I am looking for a 9mm to use for a range/competition gun. I am going to be shooting in some tactical type matches that have a run and gun stage or a pistol stage and am trying to decide on a new pistol. I am fairly new to shooting pistols so I am looking for opinions on which of these is a better gun or anything I should stay away from. It will not be used for cc, strictly range and competition. I have narrowed my choices down to a sig p226(extreme maybe?), s&w M&P 9 pro series, or a CZ sp-01. Pros/cons? Any others I should be looking at? Thanks!
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Sidearms & Scatterguns Sig p226, s&w M&P9, or cz sp-01
- Thread starter predator hunter
- Start date
The guns you've mentioned are not really comparable. SIG and S&W are much like law enforcement with terrible and heavy trigger, CZ SP 01 is light years ahead if you need it for range/competitions.
Just check for CZ spare parts in your country. Tanfoglio Stock III is great too, is the onlu matchable with CZ SP01.
Just check for CZ spare parts in your country. Tanfoglio Stock III is great too, is the onlu matchable with CZ SP01.
Go M&P9 Pro Series. I have been shooting M&P for seven plus years and own Pros in 9 and 40 along with a CORE in 9mm. M&P ergonomics are the best and I have seen one range gun take on 70,000 rounds or 40S&W so I know they are tough too. The only way to ever "kill" a M&P is to take a hammer to the frame. Everything else, including frame rails, can be easily replaced within a matter or minutes.
On the Sig front... Look at the Tacops. Comes with 4, 20 rd mags and SRT trigger. Or of you want to have some real fun get a X5! 
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The guns you've listed are all reliable and good options. Which one feels the best to you? Have you shot any of these particular guns? Each shooter is different and what feels good to me might feel uncomfortable to you. As far as mechanics, the M&P Pro is a striker (or safe action) gun that many like because of the single pull weight of the trigger (about 6 lbs). The Pro has a 5" barrel which is longer by about 1/2" than both the Sig and CZ. This equates to a longer sight radius which helps with accuracy especially at longer ranges. M&P triggers typically need a little work but there are parts available from Apex to upgrade them and improve reset and pull weight. As for the CZ, this gun is a DA/SA (Double Action/Single Action) offering that also has a manual safety. CZs are known for their low bore axis which help with recoil and making follow-up shots. The triggers out of the box are heavy (12 lb DA and 6 lb SA) but they can be worked by a competent "smith" to lower the pull weight and remove their grittyness. I've never been a fan of the manual safety on the CZ and prefer to use the "decocker" for putting the weapon in a safe condition. This doesn't mean that it's an undesirable feature, just not for me. Sigs, like the CZs, are a DA/SA gun that has no manual safety and requires that you "decock" the gun to make it safe. Triggers are pretty good out of the box with a DA pull weight around 8-10 lbs and the SA about 4-5 lbs. Biggest complaints of the DA/SA guns is the two trigger pull weights involved in their operation. These complaints are usually by people too lazy to work at the fundamentals and mastering their weapon.
Smokin.338 mentioned "vetting" an Sig X-5...they are tack drivers. Barrel length is 5", so they have a long sight radius, and they have an adjustable rear sight which allows you to tune your POA/POI to one you prefer. They are all stainless, so a little heavier than the alloy framed versions, and they cost a little more than the others but they are a real pleasure to shoot.
I strongly suggest holding each of the guns you are considering to see which feels best to you. Then find a range with rentals and shoot a few rounds to see if one stands out in the way it it feels when shooting, vs static, or if you're more accurate with one over another. A little homework now will help you make an informed decision and give you a handgun you'll be happy with n the long term. Any of the guns you're looking into will serve you well.
Hope this helps...Sig Marine (Certified Sig Armorer)
Smokin.338 mentioned "vetting" an Sig X-5...they are tack drivers. Barrel length is 5", so they have a long sight radius, and they have an adjustable rear sight which allows you to tune your POA/POI to one you prefer. They are all stainless, so a little heavier than the alloy framed versions, and they cost a little more than the others but they are a real pleasure to shoot.
I strongly suggest holding each of the guns you are considering to see which feels best to you. Then find a range with rentals and shoot a few rounds to see if one stands out in the way it it feels when shooting, vs static, or if you're more accurate with one over another. A little homework now will help you make an informed decision and give you a handgun you'll be happy with n the long term. Any of the guns you're looking into will serve you well.
Hope this helps...Sig Marine (Certified Sig Armorer)
No, I haven't shot any of these guns yet, not a lot of pistol shooters in my area. I am going to try to get to a range where I could try them all, and maybe a Springfield xdm. I did come across a sub 3lb apex trigger kit for the M&P so that has me leaning that way so far.
What competitions are you looking to get into? I've owned and shot competitively with both a M&P 9 Pro and a CZ SP-01 Shadow (as well as other pistols) and for me there's no question the CZ fits my needs better. The extra weight of the CZ keeps recoil down and makes it very easy to shoot fast, the DA trigger is very easy to manage when set up for range/competition use, the SA trigger pull is fantastic, spare parts and magazines are really easy to get and are reasonably priced. It's nice with the CZ as well that you can replace the grip panels with ones that match your preference for thickness and contour. There's also a big selection of aftermarket parts for the CZs through CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works. If you're even moderately competent with basic tools you can easily do all the work yourself.
Back to my initial question though... what competitions are you looking at? That'll help you narrow down choices since not every gun may be legal for every competition.
Back to my initial question though... what competitions are you looking at? That'll help you narrow down choices since not every gun may be legal for every competition.
I have shot all three of the models you are looking at extensively. They all have their pluses and minuses. I would pick the one that felt best in your hand and then think about just how many matches you will actually shoot with it. For me, I would have a tough time paying quite a bit more for the Sig Sauer and the CZ Shadow. The M&P is a bit more value priced and can be made to fit just about anybody's hands. It also has the same trigger pull every time, unlike the other two. That being said, I own a couple of the CZ's and several 226's and have since sold my M&P Pro's. If you have any questions, please ask.
Bill (S&W M&P Armorer and CZ Armorer)
Bill (S&W M&P Armorer and CZ Armorer)
Mainly I will be shooting in tactical type matches with either a run and gun type match or a pistol stage, no dedicated handgun matches. Maybe some local 3 gun type matches eventually.
I am strongly leaning towards a cz right now, and maybe having it converted to single action only at some point. (Probably not necessary for my intended purpose, but maybe). I did read a review somewhere that they can be a pain to work on or even clean due to all the small parts internally, is there any truth to that? I am going to cabelas today and hopefully I will be able to handle a few.
I am strongly leaning towards a cz right now, and maybe having it converted to single action only at some point. (Probably not necessary for my intended purpose, but maybe). I did read a review somewhere that they can be a pain to work on or even clean due to all the small parts internally, is there any truth to that? I am going to cabelas today and hopefully I will be able to handle a few.
I've never had an issue with the number of internal parts, and that's especially true if you pick up a Shadow version since it does away with a fair number of internal parts. As far as converting to SA, it's as simple as getting a SA trigger (like literally the trigger itself) and then just remove the disconnector. Think of a SA CZ (especially a Shadow) like a really reliable, accurate, durable, and easy to work on doublestack 9mm 1911. If you're not competing in IDPA or USPSA then you'll have a lot more latitude with the modifications you can make. Cabelas may have the basic 75B models, but to find the more specialized stuff a place like CZ Custom (www.czcustom.com) will probably be your best bet.
Are you guys that shoot the M&P shooting with the stock trigger or did you upgrade to an Apex? I would really like a sp-01 shadow but can't really justify $1200 plus for a pistol right now, especially considering I can get a M&P for around $600. The extra 600 will buy a lot of ammo.
My vote is the for the M&P. Stick with a gun that has a consistent trigger pull. The first shot in DA may mess with you and cause point or time deductions.
I have the M&P with Apex Forward Set Sear/Trigger Package and must say that it helped the trigger A LOT. The kit comes with two springs to allow you to adjust the trigger pull weight depending on personal preference and/or whether or not the gun is for carry or range only use. Reset is faster than stock and more tactile. Over-travel was reduced somewhat as well. For me, it was a worthwhile upgrade.
If you're having a hard time deciding, find a range that has even a normal CZ 75 and rent it. We're talking about a lot of on-paper specs here but there's no replacement for actually shooting the guns and I think that's where you'll see why people are so crazy about their CZs.
I would like to find a range that rents a CZ but haven't had any luck finding one yet. I'm in South Dakota so my options are somewhat limited. I haven't even found a gun store yet with one that I can handle.
Or just, you know, practice with the DA/SA and perhaps even take an extra .1 second on the first pull and then for the next 11-31 trigger pulls enjoy a wonderful SA pull in a gun that shoots so well it feels like you're cheating compared to some plastic pistol. I've shot competitively with an M&P Pro modified to the limit of the USPSA Production rules, and a Glock 34 modified similarly and neither of them can hold a candle to my SP-01 Shadow for the same use, even with the DA/SA trigger in the Shadow.
I have had all of those guns, but have sold the M&P. The CZ-75 SP01 needs trigger work immediately, but will then have the lightest DA trigger pull of the different DA/SA guns I have shot. It is fully accurate. It is narrower than the Sig. Classic sigs need trigger work, but out of the box are better than the other two guns. You can tremendously lighten the DA pull by changing the hammer spring.
I mostly shoot an Sig X5 Allround, which is super accurate and has no recoil in 9mm. It just came back from Gray Guns, and had the Competition action work done. The trigger is now super smooth, but still heavier than the CZ.
The M&P has a terrible trigger out of the box, but with a 25 cent trigger job it will probably be pretty good. Being light, it is fast to draw but has noticeably more recoil than the metal guns you are considering.
If you have medium to small hands, I would go with the CZ but plan on buying a Custom Shop model, or doing the action work. If you want to save money, buy the M&P and do most of the action work yourself. I did put in the Apex parts into two M&P pistols, which helped a lot. However the Sig trigger is smoother out of the box than the M&P was after the Apex parts were installed. However a 25 cent trigger job would probably work wonders.
If I was going to buy a plastic gun, I would go with the new Sig P320 or the CZ P-09. The CZ holds 19 rounds. The P320 has a much better trigger than the P-09, from what I have been told. Actually I have heard it has a fantastic trigger for an out of the box plastic gun. These are both reported to have very light recoil, probably much less than the M&P. That is a big advantage during a training class shooting 600 rounds a day.
Basically if you have large hands, I would go with the SIG. If your hands are medium or small, I recommend the CZ SP-01. My CZ shadow did develop an extraction issue in the middle of a match, and I had to drop out. The Sigs have never let me down.
I mostly shoot an Sig X5 Allround, which is super accurate and has no recoil in 9mm. It just came back from Gray Guns, and had the Competition action work done. The trigger is now super smooth, but still heavier than the CZ.
The M&P has a terrible trigger out of the box, but with a 25 cent trigger job it will probably be pretty good. Being light, it is fast to draw but has noticeably more recoil than the metal guns you are considering.
If you have medium to small hands, I would go with the CZ but plan on buying a Custom Shop model, or doing the action work. If you want to save money, buy the M&P and do most of the action work yourself. I did put in the Apex parts into two M&P pistols, which helped a lot. However the Sig trigger is smoother out of the box than the M&P was after the Apex parts were installed. However a 25 cent trigger job would probably work wonders.
If I was going to buy a plastic gun, I would go with the new Sig P320 or the CZ P-09. The CZ holds 19 rounds. The P320 has a much better trigger than the P-09, from what I have been told. Actually I have heard it has a fantastic trigger for an out of the box plastic gun. These are both reported to have very light recoil, probably much less than the M&P. That is a big advantage during a training class shooting 600 rounds a day.
Basically if you have large hands, I would go with the SIG. If your hands are medium or small, I recommend the CZ SP-01. My CZ shadow did develop an extraction issue in the middle of a match, and I had to drop out. The Sigs have never let me down.
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I put an Apex Competition Kit in an early M&P45. It is very light and has no perceptible reset with it installed. I never installed the full Apex kit in either my two Pros or CORE. I sent one Pro frame to Kustom Ballistics in Indiana and he did a great trigger with stock parts that I actually like a lot better than Apex. The Pro has what S&W calls the "hard sear" and it is as good IMHO as the Apex. I am using the Apex striker safety plunger but with a little work you could do the same polish and rounding of edges that they do. And there would be no cost. The new M&Ps (back to around Jan 2013) have the newest trigger setup. They have a tactile and audible reset and seem to be somewhat smoother than the original.
But, most of all, your point about the $600 for ammo is the best. That ammo will improve your shooting more than just about any pistol.
I would take a hard look at the 5" Walther PPQ. Of those listed, I would see which you prefer between CZ and Sig. I find the CZ is easier to shoot well off the bat and would recommend the Shadow variant of the SP-01
I shot the M&P 9mm in IDPA for about a year with the factory trigger worn in, no problem in general.....it would seem to me as a good gun to start with.....not to expensive and with the different size grip inserts you should find one to acomodate your hands.....good luck!
All great choices. Since you are choosing range/competition work, I would consider rate the CZ the highest. As someone else said, look into the SP-01 Shadows to drop the firing pin block get a smooth trigger. Also--don't get a decocker variant, get a manual safety. Makes for a better trigger.
You should also consider your preference for a DA/SA trigger vs. a striker fired trigger. In some competition environments (e.g., USPSA Production), you will have to shoot your first shot in DA with the CZ and Sig and some people hate that. With the striker fired gun, you have the same trigger pull every time.
You should also consider your preference for a DA/SA trigger vs. a striker fired trigger. In some competition environments (e.g., USPSA Production), you will have to shoot your first shot in DA with the CZ and Sig and some people hate that. With the striker fired gun, you have the same trigger pull every time.
Striker Fired 9mm w/very good OTB trigger and a 5" barrel... Have you considered the Walther PPQ?
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