Solution for "Cold weld" bullet and case neck bonding?

[mheimer_45]

I’ve got about 200 rounds of 6.5 creed ammo I loaded 4 years ago with .002 neck tension. Brass was tumbled in corn cob with fritz polish with chunks of dryer sheet in the tumbler. No lube or graphite on bullets. Bullets had .002” neck tension. Bullets slid in with ease. Took some of that ammo out this summer and my .75 moa load was shooting about 2.5”. Took rest of case home to pull bullets and destroyed the jacket on 3 rounds before I tried to set them deeper first. Took two hands on the rockchucker and 1/3 of my weight to break bullets free. Ammo was stored in climate controlled house. I’ve seen it. I now use graphite on everything.

 

[LeadZeke]

Not sure how the hell to read that grid. Gives different answers based on selecting X or Y axis first as pointed out. Any clarification on that?

 

[Alpine 338]

Not sure how the hell to read that grid. Gives different answers based on selecting X or Y axis first as pointed out. Any clarification on that?

Again, the difference is if the material is an anode or cathode, Or in simple terms, the direction current flows from one material to the other.

 

[Alpine 338]

I’m thinking the problem is a combination of Galling and Passivation. Galling in simple terms can be described as a friction weld, and Passivation is when oxides form a natural layer to prevent corrosion. Occurrence is exacerbated the tighter the neck tension, and passivation increases galling. Copper and brass (in our case both being alloys as bullets generally are not 100% copper) are typically used in gliding or bearing (sliding) applications in combinations with other metals such as stainless steel. However, copper and brass both being softer materials, can have a tendency to gall.

 

[j-dubya]

I moved on to Imperial graphite.

Interesting. Graphiting is what I had been doing back when I pinged you on the wax method. I was hoping it might be better solution for higher volume processing, especially for my stainless tumbled brass that had the necks completely stripped down to bare brass.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I’ve got about 200 rounds of 6.5 creed ammo I loaded 4 years ago with .002 neck tension. Brass was tumbled in corn cob with fritz polish with chunks of dryer sheet in the tumbler. No lube or graphite on bullets. Bullets had .002” neck tension. Bullets slid in with ease. Took some of that ammo out this summer and my .75 moa load was shooting about 2.5”. Took rest of case home to pull bullets and destroyed the jacket on 3 rounds before I tried to set them deeper first. Took two hands on the rockchucker and 1/3 of my weight to break bullets free. Ammo was stored in climate controlled house. I’ve seen it. I now use graphite on everything.

I have to ask, why would you have 4 yr old LR precision ammo to begin with? Was your accuracy test fair? Was the bore in the same condition as it was 4 yrs ago? Was it in the same cleaning cycle, did the barrel have more wear on it? Even if you hadn't shot the rifle in 4 yrs, did you clean it before you put it away, or let the carbon in the barrel become rock hard?
I honestly hope this is not an isolated incident you are claiming to be fact.

 

[918v]

Interesting. Graphiting is what I had been doing back when I pinged you on the wax method. I was hoping it might be better solution for higher volume processing, especially for my stainless tumbled brass that had the necks completely stripped down to bare brass.

I was hoping the wax method would work because it would have eliminated one step in case prep. But graphite works better. The wax bath just doesn’t deposit enough wax in the neck in my opinion.

 

[mheimer_45]

I have to ask, why would you have 4 yr old LR precision ammo to begin with? Was your accuracy test fair? Was the bore in the same condition as it was 4 yrs ago? Was it in the same cleaning cycle, did the barrel have more wear on it? Even if you hadn't shot the rifle in 4 yrs, did you clean it before you put it away, or let the carbon in the barrel become rock hard?
I honestly hope this is not an isolated incident you are claiming to be fact.

I did an ocw and seating depth test. Rifle shot honestly shot .8-.75 moa. And I always run a wet patch or two after a range day. Anyway why would the rifle cause the bullets to stick in the case?

I know in my experience I had to stand up and use both hands on the press before the bullets would move.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I did an ocw and seating depth test. Rifle shot honestly shot .8-.75 moa. And I always run a wet patch or two after a range day. Anyway why would the rifle cause the bullets to stick in the case?

I know in my experience I had to stand up and use both hands on the press before the bullets would move.

I just asked if the accuracy test was a fair comparison, that is all.
Never did I allude to a rifle causing bullets to stick in the necks. Nor did I question whether the bullets were tough to pull. I have had rds just loaded that made a range trip and then needed the bullets pulled and were tougher to pull than they should have been.

 

[LR51]

Graphite

 

[101AirborneE8]

I've experienced what can only be explained as "cold welding" of the case necks. They were .223's loaded as a prototype batch of 20 rounds for Hi-Power competition. They got put aside, and I didn't shot them for about 12 years. The cases had only been reloaded once. When I fired the first half-box, I noticed split necks on almost all of the cases. I reviewed my data, and they were Service Rifle Loads, but nowhere near the top of the charts. I tried them in a different rifle later. This time, I had not only split necks, but the necks actually separated from the case in about 3 of 10 rounds. My best explanation would be that the "cold welding" not only bonded to the bullet, but that the process may have also weakened the brass alloy of the case necks. I had been meticulous about cleaning the necks (which may have been part of the problem) and individually weighing each powder charge. Now if I have rifle brass that I do not intend to shoot shortly after loading, I am applying a light coat of acrylic floor finish to the inside of the neck, and allowing it to cure for at least a month, prior to loading, in order to give a thin layer between the case and the bullet jacket. I have seen the posts about using graphite and other dry lubes, but I wonder if that may not affect neck tension.

 

[Paqueo]

I've experienced what can only be explained as "cold welding" of the case necks. They were .223's loaded as a prototype batch of 20 rounds for Hi-Power competition. They got put aside, and I didn't shot them for about 12 years. The cases had only been reloaded once. When I fired the first half-box, I noticed split necks on almost all of the cases. I reviewed my data, and they were Service Rifle Loads, but nowhere near the top of the charts. I tried them in a different rifle later. This time, I had not only split necks, but the necks actually separated from the case in about 3 of 10 rounds. My best explanation would be that the "cold welding" not only bonded to the bullet, but that the process may have also weakened the brass alloy of the case necks. I had been meticulous about cleaning the necks (which may have been part of the problem) and individually weighing each powder charge. Now if I have rifle brass that I do not intend to shoot shortly after loading, I am applying a light coat of acrylic floor finish to the inside of the neck, and allowing it to cure for at least a month, prior to loading, in order to give a thin layer between the case and the bullet jacket. I have seen the posts about using graphite and other dry lubes, but I wonder if that may not affect neck tension.

Thanks! Might be a nice solution. Im still using Lee Alox bullet lube. Loaded some and set aside to test after 6 or 12 months. Cheers

 

[Huskydriver]

I've experienced what can only be explained as "cold welding" of the case necks. They were .223's loaded as a prototype batch of 20 rounds for Hi-Power competition. They got put aside, and I didn't shot them for about 12 years. The cases had only been reloaded once. When I fired the first half-box, I noticed split necks on almost all of the cases. I reviewed my data, and they were Service Rifle Loads, but nowhere near the top of the charts. I tried them in a different rifle later. This time, I had not only split necks, but the necks actually separated from the case in about 3 of 10 rounds. My best explanation would be that the "cold welding" not only bonded to the bullet, but that the process may have also weakened the brass alloy of the case necks. I had been meticulous about cleaning the necks (which may have been part of the problem) and individually weighing each powder charge. Now if I have rifle brass that I do not intend to shoot shortly after loading, I am applying a light coat of acrylic floor finish to the inside of the neck, and allowing it to cure for at least a month, prior to loading, in order to give a thin layer between the case and the bullet jacket. I have seen the posts about using graphite and other dry lubes, but I wonder if that may not affect neck tension.

Orrrrrr you could seat your bullets long while they are in storage then seat then deeper to their final seating depth like a ton of competitors do and skip the nail polish

 

[101AirborneE8]

Orrrrrr you could seat your bullets long while they are in storage then seat then deeper to their final seating depth like a ton of competitors do and skip the nail polish

I do not disagree. In fact, it is my plan to bump any more that I find by a couple of thousandths. However, If there is any weakening or migration to the case necks from the microcurrent (which I will admit may be theoretical), it would not address that.

Additionally, my military experience has taught me to always keep "a few" rounds handy. I would rather not have to figure on taking the time to take them to the press to bump them, prior to use.

 

[101AirborneE8]

….and actually, the weakening of the metals from the microcurrent is not really "theoretical". I was a Private Pilot and an Ultralight Flight Instructor. We were required to only use Aircraft Grade Stainless Steel Rivets anywhere on the Airframe. The reason was that the "microcurrent" resulted in "dissimilar metal corrosion", when you have 2 metals touching that do not have the exact same electron charge properties. They found that (over a long period of time - years) the aluminum of the aircraft corroded and weakened where standard rivets were used. Now, I realize that Stainless Steel and Aluminum do not have the same Atomic Properties, but there was something that made them resistant to "dissimilar metal corrosion" (aside from costing 5x as much as regular rivets).

 

[Vettepilot]

….and actually, the weakening of the metals from the microcurrent is not really "theoretical". I was a Private Pilot and an Ultralight Flight Instructor. We were required to only use Aircraft Grade Stainless Steel Rivets anywhere on the Airframe. The reason was that the "microcurrent" resulted in "dissimilar metal corrosion", when you have 2 metals touching that do not have the exact same electron charge properties. They found that (over a long period of time - years) the aluminum of the aircraft corroded and weakened where standard rivets were used. Now, I realize that Stainless Steel and Aluminum do not have the same Atomic Properties, but there was something that made them resistant to "dissimilar metal corrosion" (aside from costing 5x as much as regular rivets).

I realize that this was posted last year, but if you're still around...

Would you mind PM'ing me with more info on this?? I too am a Private/Commercial pilot, an Ultralight Instructor, have worked extensively as an A&P apprentice, and have built several of the Van's RV series and Harmon Rocket experimental aircraft, as well as numerous ultralights. I have never heard this about stainless steel rivets and would like to know more. How would you buck a stainless through aluminum rivet?? And what is dis-similar materials with an aluminum rivet riveting aluminum together? I hope you get this and can contact me. I'm very curious about this... (I've not worked in the field for about 10 years.)
Thanks!
Vettepilot

 

[supercorndogs]

Galvanic corrosion will stick aluminum wheels to the steel cone that centers the wheel also. I will see if I can find the case. I have some 280 brass, that was advertised as new, but it some of it was pull down. One of the cases has copper from the jacket still bonded to the inside of the neck.

I have had bullets bond to the neck and I tumble in corn cob and leave carbon in the neck. I don't think that is a solution.

 

[bfoosh006]

FWIW... http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...eaning-case-neck-friction-and-bullet-seating/

And I still have a 300gr .44Mag bullet seated in brand new Hornady nickel plated brass, ( dummy round for OAL ) that locked so tight to the case... that any attempt to Impact hammer it out ( ( and I beat the hellout of it ) ... just makes the lead core come out more... the bullet jacket will not budge.

 

[Deleted member 173458]

After reading all this my head hurts. I love the way my brass looks after tumbling with ss pins but Im going back to dry tumbling. Why take a chance? I will say that I have shot rounds that have been wet tumbled, loaded and stored for over a year with no obvious impact changes or changes in velocity or sd. With the current environment I think it would be wise to have a few loaded on hand so Ill dry tumble fired brass and graphite new brass. I appreciate the info gathered here!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 173458]

Does anyone know if Hornady one shot would prevent cold weld?