Rifle Scopes Sniper School Optic Help

[oubeta]

A group of us have decided to take a 5 day intro class to long range shooting. We have very 'green' and don't understand anything about MOA and MIL.
Could you guys suggest a straight forward scope for us to buy to learn on?
Is there one that would be good to learn the basics of milling on?
Our budget is around $1500.00

All the reading we have been doing is just making be more confused. What reticle should be get? Would a MK4 LRT mill dot work? What about a Night Force?

Hopefully we can get an understanding in 5 days on long range shooting.

thanks

 

[Tank]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Have not shopped for scopes lately so Im not sure about the money end.

But in selection regardless of whether you go moa or mil I think reticles and adjustments that match would simplify the learning process - a mil dot or mil line reticle with mil scope adjustments etc.....

as has been mentioned in other posts on similar subject matter having to compute the difference between moa and mil to make adjustments just adds an extra step that can be avoided with matching set ups.


Depending on cost/budget I would pick Nightforce. At least thats is next on my list when it comes time for a new scope.

 

[223man]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

The path I took, and I'm still a little new at this, was I went out and picked up a cheep 4-16x40 center point scope with just standard mil dots put it on a savage 93r17. Then got the shooter ready program and a mil dot master. Those 2 tools saved me a lot of money and headache. Also spend the money and start the online classes here. Again that is the rout I took and I have learned a lot in a very short time. Good luck.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A group of us have decided to take a 5 day intro class to long range shooting. We have very 'green' and don't understand anything about MOA and MIL.
Could you guys suggest a straight forward scope for us to buy to learn on?
Is there one that would be good to learn the basics of milling on?
Our budget is around $1500.00

All the reading we have been doing is just making be more confused. What reticle should be get? Would a MK4 LRT mill dot work? What about a Night Force?

Hopefully we can get an understanding in 5 days on long range shooting.

thanks
</div></div>

Yes it would "work"

come up with a bit more scratch and call Scott at Liberty.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

knobs and reticle should match (mil/mil or moa/moa)

Vortex Razor
Premier
Nightforce F-1

when is the class? And which one?

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

The night force F1 would be a good choice

I would like to just go ahead and buy a nice scope so I don't have to trade up later on.
We have all went with gas guns LWRC R.E.P.R.'s in 18" in .308. We won't be shooting much past 600m so I hope these will work. The instructor said his shoots .4MOA at 100yrds, what ever that means.




The school is a local one called badlands sniper school.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The night force F1 would be a good choice

I would like to just go ahead and buy a nice scope so I don't have to trade up later on.
</div></div>

NF F1 is a solid "buy once cry once" choice. You guys sound like you are off to a good start.

 

[JRose]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">knobs and reticle should match (mil/mil or moa/moa)

Vortex Razor
Premier
Nightforce F-1

when is the class? And which one? </div></div>


All 3 of those scopes exceed his price range.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

That's what I thought until I saw his post just above my first one.......

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

3 round group, 5 round?

.4 moa would mean all the center line of the bullets would be in a .4" dia circle.

what class?

the F1 is a good scope has a simple mil/mil reticle and knobs. also like the zero stop function.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

$1500 is no mans land....

save a bit more scratch or wait until next year and see what vortex rolls out.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

here is an idea.....

go to the used section......

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Wow just checked the price on the F1. Ya it's just a little out of my price range.
I would like to keep it under $2k for sure.
So do I want MIL or MOA??

 

[JRose]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So do I want MIL or MOA?? </div></div>

That's a question for you to figure out on your own. To me, it doesn't really matter, as long as the reticle matches the turrets. I use mils, it's easier to me, and I notice that even people who shoot scopes with classic mil dot reticles, and MOA turrets, still call wind calls in mils.

Finding matching turrets and reticle in MOA will narrow your choices a bit.

Cruise the FS section for a used NXS.

 

[USMCj]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

you are not going to get better than this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1477068&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Do I need a little more power than this?
We are planned on only shooting out to 600m with the barrel length we got (18"), but I would love to try it at 1000 just for fun. Would this power work OK for that distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are not going to get better than this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1477068&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div>

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

If the F1 is out, I would definately agree that a used USO will be your best bet and worth every penny you spend.
If you are going with a variable power, I would highly recommend a first focal plane scope such as the above referenced USO, esp since youa re just learnign the ins and outs of mils and moa.
FFP scopes have the reticle stay in a constant relation to the sight picture size-wise at all powers, instead of only at one power (FFP-distance between mil marks is 3.6" at 100 yds at all powers, SFP-mil marks are only 3.6" at 100yds at one designated power setting since the reticle stays the same size and the picture gets bigger and smaller with power changes).
If you are going to do it right once, FFP an matching reticle/adjustments would be the way to go.

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Wow guys I have alot to learn. We tried to do this on our own by printing out the FAQ's on the site and heading to the range. I think we are just wasting ammo. I think we need professional help to get a good basis to build off of.

I have another question that might not belong in the optic forum, but while you guys are helping me out.

The REPR is a piston gas gun. Have you guys heard of pistons losing accuracy due to the bolt 'unlocking' before the bullet exits the barrel, or something about a loss in accuracy with the piston?

Is there a 'gas gun' forum?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

mil/mil

call scott at liberty look at the premier or the vortex.....

Im just sayin...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

That USO if he says what reticle.....

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do I need a little more power than this?
We are planned on only shooting out to 600m with the barrel length we got (18"), but I would love to try it at 1000 just for fun. Would this power work OK for that distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are not going to get better than this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1477068&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div> </div></div>

if you were shooting 1600 yards...maybe....600 you can do all day with a 10 power

to a 1000 that mid teen is great.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

All 308 gas guns unlock before the bullet is out of the bore... gas guns require a real driver and not just a casual shooter. It's not the gun, it's the nut behind the bolt.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All 308 gas guns unlock before the bullet is out of the bore... gas guns require a real driver and not just a casual shooter. It's not the gun, it's the nut behind the bolt. </div></div>

Da boss has spoken.....

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Any other things you can think of that we would need for 'class'?
Will the ballistic app for the IPhone work for what we need?
I'm assuming we they don't want us to bring a range finder as it wasn't listed on out equipment list???

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Is the MK4 out of the question?
I guess I can get a used NF or USO for close to the same price as a new MK4

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

When you go to Badlands tell them Lowlight said Hi, you'll be the class favorite if you mention my name... I wouldn't recommend bringing anything electronic like Ballistic Computers, or Lasers... maybe a solar powered calculator and a pencil that is it.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

both of the apps will work.

dont get bogged down in kit (lord knows I have...)

close mouth....open ears....learn

what class are you going to?

The Mk4 works fine.....there are just better options.

you have a rangerinder, it is in your scope that is why you go FFP

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you go to Badlands tell them Lowlight said Hi, you'll be the class favorite if you mention my name... I wouldn't recommend bringing anything electronic like Ballistic Computers, or Lasers... maybe a solar powered calculator and a pencil that is it. </div></div>


Frank, why do i sense a hint of sarcasm in your voice?

 

[oubeta]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

How is the class? There are 4 of us planning on taking it next month as soon as we get our equipment.
Did anyone use a gas gun in your class?
I have a GAP, but I've been wanting to try a semi for a while.
I'm thinking that we might should have got the 20" barrel instead of the 18". Our thinking was we all will be using suppressors and we didn't want to have the added weight and length associated with a big .308 can.

Should have have all gone with the 20" vs the 18"? Two of us haven't got their guns in yet,so I be they could change their order??

 

[Chiller]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is the class?
Did anyone use a gas gun in your class?
.</div></div>

I am getting my popcorn warmed up.....

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you guys suggest a straight forward scope for us to buy to learn on?
Is there one that would be good to learn the basics of milling on?
Our budget is around $1500.00

All the reading we have been doing is just making be more confused. What reticle should be get? Would a MK4 LRT mill dot work? What about a Night Force? </div></div>
1. Your instructor will very likely use a scope with a mil-dot or mil-scale reticle. Using a scope with a "mil" reticle instead of an "MOA" reticle is the way to go.

2. With your budget of $1500, the fact that you're using a 308 gas gun and are taking the course next month, I recommend you look at the 2.5-10x24mm and 2.5-10x32mm Nightforce NXS scopes with milliradian turrets and a mil-dot reticle (both of these are important to have together). Add the zero stop if it's in your budget. They are not first focal plane reticle scopes, but are excellent kit that can be used for milling and would work well on your ARs.

Link to the Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x32mm scope

 

[USMCj]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do I need a little more power than this?
We are planned on only shooting out to 600m with the barrel length we got (18"), but I would love to try it at 1000 just for fun. Would this power work OK for that distance?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you are not going to get better than this

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1477068&gonew=1#UNREAD </div></div> </div></div>

17X is more than enough at 1K, and stay away from Leupold! Dont even use USO and Leupold in the same sentence.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

OUBETA can you tell me what course you are taking?? Ive been looking at the Badlands website because I was wanting to go to one of the classes, but the website does not list any class in January of 2010?? Is it unlisted? Is it already full? I guess I can give them a call and find out. The earliest I see the Basic Presicion class offered in in mid april.

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

Nightforce 3.5-15x50mm MIL on MIL.

Mason @ CST

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A group of us have decided to take a 5 day intro class to long range shooting. We have very 'green' and don't understand anything about MOA and MIL.
Could you guys suggest a straight forward scope for us to buy to learn on?
Is there one that would be good to learn the basics of milling on?
Our budget is around $1500.00

All the reading we have been doing is just making be more confused. What reticle should be get? Would a MK4 LRT mill dot work? What about a Night Force?

Hopefully we can get an understanding in 5 days on long range shooting.

thanks
</div></div>

These are in your price range

IOR 3-18x42mm FFP Mil/Mil ---> <span style="font-weight: bold">Link</span>

IOR 2.5-10x42mm FFP Mil/MIL ---> <span style="font-weight: bold">LINK</span> and ----> <span style="font-weight: bold">SH Link</span>

The both of these optics are a great pickup and the IOR 2.5-10x42mm is enough magnification to get the job done just fine.

One more thing, any of the NightForce's will work GREAT they are SFP unlike the IOR's I listed.

John

 

[ARsR4ME]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

My 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 has giving years of good service.

 

[hunter223]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

for $1500 Id def. go NF all the way. Call Scott over at Liberty otpics and ya'll all can get Vortex Razors for just a lil more $ and support one of SH's best vendors all at the same time

 

[hunter223]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could you guys suggest a straight forward scope for us to buy to learn on?
Is there one that would be good to learn the basics of milling on?
Our budget is around $1500.00

All the reading we have been doing is just making be more confused. What reticle should be get? Would a MK4 LRT mill dot work? What about a Night Force? </div></div>
1. Your instructor will very likely use a scope with a mil-dot or mil-scale reticle. Using a scope with a "mil" reticle instead of an "MOA" reticle is the way to go.

2. With your budget of $1500, the fact that you're using a 308 gas gun and are taking the course next month, I recommend you look at the 2.5-10x24mm and 2.5-10x32mm Nightforce NXS scopes with milliradian turrets and a mil-dot reticle (both of these are important to have together). Add the zero stop if it's in your budget. They are not first focal plane reticle scopes, but are excellent kit that can be used for milling and would work well on your ARs.

Link to the Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x32mm scope </div></div>

Excellent advice there, can't go wrong with the above mentioned optics

 

[hunter223]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1478611&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

I say get a Sniper Sniper 3-9x variable or 10x HD and call it a day. They will do more than you need and only go for $600 and $800. No need to spend $2000 on your introductory scope, that is crazy.

 

[learjet]

Re: Sniper School Optic Help

if ur goin to Badlands call Bobby and get his recomendation. i doubt he will recomend much of whats been listed here. i already know what he will tell ya....

if thats where ur headed pm me and ill let ya know how my class out there went