Gunsmithing Slight Rant/Cry for Help

[Cricket]

SO I have been a member of this site since 2017, and had long been a "stalker" before then. I have always used this site, since I discovered it, to find information and to get recommendations. That isn't likely to change in the future.

However, I have a new perspective now. I approached this site last year in spring and started doing research on who would be the best person for me to do business with for my very first, and likely only, custom rifle.

I don't have a lot of money on my hands, so spending upwards of 2-3k on a rifle is a very tall order, but I had my tax return burning in my pocket and decided to treat myself. I promptly put in an order for a very nice rifle stock, from a widely renowned and extremely involved and experienced gunsmith. I was told the wait would be somewhere around 6 months, and I prepared myself for "the long haul."

It has now been 10 months, and despite having contact with the gunsmith in December of last year in which I was told "it would be done in a couple weeks, just had some some work to do for the bipod attachment." I was okay with this, being a month late at that time wasn't as much of an issue, as long as I knew it was being worked on and had some communication with the builder.

Now though... I have sent numerous emails, called dozens of times, even texted back this person from to the phone number he sent me a picture of the stock from.

Am I being too impatient? Or is communication too much to ask for?

If something went wrong with the stock, "Shit happens", just let me know.

I've since looked into this across other gunsmiths, and it seems to be a recurring theme, I get it guys, you want to be left alone in the shop to work on your projects, and don't want to have to sift through spam emails or spam calls... But is your business really that good that you can blow off customers routinely, still make money and a living, and have work lined up to continue going, even though I would hazard a guess that a lot of customers won't be returning?

Am I blowing this out of proportion?

Consider folks, please, the next time you have the budget to expand your operations, in getting a secretary that can help you retain customers.

 

[flyer]

I'm waiting on a chassis (pre-order) that is about 6 months late.

I waited about 3-4 months past the stated lead time on another.

It's not ideal but the reality is that some times getting the best takes a lot longer than expected.

 

[Cricket]

I'm waiting on a chassis (pre-order) that is about 6 months late.

I waited about 3-4 months past the stated lead time on another.

It's not ideal but the reality is that some times getting the best takes a lot longer than expected.

I would be fine waiting longer, but it this was the time quoted from the builder. I' beginning to get the impression that any quote on time in this industry, unless its an in stock item, should be doubled. Maybe I missed the memo somewhere.

 

[D_TROS]

Send your parts and forget it. You made many mistakes

1 - Not buying a smoking good deal from the PX
2 - Not researching your smith. Couple of truly fantastic smiths, and dozens who do good work when they get to it and still more that have too many irons in the fire that make promises they cant keep. its called real life.
3 - If someone bothered me every 5 min on a project Id send their shit back.
4 - Smiths really are that busy. and getting a secretary to keep you happy is a redic cost when people already cut every corner to eliminate any profit margin as it is. these smiths arnt getting rich
5 - expect it. move on.
6 - Not buying a smoking good deal from the PX




I believe the matrix is this

Fast
Good
Cheap

Pick 2 lol.


GL
DT

 

[hlee]

I've said this elsewhere, but it applies here. Firearms enthusiasts, in general, have battered wife syndrome.

 

[flyer]

Yes, I was quoted 7-8 months on the pre-order and am at about 13 months now. The other had an 8-12 week quoted lead time, I think it took about 24 weeks.

I wasn't talking about total wait, I was talking about how long I had to wait after the stated wait time.

Some stuff hits the schedule, especially established products from established manufacturers. Some stuff gets delayed when a company has issues with an unrelated product and has to shift priorities.

The safest bet is to order standard products off the shelf from a retailer with stock but I've had some lie about that too.

In my experience, you always wind up waiting on something so try to order long lead time items early so that extra time might only be a small bump at the end.

 

[JLP.Payette]

Hopefully you love it when you get it!! If so the extra wait will be soon forgotten. I always double the quoted wait time then I'm pleasantly surprised when it shows up early...haha.

 

[bitbckt]

This is how it goes with customs.

Businesses that operate that way in other industries don't last long, but something about the combination of work that resists automation, supply of educated and capable smiths, and demand from the "battered wives" keeps most shops from having to learn the kind of customer service that's table stakes for other machinists/manufacturers.

 

[Bantam1]

This is why I ordered a TL-3 action and collected parts. I ordered a pre-fit Bartlein barrel from Southern Precision Rifles (Bugholes) and he quoted 4 weeks for the machine time. 4 weeks later my barrel arrived as quoted. I bought an action wrench and barrel vice, installed the barrel and assembled the rest of the rifle. It took me about 3 months total time to get all the parts and maybe 30 minutes to assemble the rifle and mount the optic. I was zeroed and collecting data on the new rifle by the weekend.

I read so many posts about how long it was taking to have rifles built. I read about the Bighorn actions and how easy the pre-fit barrels made everything on this site.

 

[1moaoff]

I saw you said "preorder" that is usually a sign that you just need to sit and wait. VERY rarely would I do a preorder in this industry.

Are you unhappy to the point that you want to cancel your order or just frustrated.

 

[Arc Light]

OP, your are 100% right to be pissed as you've been outright lied to. I'm a very impatient person. I would not consider waiting even three months for a gun. I would buy used in the PX, buy a TRG, AI or have LRI build me what I want in 7 days.

I've always been amazed at the number of incompetent businessmen in the custom gun industry. Not talking about the quality of the work, but the customer service aspect of it. Missed deadlines, delays, repeated excuses, outright lies, etc. are all common and we tolerate it. Worse still, many will come to the defense of the gunsmith and blame the customer for daring to believe the timeline he was given.

 

[Cricket]

Not sure you are talking to me or not but mine wasn't a preorder.

 

[1moaoff]

Cricket, sorry I misread.
If you ever order another custom there ARE shops that have crazy good turnaround times AND customer service.

 

[Cricket]

Cricket, sorry I misread.
If you ever order another custom there ARE shops that have crazy good turnaround times AND customer service.

Yea I had found a few, but me being me, wanted something specific and unique for the stock, since this is probably the only time I'll ever be able to justify spending this much on a rifle.

I guess I can chock this up as a learning experience, but considering nothing about this process has convinced me to do it again, I likely will be "done" with the custom side of things for the foreseeable future.

I have all of my other pieces sitting here looking at me day after day. an ARC Nucleus, Barrel and muzzle break combo from PVA, Trigger tech trigger.. Might just order a cheap stock or something that can fit the Nucleus LA and call er good at this point.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I might be a little lost here....but you ordered a stock through a gunsmith? Does this gunsmith make the stock himself?

I can probably name a dozen stock companies that you can find something to fit your needs and wait 7days to 6 months depending on what you get. What is this gunsmith making you couldnt find from a large company?

 

[1moaoff]

Something sounds off here...

First you said all the parts are at the smith and your waiting.

Then you just said you have all the parts and your stating at them which means they arent at the smiths.

Can you please clarify?

 

[1moaoff]

All it does without clarity is make people get wound up for no reason.

 

[264win]

To the OP,
As mentioned above, people and shops in the custom rifle industry can get away with this sort of bait and switch, lies and other nonsense that would never fly in almost any other industry.
this is why so many people ( myself included) who have been down this road buy AIs, TRGs, DTIs, etc and never look back.

No doubt there are some smiths who don’t fit this generalization but they are the exception rather than the norm.

 

[Cricket]

Something sounds off here...

First you said all the parts are at the smith and your waiting.

Then you just said you have all the parts and your stating at them which means they arent at the smiths.

Can you please clarify?

Never said the parts were at the gunsmith. Only thing i said about parts was that "i have the rest here". The item in question was a rifle stock, not a rifle.

 

[Cricket]

And as for the rest of the conversation, I was just looking for thought and comments on the industry. I appreciate the reccomendations, but I pretty much HAVE to wait since a 50% down payment was required.

The stock body itself is a McMillan that is then further refined. Not trying to bad mouth the guy, others have stated dozens of times over that he knows his stuff. I was just very surprised at the disparity of quoted wait times and the reality.

 

[Ksracer]

I'll never forget the time I ordered a few new reamers and was quoted 12 weeks. 8 weeks went by and I got a phone call to tell me that they had some equipment go down and were afraid that they weren't going to make the deadline for everybody's reamers, but if I had a deadline on my end, they would try to get me what I needed. I told them I could wait a few extra weeks on one, and how ever long they needed on the rest. I got it at the 14 week mark, and they made a customer for life.
What I'm trying to say is, honesty and a little consideration for the other party go a long way in my book. Unfortunately this industry has its share of habitual liars.

 

[Cricket]

I'll never forget the time I ordered a few new reamers and was quoted 12 weeks. 8 weeks went by and I got a phone call to tell me that they had some equipment go down and were afraid that they weren't going to make the deadline for everybody's reamers, but if I had a deadline on my end, they would try to get me what I needed. I told them I could wait a few extra weeks on one, and how ever long they needed on the rest. I got it at the 14 week mark, and they made a customer for life.
What I'm trying to say is, honesty and a little consideration for the other party go a long way in my book. Unfortunately this industry has its share of habitual liars.

I hesitate to even call the guy a liar. I'm not aware of the reason why its taken so long, I am just frustrated to no end about the lack of communication. Shit happens, I get it, I would just like to know so I can plan around the timeline shift.

 

[pmclaine]

When I was a kid fishing was my thing.

Id get a Bass Pro catalog in the mail.

In the center was the order form.

Using my best block letter printing Id write in the item number and description of what I wanted. It had to be best printing because I was afraid the person would send the wrong item if it wasn't clear.

Id give my parents cash and they would write me out a check for the shit I wanted to buy. Credit Cards were not for general useage back than. You wouldn't call in an order for "toys".

Best thing I ever ordered was a Fenwick HMG graphite bait cast rod and the than new and revolutionary Daiwa Mag Force reel.

I stamped the envelope, dropped it in the mail and waited.........

For the next month, yes simple shit like ordering from a catalog took a month back than, every time I heard a UPS truck my pulse quickened.

God I loved that anticipation and the happiness when the UPS guy did finally deliver that combo.

Crap in the USMC letters to Oki described shit friends were doing three weeks ago.

This wasn't that long ago, Im not quite the old guy that walked uphill to/from school in snow chest deep.

As long as you got a reputable vendor you will be good. Enjoy the anticipation. You have good stuff coming.

Most reputable vendors don't take money until the item is ready to ship. Think about that. They don't get paid until they ship so there is no motivation to delay your stuff.

If they are reputable its an issue of good things come to those that wait.

PS - I still have my Daiwa/Fenwick combo. Things anticipated, sacrificed for, of great quality are cared for and made to last.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

When I was a kid fishing was my thing.

Id get a Bass Pro catalog in the mail.

In the center was the order form.

Using my best block letter printing Id write in the item number and description of what I wanted. It had to be best printing because I was afraid the person would send the wrong item if it wasn't clear.

Id give my parents cash and they would write me out a check for the shit I wanted to buy. Credit Cards were not for general useage back than. You wouldn't call in an order for "toys".

Best thing I ever ordered was a Fenwick HMG graphite bait cast rod and the than new and revolutionary Daiwa Mag Force reel.

I stamped the envelope, dropped it in the mail and waited.........

For the next month, yes simple shit like ordering from a catalog took a month back than, every time I heard a UPS truck my pulse quickened.

God I loved that anticipation and the happiness when the UPS guy did finally deliver that combo.

Hell im only im my early 30s and i did this with dirtbike parts. Was one hell of a time. With this being the era of Amazon prime i think people forget.

 

[RmeJu]

I believe the matrix is this

Fast
Good
Cheap

Pick 2 lol.

Seems pretty clear that he picked the first two.

 

[supercorndogs]

Hell im only im my early 30s and i did this with dirtbike parts. Was one hell of a time. With this being the era of Amazon prime i think people forget.

BMX bike parts for me.

 

[fdkay]

700 clone? KRG Bravo to hold you over till he is done with the stock.
Once it hits 18 months, begin legal procedures.

 

[WB300]

At least he didn't blame the months long delay on Shot Show, when he didn't go and had all the parts. That one pissed me off.

 

[Mk32784]

I would ask for a refund polity and go spend my money somewhere else.....

There's a lot of good options for stocks/chassis and smiths that unless this guy makes unicorns poop gold it's not worth your time to keep waiting for him to get his business together.

Oh my new custom build, I got a chassis from MDT on BF (been sitting in my safe waiting until I got the rest of the funds), and called around and found a Bighorn action in stock. It's showing up this week, and my smith will spin up my barrel for it in 2-3 weeks. Waiting 8-10-12 months for a custom rifle shouldn't be the norm anymore unless you're getting something really special...

 

[alfmoonspace]

Sorry but if you are scrimping on a rifle build - did you budget ammo, bags, mags, etc that goes in this game?

Who is the smith? Why buy a stock from a smith? If he can't get the stock right now, maybe roll that over for credit and buy another barrel or something.

KRG bravo or XRAY would be perfect, comfortable fit for a type of build you are doing.