Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

[Lowlight]

First off want to thank Vu from Nor Cal, this is a modification of the target they used, and he was instrumental in providing the template for us.

Coming soon, SH will be working on a new series to be shot locally by anyone that incorporates this target, as well we can assist in providing several courses of fire to go along with it.

Details will come after the Memorial Day Holiday, but we will be going into production on these targets soon to make them available to any interested match directors.

This target is designed to be shot on a HP Range, 300 to 1000 yards in it's current format.

We hope to promote the shooting sports, particularly by letting people use their current tactical rifle in a square range format. Meaning the use of muzzle brakes and suppressors, as well as including some limitations to hopefully equalize the field as best as possible.

We have been listening, watching and taking notes to the complaints of the tactical shooter when it comes to square range type competitions and hopefully this is a first step.

Give us your feedback, we have more to come ...

 

[jasonk]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

I'll take the first 100.

 

[AtOne]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Looking forward to hearing more.

Great to see you stepping up to the plate to move this in a positive direction too !

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Looks like a good idea.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

I dig the modifications made.

One suggestion when you do get them printed, go with the heaviest paper you they offer. I think they can go 72# paper.

Our first batch was the normal stuff and it didn't hold up in the rain and wind as well as we wanted. The new batch on the 72# stuff is bomber. I think it almost cost double, but well worth it.

Did the CAD guys give you a drawing with all the dimensions on it? Be curious of what the size of each scoring zone is.

Vu

 

[fargo007]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

+1 on posting the target and scoring zone sizes.

The layout of the scoring zones is very nice and well thought out. The only concern I would have is if it's going to be visible at longer distances though (contrast), and not just look like a blank sheet of paper.

--Fargo007

 

[bohem]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

I like it overall, the other comments are well pointed. I have 1 other addition:


There should also be a 20pt ring in the crotch for the fabled "Dick Shot."

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

It only looks like a blank sheet because it is transferred over to a jpg, the white background is not really there.

It's the same as the Nor Cal format wise, pre-printed format.

I will get the scoring breakdown from Joe,

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

LIKE it.

 

[Lucks]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Good looking target Frank!

What about making the scoring rings on the head 10,9,8 instead of 10,8,6 just to give a little more motivation and reward for going for a head shot? Just an idea...

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on posting the target and scoring zone sizes.

The layout of the scoring zones is very nice and well thought out. The only concern I would have is if it's going to be visible at longer distances though (contrast), and not just look like a blank sheet of paper.

--Fargo007 </div></div>

Depending on the conditions, you can see the scoring rings pretty good out to 600. Past that, you will need to know the target dimensions in order to figure out where that X ring is.

Here are the specs on the NCPPRC target.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Frank,

When you get a chance, I'd like to check out the COF you came up with for your new target. Maybe we can use some of them in our monthly events out here to mix things up.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

I like them Mr. Frank,

I would like to get some for our match up here as well.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Here is the dimension version of the target...

So you have an idea of the sizes. Understand this is clearly marked V1, because if we have to modify it later because the competition part is too easy for our rifles we use today, or if the COF is not hard enough, we will modify one or both. We will also encourage Match Directors to use the target with any COF they chose to incorporate. We want people using it, stretching the limits and pushing boundaries.

Vu, you'll definitely get a copy.

 

[S.Kay]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Frank,

While we are not a "square range" by any means we definitely have some use for these on our 300 yard range. Looks good, let us know when and how and they will be all over K&M during training and our matches.

 

[fargo007]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Thanks,

I was looking more for a hint of which parts of the target are grey or somehow darkened to provide a shape at distance to shoot at. I understood from Frank's remarks that this is the case.

--Fargo007

 

[damit]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Like it. Interested in pricing and COF's

Dave

 

[Pthfndr-CA]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fargo007</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks,

I was looking more for a hint of which parts of the target are grey or somehow darkened to provide a shape at distance to shoot at. I understood from Frank's remarks that this is the case.

--Fargo007
</div></div>

This is the NCPPRC target Frank's target was developed from. I would assume his will also have some kind of coloring.

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

That is sweet.

 

[mscott]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

That would be great on a cardboard target with perforations like used in USPSA or IDPA.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Now if we could just get the match directors under the NRA umbrella to allow it to be used simultaneously in XTC Highpower & Palma matches. They MIGHT just triple their attendance

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Great target and great concept. Kudos, Frank!

Greg

 

[fargo007]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if we could just get the match directors under the NRA umbrella to allow it to be used simultaneously in XTC Highpower & Palma matches. They MIGHT just triple their attendance

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

True, but they are stuck in the past and will fight hard to keep it fixed there. Any change == sacrilege & blasphemy. Especially one that has any relationship to tactical stuff. It's almost as if they are more worried about how it will look in the casket than saving its life.

It is not all of them. Our new local NRA match director gets it, and is allowing suppressors, M4's etc. although unofficially. He is all legged out as a HM so he doesn't care about the huge backlash, but for others, that's a serious risk. Those folks "black ball" people.

This target looks great and I will use them when available. Only regret is that I wish it had a neck because a throat hold is not an uncommon tactic out to tree-fiddy or so.

--Fargo007

 

[NorCal Vu]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if we could just get the match directors under the NRA umbrella to allow it to be used simultaneously in XTC Highpower & Palma matches. They MIGHT just triple their attendance

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

Our HP Match director allows us to if we wanted, and he is OLDDDDDDDDDDDD Schoooool sling and coat. A few have asked me about FPR in NRA, and right now the horse is glue......

I think Frank's target will draw more tac shooters to square KD ranges with pits. We have been using this format for years, and each year the match grows. I think our monthly average is 45 to 60+ shooters.

Vu

 

[fargo007]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

I think there are a whole lot of possibilities available with square ranges with pits. The monthly match program I run uses one, and I also run UKD out in the seven pass mountains of PA. One of the best East coast matches of all, Reade is a square range with pits. The combinations of movers, unusual firing positions, pop-up targets / snaps, barricades, etc. is virtually limitless.

I have seen a lot of good stuff written about yours too, so at the end of the day... with the right MD who packs the creativity and organizational skill, a square range match can do so much that plain land and steel cannot. Movers alone can separate the rock stars from the groupies.

The new scoring rings are a nice enhancement of an already good design.

--Fargo007

 

[olympian]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

tag

 

[dc45]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

FWIW, I shot my first match last weekend on the USMC’s new sniper target which also has a raised (upper chest area) scoring ring, which cannot be seen from more than about 6 feet away. Question: is there a doctrinal shift in the military to train snipers to shoot higher in the thorax than the old ‘center of mass’ hold? From a competitor’s perspective, the raised scoring rings are fine until the conditions make seeing the scoring rings difficult or impossible; then it becomes a bit of a crap shoot to remember where the 10 ring is. Those who shoot field archery courses have seen the pre-published ‘cheat sheets’ the serious competitors use to show just where the scoring rings are on various targets. I fear we may soon get to the point of needing similar cheat sheets in our discipline as well. From my perspective, ‘center of mass’ scoring rings are preferable until you get into partially exposed silhouettes, at which point the raised scoring rings make more sense.

Cheers,
DC

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

DC,

If you consider anatomy, the heart is not in the stomach / diaphragm area, but higher in the chest. So yes the focus for the tactical shooter should be high center chest. Then the focus becomes the spine which is why the 9 ring is a bit longer... The point is move away from straight forward competition and into a hybrid that is a bit more tactically minded, not perfect, but closer than giving the stomach the "X" ring.

Personally if you are recording if you are recording your data in a datebook, the cheat sheet is there, Impact DataBooks will most certainly have this as part of their catalog, so using it won't be a problem.

The neck part is missing on purpose, same reason Vu has their separated, but no reason why you can't use the chin, or even the space between it is not that big. And like Leo said, a pencil line for individuals who want it is a easy fix.

I have to travel over the next few days, so nothing will be in motion until after June 4th... once we are up and running I will let you know but I appreciate the debate on the target... Version 1, no reason not to envision a V2, V3, etc... even have plans for a reduced version to help with shorter range facilities.

 

[VKC]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

Actually if you want to be anatomical correct, I would cut the 9 & 8 rings smaller, straight across at a little above the halfway down mark and fill the rest with the 7 ring. The reason is that a chest shot missing the heart but hitting the lungs will likely be fatal…hemothorax and pneumothorax. However, a low shot in the current 8 or 9 ring would be a gut shot and not necessary be fatal, if medical attention is sought quickly.

Spine midline shots are inconsistent and can be deflected or miss the spine, especially when shot from the front.

Plus, you may want to fill in the neck area with points, as neck shots, if solid, are frequently fatal…carotids, spine etc.

Just trying to help.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sneak Peek, New Target from SH

As stated several times now, there is a reason we are not including a neck...

Some ranges do not allow human targets, connecting the head and neck could be construed as being human.

if a match director want to connect the neck, they are welcome to connect it, but initially, meaning V1 we are not connecting the neck to not to give a range an excuse to to allow the target.

You can harp on the neck all you want, but there is a very valid reason not to do this in V1... should I repeat that again, or has it sunk in ?