So Stolen Valor is acceptable if you taken a bunch of courses from a dude....
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Rob Sheppard was given plenty of opportunity to self correct the record and cease falsely claiming that he was a Marine Scout Sniper. Instead, he doubles down with this shit. It's no surprise that ARFCom is coming to his defense, the fanboy is VERY strong over there and is also very much mod supported, that is obvious from the mod deleting posts by actual USMC Snipers who were stating the facts. He thought he could play it off to us by saying he went to one of the legit school houses, well we have the records going back several decades of all graduates from each legit schoolhouse, and he failed that test quickly. There's no need to produce certs in most cases, you're either in the book or you're not, it's that simple. Many slide under the wire for a while, but once they're brought into question we figure it out pretty quick.
You're either a graduate of one of the Scout Sniper 8541/0317 MOS producing school houses, Quantico, Lejeune (Stone Bay), Pendleton, or Hawaii (K-Bay), or you're not a fucking Scout Sniper. It's that simple. OJT, unit courses, buddy hookups in admin, what ever, those are not and have never been
For full disclosure, I graduated SSBC 3-95 at Lejeune, later graduated SSAC 1-01, served as TL with STA 2/2 95-96 and TL and Chief Scout with STA 3/6 98-01. I'm more than happy to provide references for anyone who questions my legitimacy, and can be further verified through the USMC Scout Sniper Association as member #1214 (I think that's my number, I'm not around my cert at the moment). On the Hide NOMAD knows me personally as we graduated school together and later were TLs together with 3/6.
Be honest in your claims, don't make yourself out to be anything you're not. Be proud of your accomplishments, but don't steal others' achievements and claim as your own. This guy fails in that.
You're either a graduate of one of the Scout Sniper 8541/0317 MOS producing school houses, Quantico, Lejeune (Stone Bay), Pendleton, or Hawaii (K-Bay), or you're not a fucking Scout Sniper. It's that simple. OJT, unit courses, buddy hookups in admin, what ever, those are not and have never been
For full disclosure, I graduated SSBC 3-95 at Lejeune, later graduated SSAC 1-01, served as TL with STA 2/2 95-96 and TL and Chief Scout with STA 3/6 98-01. I'm more than happy to provide references for anyone who questions my legitimacy, and can be further verified through the USMC Scout Sniper Association as member #1214 (I think that's my number, I'm not around my cert at the moment). On the Hide NOMAD knows me personally as we graduated school together and later were TLs together with 3/6.
Be honest in your claims, don't make yourself out to be anything you're not. Be proud of your accomplishments, but don't steal others' achievements and claim as your own. This guy fails in that.
Hello,
Doesn't that guy own snipers paradise and set up an entire training business based off being an 8541?
Edited: Redmannss explained how situation came to be.
Sincerely,
THEIS
Doesn't that guy own snipers paradise and set up an entire training business based off being an 8541?
Edited: Redmannss explained how situation came to be.
Sincerely,
THEIS
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I can't speak for the marines, but in the army, they have done things like run sniper schools at a post other than where the school is located. It was done at Ft. Lewis to train (test, rather, many had been operating in that role for some time already) several 1/25ID snipers prior to deployment in '04. The fact we had an SDM school and compound there helped, it's setup a lot like the sniper school was at Benning and was fully stocked (our target sheds were to be envied!). Pretty much anyone at the school that wasn't already an army sniper got to attend that school too (2 went? We were small). Had I been able to extend my ETS another month or two, I'd have been able to go also, despite getting out. Being a founding member of the army's SDM program will have to be enough, but they don't hand out a piece of paper or recognition for that.
All those guys that attended got their dash 4 on their MOS though, same as had they attended it at Benning.
Even in the army it's rare, very rare, they don't typically go around to bases and train snipers prior to deployment. Likely our commander knew someone (a lot of tasks we performed for him started out like that). Who knows. But it happened.
Funny, at the VA hospital I run into all sorts of people, lots of infantrymen for sure and the occasional badass, yeah, but it seems there's a FAR higher concentration of seal and delta force vets just hanging out at hipster bars and shit!
All those guys that attended got their dash 4 on their MOS though, same as had they attended it at Benning.
Even in the army it's rare, very rare, they don't typically go around to bases and train snipers prior to deployment. Likely our commander knew someone (a lot of tasks we performed for him started out like that). Who knows. But it happened.
Funny, at the VA hospital I run into all sorts of people, lots of infantrymen for sure and the occasional badass, yeah, but it seems there's a FAR higher concentration of seal and delta force vets just hanging out at hipster bars and shit!
There's many men who served in Scout Sniper and Recon Platoons that have double digit kills behind an M40A1/3/5, yet never graduated the school. They don't claim to be Scout Snipers. Same with trained Designated Marksmen, they don't claim it (well, some do but improperly as well).
The Marine Corps doesn't run MTTs for Sniper School. Prior to '97 or so, being granted OJT MOS 8541 was possible (albeit rare outside 7th Marines for a short period), but those still didn't qualify as being recognized 81Z trained Scout Snipers and are also not recognized by any of the school houses nor the sniper community if they went to another platoon. It was a paperwork loophole that was shut down by Quantico due to abuse. I know of one who was issued 8541 through those means, and he doesn't claim Scout Sniper or wear a Tooth because he knows it was a gray area loophole.
Right is right, wrong is wrong, and Semper Fidelis means something.
The Marine Corps doesn't run MTTs for Sniper School. Prior to '97 or so, being granted OJT MOS 8541 was possible (albeit rare outside 7th Marines for a short period), but those still didn't qualify as being recognized 81Z trained Scout Snipers and are also not recognized by any of the school houses nor the sniper community if they went to another platoon. It was a paperwork loophole that was shut down by Quantico due to abuse. I know of one who was issued 8541 through those means, and he doesn't claim Scout Sniper or wear a Tooth because he knows it was a gray area loophole.
Right is right, wrong is wrong, and Semper Fidelis means something.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Uh, sir, before I believe anything, I'ma need to see some half MOA groups at 1000.
I was with 3/6 in 95-96, Kilo Co, but as an 0331 in the heavy weapons plt, not by any means a SS. Loud and proud though!
Haha, even as high shooter out of school, I rarely pulled 5-for-5 on a B-Mod (20"x40" silhouette) at a grand while going for score, especially with the old 173gr Special Ball. Shit, I struggle to pull off a 5x5 grouping being 100% sub-moa with my GAP .260 at 100yds, I seem to always fuck up at least one shot that blows a beauty of a group. I'm not a member of the "all day long" crowd, I actually admit my faults.
I was Section Leader and Plt Sgt for CAAT 3/6 '01-'03 after I made SSgt. I have much respect for my heavy guns boys, much respect...
S/F
This is not a joke, the Scout Sniper Association and the groups aligned with it are very accomplished hunters. Once their target is in sight, the method to verify or debunks these claims happens very fast.
They (we) have access to all the schoolhouse God Books and we know all the gray areas. The guys who were there or in your unit are contacted and this is run up the flagpole very high. Once it's confirmed true or false, it doesn't take long for the hammer to fall.
Over the years I have been questioned a lot, the facts are pretty easy. It's actually a straightforward question and we have the resources to determine the answer
They (we) have access to all the schoolhouse God Books and we know all the gray areas. The guys who were there or in your unit are contacted and this is run up the flagpole very high. Once it's confirmed true or false, it doesn't take long for the hammer to fall.
Over the years I have been questioned a lot, the facts are pretty easy. It's actually a straightforward question and we have the resources to determine the answer
I was In STA 3/6 then. Weapons Co. You must have gone to CAX and then Oki with us. I started out in Lima Co., but knew a few bubba's from Kilo. Semper
He's spreading the same shit verbatim on M14Forum.
http://m14forum.com/showthread.php?t=398938
Apparently he's pleading his case because of posts on FB
http://m14forum.com/showthread.php?t=398938
Apparently he's pleading his case because of posts on FB
The guys defending him are crazy...
I find it weird that in the context of a precision rifle, people will defend this stuff. Yet the AR15 crowd, which is supposed to be the children in all this immediately run phonies out of town on a rail.
You get Precision Rifle Instructors with no real training or credibility ruling the roost, and yet, in the Carbine World, guys with the exact same background are hammered into dog shit faster than a bullet.
I find it weird that in the context of a precision rifle, people will defend this stuff. Yet the AR15 crowd, which is supposed to be the children in all this immediately run phonies out of town on a rail.
You get Precision Rifle Instructors with no real training or credibility ruling the roost, and yet, in the Carbine World, guys with the exact same background are hammered into dog shit faster than a bullet.
"It was a paperwork loophole that was shut down by Quantico due to abuse. I know of one who was issued 8541 through those means, and he doesn't claim Scout Sniper or wear a Tooth because he knows it was a gray area loophole."
One of my buddy's fell into this category at one time. He failed at 1MarDiv Division Schools twice (stalking) & never once has he claimed to be a SS or worn a Hog's Tooth. We keep in touch and we've been out since '96.
One of my buddy's fell into this category at one time. He failed at 1MarDiv Division Schools twice (stalking) & never once has he claimed to be a SS or worn a Hog's Tooth. We keep in touch and we've been out since '96.
Well, I saw Lowlight a couple years ago at a local gun shop..... that gives me cred right?
and I will say at 5'7" there are few who make me feel tall.....
and I will say at 5'7" there are few who make me feel tall.....
It is a small world.
I've had 2 instances on here where I had someone IM me that was in the Bundeswehr and went through Hammelburg during the time I rotated back from Kosovo to being an instructor that knew the names of other instructors as well as one knew the initials to my last name (its 2 words) completely out of the blue based on something I had said in a post. I left the Bundeswehr in 2002 so even 15 years later (first one was on the original Hide) people still remember.
I've had 2 instances on here where I had someone IM me that was in the Bundeswehr and went through Hammelburg during the time I rotated back from Kosovo to being an instructor that knew the names of other instructors as well as one knew the initials to my last name (its 2 words) completely out of the blue based on something I had said in a post. I left the Bundeswehr in 2002 so even 15 years later (first one was on the original Hide) people still remember.
Semper Fi brothers, small world, or not considering where we're meeting... CAX, the thrill of a massive live fire, miss the shit outta that stuff, garrison life, not so much. Especially with a few staff NCOs in charge I recollect having trouble at home and thinking canceling substantial weekend liberty for all us grunts was an ideal outlet for their deteriorating home live issues. Every have any interaction with a Lt. Power (yup, real name, plt. cmdr.) or a Capt. Chessani (Co. cmdr.)? If you look up the latter, got tied up in some unfortunate shit downstream of his command in the sandbox, seemed like a solid dude as far as I could tell.
Now, on topic, I know the SEALs are very watchdog too, which of course they should be, when I was browsing for gear advice and came upon a situation such as this and if I remember correctly SEAL "Sheppard" branches served as their group to reach out to verify one's credentials. Without asking too much background on this particular individual, what is it that Mr. Sheppard did in this instance to receive such attention? I get the stolen valor issue entirely and that's bullshit, but this sounds like a thing that's been going on for some time now? It appears to be a matter of a guy who doesn't have street cred. posing as someone who does, then resurfacing, and getting nailed for it, correct?
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If I want to learn to shoot, I want to learn from someone who can shoot and can teach. Where he learned how to shoot and where he learned how to teach are irrelevant to me so long as the info is solid and correct.
That in no way excuses anyone from lying or fibbing about their credentials. If they misrepresent that, what else could they be misrepresenting?
That in no way excuses anyone from lying or fibbing about their credentials. If they misrepresent that, what else could they be misrepresenting?
I assume Jack Coughlin falls into the used as a sniper but not a HOG category. I remember from his book he refers to himself as a Marine sniper but not a SS. He was obviously used as a sniper and effective with 60 or so confirmed and 2 bronze stars one with V. As far as I remember from the book several years ago even he didn't try to sell himself as a SS but as a Marine sniper.
I have shot with the past and current S.S.D.S on a rifle....when can I start instructing? Really, the falsifying his credentials when he knows damn well he was never an 8541 is the issue. Doesn't mean he's not and accomplished shooter and good instructor. Some folks are just never comfortable with who they are or their skill without embellishment.
I have shot with the past and current S.S.D.S on a rifle....when can I start instructing? Really, the falsifying his credentials when he knows damn well he was never an 8541 is the issue. Doesn't mean he's not and accomplished shooter and good instructor. Some folks are just never comfortable with who they are or their skill without embellishment.
In this case, it was questionable social media postings that came to the attention of a Scout Sniper, a look at the bio, and questioning if anyone knew him or his background. That's the common theme for those conducting training classes, as many of us attend those types of courses or work as instructors ourselves.
Many of us stay in contact with each other, and that bridges the generations as we have representatives spanning from Vietnam to the latest graduating courses. When someone comes to our attention, it's a fairly quick process for those who are legit to be vouched for since we're such a small network of members, and someone always knows you. It's when nobody rogers up as knowing someone in question that we dig deeper and go to the books, start asking questions about their background, etc. If someone is legit, they can quickly rattle off who they were with and when/where they went to school, easily confirmed with a check of the books. When those questions are answered vaguely or with bullshit gray area answers (as was the case here), that's always a red flag. Any claims of records being "classified" are instant declaration as poser, 100% guaranteed every fucking time that claim is made.
The more public the claims, the more likely they will be questioned. Often they slide under the wire for a while as all of us have better things to be doing with our lives, sometimes those claims just disappear once questioned and we leave well enough alone, but when they double down is when it really blows up to public outing. We've let more than a few go away quietly. Shit, even one here on the Hide got that treatment as he manned up, admitted his transgressions, erased all references and keeps his mouth shut since. He knows he's under observation, and is respectful of it since and we are in kind.
We get torqued when someone is making bullshit claims to falsely boost their personal ego or image, but what really pisses us off is when they do it to boost their professional standing. We worked hard as fuck to earn the title Scout Sniper, dedicated a good portion of our lives toward that endeavor including putting our lives at heavy risk to do the job, and when someone wants to steal that away to profit they are essentially stealing money out of the pockets of other legitimate Scout Snipers who are in the industry. When they get outed, that puts the legitimacy of all of us into question, further hurting those in the business and perpetuating the perception that "Everyone who served was a Sniper/Recon/SEAL/SF, and not a single one of them really were". Those of us who work on the government side and still sit behind a scope for a living, that's where the liars and frauds are literally putting others' lives in danger because they do not have the background or experience to make the proper decisions when and how they need to be made. It's not as simple as someone telling tall tales to impress the ladies or their friends, this shit has real consequences in the world and that's why we won't hesitate to call someone to the carpet when we see something suspicious.
308pirate, you're exactly correct, the false claims do not need to be made to get business or be legit as an instructor. There's a lot of instructors with no time as a sniper who are both great shooters and great teachers, and the Marine Corps and other branches has even spent millions to send active duty snipers to those instructors to get specialty training in making them better at putting lead in bad guys. Whenever someone decides to go that route and make false or inflated claims, I would definitely bring the rest of their curriculum into question and personally I would take my money elsewhere.
Many of us stay in contact with each other, and that bridges the generations as we have representatives spanning from Vietnam to the latest graduating courses. When someone comes to our attention, it's a fairly quick process for those who are legit to be vouched for since we're such a small network of members, and someone always knows you. It's when nobody rogers up as knowing someone in question that we dig deeper and go to the books, start asking questions about their background, etc. If someone is legit, they can quickly rattle off who they were with and when/where they went to school, easily confirmed with a check of the books. When those questions are answered vaguely or with bullshit gray area answers (as was the case here), that's always a red flag. Any claims of records being "classified" are instant declaration as poser, 100% guaranteed every fucking time that claim is made.
The more public the claims, the more likely they will be questioned. Often they slide under the wire for a while as all of us have better things to be doing with our lives, sometimes those claims just disappear once questioned and we leave well enough alone, but when they double down is when it really blows up to public outing. We've let more than a few go away quietly. Shit, even one here on the Hide got that treatment as he manned up, admitted his transgressions, erased all references and keeps his mouth shut since. He knows he's under observation, and is respectful of it since and we are in kind.
We get torqued when someone is making bullshit claims to falsely boost their personal ego or image, but what really pisses us off is when they do it to boost their professional standing. We worked hard as fuck to earn the title Scout Sniper, dedicated a good portion of our lives toward that endeavor including putting our lives at heavy risk to do the job, and when someone wants to steal that away to profit they are essentially stealing money out of the pockets of other legitimate Scout Snipers who are in the industry. When they get outed, that puts the legitimacy of all of us into question, further hurting those in the business and perpetuating the perception that "Everyone who served was a Sniper/Recon/SEAL/SF, and not a single one of them really were". Those of us who work on the government side and still sit behind a scope for a living, that's where the liars and frauds are literally putting others' lives in danger because they do not have the background or experience to make the proper decisions when and how they need to be made. It's not as simple as someone telling tall tales to impress the ladies or their friends, this shit has real consequences in the world and that's why we won't hesitate to call someone to the carpet when we see something suspicious.
308pirate, you're exactly correct, the false claims do not need to be made to get business or be legit as an instructor. There's a lot of instructors with no time as a sniper who are both great shooters and great teachers, and the Marine Corps and other branches has even spent millions to send active duty snipers to those instructors to get specialty training in making them better at putting lead in bad guys. Whenever someone decides to go that route and make false or inflated claims, I would definitely bring the rest of their curriculum into question and personally I would take my money elsewhere.
Website still lists SS under his credentials. Hell about the only thing not listed under who or what he has trained with is the cross wind course with Tubb in Lipscomb. He does list being NCOIC at Stone's Bay so he has been near a MCSS. I fish behind the Stone's Bay range in in the creek one over from the grenade range, surely I ought to have a Hogstooth!
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