SIG 716 Ejector Flaw

[dc45]

I started having catastrophic ejection failures (the fired case still on the bolt face with the next round partially fed into the chamber) with a new (less than 300 rounds) SIG 716. Pressing on the ejector revealed that the ejector was locked up tight, i.e. it didn't want to depress, and when bumped in with punch, the ejector stuck in the depressed position. I called up SIG & their response was "you have to send the entire rifle back." What a crock of $hit.

With a bit of effort I removed the ejector & spring and discovered that the ejector hole was so rough that when the spring & ejector are pressed in they just stick. I can't tell whether this is caused by improper machining or a flawed investment casting procedure. The bottom line is the rifle is useless 'as is.' To make matters worse, SIG's 'you are too stupid to remove an ejector' policy means this puppy is hard broke until I can get a machinist to properly drill out the ejector hole. My confidence in SIG's quality control, not to mention their customer service is badly shaken. Does anyone happen to know whether the SIG bolt is interchangeable with a more carefully manufactured (LaRue, POF or LWRC) part?

 

[LRRPF52]

First off, "catastrophic" refers to destruction of the firearm, not a simple malfunction.

The ejector channel definitely needs to be smooth.

Bolts are not investment cast, as they would fail under the pressure. They are machined from high-grade steel stock, then tempered.

In this latest surge of post-SH production demands, I am very weary about purchasing rifles made. SIG normally is known for top quality when it comes to rifles.

I simple polishing or cleaning of the ejector channel should put you back in good standing if the channel is as you describe.

I'm not familiar with the SIG716 bolt dimensions, and compatibility with other 7.62 AR10 bolts.

 

[grubbylabs]

After getting burned on a 1911 ultra from sig I have sworn them off and will never own another sig. They are liars and have piss poor CS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smokin.338]

I say try calling them back, with my experiences with Sig... CS has Always been top notch! They should issue you a call tag (on their dime) to have the problem taken care of...

 

[dc45]

First off, "catastrophic" refers to destruction of the firearm, not a simple malfunction.

The ejector channel definitely needs to be smooth.

Bolts are not investment cast, as they would fail under the pressure. They are machined from high-grade steel stock, then tempered.

In this latest surge of post-SH production demands, I am very weary about purchasing rifles made. SIG normally is known for top quality when it comes to rifles.

I simple polishing or cleaning of the ejector channel should put you back in good standing if the channel is as you describe.

I'm not familiar with the SIG716 bolt dimensions, and compatibility with other 7.62 AR10 bolts.

OK, perhaps 'catastrophic ejection failures' was the wrong terminology; what I meant was ejection failures which mean that any follow up shot(s) required are going to be a long time coming since the mag has to be stripped out, the bolt locked back and then the empty case removed from the bolt face. Then the mag can be reinserted, the bolt closed and an additional shot fired. A third shot would require the same procedure be repeated. A bit quicker than with a muzzle loader, but not good when you need quick follow up shots.

I have cleaned the ejector channel thoroughly & it is still rough enough that the ejector spring has to be forced in. While I have Dremels & a lot of polishing media, I haven’t figured out how to polish inside such a small channel so far. Since I don’t have a drill bit which fits the hole, I am going to have to find a machinist’s set of numbered drills to get one that fits.

I know another shooter who has a 716, and he has also been getting shiny ejector marks on his brass, not to mention thin divots of brass scraped off the case head by the ejector. He said he called SIG to ask about it and they told him ‘they weren’t a reloading company’ and weren’t concerned about the brass being buggered up. How much do you want to bet he also has a tight/rough ejector channel?

 

[peaceatwar]

Have you called SIG? Has SIG had a chance to make this right?

If not, IMHO your post has no merit.

 

[grubbylabs]

. I called up SIG & their response was "you have to send the entire rifle back." What a crock of $hit. (DC45)

 

[dc45]

Update: I called back and got hold of the customer service supervisor. He agreed to 'sell' me a new bolt with ejector. When I return the original bolt to SIG, he will refund my $$. Definitely a big improvement on the original 'you have to send the entire rifle back for us to do anything' response. So the downtime should be minimized. Thanks for the suggestion. I will update when once again: "everything is bon."

 

[grubbylabs]

Well I honestly hope it works out well for you, good luck.

 

[leadbullet]

Sending to whole rifle back makes sense if they want to make sure it doesn't happen again and to solve the problem permanently in your gun. They don't know how good you are at diagnostic a rifle problem, there maybe other issues here (or not) you haven't figured out.
Good luck bro
Cheers.

 

[Cold_Bore_88]

Word of advice, when they say send the rifle back, send it back. I have heard of sig sending people brand new updated models. My brother in law had an issue with the cerakote on his 1911 Scorpion. He called and they said to send it in. He did and got a brand new pistol with a threaded barrel in return. No offense to anyone on the forum but if I was a manufacturer and heard of failures in my product, I wouldn’t want the customer tearing into the rifle to fix it and further exacerbating the problem, and then wanting to send it in. However, I did have one bad experience with Sig when I asked about the 716 barrel. I was looking at replacing it and asked for any specific dimensions to verify a standard AR-10 barrel would work. They told me that I shouldnt replace the barrel and would give me no dimenions.

 

[dc45]

While waiting for the new bolt to arrive, I tried polishing up the ejector hole with some emery cloth wrapped around a drill bit. The ejector itself went in smoothly, but the spring remains very tight in the hole, which makes me wonder whether this issue was caused by an oversized spring. The rifle ran for almost 50 rounds before ‘failures to eject’ started happening again.

The new bolt arrived in the mail this morning. It dropped in without drama and headspaced exactly the same as the old bolt. All rounds fired so far have run flawlessly. Curiously, the brass piles up about 6 feet further back (at 4 o’clock instead of 3 o’clock) than it did with the old bolt. The 1st five shots (from the bipod @ 100 yards) were touching, well under an inch. Once again, I am a happy camper.

 

[GONIF]

Glad it worked out well for you ,I have had great luck with all the Sigs I own. My 716p has been flawless .

 

[Grizz308]

Gen1 or gen2 Sig716. When did they crank out gen2?

Anyone know when Sig started shipping gen2 version of the 716 carbine. TY in advanse if ya know

 

[Grizz308]

Bolt

I started having catastrophic ejection failures (the fired case still on the bolt face with the next round partially fed into the chamber) with a new (less than 300 rounds) SIG 716. Pressing on the ejector revealed that the ejector was locked up tight, i.e. it didn't want to depress, and when bumped in with punch, the ejector stuck in the depressed position. I called up SIG & their response was "you have to send the entire rifle back." What a crock of $hit.

With a bit of effort I removed the ejector & spring and discovered that the ejector hole was so rough that when the spring & ejector are pressed in they just stick. I can't tell whether this is caused by improper machining or a flawed investment casting procedure. The bottom line is the rifle is useless 'as is.' To make matters worse, SIG's 'you are too stupid to remove an ejector' policy means this puppy is hard broke until I can get a machinist to properly drill out the ejector hole. My confidence in SIG's quality control, not to mention their customer service is badly shaken. Does anyone happen to know whether the SIG bolt is interchangeable with a more carefully manufactured (LaRue, POF or LWRC) part?

You need a new bolt from Sig and will end up with proper headspace. It will be more accurate and chew up any ammo flawless. Trust me

 

[Fenix Mike]

Sending to whole rifle back makes sense if they want to make sure it doesn't happen again and to solve the problem permanently in your gun. They don't know how good you are at diagnostic a rifle problem, there maybe other issues here (or not) you haven't figured out.
Good luck bro
Cheers.

This... I can tell you from experience 90% of gun owners don't know more than the location of the trigger and how to waste ammunition at a high rate of speed... They are just covering their asses and wanting the entire rifle back for inspection and likely testing if there was a flaw. I personally feel most of their techs are idiots, but I also understand liability concerns, especially on something that can cause severe damage if improperly installed.

 

[Scotts556]

Nothing wrong with wanting the rifle back.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have had my 716 patrol for about a year and have had no issues with it. I have about 1500 or so rounds though it. I shoot M-80 Ball 7.62x51 and about 100 rounds of the FED 7.62x51 175 SMK worked fine.. I think if I told them what happened and they didn't want the rifle back I would be mad and asking why!

 

[dc45]

Follow up: About 100 rounds in with the new bolt assembly SIG sold me, I again started to get failures to eject (groan). Same symptoms: A lot of brass shavings in the ejector hole which eventually ties it up to the point where it is stuck. Again there were divots on the (virgin Lake City) case heads with most cases showing a raised sliver of brass. It is these slivers of brass which have been wedging into the ejector hole and eventually tying up the ejector. I spoke with the guys at SIG again and they e-mailed me a shipping label so they could take a look at the problem. The CS rep I spoke with said SIG has still not changed over to the dual ejector bolt which they have been advertising since early in the year.

I then recollected Robert Whitley's article about AR ejector problems ( AR Ejector Mod For Improved Reliability with Larger Cartridges « Daily Bulletin ), and figured I didn't have much to lose. I beveled the ejector face as recommended in the article, and 'Voila!' no divots on the brass face. The brass was now ejecting with authority back at five o'clock. Cutting one coil off the ejector spring moved the brass pile to 4 o'clock, and removing a second coil moved the brass pile (a nice neat pile which can be covered with a hat) to 2 o'clock. Most importantly (for the long run), the bolt face, the extractor cavity & and the ejector hole are no longer filling up with brass shavings. The rifle has digested 130+ rounds of M-80, A136 and reloads without a bobble. We won't know for sure until we put a couple hundred more rounds through, but I believe this puppy is fixed. Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions.
Cheers,

DC