So, I decided to take apart my rifle.

[jerseymike]

So, I decided to take apart my rifle which I had made about two years ago. It hasnt been shot much, maybe 500 or so rounds down the pipe. The rifle is a bat action with a krieger barrel chambered in 243. The rifle shoots fairly well, 1/2-3/4 MOA. I was pretty happy with that. Honestly, I only took it apart because I was bored. Glad I did. I discovered a few things I was not too fond about.

The first thing I noticed is once I cracked the action from the barrel was that the barrel tenon threads were cut loose and had a good amount of play in them. As I dug further into it. I noticed that the chamber had been cut with a spoon. The face of the tenon looked like more of a roughing cut rather than a finish pass. Hard to tell from the shitty pics but you can see the flaws.



As I removed the surefire brake, I also noticed that the portion of the barrel which was turned down so the brake slips over the barrel, was also lacking quality. Very rough finish. I know it's only aesthetics but seriously. I paid for this kind of work?



Top two pics are the old work. Bottom pic is after I recut everything.

Well, to make a long story short. I pretty much hacked off the old tenon, cut new threads and chambered it. Took a finish cut for the surefire brake and recrowned it.

Photo of old chamber and new chamber. Mine left, old right. Don't mind the face of the tenon. I hadn't taken a finish pass yet.



Barrel tenon threads are now nice and tight with no play.






Without getting into a debate about the "right" way to chamber etc. I chambered the rifle using a steady rest, a Jacobs drill chuck in my tail stock with a solid pilot reamer.

Once I had it together, I took her out with the same loads as before.

The results. Prone on bipod with rear bag. Top pics is 3 shots, bottom pics are 5 shots per group. All groups were shot at 105 yards. That's where the target was set and I was too lazy to move up 5 yards to make it the perfect 100.



Sorry, I don't have pics of the completed build. I took it all apart again to cerakote it.

Also, I'm pretty sure some will ask who originally built the rifle but I'm not going to say. Yes, it was from a reputable company. This is more of a, beware of what's out there thread. Even with a well known name you guys could still get junk.

Rant over.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Nice re- work. With your talents, I'm surprised you buy any " others" work.

 

[Boltfluter]

Very nicely done. I would at least send the pics to the original smith.

Regards, Paul

 

[Djstorm100]

Great work, did you just "pick" up these skills and self taught? Would love to learn how to do this one day.

 

[charvey9]

Nice work.

 

[jerseymike]

Nice re- work. With your talents, I'm surprised you buy any " others" work.

Thanks. At the time I purchased the rifle I didn't have the skills nor the equipment to do my own work.

 

[jerseymike]

Great work, did you just "pick" up these skills and self taught? Would love to learn how to do this one day.

I just do it as a hobby but I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wing of a tool and die maker with over 25 years in the industry. He was taught by ferris pindell as well as a few other well known benchrest guys.

 

[jerseymike]

Very nicely done. I would at least send the pics to the original smith.

Regards, Paul

Thanks! Thought about doing that. We shall see.

 

[19Scout77]

I just do it as a hobby but I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wing of a tool and die maker with over 25 years in the industry. He was taught by ferris pindell as well as a few other well known benchrest guys.

Baaahhhh....Pindell made rifles before the internet so he didnt know shit....

 

[JPShooter]

You haven't named the original maker, yet your picture clearly shows the action being from Bat Machine in Rathdrum. Not hard to google and figure who and where that is.

So if this is not the guilty party we should at least know that!

 

[Djstorm100]

You haven't named the original maker, yet your picture clearly shows the action being from Bat Machine in Rathdrum. Not hard to google and figure who and where that is.

So if this is not the guilty party we should at least know that!

No no...look over here.. I have candy and kittens

 

[PS-G1_Sniper]

Very impressed at your "tinkering" skills. Boredom seldom manifests its self as progress, congratulations.

 

[jerseymike]

You haven't named the original maker, yet your picture clearly shows the action being from Bat Machine in Rathdrum. Not hard to google and figure who and where that is.

So if this is not the guilty party we should at least know that!

Well anyone can buy a bat action correct? And bat was not the guilty party.

 

[StoopidSlow]

We just went through this entire song and dance when a poster made some claims about a leading manufacture selling defective products (muzzle brakes).

He refused to say whom, and was, whether or not he realized it, doing members a disservice. He also refused to substantiate his claims, even though he "had evidence" which didn't help. He has since been removed I believe.

You acknowledged your rifle was accurate, but the fit and finish could of been better. You were not rude and, since you now have the skills, we're able to obtain a finish that you were happy with.

Maybe mentioning who built the rifle could help someone make a more informed decision down the road. Knowledge is power right?

 

[jerseymike]

While it may be a disservice to not reveal the original builder/s of the rifle, I also do not want to take the food out of their kids mouths. Basically, all I'm saying is if you buy a custom gun in which you paid big bucks for (which I did, 3500k+) make sure you look it over with a fine tooth comb.

 

[fx77]

U R correct, that is the quality of work U R expected to receive with the payment of the big $$$
This is probably more common than we think..and that depresses me.

 

[StoopidSlow]

I respect your not trying to be an ass but it just comes off like your aiding and abetting a theift.

 

[jerseymike]

I wouldn't say a thief. Perhaps more of a person who doesn't know what the f*ck they're doing and think the work is perfectly fine.

 

[PKT1106]

I agree you should let us know who the smith wast that put it together, if not BAT. Maybe it would be a motivator to step up their game. And as far as not wanting to take food out of their kid's mouths, if the smith loses business based on shoddy work, maybe he should find a new income stream.

 

[bkw1911]

You guys just want a new tr.net to hate on.

 

[jameslee]

I respect your not trying to be an ass but it just comes off like your aiding and abetting a theift.

I didn't read it that way. Reads more like an infomercial (look what this guy did compared to what I can do). Without naming names, we're left to taking it on faith that it's even the same rifle.

 

[StoopidSlow]

I didn't read it that way. Reads more like an infomercial (look what this guy did compared to what I can do). Without naming names, we're left to taking it on faith that it's even the same rifle.

I was referring more to the statement about not wanting to put them in a bad spot financially.

He could of come here to say hey guys I've learned to machine for myself check out how I cleaned up my rifle.

But instead he specifically refers to his talk as a "rant" and says a builder who we all know is responsible and he expected more for his money... Soo....

 

[alpine44]

I didn't read it that way. Reads more like an infomercial (look what this guy did compared to what I can do). Without naming names, we're left to taking it on faith that it's even the same rifle.

I noticed that people on this forums prefer certain go-to vendors or brands and put almost blind faith in these entities.

NOBODY is perfect. Even if the best person in the business guarantees me that he/she is personally dealing with my issue/product, that 'master' is still a human being and subject to distractions, pressure from deadlines and other 'life stuff'.

The huge advantage of DIY is that I KNOW if, when, and where I cut corners. That and only that led me to earning a FAA repairman certificate allowing me to service and repair my own aircraft. No matter which shop I previously contracted there was always the nagging question of what was hiding beneath the surface. Who really worked on it? The old, experienced hand or some kid fresh out of trade school? Did they take their time/diligence or did they just try to get it done? Sure, we always do pre-flight checks but that does not include taking everything apart like the OP did with his rifle.

Today, my airplane might not even be in a better condition at certain points in time but the fact that I know what that condition is makes a huge difference for proper risk assessment.

Since I also fall in the 'Nobody is perfect' category, I have others check my work. That is required annually anyway since I do not have Inspection Authorization (IA). However, in contrast to high school where I hoped the teacher would not look too closely while grading, I try to incentivize the inspector to find my errors with comments like "If you find something that I missed, dinner is on me on top of your hourly pay". This way, everyone's motives are aligned with my goal of staying alive. I do not worry about profits and the other guy is happy to find my mistakes instead of trying to hide his own in order to meet a deadline or to make a quick buck. And during the almost inevitable dinner I learn a bunch more.

Do we need to go to this extend for a rifle? Probably not but I just wanted to point out that quality is not about "My brand/vendor/tool/gimmick is better than yours" - it is about alignment of goals and honesty in the process. Skills are obviously required but most of the time people 'screw the pooch' while knowing very well what they are doing.

 

[jerseymike]

I didn't read it that way. Reads more like an infomercial (look what this guy did compared to what I can do). Without naming names, we're left to taking it on faith that it's even the same rifle.

No it's not the same rifle..... I just want to waste my time typing this whole thread informing people to pay close attention to the work they receive. Yes, theirs is sarcasm. Go troll on arfcom.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Holy crap, wtf is with people getting so bitchy about him not wishing to name the smith? The rifle was serviceable, it's not like he got taken to the cleaners like some of the hack jobs we have seen. However, he merely wished to tell people to make sure you know what you're paying for when you select a certain smith to build your custom.

 

[PKT1106]

If I paid $3500 for a rifle, I would expect damn near perfection. If I bought a $3500 rifle and took it apart and found all of that, I would be pissed. The first thing I would do is call the smith and give him the option of cleaning all that shit up. If he said no or said it would cost more, that's when I start naming names.

Some of us aren't messing around with our cash. I would want to know if someone is cutting corners before I drop serious (to me) coin on a custom rifle.

 

[kswaterfowl]

Unbelievable. A guy puts a post on here to help people out and make them aware. And he gets flamed for showing some class by not dragging someone's name through the mud.

 

[mallrat]

Did you tell the guilty party that you wanted the crown to be pretty? Did they charge you extra for a display quality chamber? Which photo shows the "before" target group?(the first group is missing two shots, BTW) Did you measure the amount of play at the muzzle when you loosened the barrel? For as much perfection as you expect from the smith, your rant falls short.

 

[chipsfan]

Nothing wrong with chambering between centers. It clearly works. Well done

 

[jerseymike]

Wtf is a display quality chamber? A chamber should be smooth all the way around. It's a "precision" bolt gun not an hk91. You must be used to paying for shit quality work. For 3500 bucks I expect a "pretty crown" and " display quality chamber". Yes, genius. It's missing two shots, because I shot a 3 shot group. Is a 5 shot group mandatory now? Why would I waste my time putting an indicator on the muzzle to measure the play? I screwed it off and it was loose. I don't give a f*ck if it's 5 thou or 10 thou play. It's loose. Your post falls short my friend.

 

[the once-ler]

I paid $200 for one of the top benchrest builders in the US to chamber and assemble my rifle, his work is plainly put, elegantly beautiful. Just because you pay $3k+ doesn't mean you are gonna get top notch work.

 

[AEROMechanic]

Unbelievable. A guy puts a post on here to help people out and make them aware. And he gets flamed for showing some class by not dragging someone's name through the mud.

This is what I don't get though. He say's he's trying to help us out but, without a "who done it", how exactly does this help? I mean you order a rifle from X-custom shop (the same one he used), and after receiving it find the same problems he had. Now your saddled with a sub-par rifle that you wouldn't have been had he mentioned who screwed his up in the first place... Thanks for the "help", I guess.

 

[AEROMechanic]

While it may be a disservice to not reveal the original builder/s of the rifle, I also do not want to take the food out of their kids mouths. Basically, all I'm saying is if you buy a custom gun in which you paid big bucks for (which I did, 3500k+) make sure you look it over with a fine tooth comb.

Right but, you already own it at that point.....

 

[mallrat]

You said you were happy with how it shot, now you're bitching about the small stuff. Was the chamber tearing up your brass? Was brass getting stuck in there? You didn't mention any such occurrences.

I guess if your definition of "shit quality work" is something that works great and looks good, requiring disassembly to find minor cosmetic flaws, then yes, I'll pay for that all day long.

 

[PKT1106]

Here is essentially what I am getting out of this:

"Hey guys, I got this $3500 rifle from a reputable smith and decided to take it apart to have a look. After I took it apart, I noticed a few things that looked rough and needed fixing, so I went ahead and did those things, that maybe the smith should have done, and cut my group sizes in half. Now, I am not gonna tell you who did the work, just be aware of these things and teach yourself to be a machinist so you can fix issues that should have never been there."

 

[rpk762]

Even if you are happy with something it does not mean the product is not flawed.

Looks to me shit was getting him half to three quarters. Now tight is getting him just over a quarter. Everyone can produce a bad product from time to time. Think lemon laws.

 

[MarinePMI]

Hmmm...must be the doldrums of the non-hunting season, just before the fall. A lot of folks getting bent out of shape for no apparent reason...relax folks, turn up the ac and pour yourselves a cold beverage. Chill...

JMHO...

 

[79jeepcj5]

Hmmm...must be the doldrums of the non-hunting season, just before the fall. A lot of folks getting bent out of shape for no apparent reason...relax folks, turn up the ac and pour yourselves a cold beverage. Chill...

JMHO...

Doesn't matter what you post, there's always gonna be a few whiny ones that want to stir up shit. I for one thought the post was very informative. And kudos to the OP on not naming the smith. I believe that's what's called character. Something that a lot of folks are lacking in this day and age.

Matt

 

[PKT1106]

Doesn't matter what you post, there's always gonna be a few whiny ones that want to stir up shit. I for one thought the post was very informative. And kudos to the OP on not naming the smith. I believe that's what's called character. Something that a lot of folks are lacking in this day and age.

Matt

It's "whiny" to point out the lack of fine quality on a $3500 rifle?

 

[alpine44]

Here is essentially what I am getting out of this:

"Hey guys, I got this $3500 rifle from a reputable smith and decided to take it apart to have a look. After I took it apart, I noticed a few things that looked rough and needed fixing, so I went ahead and did those things, that maybe the smith should have done, and cut my group sizes in half. Now, I am not gonna tell you who did the work, just be aware of these things and teach yourself to be a machinist so you can fix issues that should have never been there."

Exactly.

 

[alpine44]

Wtf is a display quality chamber? A chamber should be smooth all the way around. It's a "precision" bolt gun not an hk91. You must be used to paying for shit quality work. For 3500 bucks I expect a "pretty crown" and " display quality chamber". Yes, genius. It's missing two shots, because I shot a 3 shot group. Is a 5 shot group mandatory now? Why would I waste my time putting an indicator on the muzzle to measure the play? I screwed it off and it was loose. I don't give a f*ck if it's 5 thou or 10 thou play. It's loose. Your post falls short my friend.

Indeed, anyone who argues that the flaws displayed by the OP are "acceptable" is in fact encouraging vendors to cut more corners. The barrel shown by the OP belongs in the scrap bin and not on any customer's rifle be that high-end or run-of-the-mill. It is not the worst job we have seen here but it would fail the official QA/QC standards of Remington, Winchester, Savage, Mossberg, etc. We expect a custom rifle builder to operate above these standards, not below.

I am wagering the bet that even the person who built this rifle knew that his work was well below minimum industry standards and just hoped to get away with it.

 

[79jeepcj5]

It's "whiny" to point out the lack of fine quality on a $3500 rifle?

No. I believe the OP accomplished that in his original post. But to berate him for showing some class and not naming the smith is. If he did name him, everyone would be jumping his ass for it since he went ahead and fixed it himself without giving the smith an opportunity to make it right.

Matt

 

[jerseymike]

Well, I'm done going back and forth. Plain and simple I'm not going to mention any names. Just know that theirs lack of quality in this industry and it's best to educate yourself.

Fresh from the oven.

 

[bkw1911]

You said you were happy with how it shot, now you're bitching about the small stuff. Was the chamber tearing up your brass? Was brass getting stuck in there? You didn't mention any such occurrences.

I guess if your definition of "shit quality work" is something that works great and looks good, requiring disassembly to find minor cosmetic flaws, then yes, I'll pay for that all day long.

Hey dumbass, did you miss the part where the $3500 rifle wouldn't shoot better than 3/4" then after he made "cosmetic" changes it then shot 1/4" groups? Obviously there was some problems with the rifle besides looks. Most $3500 rifles have half moa guarantees. If you would pay for a $3500 rifle, it doesn't shoot the guarantee, and it doesn't look clean and youre happy with it, then youre an idiot.

 

[Redmanss]

It took me a single Google search clicking on the #1 result and I had the name of who built this rifle. If you want to know, seek. Kudos to the OP for not slamming the builder outright and turning this into a bash thread. Everyone else simply wants to be spoon fed or play into the drama that the Hide is slowly evolving towards.

IMO the bottom line lesson on this one is take nothing for granted, inspect upon delivery or own your own failure to do so like the OP is.

ETA, well, it was out there when this thread first appeared. Gone now and I'm not telling either if the OP isn't telling. His rifle, his wishes.

 

[PKT1106]

Well, I'm done going back and forth. Plain and simple I'm not going to mention any names. Just know that theirs lack of quality in this industry and it's best to educate yourself.

Did you at least let the build know what you found?

 

[Niles Coyote]

Fresh from the oven.

Very nice and enjoyed "your" post.

 

[71firebird400]

From the original post when the OP took delivery of the gun-

"Ive got the load for this gun now and had 5 rd groups in the .100s"

 

[AEROMechanic]

Hey dumbass, did you miss the part where the $3500 rifle wouldn't shoot better than 3/4"

1/2, not 3/4". Who's the dumbass? Oh and BTW, something doesnt add up per the quote from 71firebird400

From the original post when the OP took delivery of the gun-

"Ive got the load for this gun now and had 5 rd groups in the .100s"

 

[jerseymike]

From the original post when the OP took delivery of the gun-

"Ive got the load for this gun now and had 5 rd groups in the .100s"

I may have? I do not remember. I do know that it was not consistent. The moons may have aligned when I shot that. It was a 1/2 to 3/4 gun consistently.