Simulated Long Range

[Will273]

Is there a way to simulate long range target shooting? My problem is I have a CO2 .177cal pellet rifle...an M14 semiauto air rifle which shoots at 700FPS. Very cool looking gun and hold 16 rounds. I can get 1 to 2 inch groups from 10 yds to 20yds and shoot through coke cans at 75 ft...basically a backyard plinker.

I've heard of simulating long range shots and wondered if it's possible what size or how big should a target be at say about 50 ft and what sort of range would that simulate if I used a proper sized target? After about 75 feet the accuracy drops to much so I'd like to keep it about 50 to 60 ft if possible. Also the rifle will not take a scope so I'm limited to the iron sights that come with the gun...windage and elevation sights are pretty precise...without a scope I'm limited to about that range anyway. Any advice?

 

[mattj]

Re: Simulated Long Range

You can shoot small targets and a shorter distance to to 'simulate' larger targets at a long distance -- and airguns are good practice for trigger control and follow through... (the math there is not hard, you'll figure it out).

...but don't kid yourself that you'd be realistically simulating or preparing yourself or doing anything remotely similar to 'real' long range shooting.

If you're going to practice in the backyard, practice various traditional and improvised shooting positions, transitions between different targets, and other skills that translate to the backyard better than 'simulated long range' -- much better use of your time.

 

[Will273]

Re: Simulated Long Range


Right...I'm very aware simulating a long range shot at 50ft or so isn't like a real long range shot...just trying to make a short range shot alittle more interesting. The different positions would be good like you mentioned as the transitions to different targets too. Thanks mattj!

 

[Driftwood]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Simulated Target Height = SH
Simulated Range = SR
Actual Target Height = AH
Actual Range = AR

SH/SR = AH/AR

Simulated Target Height = 72"
Simulated Range = 3000 Ft
Actual Target Height = X
Actual Range = 50ft

72/3000 = X/50

X = 1.2 inches

So at 50 feet a 1.2" target would have the proportional size of a 72" target at 3000 feet or 1000 yards.

As has been pointed out, it’s not anywhere close to actually shooting a 72" target at 1,000 yards but the proportions are the same and that is what you were asking about.

 

[JoeZ]

Re: Simulated Long Range


If I may.

Consider the simulation as a matter of scale, i.e., 1 to 3, or 1 to 4 (I use this with 22s), or in this case I think 1 in 10 suits.
Using a 1 to 10 ratio, every 10 yards simulates 100 yards and every inch simulates 10 inches. A 20" target (roughly man sized) would be 2 inches. Placed at 10 yards it would seem to be 100 yards off. Placed at 30 yds it would seem 300 yds off.

Now plug your caliber specifics into JBM ballistics. I used a .177 cal pointed nose (BC of .020) with a velocity of 700 fps and I assumed a scope with 2.5" height over bore and a 30 yard zero. Also plug in 10 yd increments and a 100 yd maximum.With the zero nearly simulating an M14 BSZ you will need 2.6 moa come ups to get to 40 yds and and additional 3.7 moa come-ups to hit at 50 yds which is pretty close to the come-ups for a 308 (simulated of course). For a 5 mph full value wind it shows you'll need to correct .8 moa at 30 yds, 1.5 moa at 40 yds and 2.5 moa for 50 yds. The elevation and windage correction needed for you to hit at 100 yds (simulating 1000) is a whopping 36 moa and 12.8 moa respectively! Taken out far enough, a simulator is long range shooting.
JoeZ

 

[Will273]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Driftwood...thanks very much for your detailed reply...just what I was looking for.

 

[Will273]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Thanks very much JoeZ...helps alot!

 

[mtorment]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Hate math but this might actually be worth it...thanks.

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: Simulated Long Range

My son and I shoot .177 cal pellets often at 100 yards. It seems similar to shooting a .308 at 800 yards. Or shooting a .22 at 300 yards. Same principal.

Ditto on some of the comments above.

 

[steve123]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Hi Will,

One of my favorite things to do in life is sit down and plink with a good precision air rifle. Just yesterday I was plinking with a spring piston pellet rifle called a Air Arms TX200 with a Bushnell 6-24 scope. I hadn't shot this particular rifle in a long time and forgot how accurate and capable a 12 ftlb springer can be. The airgun scaled metallic silhouette turkeys and pigs were pretty easy to hit at 50Y. They are approximately one inch to a inch and a half. I'm writing this so you will understand what a good air rifle will do.

Sounds like you are little restricted right now with the accuracy your current air rifle. Another problem is with the CO2 which is affected by temperature causing vertical shifting.

I'd concentrate my efforts within the average accuracy you are achieving at each specific distance you want to shoot at. Example, so in your case maybe 1"? at 10Y, 1.5"? at 15Y and so on. Give yourself a little wiggle room. It's much more fun to hit rather than miss!

There are a few things that will be fun for you to learn also.

1. Trajectory.

It would be good idea to right down the number of clicks and/or marks on the rear sight at each distance. Hopefully the sights are repeatable. If they are repeatable you aren't as restricted by distance as you might think! Just shoot at the appropriate sized targets for that distance.

2. Wind drift.

Pellets blow a lot in the wind which of course introduces a variable and thus a challenge to overcome making things more fun. The farther away the target is the more the pellet will blow so you will have to learn to dial windage as necessary or learn to holdoff . It might be fun for you to put some strips of torn cloth tied to objects to get an idea of where the wind is coming from and the intensity of it.

3. Develop good form. With the emphasis on comfort and of equal importance "follow through".

The most important thing is to just have fun and make due with what you have!

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Simulated Long Range

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/844147/crosman-metal-silhouette-airgun-pellet-targets-package-of-4

These can be fun.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Simulated Long Range

Dum dum lollipops make fabulous targets.

 

[persistant7500]

Re: Simulated Long Range

I coach air rifle and small bore shooting at the national and pre-olympic level. A 1 or 2 inch group at 10 to 20 meters isn't even in the range of making things interesting. I want you to bear in mind on strictly an angular level a 1" group at 10yds is the equivalent of 10" at 100. Almost all here would consider that as slingshot accuracy, I would love to hear of you taking the time to study the principles of shooting and come back in a month or 2 and tell me that group is now a jagged hole with 10 shots at 10yds. An air rifle is a mighty fine training device that will teach you the fundamentals and fine tune your technique by simple fact of muzzle velocity. You need to spend your time each day you shoot focusing one a single aspect of precision shooting. Remember that you don't want to practice until you can do it right, you want to practice until you can't do it wrong. Spend some time thinking on that one line and you will go very far in your shooting career. Jeff

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: Simulated Long Range

I read an article a few years ago by A South African I can't remember who. He had a mathmatician figure out how many yards away a 9mm casing had to be to represent a 1000 yards. I believe it ended up being 25yards.

What I did and it was reactive and I had a blast shooting with my Air Rifle. I took two form stakes and tied a sting across them and then drilled some 9mm cases and hung them on that string and everytime I made a solid it they would wrap around the main string. Poor hits would make hem swing side ways. I also put a card board back stop up so that I could get a reading on my shot placement when I missed.

 

[Driftwood]

Re: Simulated Long Range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trapshooter12</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read an article a few years ago by A South African I can't remember who. He had a mathmatician figure out how many yards away a 9mm casing had to be to represent a 1000 yards. I believe it ended up being 25yards. </div></div>

I am not a mathematician, but its all proportional so the formula I quoted above would work for a 9mm casing as well. Checking the dimensions of a 9mm case, show that it is 19.15mm or .7539” in length, so

SH/SR =AH/AR
SH / 1000 = .754/AR

To work the problem we need one more of the variables, as you didn’t give either the simulated height or the actual range.

If we go with placing the 9mm shell casing at 25 yards as you suggested, then the simulated height at 1000 yards would be 30”
SH”/1000 Yards = .754”/ 25 yards
SH = 30.16”

If you wanted to know how far to place that same shell casing to simulate a 72” target at 1000 yards, then you would just plug in the appropriate numbers and solve the equation:

SH/SR=AH/AR
72”/ 1000 Yards = .754/ AR
AR = 10.47 Yards

To simulate a 10.47” or 1 MOA at 1000 yards the problem would be:

10.47” /1000 yards = .754/ AR
AR = 72 yards