Snag with a transaction in the PX

[Basher]

Allow me start off by saying that I'm keeping the buyer's identity confidential unless a mod specifies it's needed, or the buyer opts to comment. I'm not looking to screw anybody over, but I'm looking for assistance in resolving a pricey issue here, since I can't find site-specific information on this kind of a situation. Without further delay...

Recently, I sold an item to another member here and have run into a problem. I shipped the item on Nov. 27th via USPS Priority and sent the buyer the tracking number. Since then, the package has not arrived at his place, and the tracking info has not been updated at all. I've checked with the post office on my end, and was told by a cashier that "all packages received here make it out the door." Yeah, right. :-/ I plan to visit again tomorrow to speak with a supervisor or open a case with a Postal Inspector.

The buyer has since contacted me, and is upset that the item has not arrived. However, the buyer did not specify that he wanted the item insured. I didn't offer in my ad, mostly due to an oversight on my part, but whenever I've sold high-value items in the past, the buyer specified added insurance. In this case, that did not happen. I don't ship expensive items often, so the thought of offering extra insurance didn't cross my mind.

Now, the buyer is wanting me to refund him the full amount he sent me via PayPal gift because he hasn't received the item (which should have arrived on Saturday the 30th of November). That leaves me with a few problems:

1) I no longer have the funds. Until yesterday, I was unemployed, and the money from said item's sale went towards bills. I won't get paid for another three weeks, and my wife's funds aren't much better off. Could we cover it? I dunno, I'll have to ask, but I'll end up having to pay back those funds and deal with things being tight until then. But I, personally, haven't got the money to send back.

2) He states that if the item in question ever arrives, he'll re-send the funds. His issue is that he's paid a complete stranger and wants his product. My issue is I'll be sending money back to a complete stranger, and I've already shipped the item. I could get double screwed if he doesn't live up to his end of the deal. I can offer plenty of positive feedback on local shooting forums, AR15.com, and eBay. I don't know what his credentials are.

3) I didn't keep the receipt. Yeah, yeah, probably foolish, but I normally don't. Granted, I rarely ever ship high-value items like this, so the included $50 insurance usually covers things, and I've never had an issue like this in the past. Will I be keeping receipts in the future? Yep, lesson learned there. But because I don't have it anymore, I can't "prove" I've shipped anything, aside from offering a tracking number that's not getting updated.

I can't seem to find a "code of ethics" or anything like that here on the site. Perhaps I'm not looking hard enough, but is there a policy anywhere that the site abides by? I don't want to see either of us get banned here. But I just feel that the buyer not specifying insurance is an oopsie on their part and not the other way around. I didn't offer to pay for it, and he didn't ask for it. Who carries the burden of responsibility here? How would the Hide proceed here? Any mods want to offer advice on what would offer due diligence to this situation?

Thanks, all. I'm hoping that the item shows up so this can all be over, and we can carry on with life.

Mods, if this needs to be moved, please do so. If you want this deleted, I'll do that as well. Again, I've kept things confidential, as I'm not here to screw anybody's reputation (or pocketbook) over. Just looking for help on how to move forward.

 

[EddieNFL]

I would want my money back, as well. If I order a package from business X and it never arrives, I'm a) getting a refund, b) another package is shipped at no cost to me, c) I contact my card company and challenge the charge. I know some sellers state it is no longer their responsibility once delivered to the shipper. I spend my money elsewhere.

Without a receipt you're probably screwed with the PO. As I don't use it, I'm not sure how paypal will view the "gift' transaction for a firearm related item. Definitely a leaning moment. Good luck.

 

[E. Bryant]

I don't speak for anyone else, and certainly not the site as a whole. Here are my thoughts:

1) I insure anything that I couldn't afford to replace out-of-pocket. Normally, this is baked into the price of the item that I'm selling (I am not a big fan of playing fuck-fuck games with putting the burden of selecting and paying for insurance on the buyer).

2) I keep my shipping receipts, for obvious reasons. I know it's too late to help this situation, but maybe someone else will benefit from this advice.

3) If the item was scheduled to arrive only five calendar days ago, it's a bit too soon to start talking about refunds (especially as we get into the holiday shipping season). I had a buyer this past summer who lives only about 100 miles away; he got to wait something like six days for a stock to arrive via Priority Mail because the post office sent it on a trip three states away. The tracking didn't update for several days during that adventure. That's veryunusual, but it happens.

4) Frequent and civil communication between buyer and seller is the best way to address this type of situation, because stuff almost always arrives (see #3). The key as a seller is to maintain the buyer's confidence in your integrity until the item arrives. Taking the case public this soon probably does not serve this purpose.

5) Paying for something via PP Gift is not a great idea. If I am sending money and the buyer won't take the 3.5% hit on his end, I'll add it in myself (that's cheap insurance in case a deal goes south). If I'm selling, I'll usually absorb the fees because of the time saved.

I don't know how to resolve this situation, but it's definitely best to cool things off a notch until at least a couple of weeks have passed without the package arriving.

P.S. You have not exactly kept the buyer confidential, as you included enough info to find the For Sale post in about three mouse clicks and 15 seconds (and I'm on a slow connection).

 

[Trapshooter12]

Why wouldn't you insure it yourself. Your the one sending and now that it is lost you would have got the refund. Now you have to send back money you don't have.

 

[Basher]

I don't speak for anyone else, and certainly not the site as a whole. Here are my thoughts:

1) I insure anything that I couldn't afford to replace out-of-pocket. Normally, this is baked into the price of the item that I'm selling (I am not a big fan of playing fuck-fuck games with putting the burden of selecting and paying for insurance on the buyer).

2) I keep my shipping receipts, for obvious reasons. I know it's too late to help this situation, but maybe someone else will benefit from this advice.

3) If the item was scheduled to arrive only five calendar days ago, it's a bit too soon to start talking about refunds (especially as we get into the holiday shipping season). I had a buyer this past summer who lives only about 100 miles away; he got to wait something like six days for a stock to arrive via Priority Mail because the post office sent it on a trip three states away. The tracking didn't update for several days during that adventure. That's veryunusual, but it happens.

4) Frequent and civil communication between buyer and seller is the best way to address this type of situation, because stuff almost always arrives (see #3). The key as a seller is to maintain the buyer's confidence in your integrity until the item arrives. Taking the case public this soon probably does not serve this purpose.

5) Paying for something via PP Gift is not a great idea. If I am sending money and the buyer won't take the 3.5% hit on his end, I'll add it in myself (that's cheap insurance in case a deal goes south). If I'm selling, I'll usually absorb the fees because of the time saved.

I don't know how to resolve this situation, but it's definitely best to cool things off a notch until at least a couple of weeks have passed without the package arriving.

P.S. You have not exactly kept the buyer confidential, as you included enough info to find the For Sale post in about three mouse clicks and 15 seconds (and I'm on a slow connection).

Edited the post. I suppose it can still be found, but it is what it is.

Also, I "went public" with it to see what the Hide thinks. The buyer is talking refunds already. I've had a high-value item get lost for over 3 weeks before, and the seller and I just sat it out to see what happens. In this case, it doesn't appear he wishes to do that.

Anyhow, I'm not here to point fingers, just laying the facts out.

In my mind, I'd be willing to refund half. If the item shows up, he sends that half back. If it doesn't, we're both out half. Or, I'd consider a refund if I revealed the buyer's ID, because then there'd be some accountability on his end to re-send the money if he never received his item.

I value my reputation and integrity as much as he says he does, but neither of us can prove this to the other. I'm concerned if I send funds back and he gets the item WITHOUT resending the funds, I'll then be out double the cost (price of the item plus sale amount). I'm sure we'll get it figured out somehow, but when the talk of a refund came up this quickly, I was simply seeking input from others who may have been in a similar situation.

 

[ORD]

I don't speak for anyone else, and certainly not the site as a whole. Here are my thoughts:

1) I insure anything that I couldn't afford to replace out-of-pocket. Normally, this is baked into the price of the item that I'm selling (I am not a big fan of playing fuck-fuck games with putting the burden of selecting and paying for insurance on the buyer).

2) I keep my shipping receipts, for obvious reasons. I know it's too late to help this situation, but maybe someone else will benefit from this advice.

3) If the item was scheduled to arrive only five calendar days ago, it's a bit too soon to start talking about refunds (especially as we get into the holiday shipping season). I had a buyer this past summer who lives only about 100 miles away; he got to wait something like six days for a stock to arrive via Priority Mail because the post office sent it on a trip three states away. The tracking didn't update for several days during that adventure. That's veryunusual, but it happens.

4) Frequent and civil communication between buyer and seller is the best way to address this type of situation, because stuff almost always arrives (see #3). The key as a seller is to maintain the buyer's confidence in your integrity until the item arrives. Taking the case public this soon probably does not serve this purpose.

5) Paying for something via PP Gift is not a great idea. If I am sending money and the buyer won't take the 3.5% hit on his end, I'll add it in myself (that's cheap insurance in case a deal goes south). If I'm selling, I'll usually absorb the fees because of the time saved.

I don't know how to resolve this situation, but it's definitely best to cool things off a notch until at least a couple of weeks have passed without the package arriving.

P.S. You have not exactly kept the buyer confidential, as you included enough info to find the For Sale post in about three mouse clicks and 15 seconds (and I'm on a slow connection).

^^ WHAT THE MAN SAID!! ^^

Look, all sorts of crap happens in this day and age and simply put...neither you nor the buyer did squat to protect yourselves against such eventualities at any step in this entire transaction. That said...take a step back and give things some time to work out. I know the USPS is 15 kinds of slow at times and that is particularly true during this time of the year. Not an excuse or otherwise...just an observation over many years of using USPS to ship items all over the place. Before you file anything with the USPS...they'll likely expect you to give it ~30 days for the issue to resolve itself before they'll take much in the way of any action if that tells you anything.

Just as one other observation...STOP @#$%ING USING PAYPAL!!! You are doing so at your own risk with anything and everything firearms-related. If I have said it once, I have said it 1k times...PayPal doesn't give a $#!T about your rights as an American citizen or about screwing you over with their policies concerning prohibited transactions with their payment service. Even assuming you had gone the "legit" route for a PayPal payment for an item you bought (or sold...i.e. - NOT a "gift")...you have ZERO protection for using the service on a transaction prohibited by their rules/code of conduct/etc. The specifically prohibit by stating very clearly that:

"You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
2. relate to transactions involving...(i) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (j) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law."

While that provision is intentionally vague and open to a WIDE range of interpretations, they have in the past and continue to this day to screw people six ways from Sunday on transactions involving even the most inane firearms parts, accessories, etc. I know it is cheap and easy to use and there are no legitimate alternatives at present, but you are not doing yourself any favors by continuing to use that service because of their policies and the likelihood that if anything does go horribly awry with a transaction for a "firearms-related" item...you aren't going to get any love from the PayPal Nazis and in fact, you'll likely get your account locked and the big @#$% YOU in terms of assistance getting your "issue" resolved.

 

[High Binder]

I shipped the item on Nov. 27th via USPS Priority

It's only been ~7 days. I've had Midway packages take longer than that and USPS never updates their tracking codes, that's just par for the course so don't use that as a gauge. You both should probably just chill the fuck out, un-wad your panties and wait a few more days.

If the package doesn't show up in three or so weeks I think the liability is on you. The seller sent money in good faith and you butt-fucked the shipping which was your responsibility. If you complain to PayPal, they will not only cancel your accounts but they also won't help you being that it was gun related.

The few packages I've sent to members here on the Hide of any real value have always been insured and sent with confirmation of receipt. I also take pictures of the boxes as I pack them up and send the pics to the buyer so he can see what I put in it and how I packed it.

Lessons learned: Don't use paypal. Don't fuck up the shipping.

 

[Basher]

I let the buyer know via email that this thread is up, in case he wishes to comment. I probably jumped the gun, but at least I'm being up front with him on it.

Anyway, the use of PayPal is easy, but I do suppose an MO would be the best option for items of this nature.

As for screwing up the shipping, I still don't feel I did such. I've always understood it to be the buyer's responsibility to ask for and pay for shipping, but again, with me not having much experience with high-value items, perhaps I'm wrong here. I'll have to include insurance in the price of the item from now on, as well as certified shipping costs. That means taking a bigger hit on the item, which I was already losing money on in this case. Such is life, I suppose.

And I did not purchase insurance for it because I was already tight on funds. I'm not going to cloud the issue with personal details, but those funds were needed elsewhere, so rather than double the shipping costs and be out that much more, I failed to purchase it. From now on, as noted above, it will be figured into the item cost.

 

[BoilerUP]

Insurance is cheap...insurance. It protects you from mayhem, like this. Build it into the agreed price in the future.

Also another reason I ship anything >300 via UPS, because USPS' tracking blows and lots of shit gets "lost" and sometimes shows up weeks down the road.

Buyer needs to chill about a refund though, not nearly enough time has passed to be talking refunds.

 

[richardca99]

This is very interesting to read given my perspective--I'm the buyer.

To Basher's credit, he's been great with communication. I made it clear that I thought he was an honest broker who might inevitably be screwed over by the USPS. I also stated in my most recent email to him that I was willing to wait a while longer for it to turn up, but he missed that prior to making this post. Bottom line, my end of the transaction was met in full--his was not. I hope the item shows up, but given that he has no proof whatsoever that it was shipped (no receipt), he can't even initiate a claim for the base coverage, as the USPS doesn't know him from Adam.

I acknowledge that holiday shipping tends to slow things down...hell, this thing may get here tomorrow. As for the insurance, this isn't eBay where a seller's shipping policy is posted and a buyer can choose to "opt out of insurance." High value items should always be shipped with insurance, and I can't imagine putting myself at risk like that as a seller. I neglected to ask (assuming it was a given), and that was my mistake. However, that oversight doesn't make me culpable for eating $400.

I think Basher is a good Dude, and I'm sure he sent the item. He wouldn't go to all this trouble if he had. It's too bad that neither of us has any way to follow up given the lack of documentation for shipping. If it doesn't show within a reasonable time frame, I do expect a refund in full.

 

[Basher]

Yeesh. I'm sure I jumped the gun on this, but not having the cash to send back as a refund spooked me a good deal (and still does).

Many lessons are to be learned from this on my end, yes. I have since sent an email to Richardca99 stating that, if we don't locate the scope by Saturday, I'll find a way to refund his money. I'll sleep better at night knowing that I at least made things good on his end. It's true that I don't know him from Adam either, but he's also been very good at communication and has sent his number to me so we can touch base in person on Saturday if things don't clear up before then.

Anyway, my apologies to Richardca99 for mis-reading his email and therefore jumping the gun, and massive props to him for his understanding thus far. Here's to hoping we can clear this up by the end of the week, and thanks to those who've offered suggestions. This may end up being an expensive lesson to learn, but from now on, insurance costs will be included in the items price to avoid confusion of this nature. Until further notice, I think we can consider this a closed issue as far as public discussion goes. I (or RCA99) will post an update once full resolution is reached, if we feel doing so is appropriate. Thanks again to everyone for helping me learn an (obvious) lesson, and for not tearing me to shreds in the process.

 

[Maggot]

It's only been ~7 days. I've had Midway packages take longer than that and USPS never updates their tracking codes, that's just par for the course so don't use that as a gauge. You both should probably just chill the fuck out, un-wad your panties and wait a few more days.

If the package doesn't show up in three or so weeks I think the liability is on you. The seller sent money in good faith and you butt-fucked the shipping which was your responsibility. If you complain to PayPal, they will not only cancel your accounts but they also won't help you being that it was gun related.

The few packages I've sent to members here on the Hide of any real value have always been insured and sent with confirmation of receipt. I also take pictures of the boxes as I pack them up and send the pics to the buyer so he can see what I put in it and how I packed it.

Lessons learned: Don't use paypal. Don't fuck up the shipping.

What HB said and good luck.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I always find it a bit amazing that there are actually people who expect that they can sell something that costs a significant amount of money, ship it with no insurance & not keep the receipts either & then expect to they can keep the money if the recipient never gets their item & especially when the tracking information shows nothing!

Here is the way it works in real commerce:
If you take money for something, you are responsible until the point it is delivered in good condition to the recipient!
If you can't afford to pay for a replacement/refund out of pocket if it gets lost, then don't be a stupid cheapskate and buy insurance on it!
If you are broke, use the money you got FIRST to pay for shipping / insurance BEFORE you spend it on other things!
Unless you have a signed document stating that the receiver has their own insurance cover & providing the carrier name / policy number, don't ship things that you can't replace without insurance.
Always keep your shipping receipts till the item has been received in good condition!

Trying to dance around and say... well they didn't ask for insurance, tough luck, is not only showing a lack of moral standing, but will also leave you swinging in the wind if you are hauled into court over it & your defense is: well I don't have a receipt and they never got their product but mmm.. tough....

Hopefully the post office finds it somewhere along the way, because the buyer having no product, you having no receipt, the tracking number showing nothing is not going to turn out good for you in the end. I'm not saying you need to give the buyer a refund right this moment, but if they never get the product and you have no other proof, then you will probably have to refund them at some time in the future.

As for the insurance, this isn't eBay where a seller's shipping policy is posted and a buyer can choose to "opt out of insurance."

Sure but... wait till some buyer complains they never got the item and see how fast eBay and paypal take everything they can from your account if you can't prove they got the package & provide tracking information to back it up!

 

[dbowhunter]

I've had USPS Priority take 3 weeks NOT during the holidays. It'll come out of the cracks eventually. Stay Calm.

Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk.

 

[KillShot]

I've sold a few things on here and regardless of whether the value is $50 or $2000, I ALWAYS purchase insurance for the simple fact that it's better to be covered and not need it than to wish you had it in a situation like this.

If you can't afford to purchase insurance for an item you sell then either increase the price or don't sell it. To neglect to purchase information for your protection as well as the buyers, that is nothing short of carelessness. I hope for both of your sakes that the item arrives soon because this will be a hard and costly lesson to be learned for the seller.

Never ASSume that everything will arrive in a timely manner or in perfect condition. If there's one there's a dozen stories, or more, on here of people shipping scopes and barrels or whatever else, only for the item to arrive being all fucked up, tampered with while in possession of the freight lines, missing items due to a mysterious hole in the packaging, or never to arrive. Always. Always, ALWAYS purchase insurance.

 

[QuickNDirty]

I probably wouldn't have insured a $400 item, either. Definitely wouldn't be tripping about not receiving it after 7 days.

ETA: Buyer and seller seem like decent people. I find it highly likely that seller actually shipped the product, and buyer actually paid the seller.
The rest is up to God, the universe, and USPS. To date, the remaining three entities have done some pretty incredible shit for a relatively (relatively relative) long time. I think taking a dinky flashlight or whatever from one address to another is probably not going to be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[30calDeath]

Sending a big chunk of money to a complete stranger can be down right scary! The first time I sent $2500 for a rifle to a complete stranger off of another gun website I was very hesitant. So what happened was we had good communication and that was a big help. I sent the money order USPS and had the money order insured and sent over night and as soon as the PO gave me the receipt I took a photo of the receipt and text that to the seller.
Like what the guys here are saying dont use PP for big dollar firearm parts and get the insurance. I know I dont always make the best and brightest decisions but I made sure to cover my end when doing that transaction and after that. I always discuss insurance with the buyer/seller to see what me or they want to do.

In the end I think it will all work out.

 

[Basher]

I always find it a bit amazing that there are actually people who expect that they can sell something that costs a significant amount of money, ship it with no insurance & not keep the receipts either & then expect to they can keep the money if the recipient never gets their item & especially when the tracking information shows nothing!

Here is the way it works in real commerce:
If you take money for something, you are responsible until the point it is delivered in good condition to the recipient!
If you can't afford to pay for a replacement/refund out of pocket if it gets lost, then don't be a stupid cheapskate and buy insurance on it!
If you are broke, use the money you got FIRST to pay for shipping / insurance BEFORE you spend it on other things!
Unless you have a signed document stating that the receiver has their own insurance cover & providing the carrier name / policy number, don't ship things that you can't replace without insurance.
Always keep your shipping receipts till the item has been received in good condition!

Trying to dance around and say... well they didn't ask for insurance, tough luck, is not only showing a lack of moral standing, but will also leave you swinging in the wind if you are hauled into court over it & your defense is: well I don't have a receipt and they never got their product but mmm.. tough....

Hopefully the post office finds it somewhere along the way, because the buyer having no product, you having no receipt, the tracking number showing nothing is not going to turn out good for you in the end. I'm not saying you need to give the buyer a refund right this moment, but if they never get the product and you have no other proof, then you will probably have to refund them at some time in the future.



Sure but... wait till some buyer complains they never got the item and see how fast eBay and paypal take everything they can from your account if you can't prove they got the package & provide tracking information to back it up!

A) I guess people like me DO exist, except that I didn't think I could keep the money and leave the situation unresolved. Hence why I asked for input on how to resolve this peacefully. It seems that question is answer by saying that I get screwed if we can't find the package. Lesson learned.

B) I don't think name calling is necessarily warranted here. I'm neither stupid, nor a cheapskate. If I have to eat $400 to learn my lesson that the extra $10-15 in insurance is worth it before I pay bills, then that'll be a painfully hard lesson to learn, but here we are. I'm not perfect, nor is anyone else here. Some people get this stuff, and I guess it's just not something I've put a lot of thought into it. Sucks, but I can only move forward from here, eh? I'm taking lots of notes, though!

C) I've learned not to post issues like this unless there's a communication breakdown between myself and the other party, LOL. The "not-so-helpful" comments are either amusing or ruffle my feathers, but I try not to take the bait. I'm just looking to make things right without getting screwed myself, which may not be entirely possible in this case.

Thanks to those who've offered helpful insight, especially those who understand that, dude, holiday shipping sucks and is slower than cold molasses! Somehow, things will be alright in the end, even if that just means good karma. I'll take what I can get.

 

[1911fan]

I'd say give it a few more days. USPS tracking is a joke, it shows "Received for Shipping" when you send it, then...... nothing...... nothing...... then updates to "Delivered" a day or so after it's actually delivered. Keep communicating.



1911fan

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

I've have had times when it took USPS 21 days

 

[Danco411]

Same thing happened to me. You won't like the end result. I sold 2000 Hornady .224 bullets to a Hide member. I packaged them securely and shipped them via USPS. Buyer notified me they never arrived after one week. I went to the PO and their records showed it left the local PO but then came back but no sign of the package. In good faith I then shipped another 2K of bullets to the buyer (thankfully I had them on hand) in the same package via the same PO. These too did not show up and tracking shows it never left the PO. Local PO manager admitted they may have been stolen by a PO worker since they were clearly bullets by the weight vs size of package. But being a dumbass I did not insure them thinking what the hell they are bullets and can't be damaged the way I packaged them. Never though about a thieving postal worker. Anyway long story short the USPS inspector opened a case. It has been five months and NOTHING. With no insurance I am just screwed out of $500 worth of bullets. I returned the money to the buyer because he was not at fault in any way. He paid for a product and should have recieved it. As the seller it is my responsibility to get the product to the buyer just like if I had purchased from Amazon or any other company and would expect such from them.

I now insure anything I am not willing to walk away from.

 

[Facemelter]

I always find it a bit amazing that there are actually people who expect that they can sell something that costs a significant amount of money, ship it with no insurance & not keep the receipts either & then expect to they can keep the money if the recipient never gets their item & especially when the tracking information shows nothing!

Here is the way it works in real commerce:
If you take money for something, you are responsible until the point it is delivered in good condition to the recipient!
If you can't afford to pay for a replacement/refund out of pocket if it gets lost, then don't be a stupid cheapskate and buy insurance on it!
If you are broke, use the money you got FIRST to pay for shipping / insurance BEFORE you spend it on other things!
Unless you have a signed document stating that the receiver has their own insurance cover & providing the carrier name / policy number, don't ship things that you can't replace without insurance.
Always keep your shipping receipts till the item has been received in good condition!

Trying to dance around and say... well they didn't ask for insurance, tough luck, is not only showing a lack of moral standing, but will also leave you swinging in the wind if you are hauled into court over it & your defense is: well I don't have a receipt and they never got their product but mmm.. tough....

Hopefully the post office finds it somewhere along the way, because the buyer having no product, you having no receipt, the tracking number showing nothing is not going to turn out good for you in the end. I'm not saying you need to give the buyer a refund right this moment, but if they never get the product and you have no other proof, then you will probably have to refund them at some time in the future.



Sure but... wait till some buyer complains they never got the item and see how fast eBay and paypal take everything they can from your account if you can't prove they got the package & provide tracking information to back it up!

The first point he makes about recieving money for a transaction,and you being the responsible party hits the nail on the head. Weather the recipient wants insurance or not is irrelevent,its weather "you" want it insured or not. Untill it reach's the person who paid for the item,its up to the person who received the money to get it there.

 

[truth]

I'm tracking 2 inbound pkgs right now that were sent on 12/2 via USPS priority. Both had delivery dates of 12/4. One just made it to SLC this morning, the other is is in Memphis. USPS is dirt cheap and always broke for a reason.

 

[am1958]

Someone will correct me I'm sure but isn't the Tracking Number not issued until the item is checked in at the Post Office and this generates an "Item Received at shipping facility" or some such record? While this isn't a traditional receipt it is a proof of shipping.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Someone will correct me I'm sure but isn't the Tracking Number not issued until the item is checked in at the Post Office and this generates an "Item Received at shipping facility" or some such record? While this isn't a traditional receipt it is a proof of shipping.

It appears your premise is that since there is a tracking number the seller shipped the item................................it is no longer his responsibility. Of course, the buyer did his part too...........he paid for the item. Obviously both parties are rather inexperienced at this type of transaction as there was no prior agreement and understanding regarding insuring what appears to be a somewhat expensive item. USPS can initiate a lost package recovery, based on the tracking number and shipped to address (no receipt is necessary.) The package will most likely be found and the panic and lost sleep will be resolved. But if not, who takes the loss? Monday morning quarterbacks are always right but if I'm selling.......................insurance is not an option. If I'm buying............................insurance by the seller is not an option (if it adds to the cost of the item, so be it.) That way the seller/shipper is always responsible if the package is lost. On expensive transactions, adult signature required by the recipient is always a GREAT idea! Hope it works out for both parties.

 

[Basher]

Same thing happened to me. You won't like the end result. I sold 2000 Hornady .224 bullets to a Hide member. I packaged them securely and shipped them via USPS. Buyer notified me they never arrived after one week. I went to the PO and their records showed it left the local PO but then came back but no sign of the package. In good faith I then shipped another 2K of bullets to the buyer (thankfully I had them on hand) in the same package via the same PO. These too did not show up and tracking shows it never left the PO. Local PO manager admitted they may have been stolen by a PO worker since they were clearly bullets by the weight vs size of package. But being a dumbass I did not insure them thinking what the hell they are bullets and can't be damaged the way I packaged them. Never though about a thieving postal worker. Anyway long story short the USPS inspector opened a case. It has been five months and NOTHING. With no insurance I am just screwed out of $500 worth of bullets. I returned the money to the buyer because he was not at fault in any way. He paid for a product and should have recieved it. As the seller it is my responsibility to get the product to the buyer just like if I had purchased from Amazon or any other company and would expect such from them.

I now insure anything I am not willing to walk away from.

That's partially what I'm most upset about. The item in question is a Leupold scope. At the PO, I declined insurance because I thought (foolishly) "I've never lost a package before, and Leupold will replace dang near anything because their warranty is unbelievable." Now, here we are, me being on the line for the cost of the item. Doh! THAT's the part that upsets me the most, I didn't even consider loss as an option. Why? I haven't a clue. Now, I know better. :-/

 

[Tims]

If Im the seller I always buy insurance , tracking number and signature required on delivery. My reputation is worth more to me than the cost of insurance. I only use Fed Ex or UPS, never USPS. If Im browsing the for sale sections and the seller says insurance is on the buyer I always pass.

 

[Guest]

Numerous mistakes made here.
The buyer is in the right 100%. He paid you to deliver the product to his address. You contracted USPS to handle the delivery. From your ad: "I'm looking to get $440 shipped out of it".
It is not the buyer's problem. It is YOUR problem.

1. Always insure valuable items. Since you are paying for shipping, and since the item is your until it's delivered, the insurance is for your benefit. Not his.
2. Jesus Christ! - Don't use USPS for anything worth more than $100! - ever! Their tracking is non-existent, as is their customer service.
3. NEVER spend someone else's money until they have received the goods and everything is finalized.

These are all mistakes that YOU made.
Go and find the money and pay the buyer back.

 

[Wes_Mantooth]

I'd relax and let it ride for at least another week. I order merchandise from a company in Chitcago, its only 175 miles away. I've had several packages take 2-4 weeks to arrive. USPS delivery times leave a lot to be desired but they usually come through. My insurance company requires that I use the post office on items over $5000 because they have a better record than UPS and Fed-X. I've never had a problem with Fed-X but don't get me started on UPS.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

USPS doesn't declare an item lost until 14 business days. I've had packages take much longer than that and get routed odd places but I haven't has one just not show anything.

That said if you offer something for $XX shipped I believe it's the sellers duty to cover it against loss or damage unless a disclaimer is made that the price doesn't include insurance and it is optional at the buyers expense.

With USPS you should ALWAYS opt for insurance one way or another, their track record sucks.

 

[Graham]

Snag with a transaction in the PX

if you offer something for $XX shipped I believe it's the sellers duty to cover it against loss or damage unless a disclaimer is made that the price doesn't include insurance and it is optional at the buyers expense.

That's not how it works. Belief has nothing to do with it.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm sorry I shared my opinion. I will continue to insure the items I sell because I BELIEVE it's my duty as a seller to get somebody what they paid for or refund their money if they don't get it.

 

[richardca99]

That's not how it works. Belief has nothing to do with it.

Please...regale us with your wisdom of business best practices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Swampy]

I've never sold any items here, however I have bought a few high end optics & other items from People on this site. Some good advice has been given here. I recently traded a scoped rifle to a person, after pictures and personal contact info traded. (not from this site) I advised that I would be sending it insured, Signature required,for a little more than stated value, in a secure hard case that was boxed up. Afterwards, e-mailed tracking info to the guy. I like the idea of exchange pic's via texting as well, regarding copies of the tracking number and shipping receipt. He's sending me an item back my way upon receipt of rifle & his confirmation that all is good.

 

[Graham]

Snag with a transaction in the PX

Please...regale us with your wisdom of business best practices.

Please, to criticize another you should first be able to demonstrate that you know 'business best practices' have nothing to do with it.

 

[richardca99]

Snag with a transaction in the PX

Please, to criticize another you should first be able to demonstrate that you know 'business best practices' have nothing to do with it.

As I suspected...a troll with a high post count. But a troll nonetheless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Graham]

Snag with a transaction in the PX

As I suspected...a troll with a high post count. But a troll nonetheless.

So your position is that not feeding YOU makes ME the Troll?!

Hmmm......

 

[richardca99]

The scope finally arrived, and it was exactly as Basher had described. No clue as to why it went off the grid, but all is well that ends well. Thanks Basher...


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[Slapchop]

Glad this worked out for both of you guys. It's nice to see a happy ending, usually these types of threads don't end well. Oh and don't worry about Graham, he's the resident "know it all". He likes to interject his snarky little comments and tries to wow with big words but rarely does he contribute anything of substance.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Ya, Graham is the know it all..........

 

[QuickNDirty]

+1 to God, the universe, and USPS. Yet again they have done some incredible shit.

I would like to take this time to thank God for atoms, gravity, magnetism, electricity, plasma, and some other nifty things essential to the smooth functioning of the internet, CNC machines, people, etc. The universe for being all big and crazy and capable of supporting awesome shit like scopes, and USPS for being able to move a scope from one place to another place with a relatively high degree of precision and speed.

 

[Switchblade]

OP, Basher,
In this case both of you owe one another:
YOU owe your customer the time it takes to pursue the loss or misplacement of said item. Your Point of Contact at the USPS office who took first possession would be the POST MASTER for that office. You have a tracking number. Between the two of you, you should be able to locate and track the item. IF the item has been stolen, you owe a refund to your customer because he did not receive the item you sold him. It is up to you to insure that item gets from you to him, that is on you.
HE owes you the time it takes to make this right, and investigate this. Once you have determined the item is long gone and have had the time to so, he can them demand a refund which you are obligated to pay. IF the item arrives, the buyer is responsible to pay the agreed upon funds if they have been refunded.

As to good business practice, try this:

If an item is shipped, and it costs more than you can bear in loss, insure it at twice it's worth(purchased price as paid by buyer). Make sure all your items hold tracking numbers, and required signature upon receipt. This protects both of you in a transaction for loss. You can easily repay the client, and you recover the funds through insurance so no one but the insurer takes the hit. When the item ships, insure the buyer receives an email and tracking number. Packaging for transport is a huge part of doing business to protect against damage.
Just a few thoughts on business from a guy who had a small business that for some reason went global and tripled in it's value in four years.

 

[Hunbramericano]

I sold and purchased tons of merchandise online. If I buy the merchandise it is the seller's responsibility until the point of arrival. Means I don't receive I have the right to get back my money. When I sell (I sold thousands, was power seller on ebay) it is my responsibility to make sure the buyer receives.
I dealt with USPS delivered merchandise to wrong address, delivery person stole the merchandise...etc. It happened many times that buyer pretended not to receive merchandise since USPS did not update the tracking. Merchandise about X value must be insured or take the risk and eat the loss.