Single Stage Press Opinions

#51
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

Thanks for the replies. I agree with memilanuk that it doesn't have a lot to do with the press. That was what I was getting at: I can set it up to bump the shoulder, then measure the shoulder bump, and using either the CoAx or the Rockchucker or the Harrells I can't get a consistent shoulder bump. Depending on how I manipulate the handle, and the play or 'give' in the system (the press arm, or die threads, or the brass, or whatever), there appears to be a built-in inconsistency that I can't remedy by choosing a different press.
 
#54
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MedinaM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best load? </div></div>

Mine.
 
#55
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

Graham,

IME inconsistent shoulder bump is usually caused by brass that varies in hardness, inconsistent lube/no lube inside the neck (using expander balls), dirty necks or a combination of all.
 
#56
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MedinaM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best load? </div></div>

Mine. </div></div>

No mine.
 
#57
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham,

IME inconsistent shoulder bump is usually caused by brass that varies in hardness, inconsistent lube/no lube inside the neck (using expander balls), dirty necks or a combination of all. </div></div>

Hardness could be it. I use a Forster Co-ax and get very consistent headspace. I also anneal every time, which might impact my sizing towards the neck, though it should be roughly the same at the case head, which is not impacted by annealing.

Sounds like something you have to play around with. I was having concentricity issues until I figured out that I need to align the bullet up perfectly before seating. I don't know anyone else who has had such an issue, but for whatever reason, for me, I need to line up the bullet perfectly going into the seating die. Others are quite sloppy and get good results, which I can't explain.
 
#58
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

While covering the ground discussed in this thread, such a discussion would be incomplete without extolling the debatable value of camover and heavy contact between the shell holder and the die. One could conclude that this is another flaw in the Coax design.

However, one only has to look at the Bench Rest world for an example of just how meaningless camover is when it comes to loading accurate ammo. They all use an arbor press, which by design has no ability to produce camover.

Graham, I do not wish to be unduly hard on your for your response. I am however a big fan of empirical data, particularly as it applies to results specific to the task at hand, which in the context of this site is down range results, with as many other variables controlled and documented so that results can be tied to a single element in the experiment.

When it comes to instrumenting "results" with the Coax, I can tell you I do not own a device that measures runout and do not spend time checking my ammo for it. For the games I play with a center fire rifle, until I start not getting shots on call that I break correctly, I will spend no further time gathering information regarding my ammo quality than I do now.

Headspace variance is going to show up in two places - one, chambering difficulties, and two, brass life. Since I have trouble with neither using my Coax, I'm calling that one good, though again I have not spent time measuring this. Since most of my shooting is in gas guns, and that fact alone causes variance in brass stretch and work hardening, I would discard any datum-to-base data I get from the gas gun brass to begin with.

I most certainly see the value of instrumentation when it comes to shooting. Here is an example below of where I spend my time instrumenting things under my control.

(will add later)
 
#59
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jagged77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I asked whether one can size to a repeatable .002 on a CoAx. If you can, tell me how. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, because I've tried and I can't do it. </div></div>

I do get repeatable results, both in shoulder bumping and bullet seating. I can only tell you what I do / use:

Forster FL / Redding body dies
Imperial Wax
Anneal after every firing

I measure the shoulder dims with the RCBS Precision Mics and use the Hornady COAL kit for bullet seating. </div></div>

The above in one of the main reasons I like the Redding T-7. Regardless of your process, (FL size/or not/Wax/Lube/Anneal/or not) you can set up your die(s) correctly in the turret head and have them ready to go on the first case and not have to spend time getting them dialed in every time.

I load for multiple calibers and yet I always have the sizing die for whatever chamber I am loading for ready to go on the first stroke. It's very common to have the shoulder bump dead on what I want every time.

I also have a Rock Chucker and it's a good press. Loaded thousands of rounds, no issues. Just like the T-7 better.

From my experience, the run-out in loaded rounds comes a lot more from the brass quality (or prep), bullet style or neck dia of the sizing die than anything you would normally do with a press regardless of the brand.
 
#60
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

One other problem that hasn't been addressed, is that you will sometimes need an "eraser"...i.e., a bullet puller. For convenience in that, a "C" or ""O" press works better than the Coax. I love my Coax. I've had it for 30 years. But, I need another press for pulling bullets. I am beginning to be of two minds about this. The coax is accurate. It is convenient. But...since taking the advice to use an "O" ring between the dies and the press for sizing and seating...my Dillon 550 loads rounds with less (.000 to .0015)runout than the Coax. I may sell the Coax. One press may be enough. JMHO
 
#61
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jagged77</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I asked whether one can size to a repeatable .002 on a CoAx. If you can, tell me how. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, because I've tried and I can't do it. </div></div>

I do get repeatable results, both in shoulder bumping and bullet seating. I can only tell you what I do / use:

Forster FL / Redding body dies
Imperial Wax
Anneal after every firing

I measure the shoulder dims with the RCBS Precision Mics and use the Hornady COAL kit for bullet seating. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">The above in one of the main reasons I like the Redding T-7. Regardless of your process, (FL size/or not/Wax/Lube/Anneal/or not) you can set up your die(s) correctly in the turret head and have them ready to go on the first case and not have to spend time getting them dialed in every time.</span>

I load for multiple calibers and yet I always have the sizing die for whatever chamber I am loading for ready to go on the first stroke. It's very common to have the shoulder bump dead on what I want every time.
</div></div>

Not sure I follow you on this one, I don't think I was implying that I have to set up dies every time I use the press? What I described above was simply the formula I use to get good results, I don't believe for one bit that its the only way to get the Forster to perform and I do use variations on the theme. There is skill involved in setting any die / press combo up correctly, some however will offer better performance than others once set up to their potential.

With the Co-Ax once the dies are set they require no adjustment, all you do is simply slip them into the slot and they're good to go. I too load for multiple calibres (10+) plus different loads for the same calibres. Repeatability is not an issue.

 
#62
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

Why isn't there more love for the Redding Ultramag press??? It cost about the same as the Coax yet it's about 25-1 coax over ultramag. Why don't more of you like the Redding Ultramag press???????
 
#63
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why isn't there more love for the Redding Ultramag press??? It cost about the same as the Coax yet it's about 25-1 coax over ultramag. Why don't more of you like the Redding Ultramag press??????? </div></div>

I don't think it was ever "like" that was in question. The price has been a deciding factor. It has always been 100 bucks more than a Rock Chucker. It's size was really never needed till lately. I'm actually surprised Redding kept marketing it.
I bought my first RC for $62.00, and it came with a set of dies.
There never has been too many presses over $200.00, and until the co-ax and T-7 there wasn't much need for a big press with no frills.
Have you ever seen the "Big Max" press that RCBS used to sell. It at least had a universal shell holder, but it went by the wayside because of price.
 
#64
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

Don't waste years with a Rockchucker before getting a co-ax, like I did.

The co-ax may not be for everybody, but any high roller should at least try it up front, to avoid the possibility of wasted years, like mine.

The vertical repeatably of "a" co-ax may be second to none, but I have an old Bonanza co-ax next to a Forster co-ax, and die adjustment transferablilty from press to press is a 0.002" error.
I suppose that press to press variation is to be expected with any single stage design and manufacturing tolerance build up, but I am going to machine some parts to null out that variation.

 
#65
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why isn't there more love for the Redding Ultramag press??? It cost about the same as the Coax yet it's about 25-1 coax over ultramag. Why don't more of you like the Redding Ultramag press??????? </div></div>
I bought the Ultramag to use the very long Redding dies that would not fit in my shorter (older version) CO-AX.
Nice press, but nothing more than a bigger slightly more precisely made RCBS IMHO.
When the longer CO-AX came out I dumped the Ultramag.

See 9H Crackers comment for why I more reasons to choose the Co-AX.
 
#67
Re: Single Stage Press Opinions

I've decided to go with the Co-Ax. As soon as I sell my pelts from this year's coon season I will have enough money. Where's the best place to buy?
 
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