "moving around and then shooting the damn thing". I didn't even paint it.

Its no different that a Badrock SouthFork (Defiant Action, whatever barrel they use, whatever trigger they use)
or an AT-X
or an AXSM
or a GAP (ok well GAP uses defiant actions, but my remingting had an HS-precision stock as bought--do i need to whip out the ol 30-30 and wood stock to club you with the point of these shenanigans?

The markings on the side say remington and apart from scope rings nothing has been added or subtracted.

"Stock" doesn't mean cheap--it means as configured from the manufacturer. You haven't got a CLUE what a stock gun looks like in 2023. There are $400 stock guns and there are $4000 stock guns and it makes not a fucking hill of beans difference which one you use because the ASSHOLE SHOOTING THE GUN is the important part. That's why we all think "Production" class is a joke--a STOCK RIFLE IS A FUCKING NICE RIFLE THESE DAYS.

I can drive to work in a kia. I drive a BMW cause I hate signaling and your mom needs room in the back seat when I pick her up on the corner.

If the most important part is the asshole shooting and not the gun, why are DD's shitty guns?

 

[Deleted member 211209]

It's ether that, or epic trolling. He'd probably argue that a Singer DLS isn't a Porsche either.

No I wouldn't. I only buy American cars.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

View attachment 8206249

More like unreal.

 

[spife7980]

I want to get this straight in all seriousness. My mom was killed in a car wreck in 94. I don't say that for sympathy. Here is what I will say in response to that. If you said that to me in person I would hurt you man. You would remember me for the rest of your life. No joking or BS response on this post. Make fun of me all you want, but you better leave it at that.

I wish you would have been in the vehicle with her

 

[LeftyJason]

I agree with you 100%. The problem is that nobody on here knows. Somebody told me yesterday that there were many ways to define stock. The folks on here are infatuated with the PRS. They can't understand that outside the PRS, stock, and production are the same.

We know. We all know that we know what you are referring to. It is entertainment to us. You're not even the most entertaining of these types of arguments.

Some of us have never shot in a competition at all. I don't really have the desire to anyway. Who the heck cares what PRS says? Most of us shoot to have fun.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Question….

When you buy a Chevy car, did Chevy make every part in that car? Pretty sure companies like AC Delco, Johnson Controls, Bose, all sell parts to Chevy that they use to build a car that EVERYONE would recognize as being completely “stock”.

So if GAP buys triggers from TriggerTech ( or whoever, I don’t even know who they use) that does not make the GAP rifle “custom”.

I think it depends. John Browning is responsible for designing almost all of Winchester's most famous lever action rifles. Just look at how many companies produce 1911s. Every one is his design. It was possible because these companies bought the patents. He did the same thing with FN Herstal because he wanted to slow down and make some money from his work. That is why people refer to FN's older shotguns as Belgium Brownings because they were sold as Brownings. So, if everything on those guns is made by Browning except for the trigger or some other part, it is custom in my opinion. I believe this because they are buying triggers or whatever to enhance the gun. Even DD uses Timney and Geiselle and that even makes my gun custom even though DD does not make their own triggers. That is my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

I wish you would have been in the vehicle with her

I almost was. If your mom had not stopped by that morning for her daily dicking, I might be dead today. Please thank her for me and tell her that I always thought it was cute when she called me the Ayatollah of Rock n Rolla and sometimes Daddy.

 

[Deleted member 211209]

Ew. For the price, you absolutely can beat it.
You can beat it for a lot less with a Tikka actually.

How much less?

 

[Deleted member 211209]

When Dodge drops a Cummins diesel into one of its trucks, does that make it a “custom”?

Yes.