Gunsmithing Smallest practical lathe for chambering and threading

[GasLight]

Just wanted to throw this out there and see what opinions arise. What is the least you can practically get by with?

TIA

 

[skinnj1]

@GasLight Hardinge 11x18 is the smallest between centers dimension lathe I am aware of that is practical for chambering through the headstock (yet it weighs thousands of pounds and go for not insignificant $ for ones capable of threading).SOUTHBEND 9'S or similar atlas's are the lightest, most toy like lathes capable of being carried by a couple of guys and still do barrel work between centers, but it will need sufficient bed length ,cause the spindle through hole is so small....If a person was only going to have 1 lathe , none of the above would be my recommendation....

By small are you looking for a tight shop footprint requirement or getting it into a basement or budget or ?

 

[Millennium200]

13x40

 

[Rubicon Precision]

You can get by with a short bed on a lathe with a spindle bore at least 1-3/8" or a small spindle bore with a bed long enough for your barrel, tailsock and reamer. Mine's something like a 16x13.

 

[cast1]

What is your budget?

 

[GasLight]

@GasLight Hardinge 11x18 is the smallest between centers dimension lathe I am aware of that is practical for chambering through the headstock (yet it weighs thousands of pounds and go for not insignificant $ for ones capable of threading).SOUTHBEND 9'S or similar atlas's are the lightest, most toy like lathes capable of being carried by a couple of guys and still do barrel work between centers, but it will need sufficient bed length ,cause the spindle through hole is so small....If a person was only going to have 1 lathe , none of the above would be my recommendation....

By small are you looking for a tight shop footprint requirement or getting it into a basement or budget or ?

Small for weight on a second story instead of on concrete, and electrical requirement of 220v. Budget as well, I have been looking at the smallest Grizzly gunsmith lathe, but if I can a used lathe under around $2K, I would rather...

 

[skinnj1]

Figuring out how the floor will handle the load is your challenge. A second story stick built residential structure will also move a lot, good luck keeping machine level. A south bend 9 or light 10 or equivalent atlas with 33+" between centers is about as light as they go. You will want to forgo the cast iron legs and set it up on a wooden bench. Not a lot of rigidity or ability remove metal quickly but it will make a barrel accepting the compromises and limitations.

 

[bohem]

Small for weight on a second story instead of on concrete, and electrical requirement of 220v. Budget as well, I have been looking at the smallest Grizzly gunsmith lathe, but if I can a used lathe under around $2K, I would rather...

The lathe I used for a year when I started PVA is the smallest Grizzly gunsmithing lathe. It took careful attention to keep things in good shape but I paid 2k for it and a bunch of toolholders, toolpost, etc. I used it long enough to put a deposit down on a CNC and moved on from it. I made a bunch of very good barrels with it prior to getting the first CNC and it is now going to a friend that is coming to pick it up next week. I held onto it for a while for sentimental reasons and then realized the space it's taking up in the shop costs $$ and I could better use the sqft for something better.

It runs on 220v and draws something like 8A-10A on full load.

Probably the worst thing you'll encounter is the smell it will bring from the cutting oil. I wouldn't use it in a house or the whole house is going to smell like it.

ETA: "gunsmithing lathe"

 

[fdkay]

Weight is going to be a concern.
Precision matthews sells a benchtop lathe with a 1.5" spindle bore.
It is a bit spendy, but in the end, you will need the best quality you can get in an envelope that suits your needs.
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/

 

[TexasUplander]

The little precision Matthews is going to be your best bet.

 

[Primus]

The grizz 13 and 14 are as small as I would go. Whatever you get, don't get something with manual change gears. Having to change gears to thread sucks ass. This would be my choice.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-14-x-40-Gunsmithing-Gearhead-Lathe/G0709

I've also used their newer south bends and they are awesome. Just a bit pricey around $15k fitted out with tooking and dro.

 

[cast1]

For new this looks like a pretty good little machine somewhat close to your budget.

https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1228vf-lb/

I have their 935 mill and it’s very very nice.

 

[Wannashootit]

I could post pictures of a guy chambering a skinny barrel through the headstock of a 7x12 Harbor Freight lathe that shot bugholes.

Flame suit on. "Rigidity" and "you need 3,000 lbs of iron" is bullshit for most barrel work where your DOC is measured in tens of thousandths and not tenths. Ever seen a precision watchmakers lathe? Lightweight, tiny, fifteen or twenty grand, hold amazimg tolerances. "Rigid" and "massive", they aint.

Just like shooting, barrel work on a lathe is more about the skill of the operator and not the " size" of the machine.

 

[Primus]

For the price of a quality machine...you could buy lots of prefits from top end smiths

 

[WVHick]

I bought and use a Rockwell 11” lathe last year. It’s been fun to learn, acquire tooling, and win a local steel plate shoot or two with a gun you chambered.

This Rockwell 11” is absolutely the smallest I would go lol. I’d love to have a PM 1440.

@Primus is right though. You’re not gonna save money. But it is a whole lot more satisfying.

 

[skinnj1]

OP- if you could change your location to a part of the garage or down in a basement, your choice of lathes opens up a lot. If your 2nd story floor isn't up to holding the dead load of a larger lathe and that is the only space you have, don't let it stop you. While people never regret going bigger with machinery, as alluded to by myself and @Wannashootit - adapting your machining strategies to the the task at hand with the tools you got can get you there with smaller stuff, it just takes more time and sometimes, more skill. The freedom that comes from being able to do your own thing cause you have the tools is hard to describe. How much are you going to budget for tooling? Lathes aren't as bad as mills to go from placing the machinery to doing real work but if you don't budget enough in the startup tooling you will severely limit what you can do wth any machine you pick....

 

[GasLight]

OP- if you could change your location to a part of the garage or down in a basement, your choice of lathes opens up a lot. If your 2nd story floor isn't up to holding the dead load of a larger lathe and that is the only space you have, don't let it stop you. While people never regret going bigger with machinery, as alluded to by myself and @Wannashootit - adapting your machining strategies to the the task at hand with the tools you got can get you there with smaller stuff, it just takes more time and sometimes, more skill. The freedom that comes from being able to do your own thing cause you have the tools is hard to describe. How much are you going to budget for tooling? Lathes aren't as bad as mills to go from placing the machinery to doing real work but if you don't budget enough in the startup tooling you will severely limit what you can do wth any machine you pick....

I have a bit of tooling already. I used to have a Leblond 13x18, weight around 1600 pounds. It wasn't ideal for anything, but I did chamber one rifle with it, and made a variety of parts. I moved and couldn't take it with me, so now I am stuck with the bug again, but no lathe. It might be a pipe dream, and maybe I am better off waiting until I get a garage or can put something in a basement, but was hoping there was a good answer out there for smaller stuff. I like the looks of the Matthews 12x28 guy. I will keep looking for something used for the time being.

 

[skinnj1]

@ Gaslight

Dont be afraid to buy something now if it fits your budget / can do what you need it to for the foreseeable future-if making chips is in the blood. Few people who do metalworking (hobby or professional) long enough have the machines they started with- needs change and deals come up. I have three lathes in my shop right now and none of them are one of the first 3 lathes I ever bought...

 

[Clark]

I bought my brother a 13x40 Jet in 2000. We have built dozens or rifles on it.
I bought a Grizzly G4031 7x12 mini lathe in 2002. I have converted pistol barrels from 9x19 to 9x23 with it.
I bought a Clausing 5913 12x36 in 2002. I built dozens of rifles on it.
I bought a Precision Matthews PM1236 12x36 in 2009. I have built dozens of rifles on it.

My opinions on lathes;
1) Get the DRO
2) upgrade the light
3) Get the Albright keyless drill chuck for the tailstock
4) Get a 6 jaw set through chuck for the headstock.
5) Make a spider for the left side of the headstock
6) American iron mills are a bargain, lathe deals are unicorns
z) foot brakes are nice when big heavy chucks take too long to stop.

 

[Praeger]

For the price of a quality machine...you could buy lots of prefits from top end smiths

It's the satisfaction of doing it yourself and saying good-bye to 12 week lead times. No one buys a lathe to save money.

 

[Primus]

It's fun till you start wrecking $350 blanks or your machine breaks and you get to have the final of fixing it. I can run a mill/lathe but I'll leave the chambering up to a pro. Rather know it's going to be a laser than take the chance. Factor in time and materials and it's just not worth it unless you plan on doing it for a living. And then you will want something bigger/faster/Ridgid anyway.

 

[Praeger]

It's fun till you start wrecking $350 blanks or your machine breaks and you get to have the final of fixing it. I can run a mill/lathe but I'll leave the chambering up to a pro. Rather know it's going to be a laser than take the chance. Factor in time and materials and it's just not worth it unless you plan on doing it for a living. And then you will want something bigger/faster/Ridgid anyway.

It's not for everyone. But if you are mechanically inclined and are willing to invest in the lathe, tooling, and fixtures, there's a well worn path to successfully threading and chambering a rifle blank. A number of "Pro's" started this way.

 

[parshal]

I've been using a SB "light" 10 with a 48" bed and chamber with a steady rest. I've made quite that shoot really well. Everything has been under 1 MOA. I've wanted a bigger lathe but it's a lot more money for how few I make. You can always start with something like I've got an upgrade later. They hold their value very well.