Questions for you, when watching videos of guys shooting, their actions seem sooo silky smooth. They require little effort to keep their rifle on target. I own a Savage 116 (7mm) and a RPR (6.5) and they are not that easy to re-cycle. Even when I am at home dry-firing I have a very hard time maintaining my form and keeping my eye on the glass while I reload. I'm thinking this is because the difference between an o.k. action and really good actions but unsure.
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Smoothness of a bolt action
- Thread starter Beefdip
- Start date
my buddies RPR had a tight/rough bolt throw for awhile. eventually it broke in and is much better.
my savage 10 was pretty nice. but my origin is even better. just keep shooting and manipulating the bolt. it'll get better
my savage 10 was pretty nice. but my origin is even better. just keep shooting and manipulating the bolt. it'll get better
It is the custom actions that your seeing most of the time. That’s what your paying for. Silky smooth, light bolt lift, and fast.
I couldn’t stand having to move my whole body to reload or have my rifle get wonky because the bolt lift was so hard.
Look at the Impacts if you wanna see smooth... lol
I couldn’t stand having to move my whole body to reload or have my rifle get wonky because the bolt lift was so hard.
Look at the Impacts if you wanna see smooth... lol
The savage 243win I rebuilt from a youth model to a 26" heavy in a Manners stock was pretty rough and notchy to begin with.
When I had the rifle stripped down to a bare action I polished the race ways, bolt body and contact surface of the bolt head with Hoppes gun polish which is basically jewellers rouge until all were silky smooth.
After reassembly and breaking in the barrel and properly lubing the actioon and bolt it is a different animal.
Would I put it in the same class as my Kelbly action that isn't even broke in yet NO but I certainly wouldn't call it unusable and it is still improving.
One thing I have done that certainly is worth the effort is burnishing the bolt surfaces and race ways in the action with moly paste, my Rem 700 action I did is as smooth as any other action I have felt.
When I had the rifle stripped down to a bare action I polished the race ways, bolt body and contact surface of the bolt head with Hoppes gun polish which is basically jewellers rouge until all were silky smooth.
After reassembly and breaking in the barrel and properly lubing the actioon and bolt it is a different animal.
Would I put it in the same class as my Kelbly action that isn't even broke in yet NO but I certainly wouldn't call it unusable and it is still improving.
One thing I have done that certainly is worth the effort is burnishing the bolt surfaces and race ways in the action with moly paste, my Rem 700 action I did is as smooth as any other action I have felt.
We're all paying as much for action only (no barrel) as a factory rifle because we want to look kewl on the firing line? 
If you're hunting or punching paper slow fire it's a waste of money. If you compete it's a HUGE advantage.
When I practice at my home range everyone stops shooting and watches as I run the steel out, because they never see it. The see fast, and they see accurate, but they never see fast and accurate. I remember the first time I went to a match and saw, actual, good shooting. I was floored. I thought I was a good shot before that. Now I know better.
When I practice at my home range everyone stops shooting and watches as I run the steel out, because they never see it. The see fast, and they see accurate, but they never see fast and accurate. I remember the first time I went to a match and saw, actual, good shooting. I was floored. I thought I was a good shot before that. Now I know better.
There are several things that contribute to this - friction points within the design. One is the extraction cam area where the bolt handle rides on the receiver. Another is where the back side of the bolt lugs make contact with the receiver. Lastly on the Savage design where the floating bolt head intersects the bolt body.
All of these areas can be addressed with a mild abrasive/polishing compound. Valve lapping compound from the auto parts store is a good place to start. Otherwise buy specific grits and work from course to fine. Brownells has them.
All of these areas can be addressed with a mild abrasive/polishing compound. Valve lapping compound from the auto parts store is a good place to start. Otherwise buy specific grits and work from course to fine. Brownells has them.
First off, don't believe everything you see on TV... second, could be the effect of a lot of practice. The actions might be smooth, but it could also just appear to be super slick because of how it's operated.
-Stooxie
-Stooxie
I use TS-70 Moly paste it has a very high Molybdenum content and a coefient of friction of .044
I just use red shop towels for application mostly if easily accessible and cotton patches on the end of whatever is needed to reach more confined spots.
I strip all oils and lubes from the surfaces that I'm applying it first and just work small amounts of it into all surfaces I want to treat, it will basically be work into the pores of the metal and any porous surfaces creating a very low friction barrier and excellent corrosion inhibitor.
Word of caution though it can be messy and whatever you get it on its damn near impossible to get out of clothing.
Give it a try I'm sure you will notice an improvemnet, when I'm done I lube everything down with a light coat of FP-10 but I'm sure there are many other oils that work good to.
I have shotguns that break open with ZERO resistance. They're still tight and lock up like a bank vault, but after tens of thousands of times working the action they just fall open and forcefully eject the shells with no force but gravity. A great custom action is like that out of the box. You don't have to do anyting to it. It's brand new, but acts like it's been cycled a million times and is effortless to operate. That and a 60 deg throw are what I'm paying for. After shooting my comp gun so much when I go back to a regular throw on a long action it feels like I'm throwing a battleship.
I put a solid titanium bolt shroud on my RPR and it helped to smooth out the bolt cycle
Cool thanks. I have worked through the cerakote on most areas(remind me to never cerakote an action again). Will the molly work on the remaining kote or should I work the rest of it off before doing it? It is 100% better than it was at first. I'm thinking adding this will make it as smooth as my 1000 cycle savage. Say what they will about savage and I'm sure some are nasty but man mine is smooth as hell and I can work it as fast as my hand will move with no malfunction at all.
I've never tried it on anything cerakote treated, it would probably be best without the coating since its real benefit is it filling in all of the little pores in the steel but I'm sure it would slick it up either way.
I've heard alot of complaints about cerakote on bolts and clearance issues but also when done correctly it is pretty effective just never had one done that way.
I've polished and coated some with Moly and have one that is nitride treated that I will also be adding moly to when I finish the bedding on my stock. I think you will like the results.
That's lubrication, not burnishing. Burnishing is the plastic deformation of the high spots in the surface roughness of metal. That roughness is the result of machining, i.e. tool marks.
PS, steel doesn't have pores. It has surface irregularities.
Sooo what your saying is the microstructures between the various components comprised in various alloys and steels are not pores but surface irregularities. Aren't pores also surface irregularities or minute openings in a surface ?
And the definition of burnishing is to polish something especially metal by rubbing.
As well as I'm aware of plastic wear of metals due to material displacement.
I think my definition was correct considering I used a very mild abrasive Hoppes gun polish to burnish and filled any remaining pores or surface irregularities in by rubbing with the moly paste I described.
Does that sound about right ?
Wasn't trying to write a technical manual on the process just describe in basic terminology for someone.
The microstructure of steel is not porous. And surface irregularities occur at the surface, not within the microstructure.
Porosity is not surface roughness.
I guess in a world where nitriding is a coating anything is possible
Fair enough, your making me go back and read material I haven't looked at in years.
And now I know your fucking with me by referring to nitriding as a coating.
"Molly grease make bolt slippery" (in cave man talk) is all that matters to me lol.
Thanks for all the great info. Not sure if this changes anything but I should have been a bit more precise in my question. The greatest amount of force is lifting the bolt handle up. Once up both rifles are pretty smooth.
You can get a "bolt lift kit" for the savage that helps a TON, But its still not the same as a custom action will be.
Both actions will smooth out with usage. My savage really was super smooth (but still sloppy) and with the bolt lift kit installed I could run the bolt and stay on target no problem.
One cheap and easy thing you can do to speed it up is to put some sort of polishing compound on the bolt and cycle it like suggested above. Lapping compounds, paint polishing compounds, and even toothpaste will work.
Both actions will smooth out with usage. My savage really was super smooth (but still sloppy) and with the bolt lift kit installed I could run the bolt and stay on target no problem.
One cheap and easy thing you can do to speed it up is to put some sort of polishing compound on the bolt and cycle it like suggested above. Lapping compounds, paint polishing compounds, and even toothpaste will work.
Also, on a Savage, you can minimize the bump at the top of the cocking ramp and that will help a ton. If you are mechanically inclined you can set the firing pin fall to .25" and that will help a great deal as well. Most Savages overcock considerably from the factory.
I spent a lot of time cycling my bolt, cleaning, greasing the lugs and repeating. I did this more times than I can count, but it is a very smooth cycle.
As compared custom action to custom action, yes. Put a Savage in one of those guys hands and it still wont look smooth. That is why you don't see many.
I know a lot of "smoothness" is from custom actions or break-in, but I also think some of them guys know their rifles so well, that they are able to make it look like a smooth cycle and they just know the "feel".
if you wanna blame an action because it has 'room to move the bolt' that's fine. but go find an experienced shooter running an ARC action. i bet it doesnt bind. and they're not tight actions, they run in bad conditions.
if you push the bolt in a poor path, yeah it might run funny, especially in a ruger/savage/R700. take the same rifle and run it how it should be and it'll probably work just fine
if you push the bolt in a poor path, yeah it might run funny, especially in a ruger/savage/R700. take the same rifle and run it how it should be and it'll probably work just fine
One thing people forget is that there's a lot more than the action involved in having a gun that runs and cycles smoothly.
How tuned to your action are your mags?
How easy is it to strip a round from them when sliding the bolt forward?
Does it require more force if your mag is pressed up against a bag on a barricade?
How much resistance does the case have on chambering?
Are you sizing enough to get zero effort bolt close, without oversizing brass or getting excess headspace?
Bullets not encountering the lands or any carbon ring etc?
How much more bolt lift is there on a fired case vs just bolt lift after dry firing?
Can you run a more conservative powder charge weight to avoid any hint of increased bolt lift?
Do you have sufficient diameter sizing on your brass to avoid bolt "click" at the top of the lift (primary extraction)?
Get all those things right or wrong and it makes a lot more difference than which action you're running.
How tuned to your action are your mags?
How easy is it to strip a round from them when sliding the bolt forward?
Does it require more force if your mag is pressed up against a bag on a barricade?
How much resistance does the case have on chambering?
Are you sizing enough to get zero effort bolt close, without oversizing brass or getting excess headspace?
Bullets not encountering the lands or any carbon ring etc?
How much more bolt lift is there on a fired case vs just bolt lift after dry firing?
Can you run a more conservative powder charge weight to avoid any hint of increased bolt lift?
Do you have sufficient diameter sizing on your brass to avoid bolt "click" at the top of the lift (primary extraction)?
Get all those things right or wrong and it makes a lot more difference than which action you're running.
My RPR is very rough with the plastic mag that came with it (bolt hold open when empty). I used one of my AI mags from my custom rifle and it ran MUCH smother. The bolt just does not run smoothly over the follower in the plastic mag. Feels like a different rifle using the AI mag.
The RPR action runs like 3 miles of gravel road. But, mine shoots straight and the action hasn’t been my issue with shooting. Watching those buttery smooth actions that seem to jump open and fall closed- all while riding a mag lev rail will make a guy jealous. But, fuck it. Run what ya brung. If I start shootings well enough the action smoothness becomes a problem, I’ll look to upgrade. I spent my youth riding washboard county roads, a rough action ain’t that big a deal.
Exactly what I always tell people. Run what you have to get started. Make sure you like it and want to dive off the deep end with a custom build.
I try to stay away from lube on any part of the bolt as much as possible. Most of these matches are 50%+ prone. Wind blows dust into your action especially when prone. If you have a stage where your squad is lined up prone half the guys will be running a brake. I don’t know what it is, but the amount of crap that goes into your action on these stages defies physics. Unlubed bolts get sticky and start to freeze. By that time a lubed bolt will be frozen.
Why do you think no one is running a BAT Machine or Haverkamp? Super tight actions wouldn’t work in field conditions. I even carry a bottle of Ronson lighter fluid in my pack to flush my bolt and trigger when the start to get sticky and fail because of dust and debris you just can’t avoid...
Lube makes them a lot slicker off a shooting bench, but I try to run as dry as possible in a match. This is because I’ve learned my lesson some time ago.
Why do you think no one is running a BAT Machine or Haverkamp? Super tight actions wouldn’t work in field conditions. I even carry a bottle of Ronson lighter fluid in my pack to flush my bolt and trigger when the start to get sticky and fail because of dust and debris you just can’t avoid...
Lube makes them a lot slicker off a shooting bench, but I try to run as dry as possible in a match. This is because I’ve learned my lesson some time ago.
Couldn't agree more. I wish I had that Mosin-Nagant. All the ones I use to have were as stiff as a rusty joint on a drain pipe. He moves that bolt like it was on a 30-40 Krag.
BTW, what everyone is saying about the moly lubricant is true. I have also discovered the Mil-com grease. It's not cheap but doesn't leave a black stain on your hands or clothes.
Also keep an eye on the videos where the they haven’t pulled the trigger, or sometimes don’t even have a trigger installed. The bolt lift is is different when it’s cocking bs not.
And as said above, most of it is in how well the user is running it.
And as said above, most of it is in how well the user is running it.
Saw ur note abt polishing raceway. Moly paste is great idea for polish/lube. Want to smooth out action on my RPR. Did u remove trigger assembly before polishing? Don’t think I’d want the paste to get down there??
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