So what brand chronograph is the hide favorite?

#51
Thanks for answering that Lowlight......I'm really intrigued by the Labradar too. I see one of these units in my hands in the near future. I like the Chrony Beta I have but seems like the damn wind is blowing everytime I need to use it and that makes it a total PITA.


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#52
Lowlight said:
@James n TN
Yes, it doesn't effect it, it's below... the brake is too the side, and if you look at the design it's meant to cut it away... it has no effect, brake, suppressor, plain barrel.

Good try though, the fact you haven't used one lends to your credibility when talking about the limitations.

Try putting your screens 10ft in front of your .50 cal brake and see what happens.

The best part, it never misses a number.
Click to expand...

You're correct I've never used one and probably won't ever just fact that I have an oehler 83 with down range accustics setup with the pressure strain gauges as well. I much prefer this over attaching something to my barrel to screw with the harmonics of load development.
as for shooting the 50 thru the chronograph I have and with no ill effects as the muzzle brake directs the blast away and back. But have you tested one of these units on a 50 with clam shell brake? Since we are talking personal use of course....

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#54
It was tested on a Barrett several times I wish I had the image but I am not sure if I snapped one...

But have used it on a barrett, I know the guys at Trigger Time use it on their 375s, and I consistently use it on my 338s...

It's my go too unit as well as other people's and trying to compare to crazy ass ballistic imaging system is just plain dishonest. Its a $350 unit designed of the average shooter.

How about asking how it compares to renting a day of Doppler in Yuma ...
 
#55
Lowlight said:
It was tested on a Barrett several times I wish I had the image but I am not sure if I snapped one...

But have used it on a barrett, I know the guys at Trigger Time use it on their 375s, and I consistently use it on my 338s...

It's my go too unit as well as other people's and trying to compare to crazy ass ballistic imaging system is just plain dishonest. Its a $350 unit designed of the average shooter.

How about asking how it compares to renting a day of Doppler in Yuma ...
Click to expand...

I was basically stating what I use as a chronograph not comparing a 350.00 unit to something that costs a couple grand and up.

Sent From My Droid RAZR Maxx HD using Tapatalk Pro
 
#56
I'm anxiously awaiting the Labradar arrival. I love my Magnetospeed I, but wish I could use it with pistols. By the way, the two rifles I've used my Magnetospeed with shifts their POI about 2-3" high at 100 yds. It still groups with it attached, but the groups are higher.
 
#57
@James n TN

Then why do you even care... clearly you are not in the market, and just want to try and poke holes in something you have no experience with...

The ease of use, the accuracy and the fact people are having great success with a MagnetoSpeed says a lot more than people trying to "prove" there is something wrong with it, meanwhile none of these guys can point to an issue, yet the end users are all chiming in on how good it works, compared to a traditional chrono...

It's the one unit i keep in my car, I use it every class, I use it for a lot of things, including shooting it while getting dope. I even used one before the K&M match with a rifle I never shot prior ...

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This this rifle I have zero impact shift and accuracy difference... and in this video i am shooting it to 800 yards.
 
#58
Okay, I think I get the drift. My logic tells me that something like a magneto speed hanging on a barrel MAY affect harmonics, perhaps not on my no taper 1.125" Shilen or at least not measurably.

But my question is this:

I have an Oehler 35P, PVM-21, CED M3, SuperChrono and the MagnetoSpeed, it's the go too unit without a doubt. (lowlight)
Click to expand...

Exactly why do you have every chronograph on the market?

I have used a 35P for 18 years. Replaced the printer mechanism a couple years ago but otherwise, have never felt the urge to buy something else. And, yes. I know it's a pain to set up, but I can access my range mid week when I don't have much worry about line breaks, etc.

So, are you saying I am missing out by being completely satisfied with my original purchase? What motivated you? BB
 
#59
@BuzzBoss915

Clearly I am not talking to you, this was an answer for the OP, and not people who are "Happy with their original purchase"... in my mind that is common sense, as I made no effort to seek you out.

The debate is for the guys who have no experience with the MagnetoSpeed and want to assume it is doing something negative.

My Oehler 35P broke early in it's life, and I was too lazy to send the unit in to be fixed. The others are because I like to have different experiences and used one or the other over the years in different places. Like my CED was bought when I worked at Rifles Only. It remained down there until I left. The PVM-21 was because I was hoping it was better and had more features, it did not work as well I thought it should. Some of the others were for ease.

I have a lot of things because of this site, it allows to speak on the subject in an effective way because I have it and use it.

I personally don't care what people who are happy with there current set up do... that was never part of the question or the answers.
 
#61
Clearly there is some interest in this topic. I am sorry it turned confrontational because there is potentially a lot of good information here that might benefit other members. I am happy to carry on an intelligent discussion of the merits and/or possible drawbacks to using the MagnetoSpeed during load development, but I have neither the time nor interest in trading further insults.

With that said, I can think of a few reasons why Frank, 918v, and others may not have seen either a shift in POI or a change in group size/shape when using the MagnetoSpeed. I've fired hundreds of rounds over mine and I have a pretty good idea of why it does certain things.

There are probably two things going on here. First is the shift in POI observed by some users, but not others. I and others have extensively tested the MagnetoSpeed to figure out the cause of the POI shift. Without going into detail, the most likely answer is that it's due to muzzle blast from the sensor deck. It looks like Frank was using a muzzle brake in the video he linked above. That could dramatically lessen the effect of muzzle blast from the sensor deck on POI when using the device. Likewise having a flash suppressor, can, or even different crowns could easily change how the MagnetoSpeed might influence POI between different rifles. Minimize the muzzle blast and I would anticipate you would minimize the shift in POI, possibly to the point that it is simply not detectable.

The second issue has to do with barrel harmonics. I in no way ever said or am saying now that the device MUST have the same effect on every rifle. What I said was that it has the POTENTIAL to affect barrel harmonics and therefore group dynamics. That was a true statement and in fact, I have a rifle where this is clearly the case. It is not because of poor load development; I have plenty of proof that this particular load is outstanding. Nor is it an issue with the rifle, it's a hammer just like every other GAP bolt gun I own. It's an issue of barrel harmonics.

I'm going to assume everyone can all agree that hanging a device the size and weight of the MagnetoSpeed off the end of a rifle barrel has the potential to change its harmonic behavior while firing. The key word here is "potential". There is far too much evidence with barrel tuners and similar devices clearly demonstrating a significant effect on shot group dynamics with even relatively minor incremental changes to think otherwise. Along the same line, even relatively minor changes in barrel length and/or contour can have a similar effect. If tuning devices and barrel length/contour can have a significant effect on group size and therefore impact load development, why would the MagnetoSpeed not be expected to have any effect? Possibly a better way to ask that question would be to ask why could one rifle apparently be unaffected by attaching the MagnetoSpeed while another showed dramatic changes? I think the answer is simply that each rifle has different barrel harmonics. I can easily envision how a particular rifle's barrel length, contour, and the specific caliber/load might make it less susceptible to the effect of attaching the MagnetoSpeed, to the extent that no detectable effects were observed. I have shot many rounds through several different .308 bolt guns with the MagnetoSpeed attached and never before observed a change in group size/shape. But that is not proof in any way that it won't have an effect on a different rifle/barrel/load.

So the real question is how can you know one way or another until you actually try it? The answer is that you can't know until you test it. Maybe you'll find it doesn't seem to change anything. If that's the case, I see no reason not to shoot it, do load development, or anything else you might want with the MagnetoSpeed attached. On the other hand, maybe you'll find like I have that in fact it does have an adverse effect on group size. In that case, I would rather not do load development with the unit attached. Unfortunately, it would take more than just a few groups with a particular rifle to firmly convince me one way or another. I'd rather be spending that time, $$$, and effort doing actual load development, not worrying about the possible effect of the MagnetoSpeed on my load development. So I make the assumption that it will affect grouping and do my tests without it. Everyone else is free to decide for themselves how they want to approach things. But one of the major benefits to having a forum like this is to learn and share information with other like-minded shooting enthusiasts. I'm not trying to tell anyone out there how they should or should not be doing load development. On the other hand, I'm not going to keep some observation or piece of potentially useful information to myself just because it might be unpopular.
 
Last edited:
#62
This is still Sniper's Hide and not BenchRest Central...

If you want to talk about microscopic changes that "Might" affect your load development I suggest you head in that direction. I am sure you'll find like minded folks who can talk about endless load development and who are never quite ready for prime time because they are still working on their perfect load.

For the rest of us who shoot, compete, and try not to point to the tiny things that Might give us an excuse not to shoot or experience things, well then... you might be in the right spot.
 
#63
I compete in F-Class Frank, not benchrest. You have a section devoted to F-Class here. Although you may not think very highly of that type of shooting here, load development is absolutely critical if you want to win. Precision matters when you're trying to hit a 5 inch circle repeatedly with a .308 at 1000 yd. Everything is important and even a point or two can make the difference between winning and not winning. It's not about finding excuses not to shoot, it's about finding the approach that gives you the highest competitive edge possible with the least effort so you can shoot as often as possible.
 
#66
Not to lighten the mood or anything, but I am sure people are intrigued to know if the LabRadar will work in a "public range" setting. My initial impression is that it is designed to be used where a single shooter is firing down range. For many people a public range is the only place where they can get trigger time. But yeah, 4 samples within 100 yards - count me in.

It's also entirely true though, the MagnetoSpeed is a GTG product in any environment.
 
#67
I have used many a chrono in my day under all types of conditions. The Magnetospeed is by far the best I have used to date. I can chrono in the dark or the rain if I need to and it can be thrown in my Rush 72 pack at a moments notice. Much better than hauling and setting up the 35P or even a lowly Pact. Skyscreens are dependent on, well, the sky. And that shit changes all the time in my neck of the woods.
 
#68
AIAW said:
Not to lighten the mood or anything, but I am sure people are intrigued to know if the LabRadar will work in a "public range" setting. My initial impression is that it is designed to be used where a single shooter is firing down range. For many people a public range is the only place where they can get trigger time. But yeah, 4 samples within 100 yards - count me in.

It's also entirely true though, the MagnetoSpeed is a GTG product in any environment.
Click to expand...

I asked the manufacture that exact question, as I shoot in those types of conditions sometimes.

Here is the response:

The LabRadar accuracy will not be affected by other shots being fired into your radar beam. Part of the technology built into the system allows it to determine if the shot came from very near the radar unit or if it came in from another location. Since the radar beam is only active for a fraction of a second it is nearly impossible for you to receive a velocity from another shooter nearby.
 
#70
Kosmos said:
Humm this lab radar thingy does look interesting...

Click to expand...



Yeah,
It looks great on paper. Can't wait to see the reviews once it is released. It was supposed to be released in Jan and its not out yet? Anyone know what the delay is?

I've read the back and forth here. Of the available chronigraphs, none are perfect. They each have their own pros and cons. For the OP, i went with the magneto speed because of ease of setup. I shot at 2 ranges, one indoors and the other outdoors. Can't go out and set up the traditional chrony on the indoor range. A the outdoor range, they allow x amount of time to change targets. I asked them about using a chrony and they said sure, but wouldn't hold up the line for me. So, i felt I may not be able to set it up in the allotted time. Some say that you have a POI change woth magneto spoed. I haven't seen it. Magnetospeeds website says it may affect POI, but may not. With magnetospeed, your not dealing with the light sensors as on the traditional chronys. Now fir the bad. You can't attach it to a semi auto pistol, but can on a revolver. They say they are working on a solution, but I haven't seen anything come to fruition.

So evaluate your needs and get a chrony that works for your situation. I may end up getting the lab radar at some point if its good as the company says, but I'll wait until it has been out awhile.


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#72
Kirkd said:
Yeah,
It looks great on paper. Can't wait to see the reviews once it is released. It was supposed to be released in Jan and its not out yet? Anyone know what the delay is?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

They released the product at shot show in January, will be available for purchase in May.

Product looks great, can't wait to compare it to my other products.
 
#75
Lowlight said:
Gotta love how the guys high five vaporware and put down something they have never touched... there is a pattern in that if you look.
Click to expand...

Hehe, I agree. I almost expect the ShamWow guy to pop out at the end of that particular video. Time will tell!

Honestly, the MagnetoSpeed works so well that I don't see much reason to even shop around. It would continue to be my primary source for velocity measurement, but I am the "bleeding edge" type as well to a degree. I've had no problems with the velocities that the MagnetoSpeed has spit out for me and it has always been very tight with light-based chronos. My main interest in this product is the WiFi/software capabilities they briefly discuss. Sure, flat text files suffice, but if their software is even somewhat intuitive AND the unit provides accurate measurements then I'll be sold.

I've got plenty of very low ES/SD loads to compare it with : )
 
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#77
I guess I need to throw my two cents in regarding the Magneto Speed. For what works for me I do my load development without one. Find the load and I want and then get my MV with the magneto speed. A 5 to 10 round test has done the trick for me more times that I would like to admit. I have taken a few classes and the first thing that is done is get mv from a magneto speed. Its just another tool in my toolbox that I use. I really don't see the need for those that have not tried it to knock it. All chronographs have there good and bad sides. That labradar thing just looks smoke and mirrors to me but what the hell do I know.
 
#78
I still dont know why people give 2 shits on if the magnetospeed produces change in POI or whatever like they ALWAYS shoot with it on the gun or something like that. I would love to see a guy run from stage to stage in a competition with the unit strapped to the barrel "BUT I DID LOAD DEVELOPMENT WITH IT ON SO I HAVE TO ALWAYS HAVE IT ON THERE".

Do load workup, shoot over chrono to get some speed numbers for whatever purpose you want them for, put chrono away.

What am I missing in this?
 
#80
For real. What happens on the target determines load development success, not what velocity readings you get. (Maybe my load development is shit also)

I shoot with a muzzle brake, my POI is about a minute higher with the magnetospeed on, but the effect is very consistent/predictable. My experience is that an accurate load with magneto attached = accurate load with magneto off. Group size is unaffected. BTW, It's a great piece of kit. It almost never has error readings, is portable, quick to setup and it even works when a cloud rolls by at a funny angle. I will probably never use a photo sensor type chrono again.
 
#81
rjacobs said:
I still dont know why people give 2 shits on if the magnetospeed produces change in POI or whatever like they ALWAYS shoot with it on the gun or something like that. I would love to see a guy run from stage to stage in a competition with the unit strapped to the barrel "BUT I DID LOAD DEVELOPMENT WITH IT ON SO I HAVE TO ALWAYS HAVE IT ON THERE".

Do load workup, shoot over chrono to get some speed numbers for whatever purpose you want them for, put chrono away.

What am I missing in this?
Click to expand...

You aren't missing anything. I'm in the process of doing load development with a magnetospeed and working up a quicker method of load development. I'm sure it will get the purists and nay sayers up in arms but for anyone with an open mind it will save you time, money, and components and the results should be more than adequate for tactical matches.

It probably won't live up to bench rest or f class standards but I'm not really writing it with them as the target audience either.
 
#82
I understand a weight can affect barrel harmonics.

I also understand that a load that is tuned to be stable (read the OCW method) will be less susceptable to outside influence (such as the Magnetospeed strapped to the barrel).

Theoretically, a load that is accurate, but not completely stable could show variance with the Magnetospeed attached.

I also agree that the Magnetospeed is used to measure velocity. If you're worried about it, just work up a load 1st, then measure the speed. Done.
 
#83
I have nothing against the MagnetoSpeed. I've never used one. It seems like a good unit.

I currently have a ProChrono Plus from the mid to late 90's. If I had to replace it I'd buy the ProChrono Digital and maybe add the USB interface. Just my 2 cents, it has worked for me.
 
#84
I might as well throw in my two cents. It has been my experience with both my rifles, one a Savage F\TR and the other a GAP Hospitaller that the group size did not change but the POI sure did while using the MagnitoSpeed. The loads are different but very stable out to 1K yards. On the target below while doing load development for the GAP you can see the POI on all targets are low right with the exception on one, the 20k target that is high and right of center was the only target shot with the bayonet strapped on? This was a heavy palma tube. Your Milage may very!!


Diego
 
#85
I really don't see the need for those that have not tried it to knock it. All chronographs have there good and bad sides. That lab radar thing just looks smoke and mirrors to me but what the hell do I know.
Click to expand...

Do you realize what you wrote? BB
 
#88
Kirkd said:
Any release info on the Labradar?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Vp H cmhbffc
Click to expand...

Got this yesterday, so they're already 2 months behind schedule?

Miles,



Sorry we have not connected.



We will have a limited first production run in Mid June, followed by full production.



We will keep you updated on when LabRadar is available for purchase.







Best regards,



Richard

LabRadar

LabRadar - My Personal Radar

[email protected]
 
#89
milo 2.0 said:
Got this yesterday, so they're already 2 months behind schedule?

Miles,



Sorry we have not connected.



We will have a limited first production run in Mid June, followed by full production.



We will keep you updated on when LabRadar is available for purchase.







Best regards,



Richard

LabRadar

LabRadar - My Personal Radar

[email protected]
Click to expand...

Another delay? I wonder what's up? Thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if they have gotten a unit to an independent person for a review? If, so, where can I get see that review?

I have a magnetospeed and love the unit, but I need something that I can attach to a pistol too. I just hope that the Labradar lives up to the companies hype.


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#90
Kirkd said:
Another delay? I wonder what's up? Thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if they have gotten a unit to an independent person for a review? If, so, where can I get see that review?

I have a magnetospeed and love the unit, but I need something that I can attach to a pistol too. I just hope that the Labradar lives up to the companies hype. If so, this unit will be a game changer


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Click to expand...




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#91
James n TN said:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree, anything you attach to the barrel of a rifle has some effect regardless of how minimum or how extreme there is an impact effect down range. That's why there are things called tuners we attach to our barrels to squeeze that last .01 of accuracy out of our loads.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with James n TN. No Matter who's telling you that it dosen't effect your gun, is wrong. Anything that is attached to your barrel, will and does effect the harmonics of the barrel, NO IF's, AND's, OR BUT"S it does and will effect your gun period!!! The only time that it will effect your gun the least amount, is, if you have a Heavy Barrel, Bull Barrel.
 
#92
I haven't seen anything else out there better than the magnetospeed yet. It slightly changes poi for me but not group size. Since the poi is unimportant for load development it has no impact on your load development.
 
#93
So what brand chronograph is the hide favorite?

teskymo said:
I have to agree with James n TN. No Matter who's telling you that it dosen't effect your gun, is wrong. Anything that is attached to your barrel, will and does effect the harmonics of the barrel, NO IF's, AND's, OR BUT"S it does and will effect your gun period!!! The only time that it will effect your gun the least amount, is, if you have a Heavy Barrel, Bull Barrel.
Click to expand...


I'n sorry, but it doesn't affect mine. I double checked it this past weekend. Fired 10 rounds without it and 10 without it. That's been my experience. Has your claim been your experience or just a theory? Just curious.

Now magentospeed says in their website that you may or may not have an impact shift. I haven't.


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Last edited:
#96
I really don't see a valid argument for these "change in POI" complaints... you simply figure out your accuracy nodes then chrony them. I look for groupings rather than points of impact, scopes have those clicky things on the top and the side for a reason.
 
#97
Kirkd said:
I'n sorry, but it doesn't affect mine. I double checked it this past weekend. Fired 10 rounds without it and 10 without it. That's been my experience. Has your claim been your experience or just a theory? Just curious.

Now magentospeed says in their website that you may or may not have an impact shift. I haven't.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Vp H cmhbffc
Click to expand...

Well, aren't you the lucky one? If Magnetospeed could get away with saying it doesn't affect POA, they would. But they acknowledge that it can, and will....but occasionally, it doesn't. Thereby covering their ass and all the bases.

James inTN is obviously right. Anything hanging on your barrel will affect your results. Period. Sure there are solutions. Like, do load development without it and THEN satisfy your curiosity about your velocities and ES.

spry, use it in good health, and also use those clicky things the other guy mentions. BB
 
#98
BuzzBoss915 said:
Well, aren't you the lucky one? If Magnetospeed could get away with saying it doesn't affect POA, they would. But they acknowledge that it can, and will....but occasionally, it doesn't. Thereby covering their ass and all the bases.

James inTN is obviously right. Anything hanging on your barrel will affect your results. Period. Sure there are solutions. Like, do load development without it and THEN satisfy your curiosity about your velocities and ES.

spry, use it in good health, and also use those clicky things the other guy mentions. BB
Click to expand...

No need to be crappy. Do you actually have a magnetospeed? Or is this your theory. As I said, I personally don't have a POI change. I know a guy who does get a POI shift and he tells me that it doesn't effect his group size.

I think that the Labradar, when ever it comes out, will be hands down the best type of chrono to be developed. That is if it is actually as good as they claim it to be. I have reservations on how it would work when your at a range with people shooting on either side of you. I'l probably wait for some time after it is released to see the reviews and if there are any limitations. The biggest negative about the Magnetospeed is that it does no work with semiautomatic pistols. And that some people get a POI shift, which may or may not be a negative to some people.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#99
I have a F1 and magnetospeed. Yes the magnetospeed affects my groupings by a lot! It's perfect if you just want to get velocity. Terrible for testing loads! Especially doing an OCW test. The Labradar will be the best for sure!
 
#100
No experience with magnetospeed, whatsoever. I am just speaking of hanging ANYTHING on the barrel, including a wet sock. Maybe it will move POA and maybe it won't? I own a 35P which is admittedly, a bit of a pain to set up but that's the only negative. BB
 
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