So frustrated, nothing went right...

[taseal]

So I finally got the time to shoot my OCW loads that I made.

It's .30-06 with 208amax and lapua brass (53.1-56.3 H4350)

1st I just couldn't tame my groups to anything decent to get a rough idea of impact points. then the wind literally tore off one of the shoot and c targets (peeled it off almost) because it was so damn gusty at times. I was shooting high on 53.1 gr and then low on 56.3 (consistent... wtf?)

then my chrono was ALL over the place!!! I don't know if it was the chrono or something wasn't right...

I shot factory 62gr M855 ammo and they were all rather close (right at 2990 avg which is where it should be out of my AR15) so I know the chrono was working ok....

at the end of the day i was very frustrated. I literally got nothing out of my load data exercise that I did except shoot 25 rounds down range...

and I can't tell if i'm ovepressure or not. even my weakest load is showing overpressure signs on lapua brass and I'm just confused how that's effin possible. primer craters etc... 53.1 grains is a very mild load for my setup, how can I effin get ejector marks and craters!?

I made a post about the overpressure thing and see what ppl will say, but overall nothing went rigth. what a downer for my 1st attempt at load development...

I don't know if it's me or the ammo that I shot that is stringing all over the place (ok, not all over place, but you know what I mean)

(all my bullets are on the intended targets, nothing missed. that paper you see is just something I stuck my targets on.)

 

[Ericc]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...


Quickload tells me your high end load 56.3gr is running 66K psi. 53.1gr comes in at 55K psi.

53.1gr should get you around 2585fps @ muzzle.

Eric

 

[Headgear]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

Have you checked your OAL against your chamber? IF you are up against or jammed into the lands pressure can get high in a hurry.

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

My oal is 3.548

Ql has the 208 listed wrong at 1.340 length. It's 1.530, and when you change that, it throws everything off...

Even 53.1 showed some signs of pressure (check my other thread) I'm gonna try 50 and see what happens

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Headgear</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you checked your OAL against your chamber? IF you are up against or jammed into the lands pressure can get high in a hurry. </div></div>

The chamber was made specifically for my cartridge by the gunsmith.

I'm gonna send him an email when I get home ands see what he says...

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

btw, I was able to write down some of the MVs... they kinda jump around, not sure what to blame it on

53.7 - 2670

53.9 - 2676

54.3 - 2710

54.7 - 2688, 2832, 2856

55.1 - 2758, 2887

55.5 - 2647, 2739, 2759

55.9 - 2787, 2779, 2748

so as you can tell they were all over the place, which just added to my frustration.

 

[Linkless]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

Did you happen to check any of the book data for the .208 loads you are using? The Hornady manual doesn't have the .208 listed for a .30-06 but the 190 tops out at 52.8 for H4350. I'd certainly expect to see pressure signs if loading over that with a heavier and longer bullet. The chrono data could be affected by muzzle blast if it is set to close. It likely wouldn't show up on the smaller rounds but could certainly be an issue with something with to much powder in it.

 

[Ouch!!]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

What chrono.

 

[EMorr]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

Personally I would run your OCW and or ladder tests first without the chrono, all that is doing is adding another variable in your head that really has nothing to do with the test you are running. Once you find the best few loads from your OCW then you can run them over the chrono and record the results and tinker if you need to lower the SD or something.

As far as your pressure problems I have heard from many people that the Lapua brass had a slightly smaller case capacity, somewhere around 2 to 3 grains less of H20 less capacity than say Federal or Remington Brass. Did you lower your loads accordingly? Are you seeing both primer craters and ejector wipe on the lower end loads? I only ask because high pressure is not the only cause for primer craters and may be causing you to believe you have over pressure on your starting loads when you really don’t. The case capacity may however be causing real pressure problems on your high end loads but I’m just guessing here as I have no firsthand experience with the combo you listed.

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EMorr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally I would run your OCW and or ladder tests first without the chrono, all that is doing is adding another variable in your head that really has nothing to do with the test you are running. Once you find the best few loads from your OCW then you can run them over the chrono and record the results and tinker if you need to lower the SD or something.

As far as your pressure problems I have heard from many people that the Lapua brass had a slightly smaller case capacity, somewhere around 2 to 3 grains less of H20 less capacity than say Federal or Remington Brass. Did you lower your loads accordingly? Are you seeing both primer craters and ejector wipe on the lower end loads? I only ask because high pressure is not the only cause for primer craters and may be causing you to believe you have over pressure on your starting loads when you really don’t. The case capacity may however be causing real pressure problems on your high end loads but I’m just guessing here as I have no firsthand experience with the combo you listed.
</div></div>

My fired brass had 69.7 water capacity, which is actually kind of 1gr high for lapua brass...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What chrono. </div></div>

Shooting chrony. I used it with factory M855 and it was getting the exact speeds that it should be shooting them at, so I doubt it's the chrono... It's a sure possibility though. I had some wondering ES with the M855 with few rounds too.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkless</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you happen to check any of the book data for the .208 loads you are using? The Hornady manual doesn't have the .208 listed for a .30-06 but the 190 tops out at 52.8 for H4350. I'd certainly expect to see pressure signs if loading over that with a heavier and longer bullet. The chrono data could be affected by muzzle blast if it is set to close. It likely wouldn't show up on the smaller rounds but could certainly be an issue with something with to much powder in it. </div></div>

I used QL predictions. I didn't have a book to go off.

I also looked at Hodgon's website that has that load data, and their 200gr loads were maxed out at 49K CUP (i don't know wtf CUP is, I use psi)

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

I looked at some brass that I fired the rifle with when I first got it with the sporter barrel. those have no ext marks, and the primers have no cratering....

I guess I'll go back and lower the charge to 50gr and then see what happens. at 50 grains I really don't think I should see any signs for anything, we'll see what happens to speed.

thing is, abotu 25-30 rounds of my ammo have slight ext marks on them now, so I'm gonna have to use a new set to tell if they get marks or not.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

As a general rule when I run Lapua brass for my .308 loads, I usually drop my charge by a grain, due to the decreased case capacity. All checking the internal volume is going to do is give you a volume relative to other cases. It isn't going to tell you how much less powder to use.

I'd just back off a couple of grains and start from there. You should also get some sort of loading manual. Lyman, Sierra, Hornady, whatever. Just get a good manual and keep in mind that the loads shown in each manual as far as limits go, are only there as a point of reference. They only show the results that they got using the components that they used in the rifle that they used. If want results similar to theirs, you have to follow the recipe in terms of make of brass, bullets and primers.

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

you guys keep saying less capacity, but i think most of you are mising the fact that I got 69.7 grains of water capacity... thats as high as any other brass out there

that might be because they 'sretched' extra after being fired with the high pressure charge perhaps?

 

[223ai]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

Did you leave lube on the case? How far away was your chronograph? Was it on a solid tripod or on the ground?

 

[steve123]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

I've had plenty of days like that so I feel your pain man!

After having problems with 2 Crony's I'm done with them.Ya get what you pay for I guess. From now on I'm either adjusting velocity in the ballistic program to actual come ups or getting a Oehler 35P.

Start over again with another test but this time do a ladder test at 300Y on a calm day.Start real low and let the rifle tell you what it likes. PM me if you want and I'll tell you how I do mine. Maybe try H-4831 instead of H-4350.

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

No lube for sure. it was on a tripod. as a matter of fact I hit the stick thing on the side (steel ones) with 5.56 and the chrono didn't even spin, so I know it's on pretty good lol.

I wish I could afford a Oehler 35P. just out of my budget, wish I knew someone who had one. i'd let them shoot rounds through it with my rifle to get speeds.

I don't have access to 300Y except every other month.

I will also try the H4831

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

I have had good results with my CED Milinium II, which gives virtually the same results as my Oehler 35P.

I started with a Chrony, and then shot it (not on purpose - long story) and then moved on to the CED when it came out with the second gen version. Never looked back.

JeffVN

 

[ChadDoe8]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

I agree with EMorr above. Don't worry about the chronograph data right now. The important thing to worry about is the pressure. Inconsistent chronograph data won't blow up your weapon, overpressure will. You're seeing pressure signs on your brass so something is wrong. The first thing I'd make sure was right was the seating. I'd seat a bullet in an unprimed case (no powder) and then chamber it. See if the bullet is coming in contact with the lands. Pull the entire case and measure it. Did the bullet seat further when you chambered it? You can also see pressure spikes if the bullet is seated too far into the case. If it's not seating depth then I'd look at things like case neck length and crimping. Eliminate the easy things first.
-Chad

 

[taseal]

Re: So frustrated, nothing went right...

I just checked, it's not touching the rifling.

I loaded up more ammo just now. H4350 still (i want to finish it) and loaded 3 virgin lapua with the 208 amax from 50-53

these are virgin brass, so there are no marks to get confused from the last time.

I also loaded 8 winchester brass from 52-55 I wanna see and compare those to the lapua ones.

we'll see what happens at the range tomorrow.

I'm gonna go to the 100 yard range and try to get a good idea of the brass marks, then if I get a good idea and some groups and satisfied (doubt it) i might hit the 200 yard range on sunday. if not I'll hit the 300Y range next month.

I don't mind the chrono, it doesn't get in the way of anything, it's just kind of 'there' it does frustrate me when the numbers are all over the place though..