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Re: Single Stage Press Advice
What seating die do you use?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well,
I just got off the blower with Pat. Nothing wrong with the press according to him. Hrm........
</div></div>
What seating die do you use?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well,
I just got off the blower with Pat. Nothing wrong with the press according to him. Hrm........
</div></div>
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I had a chance to put a dial indicator on the rams of a Lee Classic Turret Press and a Rock Chucker Supreme single stage press. The RCS showed a little less than .001 movement on the ram and the Lee Classic Turret showed exactly .001 movement. The ram in both presses have no play through their entire range of movement. The RCS is 8 or 9 years old and the Lee is about 3 years old.
I had a chance to put a dial indicator on the rams of a Lee Classic Turret Press and a Rock Chucker Supreme single stage press. The RCS showed a little less than .001 movement on the ram and the Lee Classic Turret showed exactly .001 movement. The ram in both presses have no play through their entire range of movement. The RCS is 8 or 9 years old and the Lee is about 3 years old.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">8,
Are these the two presses that consistently give you low run out as measured on the Sinclair Gauge? Thanks!</div></div>
Not on a Sinclair gauge but yes.
ETA: I've never checked the run out loading on the Lee Turret press. I use it primarily for loading pistol and 223.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">8,
Are these the two presses that consistently give you low run out as measured on the Sinclair Gauge? Thanks!</div></div>
Not on a Sinclair gauge but yes.
ETA: I've never checked the run out loading on the Lee Turret press. I use it primarily for loading pistol and 223.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I have the Forrester but the lever will not let you use the very long expensive competition dies. You are kind of stuck with standard dies.
I have the Forrester but the lever will not let you use the very long expensive competition dies. You are kind of stuck with standard dies.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
The current model Co-Ax has a larger handle yoke, and will clear any die.
The previous version will work with all Forster dies, which have the same internal design as the Redding Competition seaters. With or without the micrometer adjustment, Forster dies have the same internals (bullet/cartridge alignment sleeve).
Andy
The current model Co-Ax has a larger handle yoke, and will clear any die.
The previous version will work with all Forster dies, which have the same internal design as the Redding Competition seaters. With or without the micrometer adjustment, Forster dies have the same internals (bullet/cartridge alignment sleeve).
Andy
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I can load sub moa ammo with an old Rockchucker and plain RCBS dies for $50 surplus rifles.
I like the Co-ax, Forster dies, and Lee collet dies, but that does not mean they are necessary, it just means I like them best.
It is much cheaper for me to buy luxury load equipment than luxury aircraft or hunting ranches.
P.S. My Redding "S" dies look like jewelry, but suck in controlled performance comparisons.
I can load sub moa ammo with an old Rockchucker and plain RCBS dies for $50 surplus rifles.
I like the Co-ax, Forster dies, and Lee collet dies, but that does not mean they are necessary, it just means I like them best.
It is much cheaper for me to buy luxury load equipment than luxury aircraft or hunting ranches.
P.S. My Redding "S" dies look like jewelry, but suck in controlled performance comparisons.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Redding "S" dies look like jewelry, but suck in controlled performance comparisons. </div></div>
Have you made inquiries of Redding? Do you have any compliance adjusted into the bushings?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Redding "S" dies look like jewelry, but suck in controlled performance comparisons. </div></div>
Have you made inquiries of Redding? Do you have any compliance adjusted into the bushings?
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I have never corresponded with Redding.
One reason is that until recently, "Redding Dies" Google search just got obituaries.
I have tried the bushing mounted compliantly, and non compliantly.
The bushing mounted with translation compliance but not much pitch or yaw compliance does the best.
The brass that comes out of tight neck chambers with turned necks is sized by "S" dies so well, it is hard to tell if from Lee Collet neck results.
But brass that comes out of factory chambers and/or with brass that has some runout of neck wall thickness, gets eccentric with "S" dies.
Usually I am all wound up evaluating loads or rifles.
But to compare dies, I gave each die a population of brass, and shot it and loaded it again and again.
Generally, firing in the chamber straightens out brass, and sizing bends the necks. The exception is the Lee Collet neck die makes the inside of the neck MORE concentric than when it came out of the chamber.
One odd thing I learned was that brass length growth of a piece of brass sized by two dies a few seconds apart, is dependent on which die was first.
A Forster FL die and then a Redding FL "S" die makes less growth than the same piece of brass after firing and then with the Redding then the Forster.
I have never corresponded with Redding.
One reason is that until recently, "Redding Dies" Google search just got obituaries.
I have tried the bushing mounted compliantly, and non compliantly.
The bushing mounted with translation compliance but not much pitch or yaw compliance does the best.
The brass that comes out of tight neck chambers with turned necks is sized by "S" dies so well, it is hard to tell if from Lee Collet neck results.
But brass that comes out of factory chambers and/or with brass that has some runout of neck wall thickness, gets eccentric with "S" dies.
Usually I am all wound up evaluating loads or rifles.
But to compare dies, I gave each die a population of brass, and shot it and loaded it again and again.
Generally, firing in the chamber straightens out brass, and sizing bends the necks. The exception is the Lee Collet neck die makes the inside of the neck MORE concentric than when it came out of the chamber.
One odd thing I learned was that brass length growth of a piece of brass sized by two dies a few seconds apart, is dependent on which die was first.
A Forster FL die and then a Redding FL "S" die makes less growth than the same piece of brass after firing and then with the Redding then the Forster.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got back from my friend's place and we made a trip to Cabela's. He showed me the issue he had with his RC Supreme (before he returned it) on the floor model there. When you raise the ram to the top, as the press over-cams (you can feel it do it too), the ram deflects. This is VERY visible when looking from the side, but even more so when looking down through the top. You can see the ram tilt forward and come back.
Doesn't happen on his Big Boss or Co-Ax, but it unfortunately does on the Hornady LnL AP I picked up while we were there. Its going back...
Let me clarify this: the ram is not bending, its tilting within the slop of the hole it passes through. </div></div>
Komb,
I just looked at my Redding BOSS (and Winchester chime in here if you are reading this).
When I come up against the stop pins (the roll pins) my ram deflects just like the RCBS press you got video of. It deflects towards the 12 o'clock position.
Something worth having Redding check out ?
</div></div>
Its the nature of that style of press because the lever handle is connected off to one side. This means that when you load it, you are introducing torsion into the system. How that affects the ram depends on design and manufacturing tolerances of the press. In the new Rock Chuckers we looked had, the ram was tilting without any loading, it was happening just from over-caming. Most of that was the result of very sloppy machining and loose fits.
The design of the Co-Ax is unique, in that it will never introduce torsion no matter how hard you load it. Mechanically, its a superior design. It gives you many of the benefits of an arbor press, but with standard threaded dies.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got back from my friend's place and we made a trip to Cabela's. He showed me the issue he had with his RC Supreme (before he returned it) on the floor model there. When you raise the ram to the top, as the press over-cams (you can feel it do it too), the ram deflects. This is VERY visible when looking from the side, but even more so when looking down through the top. You can see the ram tilt forward and come back.
Doesn't happen on his Big Boss or Co-Ax, but it unfortunately does on the Hornady LnL AP I picked up while we were there. Its going back...
Let me clarify this: the ram is not bending, its tilting within the slop of the hole it passes through. </div></div>
Komb,
I just looked at my Redding BOSS (and Winchester chime in here if you are reading this).
When I come up against the stop pins (the roll pins) my ram deflects just like the RCBS press you got video of. It deflects towards the 12 o'clock position.
Something worth having Redding check out ?
</div></div>
Its the nature of that style of press because the lever handle is connected off to one side. This means that when you load it, you are introducing torsion into the system. How that affects the ram depends on design and manufacturing tolerances of the press. In the new Rock Chuckers we looked had, the ram was tilting without any loading, it was happening just from over-caming. Most of that was the result of very sloppy machining and loose fits.
The design of the Co-Ax is unique, in that it will never introduce torsion no matter how hard you load it. Mechanically, its a superior design. It gives you many of the benefits of an arbor press, but with standard threaded dies.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
dave338, if your looking for a press for the bigger calibers take a look at RCE for the wallnut hill press. Richard Corbin started the company after he let his brother Dave's company as being the head designer. Richard makes a great press for the money and they have a ton of leverage as they are a swaging presses. They do take some time to get though(6 to 12 months).
dave338, if your looking for a press for the bigger calibers take a look at RCE for the wallnut hill press. Richard Corbin started the company after he let his brother Dave's company as being the head designer. Richard makes a great press for the money and they have a ton of leverage as they are a swaging presses. They do take some time to get though(6 to 12 months).
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">any one using the single station from ch4d, looks very very strong,? </div></div>
Yes, I have used one, and they are a tank.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">any one using the single station from ch4d, looks very very strong,? </div></div>
Yes, I have used one, and they are a tank.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
chad
ch4d sent a picture over but you cant really see much, hows the quality of the build, would you recomend one, also the corbin press looks good, cant find anything one the other one thats recommended above,
chad
ch4d sent a picture over but you cant really see much, hows the quality of the build, would you recomend one, also the corbin press looks good, cant find anything one the other one thats recommended above,
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
dave
here's a link to RCE If you decide to get a RCE you'll have to get the press stand to raise it off your bench or you'll be bending over to cam over the press. The ch4d is a good press also but you don't have the leverage you have with the RCE. Just for an example I can full length size 338 lapua by dropping the handle on the RCE(I have the dual handle kit so theres some weight).
dave
here's a link to RCE If you decide to get a RCE you'll have to get the press stand to raise it off your bench or you'll be bending over to cam over the press. The ch4d is a good press also but you don't have the leverage you have with the RCE. Just for an example I can full length size 338 lapua by dropping the handle on the RCE(I have the dual handle kit so theres some weight).
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
Dave,
Mine was the old style press, that was on a slight angle. The ram and die was not straight up and down, and was tilted back slightly. It was a good press, but you could not use a priming system that left the primer unsupported or it would slide off. Otherwise, it was a good press.
If I were starting new, I would get the Redding T-7. It is by far the best single stage type press I have used. Plus, the extra stations allow you to set up other dies and rotate them when you need them. Saves tons of time when switching calibers.
Dave,
Mine was the old style press, that was on a slight angle. The ram and die was not straight up and down, and was tilted back slightly. It was a good press, but you could not use a priming system that left the primer unsupported or it would slide off. Otherwise, it was a good press.
If I were starting new, I would get the Redding T-7. It is by far the best single stage type press I have used. Plus, the extra stations allow you to set up other dies and rotate them when you need them. Saves tons of time when switching calibers.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
cheers
Ive got a couple of presses but need to add a one for large cases and bmg
Got the t7 use that for most things , got a spare head for it
Need it for 50bmg to 460 steyr
Made a list of possibles
Ch4d
Possen warren
Corbin/rce
They all look good cant decide, if some one chimed in about the possen warrren would probably go with that , just for the reason its powered
Names in a hat i think !
cheers
Ive got a couple of presses but need to add a one for large cases and bmg
Got the t7 use that for most things , got a spare head for it
Need it for 50bmg to 460 steyr
Made a list of possibles
Ch4d
Possen warren
Corbin/rce
They all look good cant decide, if some one chimed in about the possen warrren would probably go with that , just for the reason its powered
Names in a hat i think !
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
If your not going to make your own 460 cases another good press for loading BMG is the hollywood turret press(looks like a oversized T7 with a 7inch stroke. It doesn't have near the leverage of the RCE but its a very nice press none the less. For BMG loading I size on my RCE and seat,prime,expand,and pull bullets on a hollywood. The problem with the RCE is when you want to seat longer solids you'll have to unscrew the seater die a little( I have m2 dies there not like a standard seating die) Api,ball and simular work fine.
I dont have any time on a warren press so I cant comment on it, but it looks like a decent press. (pm later I think he has used one)
If your not going to make your own 460 cases another good press for loading BMG is the hollywood turret press(looks like a oversized T7 with a 7inch stroke. It doesn't have near the leverage of the RCE but its a very nice press none the less. For BMG loading I size on my RCE and seat,prime,expand,and pull bullets on a hollywood. The problem with the RCE is when you want to seat longer solids you'll have to unscrew the seater die a little( I have m2 dies there not like a standard seating die) Api,ball and simular work fine.
I dont have any time on a warren press so I cant comment on it, but it looks like a decent press. (pm later I think he has used one)
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I've been using a Dillon RL550B since I started handloading close to two decades ago. While I can easily concede that with all stacking tolerances, etc., considered, the single stage press has less going on than the progressive; I still recommend the press I have, for the applications I favor.
If I were a BR shooter, I wouldn't.
I shoot F Class and was once deeply committed to High Power National Match Course.
It's my conclusion that for these disciplines, a SAAMI chamber spec is both adequately effective, and easier to load for. Consequently, I have also concluded that whatever deviations from the ideal a progressive press introduces into my ammunition are of negligible harm.
While many will feel that the only degree of ammunition fabrication quality that is acceptable is the highest achievable, I find that most of the ammunition I fabricate on my press performs, in my hands, at least as well ammunition from any other, presumably more precise, source.
I think it's very easily possible to take this stuff too seriously, and that reasonable diligence will thoroughly suffice. I also think that options and ease of use constitute more significant advantages than infinitesimally anal concentration on the smallest details.
The Dillon tool head, and the Hornady Lock-N-Load bushings, allow dies to be adjusted to a closely ideal degree, and then be kept at that ideal adjustment through separate loading sessions. The Dillon 550's manual advance allows some, or all, assembly stages to be performed in a manner which is functionally very similar to a single stage press' operation. Properly adjusted and operated; the shell plate and priming systems provide, at least for me, quite adequate 'feel' to determine factors and issues that are critical to good ammunition fabrication.
The Dillon powder measures are not ideal with stick powders, but I weigh all charges anyway, so this is not the detractor many might consider it to be.
I strongly urge consideration of the Dillon RL550B press.
Greg
I've been using a Dillon RL550B since I started handloading close to two decades ago. While I can easily concede that with all stacking tolerances, etc., considered, the single stage press has less going on than the progressive; I still recommend the press I have, for the applications I favor.
If I were a BR shooter, I wouldn't.
I shoot F Class and was once deeply committed to High Power National Match Course.
It's my conclusion that for these disciplines, a SAAMI chamber spec is both adequately effective, and easier to load for. Consequently, I have also concluded that whatever deviations from the ideal a progressive press introduces into my ammunition are of negligible harm.
While many will feel that the only degree of ammunition fabrication quality that is acceptable is the highest achievable, I find that most of the ammunition I fabricate on my press performs, in my hands, at least as well ammunition from any other, presumably more precise, source.
I think it's very easily possible to take this stuff too seriously, and that reasonable diligence will thoroughly suffice. I also think that options and ease of use constitute more significant advantages than infinitesimally anal concentration on the smallest details.
The Dillon tool head, and the Hornady Lock-N-Load bushings, allow dies to be adjusted to a closely ideal degree, and then be kept at that ideal adjustment through separate loading sessions. The Dillon 550's manual advance allows some, or all, assembly stages to be performed in a manner which is functionally very similar to a single stage press' operation. Properly adjusted and operated; the shell plate and priming systems provide, at least for me, quite adequate 'feel' to determine factors and issues that are critical to good ammunition fabrication.
The Dillon powder measures are not ideal with stick powders, but I weigh all charges anyway, so this is not the detractor many might consider it to be.
I strongly urge consideration of the Dillon RL550B press.
Greg
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
I have a Dillon 550B, an old RCBS Rockchucker, and a Redding T-7. The Dillon and Redding get the most use!
I have a Dillon 550B, an old RCBS Rockchucker, and a Redding T-7. The Dillon and Redding get the most use!
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
"Rock Crusher" is an <span style="font-style: italic">Old Western Scrounger</span> brand; to the best of my knowledge (which is limited), the press has been out of production for many years. CH4D makes the <span style="font-style: italic">Champion</span> and doesn't show a Rock Crusher as being available on its website. What's pictured would be excellent for 50 BMG, much better than the designs utilizing standoffs. The casting indicates that "Rock Crusher" is trademarked.
"Rock Crusher" is an <span style="font-style: italic">Old Western Scrounger</span> brand; to the best of my knowledge (which is limited), the press has been out of production for many years. CH4D makes the <span style="font-style: italic">Champion</span> and doesn't show a Rock Crusher as being available on its website. What's pictured would be excellent for 50 BMG, much better than the designs utilizing standoffs. The casting indicates that "Rock Crusher" is trademarked.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
GOSH!!
It does invite discussion at several points:
Inverse price elasticity and potential sales volume
The economics of low-volume casting
Shipping cost
The knurled handle
It looks like it's designed to cam over.
Most presses have rams that protrude through the base.
It's a beautiful press, but...the price point.
GOSH!!
It does invite discussion at several points:
Inverse price elasticity and potential sales volume
The economics of low-volume casting
Shipping cost
The knurled handle
It looks like it's designed to cam over.
Most presses have rams that protrude through the base.
It's a beautiful press, but...the price point.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
It means that the price is part of the attraction. A <span style="font-style: italic">distinctive product</span> may be designed to show that the owner can afford it. Jewelry and fur coats are such products. Luxury automobiles are another example. BMW's and Lexuses have excellent engineering and design, but those aren't the only reasons they're purchased.
Typically, demand increases as price decreases. That's known as price <span style="font-style: italic">elasticity</span>. When demand goes up as price increases, it's called <span style="font-style: italic">inverse elasticity</span>.
These are economics terms, but you may see them in your marketing course(s). Then again, education, like so many other things, ain't what it used to be. I was in school (again) in 2003 and couldn't believe the BS they were passing off. Porter's marketing strategy ideas completely ignore the most prevalent approach, catering to a niche market. Coke's great triumph was <span style="font-style: italic">New Coke</span>. IBM's failure was in not bringing the <span style="font-style: italic">PC Jr</span>. (essentially a game machine) to market. Have you been give Adam Smith's <span style="text-decoration: underline">The</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Wealth</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">of</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Nations</span> to read? I recommend it. You may even find the fatal flaw in Milton Friedman's monetaristic scheme.
It means that the price is part of the attraction. A <span style="font-style: italic">distinctive product</span> may be designed to show that the owner can afford it. Jewelry and fur coats are such products. Luxury automobiles are another example. BMW's and Lexuses have excellent engineering and design, but those aren't the only reasons they're purchased.
Typically, demand increases as price decreases. That's known as price <span style="font-style: italic">elasticity</span>. When demand goes up as price increases, it's called <span style="font-style: italic">inverse elasticity</span>.
These are economics terms, but you may see them in your marketing course(s). Then again, education, like so many other things, ain't what it used to be. I was in school (again) in 2003 and couldn't believe the BS they were passing off. Porter's marketing strategy ideas completely ignore the most prevalent approach, catering to a niche market. Coke's great triumph was <span style="font-style: italic">New Coke</span>. IBM's failure was in not bringing the <span style="font-style: italic">PC Jr</span>. (essentially a game machine) to market. Have you been give Adam Smith's <span style="text-decoration: underline">The</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Wealth</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">of</span> <span style="text-decoration: underline">Nations</span> to read? I recommend it. You may even find the fatal flaw in Milton Friedman's monetaristic scheme.
Re: Single Stage Press Advice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its the nature of that style of press because the lever handle is connected off to one side. This means that when you load it, you are introducing torsion into the system. How that affects the ram depends on design and manufacturing tolerances of the press. In the new Rock Chuckers we looked had, the ram was tilting without any loading, it was happening just from over-caming. Most of that was the result of very sloppy machining and loose fits.
The design of the Co-Ax is unique, in that it will never introduce torsion .. </div></div>
I heard rust crack!
What was that?
Oh, I know.. I learned something
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kombayotch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its the nature of that style of press because the lever handle is connected off to one side. This means that when you load it, you are introducing torsion into the system. How that affects the ram depends on design and manufacturing tolerances of the press. In the new Rock Chuckers we looked had, the ram was tilting without any loading, it was happening just from over-caming. Most of that was the result of very sloppy machining and loose fits.
The design of the Co-Ax is unique, in that it will never introduce torsion .. </div></div>
I heard rust crack!
What was that?
Oh, I know.. I learned something
