Simple Weather, Ranging, Ballistics Solution

[leendertp]

I am looking for a reasonable all round solution for the above.

Currently I hunt mostly with my dad or friends. Our normal solution is a decent rangefinder and rifles with written down dope and thumb suck wind. Generally we would re-confirm it in the mornings if there's a range or something available but this is pretty optional.

This system has worked well and it definately not novel but it is fast. Can normally shoot in seconds if needed.

Where we hunt shots can easily be 500m and very seldom less than 200 and it can be pretty windy and there are significant temperature swings and it is at a different altitude to where I live and the range where we would shoot mostly. I am not sure if this matters, but there is almost never mobile reception, and there are normally at least 2 rifles.

Now I know there are AB's and Kestels and Fury's and all kinds of things but my reason for this post is it seems like there is quite a bit of overlap between functionality and If I wanted to replace my piece of paper on the scope or the stock would anything here give me as good or better a solution as fast?

A simple solution seems to be just a rangefinder with the AB Lite or whatever since that goes to 700m but I do like the idea of the weather being taken into account, and something to give a wind suggestion would also be nice.

Thank you for your help.

 

[pmclaine]

I have a cheap ass Bushnell Conx rangefinder paired with a Kestrel that I have tried to put my best gun data into and I will tweak its findings to real world experience.

I only shoot targets mostly to 300 yards but have done enough at longer distances to know my Kestrel will give me good data to be within hunting acceptability MOA on the targets I shoot either paper or plates.

I’m into the whole set up for less than $600 by buying lovingly used in the PX.

 

[leendertp]

I have a cheap ass Bushnell Conx rangefinder paired with a Kestrel that I have tried to put my best gun data into and I will tweak its findings to real world experience.

I only shoot targets mostly to 300 yards but have done enough at longer distances to know my Kestrel will give me good data to be within hunting acceptability MOA on the targets I shoot either paper or plates.

I’m into the whole set up for less than $600 by buying lovingly used in the PX.

Please excuse my ignorance but how do you use it.

So you range the buck, and put that in the kestrel or do they bluetooth? Do you use it for wind?

 

[Zak Smith]

Do some experiments to 500 yards and see what "environmental change" has to happen to actually change your data in a material day-- it's a lot.

Have your wind on your dope card for a 10mph cross and then reduce or increase it proportionally to the actual wind.

If you are at a stationary location you should have all landmarks pre-ranged anyway.

 

[leendertp]

Do some experiments to 500 yards and see what "environmental change" has to happen to actually change your data in a material day-- it's a lot.

Sure. Happy for a solution where I check it in the morning or whatever.

Have your wind on your dope card for a 10mph cross and then reduce or increase it proportionally to the actual wind.

I normally have 10 and 20.

If you are at a stationary location you should have all landmarks pre-ranged anyway.

Not sure what you mean. The area is huge.

 

[pmclaine]

Please excuse my ignorance but how do you use it.

So you range the buck, and put that in the kestrel or do they bluetooth? Do you use it for wind?

I range static targets but I could see it being used for a deer.

In your case Id prefer a range finder with some sort of built in AB.

Way I use mine.

1. Enter my rifle from the library.

2. Set weather stats. Doubt you will be swinging the Kestrel over your head to “zero” it.

3.Take wind read.

4. Take a shot with the Bluetooth Conx and solution shows in Kestrel window.

Seldom is it much off, if any, from my developed drop charts.

It’s good tools when in unfamiliar situations but if you shoot and develop data your simple drop chart written on your stock somewhere will work. Especially where your desired target is an 8-10 MOA acceptable zone.

Wind is always the variable factor. My experience in the northeast with sheltered shooting lanes is it’s not as much of a factor.

If you live in Wyoming I guess the solution is aim at the animal way left or right of the one you want to hit.

Shooting prairie dogs I see the value of technology. Shooting meat animals where time and movement are compressed your technology has to be as fast and you likely had better have the solution written on your stock ready to go because you did the range time.

Disclaimer…..I am not a Hunter so I am full of shit.

 

[leendertp]

I range static targets but I could see it being used for a deer.

In your case Id prefer a range finder with some sort of built in AB.

Way I use mine.

1. Enter my rifle from the library.

2. Set weather stats. Doubt you will be swinging the Kestrel over your head to “zero” it.

3.Take wind read.

4. Take a shot with the Bluetooth Conx and solution shows in Kestrel window.

Seldom is it much off, if any, from my developed drop charts.

It’s good tools when in unfamiliar situations but if you shoot and develop data your simple drop chart written on your stock somewhere will work. Especially where your desired target is an 8-10 MOA acceptable zone.

Wind is always the variable factor. My experience in the northeast with sheltered shooting lanes is it’s not as much of a factor.

If you live in Wyoming I guess the solution is aim at the animal way left or right of the one you want to hit.

Shooting prairie dogs I see the value of technology. Shooting meat animals where time and movement are compressed your technology has to be as fast and you likely had better have the solution written on your stock ready to go because you did the range time.

Disclaimer…..I am not a Hunter so I am full of shit.

So hypothetically hunting now..

1. Kestrel the start of day, Bluetooth that onto a rangefinder? Then range a target with that rangefinder when it's time. No wind but seems reasonable.

2. If your Kestrel could be ready at all times so to speak, pointed correctly etc. Then as a target is ranged, that gets sent to the Kestrel which can then give wind and drop.

Are those possible?

 

[pmclaine]

My RF is dumb, although it does seem to have an AB feature somewhere.

Hasnt concerned me as I only use it to tell Kestrel what the distance is. Kestrel does the rest.

I’m thinking you have the comm path backwards - RF talk to Kestrel - Kestrel gives me info.

There are RF out there with distance, AB and some weather in them. I think Revic is coming out or has a scope that does it.

 

[pmclaine]

So hypothetically hunting now..

2. If your Kestrel could be ready at all times so to speak, pointed correctly etc. Then as a target is ranged, that gets sent to the Kestrel which can then give wind and drop.

Are those possible?

If you were in a stand and wanted to run your Kestrel live on a wind vane and you updated your data with a range shot from the RF I could see that being the case.

You will get better info from hunters.

I just sit at known distances and shoot non edible stuff.

 

[stanley_white]

Simple for me is a an iPhone app called My Altitude for environmental data, a Kestrel 1000 for wind only data, Hornady 4DOF on my iPhone for ballistic solutions, and the least expensive Vortex brand rangefinder listed on their website.

-Stan

 

[leendertp]

Simple for me is a an iPhone app called My Altitude for environmental data, a Kestrel 1000 for wind only data, Hornady 4DOF on my iPhone for ballistic solutions, and the least expensive Vortex brand rangefinder listed on their website.

-Stan

That's basically my old solution, I just used geoballistics, print, past on scope. Memorise. Call distance, turn, educated guess wind, bang. Have a Caldwell wind meter, don't really use.

 

[carbonbased]

First off, I’d call myself a varmint shooter, not a big game hunter.

I didn’t catch your scope of choice but I think a FFP scope might suit you well unless you are often in dark forests. If you use SFP, train yourself to keep it at the proper mag that the reticle was designed around (or half that). Otherwise your holds will be off.

BEFORE THE HUNT
Weather:
As someone else said, not going to make much of a difference. I think. But do run the numbers.

Altitude:
More of a difference. Not sure it’ll matter that much out to only 500yds.

The Effects Of Temperature and Altitude In Long Range Shooting

In this article, we explore the effects of temperature and altitude on compensation for bullet drop in long range shooting. We present the science and mechanisms behind the various effects and behavors as well as some "rule of thumb" tricks that can be learned for quick compensation in the field.

www.gunwerks.com

I don’t have experience hunting in the mountains. More of a pdog shooter. But getting your gun on target fast is paramount for both of us.

Prepare dope:
If I were you, I’d calculate my range cards for different weather/altitudes and buy this plus some spare cards they sell:

Cheat Sheet V2 | Cole-TAC Outdoor Gear

The Cheat Sheet from Cole-TAC offers the perfect way to keep your important data in clear view. By mounting the Cheat Sheet directly to your scope, you can easily see your DOPE without having to break your position. This simple but effective design works on all optics and can be…

www.cole-tac.com

Learn the gun MPH/weaponized math (now called Gravity Ballistics).

Look into the difference in dope that shooting up/down makes. IIRC, it takes a fair bit of degrees to make a difference, especially only out to 500.

More dope subtlety: Elevation (aerodynamic jump):
Use a ballistic program to see the difference in elevation adjustments with a left—>right wind vs a left<—right. Make sure that aerodynamic jump is turned on in the app.

In my case, the .204 has quite a bit of change. Larger calibers and more aerodynamic bullets have less difference.

Wind estimating:
Use the wind meter you own or whatever and carry it around all of the time around town etc to test yourself on your wind calls.

Because, especially in the mountains, the wind where you are vs. the target might vary a lot. So whipping out a Kestrel while in sight of an elk seems sorta foolhardy if you’ve trained yourself to guesstimate wind at your position. You’re never going to know the wind at the target anyway until we get some fancy LiDAR wind-ranging RF.

Wind calls:
Study @Jack Master ’s wind rose to calculate a full-value wind call from, say, a 5 o’clock wind. Make a weather resistant version for the field.

Ranging:
I think either having a small monocular LRF or that plus a LRF bino would be nice. The little monocular LRF could be kept somewhere handy to whip out fast.



IN THE FIELD
Weather/Altitude:
You’re already going to know this info on the day of the hunt, right? Close enough at least. Bring along your pre-built dope cards and stick the most likely used scenario on your rifle using the Coletac-type dope holder.

You could bring a wind meter along to test yourself some more.

Shooting:
Range using monocular or bino, estimate wind, calc full-value in your head or glance at the wind rose, look at your dope card stuck on rifle, hold for elevation and wind, shoot.

Or dial for elevation. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[chevy_man]

I run the weather and import it into my solver when I get out of the truck in the morning, or after any drastic changes (sun came up and it's now 40* warmer, cold front brought snow and it's dropped 50* and humidity came up 50%, etc).

If I'm shooting past 200, I have plenty of time to range it, check chart, and send one.

 

[leendertp]

@carbonbased, wow thanks for all that trouble.

That's definitely a more sophisticated version of my current system.

The aero dynamic jump is definitely something I have worried about. For my 308 the 500m hold can change from 2.8mil to 3.3mil that's a 25cm difference which is huge, according to geoballistics atleast.

In the absence of an easier, maybe knowing the range and then interpolating given the wind direction is a useful system.

 

[carbonbased]

@carbonbased, wow thanks for all that trouble.

That's definitely a more sophisticated version of my current system.

The aero dynamic jump is definitely something I have worried about. For my 308 the 500m hold can change from 2.8mil to 3.3mil that's a 25cm difference which is huge, according to geoballistics atleast.

In the absence of an easier, maybe knowing the range and then interpolating given the wind direction is a useful system.

You might want to consider a Tremor 3 reticle.

I have mocked the T3 reticle in the past, but a couple of military fellows recently convinced me that for some targets, it sure is faster. Like coyote-sized or larger.

I don’t own a T3-equipped scope as I don’t think it would be ideal for pdog use. The big dots cover up a 3” diameter circle at 400yds. Obviously, it only gets worse the further you go out. And I do hate the clutter in T3.

But, using the Horus reticle simulator and goofing off, I can see how it would shave some serious time off my shooting sequence.

The short version is you take your G1 BC number (pretend it’s 0.456), take the first number and that’s your Gun MPH number.

With this 4mph gun, look at the Tremor 3 wind dots. Each dot is 4mph of wind. The lines/hash marks in the T3 are 0.2 mrads each, and the dots are the wind holds.

In action:

Above the main horizontal there’s ranging stuff and numbers for helping you hit movers, so ignore that.

Here’s their reticle simulator: https://www.horusvision.com/reticle-simulator/

A chart I made to figure out how much the big dots in the T3 cover up:

Range	0.2 mil T3 big dot coverage (more exact)	T3 big dot coverage (rough)
100	0.72”	3/4”
200	1.44”	1.5”
300	2.16”	2”
400	2.88”	3”
500	3.60”	3.5”
600	4.32”	4.25”
700	5.04”	5”
800	5.76”	5.75”
900	6.48”	6.5”
1000	7.20”	7.25”
1100	7.92”	8”

(accuracy confirmed by @Jack Master)

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[JR1200W3]

I am looking for a reasonable all round solution for the above.

Currently I hunt mostly with my dad or friends. Our normal solution is a decent rangefinder and rifles with written down dope and thumb suck wind. Generally we would re-confirm it in the mornings if there's a range or something available but this is pretty optional.

This system has worked well and it definately not novel but it is fast. Can normally shoot in seconds if needed.

Where we hunt shots can easily be 500m and very seldom less than 200 and it can be pretty windy and there are significant temperature swings and it is at a different altitude to where I live and the range where we would shoot mostly. I am not sure if this matters, but there is almost never mobile reception, and there are normally at least 2 rifles.

Now I know there are AB's and Kestels and Fury's and all kinds of things but my reason for this post is it seems like there is quite a bit of overlap between functionality and If I wanted to replace my piece of paper on the scope or the stock would anything here give me as good or better a solution as fast?

A simple solution seems to be just a rangefinder with the AB Lite or whatever since that goes to 700m but I do like the idea of the weather being taken into account, and something to give a wind suggestion would also be nice.

Thank you for your help.

Buy a LRF like a Fury, an AB enabled ballistic solver like their app, a 5700, or 701, and a decent chronograph like a Magneto Speed, Labradar or Garmin Xero. Accurate ranges+accurate MV's + quality ballistic solvers = hits on target.

 

[leendertp]

Buy a LRF like a Fury, an AB enabled ballistic solver like their app, a 5700, or 701, and a decent chronograph like a Magneto Speed, Labradar or Garmin Xero. Accurate ranges+accurate MV's + quality ballistic solvers = hits on target.

Already do velocities and trued BC's, thats fine. But I think the simplest solution is probably putting those in a fury with AB as you say and then probably just a wind meter. Doesnt have to be fancy, put the number in the fury if it is needed.

That should be quick and plenty accurate.

 

[Maelstrom]

I use the same Bushnell CONX as @pmclaine. I was hunting Monday using both the rangefinder and my Kestral 5700 Sportsman that came as a package with the CONX rangefinder. I had a couple deer come out and placed the rangefinder on my scope cap facing the deer. Using the rangefinder with a gun profile that I had previously created on the Kestral ballistics app I take a range and a second later I have the elevation and wind corrections for the shot. I was playing with it for about 40 minutes watching the deer from 314 yards to as close as 43 yards. As long as the data in the gun profile is accurate I have had no issues making shots out to just under 700 yards (my longest shot to date not on a static range). With any of these systems good info in good info out. Trash info in trash info out. I am considering the Vortex Fury AB binoculars to eventually replace the CONX rangefinder. The only reason to upgrade is to not have to carry a rangefinder and binoculars and it would upgrade my cheap binoculars I currently have.