Sidearms & Scatterguns Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

[tactic-als]

OK, this will be my first 1911 and I've only had Glocks till now and none of them are 45's (9mm and 40S&W). I had my eye on a Sig Scorpion for a while. A friend gave me an old issue of American Handgunner and it featured the P229 Scorpion (40S&W) and the 1911 Scorpion. I was not impressed with the accuracy of the 1911, shots were all over the place and the P229 had a nice, tight group. So, I'm thinking that IF I want a 45 and it's got to be a 1911, I should just get a "real" 1911? Does this make sense or is the "real" 1911 going more maintenance, less shooting?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

LOVE my Sig GSR 1911. Bought it used for $700. HELLUVA 1911 for $1000, never mind $700.

Lots of Sig1911 fans here on the hide. I'm one of them.

Advice: buy used. Their resale isn't good. Also, get one in "nitron" (Sigs traditional black finish), or stainless. The scorpion is cerakote or similar and doesn't wear as well.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

So are you talking about the accuracy of an actual 1911, or the accuracy of a 1911 in a magazine? I am having a hard time squaring your thread title with your post.

Are you wondering if a Sig 1911 is still a 1911? It is. The design of all 1911 are basically the same. The execution of the design is different for different manufacturers and there can be some very subtle differences, but usually nothing that will make a 1911 similar to a modern design like an M&P 45 or an HK 45.

The Springfield is a good quality gun to build on and customize later on if you want. You might also consider spending a bit more money and going semi-custom.

I don't know anything about the Sig 1911's. Some people swear Sig has gone downhill recently. Others say that is just not true. I dunno. If it were between those two, I would probably go with the Springer.

If it were me, I would look for a used Dan Wesson Valor.

And before I bought, if I had been shooting Glocks for years, I would probably rent a 1911 at the range or at least pick one up at a gun shop. You might not like the grip angle and if that is going to keep you from shooting it, why own it?

 

[tactic-als]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Sorry to add the bit about the magazine article featuring the Sigs but I was curious if there was something in addition to the external extractor that made the Sig different than the typical 1911 and if that resulted in poorer accuracy than what I would expect from a $1k 1911. ALSO, I was thinking a 5" Sig 1911 would outshoot the shorter P229. I know it's just a magazine but still...it surprised me.

I've handled/shot friend's 1911s and I don't get caught up on grip angle....thus the reason I want one. Perhaps it was perceived that I saw 1911 in a magazine and now I want one....NOT the case.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Just as an FYI, Sig made some changes to the 1911 design. It isn't a "true" 1911, sure its a single action and single stack with the same grip angle. The external extractor that Sig uses has been known for problems. Likewise the slide is a different profile than a traditional 1911 so some holster may or may not work.

If you follow Hilton Yam from 10-8 Performance he is a good place to start reading about various production 1911s. He has an ejection test that he does to highlight the downfall of the external extractor. If you take a single round, load it in the magazine, remove the magazine and fire that round, with the 3 Sig 1911s I have done this with, everyone showed the same issue. It allowed the spent case to ride up on the breech face and completely miss the ejector thus causing a jam.

I would read a little on 10-8 Performance and decide from there. If it were me, I would get the TRP and not even consider the Sig

 

[simmy952]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Thanks Deadly for the post. I will have to try that with my Sig 1911. I have 3 of them and all have been flawless since day one. I never thought about that and I have to try to see if my Sigs will pass or fail. I will post what happens during my test.

If you compare the features of what you get with other brands, they are a great value. As far as holsters, I have been using the same holster for my Sig profile 1911 that I use for my standard 1911. I use leather so that may be a little forgiving where kydex may not be. There are holster makers that have molds for the Sig 1911 now.

 

[finbox]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I just got a sig tacops threaded barrel and it shot 2" group at 50yards with cheap PMC ball.

So far I love it. No jams

New it was $909 and cam with 4 mags

 

[quiksilv81]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Love my Trp. I have owned various others and this is my favorite so far. Also if you ever have to sale it they hold their value well. This thing is really accurate and I haven't had a single hiccup in the 800 rounds I've put through it so far.

 

[simmy952]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Had a chance at lunch time to get out with 2 of my Sigs. Took the Ultra and the compact. I tried 25 rds of various ammo with 2 different mags (one was the standard OE sig and a Kimber Tactical). I had 10 rds of Federal FMJ, 10 rds of Winchester ranger, 3 Winchester Supreme, and 2 Golden Sabres. I loaded each mag with one round and chambered the round. The mag was then removed and the weapon fired. All of the brass FMJ round ejected without incident. The other HP ammo was spotty. Some of would jam and others would eject. Would say that it was about half and half. I should have watched more closely as to which ammo did what but I was in a hurry. One thing to add is that the HP carry ammo is nickle case. I wonder if that makes a difference? I will have to get back out and take my TacOps carry and try it also.

One thing to note. If it comes down to the point where I have the mag ejected and I am feeding rounds individually, I think that I am pretty well screwed anyway. Hopefully I will never be put into that situation but if you know it happens, you can be a little better prepared. I still like my Sig 1911 and otherwise have functioned perfectly.

 

[matt2143]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I have a late 2012 manufacture SIG 1911 Tac Ops. I was concerned about the check mate mag part of the deal but to their defense I have a thousand rounds through 4 mags without failure. I have been using 230 gr round nose MATCH and 185 SWC FGMM, both suppressed and unsuppressed. I have run it dry and shoot the can wet and beat it up. I make one hole groups at 10 yards and can out shoot any P220 or FNP 45. I love it so far. Also I have only cleaned it twice, once after 100 rounds and just now 900 rounds later.

 

[DBrace]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Hands down TRP. Have shot the Sig, however I like the TRP better. I would buy a used TRP Operator and never look back. You got to remember magazines get their money from advertisments.... sometimes they tell some bogus stuff!

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If it were me, I would look for a used Dan Wesson Valor.
</div></div>

I am with Carter. I really like the DW Valor

 

[Compact45]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I have a TRP and echo what others said, accurate and tight 1911!!! Also, Springfield has a lifetime warranty and custom shop. If you send it to their custom shop for alterations your warranty still stands. But the TRP is GTG as is.

I sent my loaded micro back because the slide would not release on a full mag when the slide was pulled back. They put a new slide on at no cost due to the slide being slightly out of spec.

Their custom shop, warranty, and customer service is excellent.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

The TRP operator all the way. The TRP is as bout as close quality wise as your gonna get to a custom without spending 3 grand. It shoots great, super accurate .45, looks great and has alot of custom features. The light rail is great for putting a TRL-1 light on it for night stand gun or night shooting. It also come with night sights.

 

[physhphude]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: finbox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got a sig tacops threaded barrel and it shot 2" group at 50yards with cheap PMC ball.

So far I love it. No jams

New it was $909 and cam with 4 mags</div></div>

Do you mean 50 feet?
PMC will not shoot a 2" group at 50 yards. Neither will a sig tacops. I would love for you to prove me wrong with pictures though.
It takes a lot of money to make a 1911 shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Neither a sig, nor a TRP will do it.

The sig 1911 is not a bad platform, but It leaves something to be desired in stock form, particularly the trigger. I think the TRP is probably the base level 1911 that really shows what the 1911 is capable of, and is a step above the Sig, but it is also a bit more expensive.

You can't go wrong with either, but the trigger on the sig is on the heavy side. If you can afford the extra for the TRP, I recommend it.

 

[leprechaun]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I have a Sig Tac ops that I carry daily for work.It had a feeding issue in the very beginning but a trip back to Sig fixed this.This was during the period where their manufacturing was taking a turn the wrong way.I believe they have made some changes as I have seen and shot some recent Tac Ops that are flawless. I have a few thousand rounds through mine since the trip back without a single stoppage. I am however running a 22# woolf recoil spring in mine.

With that being said the Springfields are and have been great guns.

The Sig Tac ops are a better value for your money when you compare features

 

[Karsten]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I have an earlier SS TRP and TRP Operator and couldn't be more please with both.

I am going to have to say TRP over the Sig myself. I do have a friend that just bought a C3 I think...2 tone compact and it will not seat a mag tight or lock the slide back on an empty mag. I thought a mag issue but it does the same with my SA LWT Compact mag, Metalform mags and new S&W Pro Series mags.

While you are looking I would also take a good hard look at the S&W line of 1911's...S&W did it right with a quality 1911.

As I understand they offer three different models, something Custom, Pro Series and the Standard 1911. I can't say about the Standard but the Pro Series Subcompact Scandium frame I bought is awesome.

Karsten

 

[finbox]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Here you go, 50 yards. My brother has a Les Baer with the 1 1/2" garentee. And was curious to see what my sig would shoot. I have never shot it this far.

We got a lot of strange looks and laughs when we set up the target a 50 yards on a 1000 yard range next to 6mm BR's and .338's some of the other guys must of been looking at my target with their scopes/ spotters cause I heard a bunch of " holy shit!" Comments.

He got on my 17 hmr scope ( I could not see the holes clearly), and the fist two shots I centered the sights on the center of the target and they were high, so the last 3 shots I sighted in on the lower rim of the blue.

The 3 shot group is less than 2"

Shot off a concrete bench with a wood block and two rear bags holding the pistol.

This is my first 1911 everybody told me they were more accurate than my glocks and now I'm a believer.

I wanted the TPR but its too much $, I liked the fact that the Sig is made with a forged stainless slide and frame. With black oxide..not regular steel with pant like the TPR.

I guess after shooting Glocks for ten years, and being a great shot with them, shooting a 1911 is like taking ankle weights off and going running...looking for a STI now

]

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

So the 2" was a group within a group... I see.

 

[finbox]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the 2" was a group within a group... I see.</div></div>

As said above point of aim was changed. Top two rounds where aimed at dead center of target. Lower 3 shot group was one right after the other with a Point of aim at the lower part of the blue.

 

[physhphude]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: finbox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the 2" was a group within a group... I see.</div></div>

As said above point of aim was changed. Top two rounds where aimed at dead center of target. Lower 3 shot group was one right after the other with a Point of aim at the lower part of the blue.</div></div>

I don't mean to give you a hard time, but that 3 shot group doesn't mean much. It looks like your Sig is very accurate for a 1911. But it would be misleading to say the sig is capable of shooting a 2 inch group at 50 yards. Any gun can shoot a 2" 3 shot group at 50 yards if you shoot enough groups.

My 1911 isn't even a 2 inch gun. It's a 2.5 inch gun, but I can shoot 10 shot groups, group after group, into 2.5 inches. (Well I can't offhand, but in a ransom rest)

Shoot a few 10 shot groups at 50 yards. You can even use match ammo, and report back.

Heck, even shoot some with the Baer, I'm betting that it won't do 1.5" with match ball ammo, much less PMC. Baer won't even build a 1.5" Ball gun. It's very difficult, i'm very happy that mine will do under 2.5"

The 1.5" guarantee is with match grade SWC ammo, not ball ammo. If you want a gun that will do under 2 inches at 50 yards, it isn't going to be a sig or a springfield TRP. Heck my current production Sig P210 won't even do 2 inches at 50 yards.

 

[physhphude]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

Another reason why the sig won't be a 2" at 50 yard gun is because it is stainless. I don't think it is possible to build a 2 inch 1911 out of stainless steel. If it does, it won't do it for long. Stainless galls if it is fitted to the tolerances necessary to build a 2" ball gun.

Note that Baer won't build you a 1.5" gun in stainless either.

 

[fpdsniper]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

TRP all the way.

 

[Super Bee 950]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

The Springfield Range Officer is also a great out of the box gun if you can find one.

 

[finbox]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I will try to give it another go next time I'm at the range. 5 3 shot groups. All I have is the PMC.

Free hand at 15 yards, 5 targets had 3 shot groups all were one hole.

What does your average 1911 shot at 50 yards?

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

This is more typical of my 1911:

That is just under 3" at 25 yards. It is 10 shots using the Weaver stance with my Les Baer... with a 1.5" guarantee. Obviously, it is difficult to match the guarantee from a standing position.

 

[Bradu]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

That's pretty impressive, I know it could be done but I want to see someone shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with a pistol.

 

[physhphude]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

I think typical 1911 accuracy at 50 yards is about 4-5 inches.

I don't have 50 yard groups, but here are some pictures at 25 off a bench. 5 shot groups.

My 1911 at 25 yards

 

[3-0-hate]

Re: Sig 1911 vs SA TRP

My TRP Operator was warmed over by Larry Vickers himself and the thing is a tack driver..

My buddy also has a box stock TRP operator and it is also GTG..

Springfield also has the best customer service in the industry, hands down. The good people at Springfield will bend over backwards to make things right and make you happy, and they will do it with a smile. And the lifetime warranty is lifetime of the gun, whether it was purchased first hand, second or even 10ths, they will take care of you the same.

One of my favorite Springfield CS stories I like to tell is about when I sent in my HS2000.. It's basically a gen 0 XD. Springfield didn't import it, they made no money on it, but when I had an issue, they happily stepped up and fixed the issue. I was getting a rusty slide (blued, not melonite) and they melonited it, replaced the locking block to the new style block and replaced all the springs free of charge. The only stuff I paid for was the elected extra work (Black-T and Novak style tritium night sights)

I will always try to give SA my business first. They even offered to convert my M1a loaded to National Match specs for something like $125.. Great group of people!!