Rifle Scopes SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

[brianlangeliers]

I am stuck. I dont know which to buy. I have narrowed it down to these two scopes. I just need a few "expert" opinions on which one to buy. Is the S&B worth the extra money? Is the S&B glass that much better. Its going on a custom .308 bolt gun, intended to shoot the standard 1000 yds. Anyone? If you prefer one please explain why! Thanks.

 

[neeley205]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

I've owned both, the S&B is really nice but the USO has some really great features. And also some really great reticle choices. If I had to chose between these two it would come down to exactly what I'm using it for. The P4F is a little small when using all the way down if you do a lot of low mag stuff (hunting in thick forest etc.) But I still find it nothing to complain about, some people do. The EREK knob rocks, plus I like the ERGO too. Not nearly as finicky as a side paralax if your changing ranges quickly. But all and all I rate them pretty damn close.

There's a big difference in mag there. Do you need the extra 5x of the USO? If not, go S&B. While you can shoot 1K perfectly fine on 12X, You might want to consider the 4-16x in your comparison instead. I'm no "expert" but its just a suggestion. Either way, you'll be dissapointed with neither. And yes, S&B glass is phenominal, but USO is very good. i only mention this, because when buying a top tier optic, the glass is always going to be good, the features(turrets, reticle, tracking repeatability, etc.) are a more important consideration at this level. they will all have good glass, but does it do exactly what YOU need it to do?

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

Its all personal preference, it usually comes down to what your preference is regarding the reticle and turrets. The glass is all very good on the top tier scopes.

 

[recce556]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

Have you considered the new S&B 3-20x50 also? Here's a photo from warGOD...

As for S&B's reticles, I have a S&B 5-25x56 with the P3 (MILDOT) reticle and down to 5x, it works great. Not the fanciest of ranging reticles but it works.

Now USO vs. S&B, honestly, if cost is no factor, I'd personally pick the S&B. I have USO's and while they're good, they're not as good as S&B. The S&B's are just well executed all around.

 

[neeley205]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recce556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered the new S&B 3-20x50 also? Here's a photo from warGOD...

</div></div>

supposedly coming out in April. S&B is uaually pretty on top of release dates, but i just dont trust them. when this hits the street it is going to be a great piece of gear, but i can tell you that im not putting any money on them being easily available anytime soon. everyone is talking about this thing, i bet they have most of the initial shipments sold. i could be 100% wrong, but ive been taught lesson after lesson about counting your chickens before they hatch. im a little gun shy now a days about things like that. for guys that have tons of gear, its pefectly OK to get put on a 2-3mo backorder. but if its going to be your only piece of glass, thats a long time to stare at a naked rifle. . . .

but the one good thing, once these come out, the for sale board will be flooded with great scopes people are trying to sell to get the "new cool thing." i bet you can find a killer deal on a used 4-16x right before/when these are released.

i have a P3 and i really like it. especially at low mags.

 

[recce556]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

Yeah, I predict the 4-16x's will take a hit in resale price once the 3-20x come out. NLY205 makes a good point about the wait time but then again, if you're going to order direct from USO, there may also be an extended wait/build time. If you have other guns to shoot and you're OK with waiting, I say wait for it. I saw the 3-20x at SHOT and they were pretty magical...almost unicorn like...and I'm not talking about this kinda limp-wristed unicorn...

I'm talking about a <span style="font-weight: bold">AK-wielding-Viking-riding-a-unicorn</span> kinda unicorn...with a shield to boot...with arrows and shit in it...and lighting for fuck's sake....

 

[olympian]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

The reticle options, tube diameter, turret options, and customer service opinions swayed me to go with USO. Any difference in glass quality there might be between USO and S&B was quickly outweighed by the above factors for me.

Really look at the reticles and base much of your decision on your reticle preference would be my recommendation at this point in your process.

 

[mcgill]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

I would take an USO if I could ( no export in Europe )
S B has a very bad after sale , one of my friends is at his third shipping for the same optic , more than 3 months at S B and problem is not solved ( we are in France !! )

 

[TallShot]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcgill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would take an USO if I could ( no export in Europe )
S B has a very bad after sale , one of my friends is at his third shipping for the same optic , more than 3 months at S B and problem is not solved ( we are in France !! ) </div></div>


What kind of issue with the scope?

 

[neeley205]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

S&B has excellent resale here. and not many issues floating around here that i noticed.

i hope he gets his problem resolved, sorry to hear it.

 

[neeley205]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recce556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, I predict the 4-16x's will take a hit in resale price once the 3-20x come out. NLY205 makes a good point about the wait time but then again, if you're going to order direct from USO, there may also be an extended wait/build time. If you have other guns to shoot and you're OK with waiting, I say wait for it. I saw the 3-20x at SHOT and they were pretty magical...almost unicorn like...and I'm not talking about this kinda limp-wristed unicorn...

I'm talking about a <span style="font-weight: bold">AK-wielding-Viking-riding-a-unicorn</span> kinda unicorn...with a shield to boot...with arrows and shit in it...and lighting for fuck's sake....

</div></div>

ok, you got me, im on board. but only because hes rocking some kind or adidas/early90s air jordan hybrids. and the unicorn is actually firing the rainbow out of his ass like a vectored thrust fighter jet. . . .

 

[mcgill]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nly205</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B has excellent resale here. and not many issues floating around here that i noticed.

i hope he gets his problem resolved, sorry to hear it. </div></div>

he had dust inside on his brand new 12.50X56 scope received in july, he returned it to sender without using it, came back in september cleaned without dust,put it on his rifle and was out of target at 60 yards ( windage turret screwed at right home )
send it back in september received it again in december same problem , his attorney took the problem now

 

[brianlangeliers]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

USO it is... no one say anything else that might make me rethink my decision. k thanks!!!! jk

 

[MillSpec]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcgill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would take an USO if I could ( no export in Europe )
S B has a very bad after sale , one of my friends is at his third shipping for the same optic , more than 3 months at S B and problem is not solved ( we are in France !! ) </div></div>



S&B will give you a loan scope while yours is being fixed. i hardly think something can break 3 times. Scopes are actually not that complicated its much harder to fix a PC than a scope. they are relatively simple.

your the first person i have EVER heard claim S&B after care is poor.

If his english is as broken as yours and his german is just as bad then no wonder they cant fix it. im still trying to work out exactly what the faults with his scope are from your description.

 

[recce556]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

I think this is what McGill is trying to say:

1) His buddy bought a brand new 12-50x56 and out of the box, it had visible dust inside so he sent it back to S&B.
2) It came back without the dust but at just 60 yards, his buddy couldn't zero it because it ran out of windage (windage turret was bottomed out all the way to the right)
3)He sent it back for the windage problem in Sept. and it cam back in Dec. with the same windage problem.
4) Now his friend's lawyer is on the job.

Now as Milspec said, S&B will send you out a loaner scope while your scope is being repaired which is a nice perk. I don't know of another scope company that does that.

 

[TDECK]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

Wont the 3x20x50 PMII depreciate the value of the 3x12x50 PMII at least as much as the 4x16x50?

 

[crnkin]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

Nah not really.

Buy which one suits your needs. USO for the extra mag and option features, S&B for the glass. If the S&B reticle and knobs suit your needs, IMO, its a better scope.

 

[Swan]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wont the 3x20x50 PMII depreciate the value of the 3x12x50 PMII at least as much as the 4x16x50? </div></div>

I really doubt we'll see a depreciation of value of anything from S&B.

 

[sickeness]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

I have owned 3 USOs and I own S&B now.
While the USOs did have nice features, all of them had to go back to the factory for some tweaking before they worked properly. Customer service may be good but having to send them back in the first place is a bitch.

I would highly suggest you take a look at Ilya's scope review to help you make your decision.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php...-part-ii&catid=4:rifle-scope-reviews&Itemid=4

 

[neeley205]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcgill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nly205</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B has excellent resale here. and not many issues floating around here that i noticed.

i hope he gets his problem resolved, sorry to hear it. </div></div>

he had dust inside on his brand new 12.50X56 scope received in july, he returned it to sender without using it, came back in september cleaned without dust,put it on his rifle and was out of target at 60 yards ( windage turret screwed at right home )
send it back in september received it again in december same problem , his attorney took the problem now </div></div>

wasnt insinuating that he didnt have a legitimate issue, just saying i dont hear about very many. sounds like you ended up with a lemon though, hope it all works out in the end and I'm sorry to hear it.
ive been very happy with my PMII, but i would be upset if i were him as well. when you put down such a large amount of money, you dont expect to have such issues. best of luck to him.

 

[JRose]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wont the 3x20x50 PMII depreciate the value of the 3x12x50 PMII at least as much as the 4x16x50? </div></div>

You buying a scope to use, or is it some kinda wierd investment venture?


The 3-20 will be another great scope in the line up, but did the 5-25 devalue the 4-16??? I see 4-16's selling for more than the 5-25's. How can that be?!?!

 

[MrSwede]

Re: SN-3 3.2-17X or S&B 3-12X50 PMII Military

The 4-16 is a better scope, plain and simple.
And yes, I've used them both.