Sig Kilo 2400 ABS App: Accounting for Temp/Pressure in your profile?

[ssssnake529]

I bought a Sig Kilo 2400 ABS

Setting up my gun profiles.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to input what the environmental factors were when you zeroed the rifle.

The app doesn't know if your 100 yard zero was at sea level or 10,000 feet. If the app doesn't have your zero environmental baseline, how could it possibly tell you how much to correct if you are shooting under environmental conditions which vary from when you sighted in the rifle and zeroed your scope?

I sight my rifle in at 4000 feet above sea level. I hunt at 10,000 feet above sea level. My shots at 10,000 are going to be high.

Strelok Pro (the app I am used to using) has input for the weather conditions when you zeroed the rifle. I don't see anything similar in the ABS software for the Kilo 2400.

I must be missing something. Given how detailed the ABS app is, I can't imagine there is no way to account for environmental conditions when the rifle was zeroed.

Any help?

 

[_Windrider_]

Which AB App are you using? AB Mobile on an iphone?

 

[ssssnake529]

Using the Sig Kilo 2400 app that came with the Kilo 2400 (for android)

 

[Holliday]

I bought a Sig Kilo 2400 ABS

Setting up my gun profiles.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to input what the environmental factors were when you zeroed the rifle.

The app doesn't know if your 100 yard zero was at sea level or 10,000 feet. If the app doesn't have your zero environmental baseline, how could it possibly tell you how much to correct if you are shooting under environmental conditions which vary from when you sighted in the rifle and zeroed your scope?

I sight my rifle in at 4000 feet above sea level. I hunt at 10,000 feet above sea level. My shots at 10,000 are going to be high.

Strelok Pro (the app I am used to using) has input for the weather conditions when you zeroed the rifle. I don't see anything similar in the ABS software for the Kilo 2400.

I must be missing something. Given how detailed the ABS app is, I can't imagine there is no way to account for environmental conditions when the rifle was zeroed.

Any help?

That’s why you zero at 100 yrds. Environmentals should not effect a 100 yard zero. This is my understanding.

 

[_Windrider_]

Using the Sig Kilo 2400 app that came with the Kilo 2400 (for android)

ok. not familiar with that interface. Sorry.

 

[_Windrider_]

That’s why you zero at 100 yrds. Environmentals should not effect a 100 yard zero. This is my understanding.

you still need to record your pressure and temp at a minimum so the app can account for a zero shift in different pressure zones. Granted, there usually isnt one large enoughto matter but it does happen. i use AB Mobile and AB Analytics, both have inputs for zero conditions. it usually also accounts for your zero offset if there is one.

 

[Holliday]

you still need to record your pressure and temp at a minimum so the app can account for a zero shift in different pressure zones. Granted, there usually isnt one large enoughto matter but it does happen. i use AB Mobile and AB Analytics, both have inputs for zero conditions. it usually also accounts for your zero offset if there is one.

I never do. This is how I was taught by Zak Smith. If there is no place to input it, you can’t.

 

[ssssnake529]

As far as I can tell, the Applied Ballistics standalone app has the same issue. (I've got the Applied Ballistics app too.)

As for environmentals effecting a 100 yard zero, they absolutely do. Sight in a rifle at sea level. Take that same rifle to 10,000 feet. It will shoot high, even at 100 yards.

 

[ssssnake529]

I've got the AB mobile app too. Looks like the zero environmentals are in the bullet screen. There is no equivalent in the ABS 2400 app that I can find.

 

[_Windrider_]

Thisis AB Mobile on iPhone. As you can see, zero conditions are recorded.

 

[ssssnake529]

Yes, I found it on my ABS app for android. On the bullet screen.

Can't find an analogous input for the ABS 2400 app.

 

[ssssnake529]

Here's the screen for the ABS2400 app. Nothing there for zero atmosphere.

 

[Holliday]

I think that’s one of those subjective questions like bedding lugs or barrel breaking in. I shoot a lot and have never seen it. My Kestrel does not have an input for 100 yards zero environmentals. What we do have is MV Temp shift. That I use.

Like I said, early on my LR mentor Zak Smith told me not to factor environmentals in the 100 yards zero so I never have. Since devices I use have no inputs for it I have had no reason to rethink that. His position on that could have change since then too.....

 

[Holliday]

I checked myself on the Kestrel . No inputs and texts with AB confirms “Not needed” . Below is same gun 100 yards. Left is 541 DA and right is 9535 DA. No change at 100 yards.

 

[ssssnake529]

Max. I ran your two examples through Strelok. A rifle that is sighted in a 100 yards at 26.11 inHg and the same rifle sighted in at 100 yards at 22.84 inHg. It's true that the differences between them are not great. With a high BC 230 grain 308 bullet, the difference between sight in conditions only made a difference of 1 inch at 800 yards. I'm not a good enough shot to consistently measure a 1 inch variation at 800 yards.

 

[Holliday]

Max. I ran your two examples through Strelok. A rifle that is sighted in a 100 yards at 26.11 inHg and the same rifle sighted in at 100 yards at 22.84 inHg. It's true that the differences between them are not great. With a high BC 230 grain 308 bullet, the difference between sight in conditions only made a difference of 1 inch at 800 yards. I'm not a good enough shot to consistently measure a 1 inch variation at 800 yards.

I actually changed both temp and station pressure to manipulate Density Altitude.the 541 DA was 0 deg F. And I think the 9535 DA was 73 deg f.

The right way to manipulate DA actually would be to use ICAO standards.

0 ft DA would be 29.92 inHG , 59 Deg F , 0% RH

10,000 ft DA would be 20.57, 23.3 Deg F, 0% RH

Or If strelok has a DA input you could just use that. Kestrel does not.

 

[V-Ref]

Snake, do you have the ability to verify/rezero at base camp before going up the mountain?

Most folks zero POI shifts more than the enviros can effect it IMHO. You may have such a good grip on the fundamentals, that you can appreciate the zero atmo function though. There are shooters that good, don't mean to insult if that's the case.

I would suggest finding a way to sneak in a base camp zero, the powder temp comp function, and cold bore poi/velocity testing/validation a better return on your investment of time for most shooters.

 

[V-Ref]

Example above...load development/zero is done at home on a lead sled. Pre hunt zero is done off a 11" bipod and a bean rear bag off a shooting mat. In this example...lets assume in both cases the barrels (and shooter) is usually warmed up. Actual hunt conditions is built off your Elberstock and a 24" bipod with a improvised rear support shooting up at a 7 degrees of inclination, and cold bore/ammo at 25F. Even the best shooters that have a rock solid grasp on fundamentals, you can obviously appreciate that their zero is gonna shift, let alone the 15-25 fps variation due to ammo/bore temp. I say it's definitely a worthwhile square to check, but there are other blocks to check before that one. Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[ssssnake529]

I agree. Lots of other things will affect my accuracy more than the difference in temp/pressure during zeroing. I do like to control the things I can, however. (No sense giving up accuracy where I don't need to.) It's just one more variable, even if it's just an inch at 800 yards, I'd still like to be able to compensate for that. One less thing to worry about while I'm focusing on improving my poor technique, poor shooting position, etc.

 

[Steel+Killer]

One way you could manipulate the ABS 2400 APP would be to run the environmental zero difference on the AB mobile app see what the difference is and then create another profile on the ABS 2400 APP with the "zero offset" put in and name it something like "Rem 700 6.5CM @ 10K" then when you go hunting at 10K choose that profile.

 

[Holliday]

Max. I ran your two examples through Strelok. A rifle that is sighted in a 100 yards at 26.11 inHg and the same rifle sighted in at 100 yards at 22.84 inHg. It's true that the differences between them are not great. With a high BC 230 grain 308 bullet, the difference between sight in conditions only made a difference of 1 inch at 800 yards. I'm not a good enough shot to consistently measure a 1 inch variation at 800 yards.

One way you could manipulate the ABS 2400 APP would be to run the environmental zero difference on the AB mobile app see what the difference is and then create another profile on the ABS 2400 APP with the "zero offset" put in and name it something like "Rem 700 6.5CM @ 10K" then when you go hunting at 10K choose that profile.

I must say I’m a bit confused here. If there is 1inch change at 800 yards , wouldn’t that be a theoretical 1/8 “ at 100 yards? I hear what you are saying about being precise but knowing how geeky precise Litz and Co. are it’s hard to think they would call that a “wash”.

So if AB says and shows no change at 100 yards, one has to assume its changing further down the line. Aren’t the environmentals making this change at 800 yards already?

So I’d propose running the same test as above but using DA or ICAO standard to manipulate DA for sea level and then 10,000 ft. Then check zero verses 800 yards at each.

My take is you’ll see no change in zero but dope will change accordingly at 800 yards.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Max I totally hear what you are saying and at the same time I understand the OP wanting to be as precise as possible especially shooting at a once in a lifetime (insert game animal here) What if he happens to pull it 1inch and then add the other 1 inch from not being as quite as accurate as he could have been setting up his 2400 if hes got my luck he would be 2 inches off from that once in a lifetime (insert game animal here) taking a dirt nap or getting away..........Just saying!

 

[Holliday]

Max I totally hear what you are saying and at the same time I understand the OP wanting to be as precise as possible especially shooting at a once in a lifetime (insert game animal here) What if he happens to pull it 1inch and then add the other 1 inch from not being as quite as accurate as he could have been setting up his 2400 if hes got my luck he would be 2 inches off from that once in a lifetime (insert game animal here) taking a dirt nap or getting away..........Just saying!

None of my posts even came close to questioning this...... “Just saying”? . I’m the guy who argues that .5 MOA Gun benefits a 1 MOA shooter. So I get that.

The question was about environmental zero. THERE IS NO INPUT FOR THAT IN THE 2400 Kilo. Nor my Kestrel.

AB says it is inconsequential. Not Necessary. So does Zak Smith. Would love to hear what Frank (lowlight) thinks. I’m sure like barrel break-in, there are varying opinions.

Looking at the OPs numbers, it looks to be about 1/8” at 100 yards(based on the 1inch at 800 yards). (Probably less because the bullet fall rates is accelerated at each 100 yards.) if it were that much you can bet the super-brains AB would put it in there.

Somehow there “seems” to be a suggestion that since there is no seen adjustment at the 100 yard zero, there is no correction further out. There is. Beyond 100 yards the dope changes to the conditions. Hence the 1inch at 800 yards.

This is why even with my hunting rifle I do a 100 yards zero then dail my environmental dope to Max PBR (maximum point blank range). That way I’m good for out to 373 yards without having to dial. That’s my new zero for that day....based on environmentals.

So let’s say you adjust a second dope at 100 yards. Now you are introducing the very error, that you are trying to fix, beyond 100 yards.

 

[Steel+Killer]

AB says it is inconsequential. Not Necessary. So does Zak Smith. Would love to hear what Frank (lowlight) thinks. I’m sure like barrel break-in, there are varying opinions.

I would like to point out that that even though AB does not include atmosphere zero in the 2400 Kilo or the Kestrel they do have an option for atmosphere zero in their AB Mobile app.

So let’s say you adjust a second dope at 100 yards. Now you are introducing the very error, that you are trying to fix, beyond 100 yards.

I don't quite get what you are saying here. If you make a copy of your rifle profile and set it up to have the zero offset you think it would have at a higher altitude and then only use that rifle profile at that higher altitude how is that introducing an error? The ballistic app would then calculate your dope based on the zero offset from that point out. Let me finish by saying do I think all this is probably "splitting hairs" Yes!

 

[Holliday]

Let me finish by saying do I think all this is probably "splitting hairs" Yes!

Right, this was brought up MANY posts ago. Yes the mobile app has it.

The kilo 2400 does not...

It is as intended per AB not to have it. Dude this is pretty simple. I’ve checked with AB and explained in the simplest way I can. I own the Kestrel and deal with it daily. It does not have zero atmosphere either. Have you contacted AB?? If you can’t understand my simple explanation, I suggest you contact them.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Right, this was brought up MANY posts ago. Yes the mobile app has it.

The kilo 2400 does not...

It is as intended per AB not to have it. Dude this is pretty simple. I’ve checked with AB and explained in the simplest way I can. I own the Kestrel and deal with it daily. It does not have zero atmosphere either. Have you contacted AB?? If you can’t understand my simple explanation, I suggest you contact them.

Man I believe you have a comprehension problem. No where did I say that the the Kilo 2400 or the Kestrel should have it or needs it. I was simply pointing out to the OP that there is a way around it and you clearly can't understand my simple explanation of how it could be done. I also have the Kilo 2400 and the Kestrel 5700 Elite. Once again so you can understand I NEVER SAID THE KILO 2400 OR THE KESTREL OR ANY OTHER BALLISTIC PROGRAM NEED TO HAVE A zero atmosphere OPTION.....LOL

 

[Nik H]

I am assuming that the 2400 has a MV correction table to take temperature into account?

Coldbore lets you store your zero environment and if you enter MV as a function of temperature, you can turn on field conditions which take temperature effects into account. It also will take RH and station pressure differences into account. Though it doesn't distinguish how much each of these variables enter into the overall solution.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

The Kilo 2400 has the Temp Table Feature.

The mobile app has a single MV/FPS value input. The mobile app also has the ability to set zero atmosphere. In fact the engine in the Kestrel, Kilo, Foretrex... All support that function. It is in the engine. However if you zero at 100 yards, you don't need that function. I have zeroed a rifle at 200ft altitude, taken it to 10,000ft and the zero was fine. You are more likely to have something happen due to the way your luggage is treated during travel, than to have a shift. There are other factors that can cause a zero shift too, much more influential at 100 yards. Such as your shooting position, what you are shooting off of, and more.

Zero your rifle at 100 yards, and you do not need to record atmospherics. That function is for long range zeros, which used to be a problem with the limited movement of turrets, or lack decent turret adjustments. These days those are not issues.

 

[LastShot300]

The Kilo 2400 has the Temp Table Feature.

The mobile app has a single MV/FPS value input. The mobile app also has the ability to set zero atmosphere. In fact the engine in the Kestrel, Kilo, Foretrex... All support that function. It is in the engine. However if you zero at 100 yards, you don't need that function. I have zeroed a rifle at 200ft altitude, taken it to 10,000ft and the zero was fine. You are more likely to have something happen due to the way your luggage is treated during travel, than to have a shift. There are other factors that can cause a zero shift too, much more influential at 100 yards. Such as your shooting position, what you are shooting off of, and more.

Zero your rifle at 100 yards, and you do not need to record atmospherics. That function is for long range zeros, which used to be a problem with the limited movement of turrets, or lack decent turret adjustments. These days those are not issues.

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